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5:00 PM
like people writing:
main = ...
FUCK YOU
 
Ell
time for my first codementor session hopefully
 
user457812
I SEE SWEAR WORDS I WANT IN ON THIS
 
it's not codegolf motherfuckers
 
@Jefffrey Whats wrong with main?
idgi
 
@TonyTheLion should be:
 
user457812
5:01 PM
One should only code-golf their one-off utilities so that other people become dependent upon your shit code.
 
main :: IO ()
main = ...
not:
main = ...
 
oh
the first line does what exactly?
 
it's more about the principle of documenting code properly
 
@caps Ooops, sorry. I shouldn't have said they fuck around for ages for naught.
 
Ell
@Jefffrey every line?
 
5:02 PM
my Haskell is blurry
 
Ell
@TonyTheLion declares the signature of main
 
than the fact that we all know that main is :: IO ()
 
@Jefffrey Some IDEs can generate the signatures automatically.
 
@TonyTheLion function signature
 
Also, who does not know the signature of main? :)
 
5:02 PM
look here:
0
Q: Swap the characters, Haskell

pertpoertIf str = "abcdpqrs", then we have to swap the characters at position {(0, 1), (2, 3), (4, 5), (6, 7)} as L = 8. So the answer will be "badcqpsr". My algorithm work with problems: Input is: 2 abcdpqrs az My output is: "2" "badcqpsr" "za" First input line is a number of test cases to follo...

not even 1 function signature was given
 
That's good!
Don't write those, let them be infered ;d
 
1 min ago, by Jefffrey
it's more about the principle of documenting code properly
@Griwes no
i hate you
go away
 
Even I know the signature of main.
Literally everyone knows the signature of main.
You don't need to document it any further.
 
Pizza with ketchup
 
you guys are killing me
 
5:04 PM
(Btw., "literally" can now also mean "figuratively", so there's literally no word for "literally" anymore.)
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I was concerned about what had not yet been said.
@Jefffrey I keep reading this as "function signatures in haskell never make me so fucking furious"
And it makes me chuckle.
Because that's obviously not what you meant.
 
@caps It's been more than four years since the DVDs came out, anyway.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yeah... I guess so...
 
I'll let you enjoy the pain of chugging through the last three seasons spoiler-free, though.
 
5:11 PM
It's well know that you have 1 year to catch up with a tv serie before spoilers stop being spoilers.
 
Btw, Joffrey dies at the wedding.
 
Amen.
I hated that kid.
 
Ell
@Jefffrey in seriousness, why do you need to know the signature of main?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes The red one?
 
No, his own.
 
5:12 PM
@Ell It's the principle of documenting every top-level function.
@caps He gets poisoned.
Function signature is so important for readability. It can even help before writing the function itself, to get your thoughts straight.
For complicated functions (>= 2 arguments), sometimes I even document local functions
 
Ell
but you don't call main yourself surely?
 
@Ell main = doSumthin >> main
 
@Jefffrey It's documented already, since everyone knows it's main :: IO ()!
 
(aka main = forever doSumthing)
 
forever undocumented
 
5:17 PM
I'm beginning to think that we have different meanings for "principle".
 
Function signatures are sexy. Functions without signatures are cock-blockers.
Top level functions without signature are literally hitler.
 
lol
lol.
 
Imagine functions without signatures as auto everywhere
or as char***
 
segfault in FD_SET wtf
 
5:21 PM
Office is like a ghost town. Makes me wonder why I bothered to wake up at my usual time.
 
> Now that all 3 Hobbit movies have been released, will someone cut them down to the single 3 hour movie it should have been all along?
eh
 
@Nican lol - are you sure that you are supposed to turn in today?
 
@MartinJames Yes. My calendar is full of "Out of Office" reminders.
 
@Nican lol - post one and go shopping/bar, like all the other developers. It's obviously a 'work from home' day:)
 
@Nican I got a mate who took too many days off and couldn't take an extra holiday now
 
5:26 PM
@MartinJames Haha, I will probably just leave from work early and enjoy the day.
 
only has xmas and new year's free
I don't envy him
 
@AlexM. Like the bosses are in to check!
 
You guys can do "work from home" days?
 
Hack the access-control system, (or log in and climb out of window).
 
@MartinJames it's kinda hard to not work and not be noticed because of it, at least in my case
all it takes is someone sending an email, me not responding, someone else trying to ping me on skype, everyone going like "where the fuck are you"
 
5:28 PM
What is it like to have a job as a programmer?
 
Terrible
 
@Jefffrey You get money for programming.
 
@Jefffrey Refer to the 'hell' thread earlier.
 
on a daily basis though, it's true that nobody checks on you
 
I work from home something like 95% of the days.
 
5:29 PM
@Jefffrey Terrible. Boss is constantly telling me "Rhythm of Business" and "Product Value"
 
like, you can go home earlier and nobody minds, you're not recorded or anything
 
@TomáÅ¡Zato you do realize you just replied to a comment thread from 2011 that didn't include you at the time? — sehe 13 secs ago
 
I like to be fair though, and stay longer the next day
 
@Jefffrey Programming is easy. Actually getting working stuff delivered to customers and getting paid for it is hard:)
 
As for what it is like, it is great and offers lots of flexibility.
But it can be hard to focus sometimes.
Especially when your entire family is also at home.
 
5:30 PM
@Jefffrey depends
 
making software that works is hard
 
working with people is hard
 
@Jefffrey It depends (heavily) on your frame of reference. Most programmers think their jobs (at least kind of) suck. Having held a few other kinds of jobs, I'd say it's better than any of the alternatives I've done.
 
and soul-destroying
 
5:30 PM
@JerryCoffin See, I like my job, a lot, even when I'm frustrated at one or more of my co-workers.
 
ok, let's focus on the perks guys
 
user1804599
Awesome.
 
it takes a single random guy giving you shit code to work with because they don't care
to ruin your (my) day
 
I really don't need "I'd rather cut my dick off" kind of moral boost right now.
 
Also, I like C++ a lot. And even JavaScript. (And Python).
So maybe I just tend to have a more positive view of things.
 
5:31 PM
Just the biggest pro. What is it?
 
@Jefffrey you need the "stick a spike in your ass" kind of moral boost?
 
@TonyTheLion If that's the biggest pro, I think I'll drop university now. :P
 
@TonyTheLion My problem is that I have to make software that ~has value~, but neither I, my boss, or anyone in the planet actually knows what they want made.
 
@Jefffrey no one gives a fuck about what you do each day, as long as you get your work done
 
Ell
I'd rather stick a spike in my ass than cut my dick off
 
5:32 PM
@Nican Yes, getting a decent spec is hard
 
lol decent specs
 
also, you can get paid quite well if you know what you're doing
which, if you're in the Lounge for any length of time, there is some chance that you will
 
I'm not content with the C++ education in the Computer Science department in my university.
Students come out liking Java and C more.
 
Welcome to the club.
 
@Jefffrey You get to get paid for writing software.
So if you like writing software... it can be a pretty good job.
 
5:36 PM
@TonyTheLion I've definitely learned more in 2 years in this room, than 4 years of uni.
 
There is one C++ course. First, they teach you C. THEN, they teach you C++. What's the point? If you're going to poison them with C, don't even bother teaching them C++, because there's no way in hell they're going to be good C++ programmers without unlearning a lot of the things they learned from C.
 
@Jefffrey I see two obvious pros, and it's hard to decide which is bigger. One is that you generally get to work with really smart people, so you're (more or less) constantly challenged to think hard and do things really well. The other is that you can pretty much count on producing at least a few things that really do make the world at least a little better place, even if all you're doing is reducing the time some poor schmuck spends on mind-numbingly stupid paperwork.
 
@JerryCoffin Oh yeah, I like those parts too.
 
And this professor, oh god
He tells you "C++ is just Java with <insert features>"
I'm supposed to take the C++ course with him next Fall :v
 
@MohammadAliBaydoun The simple answer to "why" is: "because most of the staff don't know C++ well enough to teach it properly anyway."
 
Ell
5:40 PM
@Jefffrey legit?
 
Yeah
Programming related, definitely.
 
@JerryCoffin Quit everything and come teach C++ in my university pl0x ;~;
 
@MohammadAliBaydoun I somehow doubt that most universities would accept the idea of me (with no degree in anything) teaching there.
 
I envy you guys
degree-free
 
@JerryCoffin I like your hat
 
5:43 PM
Why?
 
Because they are smart enough not to need it. So they don't have to spend 4-5 years of their life on learning either too much in too short time (and therefore forgetting everything) or learning bad programming practices.
 
I don't have a degree and only recently realized how that means I'm stuck.
 
Degree is about putting shit on CV
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Stuck what?
When you get your first job and you don't get fired the first year, you are pretty much settled.
 
I can't do anything else because I don't know how to do anything else and I don't even have a degree to show for some job that doesn't really care which degree it is.
 
5:46 PM
Who do you think they'll prefer? A guy with no working experience but a degree or a guy that has no degree but a year of working experience?
@R.MartinhoFernandes Anything else, like?
 
Oh, I can get programming jobs, sure.
 
Ell
@Jefffrey don't envy that
having a degree is great
 
I'm at the wrong train platform.
 
You mean that you can get other jobs other than programming with a computer science degree?
 
Ell
related, I just got an offer from a uni woo
 
5:49 PM
Of course you can. I can become a stripper with a Computer Science degree.
 
@Jefffrey The guy with the degree in nearly every case. Even with 20+ years experience, the last time I was looking for a job it was pretty apparent that a fair number of places I applied barely looked past the "no degree" part before throwing away my resume.
 
user1804599
I had this idea
 
@JerryCoffin I didn't expect that.
I would definitely hire the guy with 1 year hands-on experience.
 
user1804599
def render(component: String, arguments: ToJSONWrapper[_]*) =
    s"""<script>
        require(['$component'], function(component) {
            var data = component(${arguments.map(_.toJSON).mkString(", ")});
            var container = document.getElementById('content');
            React.render(c, container);
        });
    </script>"""
 
lol - we've just had dinner, and there's a cooking prog on the telly, some chefs, Raymond Blanc etc. It's live, and the subtitle computer is doing it's best, but... hehehe...
 
user1804599
5:50 PM
Fuck doing half of the UI rendering server-side.
 
At least I can hope he knows how to use git.
 
user1804599
I'm going to do as much UI stuff as possible client-side from now on.
 
As someone that recklessly failed to get a degree and still got lucky enough to get some nice jobs, I honestly recommend sucking it up and finishing it.
 
Oh, I will.
I have no choice really.
 
Though I did learn a lot in the process of failing to get that degree, which doesn't seem a common experience here.
 
5:52 PM
@Jefffrey I might. Speaking as someone who currently has a degree and about 2-3 years of experience, I'm not sure that someone with just 1 year of experience is better than someone with a degree and no experience.
 
Or, I like to think I have no choice, because the moment I realize I do, I'll probably drop it.
 
Someone with no degree and 3+ years of experience, though...
 
@Jefffrey yeah that kinda happened to me.
 
@Jefffrey Yes, but you're not an HR manager. For an HR manager, it's a lot less about finding good candidates than it is about being able to blame others if a candidate turns out to be terrible. Screening out all resumes from people without degrees is easy to justify, even if it does mean ignoring good candidates.
 
@Jefffrey It's not about hiring, it's about deciding whom to invite for a job interview. Someone with 1 year of hands-on experience may be very inexperienced. He may just have some practical background without knowing any theory. Someone with a degree is likelier to know the theory and only need to be acquainted with a particular technology.
 
5:54 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes lol, I'm guessing that the mind-numbing boredom of a degree course did for you:) I just managed to get my degree by liberal application of part-time jobs and alcohol.
 
I only started drinking alcohol after I left university.
 
I'd prefer people without degrees for C++ programming.
Universities apparently shape bad ones.
 
What did it for me was hubris and laziness.
 
@JerryCoffin Sounds sloppy, but I can understand that with a lot of candidates you might need to prune the set with some simple "no-degree-no-job" logic.
 
Yes
 
5:55 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes lol - that's why you failed. You cannot have a genius-level IQ and go to uni without chemical assistance.
 
OTOH, a 5 years hands-on experience should count as much as a degree IMO
 
@MartinJames lol
 
University was challenging enough.
As I said, I learned a lot.
 
If you try, you will either drop out or turn into a serial killer, (probably of profs/TA's:).
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes You gained them or you lost them?
 
5:57 PM
Sorry, not sure what that replies to.
 
hubris and laziness.
 
I like only 2 of the 20 professors.
 
@Puppy were the cause for his drop-out
the way I read it, at least
 
@AndyProwl It's difficult to compare. The problem is that somebody with 5 (or even 20) years experience can easily have gaping holes in their knowledge. I'm pretty sure I've pointed it out before, but a degree gives at least some degree of assurance that the person in question has a minimal degree of knowledge across the board, so to speak.
 
5:58 PM
ah right
 
What Jefffrey said.
 
He was piss-bored. I can guarantee it.
 
@JerryCoffin Honestly, I really don't think that. I've seen Computing&IT graduates who've never heard of algorithmic complexity, for example.
the problem with a degree is that what gaining that degree entails depends entirely on the institution and teaching professionals, and you can't rely on reputation either.
so I find it hard to put any faith in degree-holding as any indicator of quality.
it's not enough to say that the candidate passed a test when you don't know what the test was.
 
ffs. just found another functional test with a verification step asking testers to ensure that they receive a message beginning "Internal error"
who the fuck thinks that's correct
 

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