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7:00 PM
@AlexM. :D
I see you've opened up to Haskell as well
 
yea it's pretty cool
I wish the atom plugin wasn't so crap
it's crap enough to almost make me want to fix it myself
 
@AlexM. You should try out Hate next :D
 
user1804599
Does the kind of humour in Portal have a specific name?
 
@BartekBanachewicz isn't that a 2D lib
 
@AlexM. yes, why?
 
7:04 PM
don't feel like making any games atm
 
It's not just for games vOv
I should get back to it anyway
I've spent so much time on Turnip
 
god this plugin is dumb
so I have this module with tests, and unless I add hspec and hunit to the build dependencies of the actual program, the plugin fills the thing with red and says it can't find hspec and hunit
 
btw @AlexM. did you get the email from snoyman?
 
who's snoyman?
I did get a funny email today I forgot to post it
 
a guy :D
the mail was titled "Progress in The Haskell Ecosystem"
 
7:08 PM
> Dear,

I Have a Business Proposal for you and I am willing to share ideas with you.

Regards,
Mr Alan Charles Hill
 
I can forward it to you if you want.
@AlexM. lol
 
did you send it to my facebook email?
because I think that's my ancient email that I don't use anymore
 
nah
what should I send it to?
 
hmm this is tricky one sec
 
Folks, is there a way to explicitly set the size of the enum constant?
I can do const unsigned char SOMETHING = 0x2A;.
 
7:09 PM
imma pm u on fb
 
@AlexM. send me an email to my Github address
@AlexM. or that
 
But I can't do enum unsigned char {SOMETHING = 0x2A, THAT_OTHER_THING = 0x2B};
 
@NickAlexeev enum class MyEnum : unsigned char { ... };
 
don't spam me ok thx :P
 
@BartekBanachewicz Thank you. I'll try that. Does this carry a memory penalty? I'm asking because I'm writing for a small microcontroller.
 
7:11 PM
> Researchers Prove Connected Cars Can Be Tracked
 
@NickAlexeev No.
 
you mean cars connected using computers can have their computers tracked?
NO
IT CANNOT BE
 
user1804599
 
pretty lame
 
sending and receiving stuff through tcp looks not very difficult in haskell wiki.haskell.org/Implement_a_chat_server
 
user1804599
7:14 PM
The only party that doesn't break its promises.
 
And now compare that to Boost.Asio and have a laugh
 
So TIL in "Common Core" kids learn multiplication through a matrix rather than memorising a multiplication table.
 
user1804599
Boost.Asio is shit.
 
damn I'm out of cookies
@AlexM. it's "ezpz"
 
@Rapptz my grandma wouldn't let me watch TV until I learned the multiplication table
 
7:16 PM
altough fix is still magic for me
 
@AlexM. Breaking news
@AlexM. Socket API is the least difficult part anyway
Also not async, sucks
 
@ElimGarak I must tell you how glad I am to have learned today that dwarf tossing is banned in Ontario, Canada :P
 
user1804599
@CatPlusPlus Why do you want an async API?
 
@TonyTheLion Actually, the bill didn't go beyond first reading. :D
 
Because networking is async
 
7:19 PM
@ElimGarak oh
lol
 
But it is illegal in France. And the US, although there are efforts to make it legal as it is not empowering the dwarves.
 
Why is that even something that requires a law?
 
user1804599
You can make it async with forkIO.
 
user1804599
You can make any API async with forkIO.
 
It was some sort of a pub sport, throwing dwarves at some kind of a bullseye target. And apparently, it is demeaning to the dwarves.
 
7:20 PM
Not epoll/IOCP, sucks
 
You can't toss another human being, so why would it be ok for dwarves to be tossed?
 
user1804599
GHC runtime system uses epoll under the hood.
 
user1804599
And forkIO spawns a green thread.
 
user1804599
hth
 
user1804599
7:21 PM
--  - with the non-threaded RTS, only some operations on sockets will be
--    non-blocking.  Reads and writes go through the normal async I/O
--    system.  accept() uses asyncDoProc so is non-blocking.  A handful
--    of others (recvFrom, sendFd, recvFd) will block all threads - if this
--    is a problem, -threaded is the workaround.
 
I love magic abstractions that sometimes work
 
Alright, time to kill Bendak Starkiller. /cc @Borgleader
 
user1804599
Bartek Starkiller
 
Almighty @sehe, I summon thee!
I am not worthy, oh @sehe, I humbly request assistance.
 
0
A: Is there any way of making a snow golem survive in hot biomes?

William Allen ballingerI think it will survive a whole day in the neither.

 
7:24 PM
This does not compile and I suck and I do not understand why.
 
The famous Minecraft Neither
 
@wilx livecoding.tv/sehe for treatment
 
user406009
fix is basically like a rfold on an infinite list.
Sorta like f(f(f(f(f(f(....
 
user406009
7:26 PM
f cannot be strict in order for it to work.
 
user406009
In the same way that the accumulation function cannot be strict in an rfold on an infinite list.
 
user1804599
@Jefffrey :v
 
user406009
You can sorta think of fix like an infinite loop.
 
k
so it's forever feeding the result back?
or more to the point
 
user406009
Yes.
 
7:27 PM
a function with its name at the end in do notation
 
@TonyTheLion When I was in about fourth grade, I got a problem marked wrong for exactly the same reason, but being a nun teaching in a Catholic school, there was of course no partial credit--it was just wrong and I was undoubtedly a horrible sinner. Well, okay, they were undoubtedly right about the sinner part anyway.
 
@Elyse what does "non-threaded RTS" mean?
 
user406009
@BartekBanachewicz Yes. And similar to the foldr on an infinite list, you "quit" by simply ignoring the argument.
 
user1804599
@BartekBanachewicz when you disable multithreading.
 
@Elyse why would I want to do that?
 
user1804599
7:29 PM
You want to do that if program runs faster without multithreading.
 
@JerryCoffin oh wow.
 
user1804599
Or if your platform does not support multithreading.
 
user1804599
Where multithreading means having multiple OS threads.
 
user1804599
Not Haskell threads. Haskell threads work even in non-threaded mode.
 
I see.
so if I spawn a Haskell thread in a non-threaded RTS, what about those socket fns?
specficially
> A handful of others (recvFrom, sendFd, recvFd) will block all threads
 
user1804599
7:31 PM
On Windows, some socket-related functions will block all Haskell threads in that case.
 
user1804599
Not just the calling thread.
 
I understand
 
user1804599
This is like doing a blocking operation in a Lua coroutine--prevents others from running in the meantime.
 
haskell uses the system threads by default though, right?
 
user1804599
forkIO doesn't spawn OS threads.
 
user1804599
7:35 PM
That would be moronic, as OS threads are incredibly expensive, and don't offer advantages when you have more than the number of hardware threads.
 
user1804599
Multithreaded RTS resumes Haskell threads on an OS thread pool.
 
user406009
IIRC forkIO runs the task on a thread pool. forkOS runs the task on a specific thread.
 
But the multithreaded RTS is uses by default right?
 
user1804599
Not sure.
 
7:37 PM
assuming I want a GUI application that uses recvFrom
 
user1804599
I think you have to pass +RTS -N to your program.
 
@Elyse Well, apart from minor advantages like being able to write understandable in-line, independent code modules with no silly restrictions on structure, blocking calls and the like.
 
user406009
The default is to have only 1 haskell OS thread.
 
so I should use non-blocking sockets by default
 
user1804599
7:38 PM
@MartinJames Not if you have cheap threads that allow for the same thing but without all of the overhead.
 
user1804599
(Like in Haskell.)
 
user1804599
@BartekBanachewicz Network.Socket does that for you.
 
@Elyse Yes, but they don't work.
 
user1804599
How don't they work?
 
7:39 PM
@MartinJames Excuse me?
 
user1804599
They work just fine.
 
If they did work, the OS would be using them.
 
erm what
 
user1804599
The OS can't use them.
 
they are implemented in terms of OS threads. How would the OS be using them?
 
user1804599
7:40 PM
It's impossible.
 
user1804599
They'd need system calls and kernel objects. The whole point of them is that they don't.
 
user406009
@MartinJames Green threads can be faster because they don't need to support all the requirements of system threads.
 
If there was a means of implementing cheaper threads, the OS would supply them.
 
user1804599
They also have different use-cases.
 
@Lalaland That's what I said - restrictions.
 
user1804599
7:41 PM
OS threads are mostly for parallelism, whereas green threads are for concurrency in general.
 
@MartinJames like what, in particular? Nothing you said applies to haskell threads, I think.
 
@MartinJames Many OSes do (e.g., Windows has lighter weight "fibers" in addition to threads).
 
user406009
For example, green threads usually don't need to support preemptive multitasking. While that's a modern day requirement for system threads.
 
Ell
I'm being stupid
2
 
@Ell You didn't figure that would go un-starred, did you?
 
user1804599
7:42 PM
OS threads also need to assume the worst-case scenario for everything, e.g. assume a program will never do a system call.
 
@Elyse I am prototyping an expression tree visualizer:
printf("%d", sizeof(a[11]));
printf %d: int
 sizeof: unsigned
  [: int
   a: Array<10, int>
   11: int
 
user1804599
Nice.
 
@Ell :|
 
Ell
@jerry :(
 
so why are you being stupid elliotte
 
Ell
7:44 PM
Its okay I sorted now :∆
 
@Elyse how is never making a system call the worst case for anything
 
user1804599
@melak47 Because the thread will never yield by itself.
 
user406009
@fredoverflow Why is "%d" on the same line of printf?
 
user1804599
And thus has to be pre-empted to prevent starvation.
 
Ell
I think the stars you receive for admitting your stupidity in the lounge give you the power to overcome said stupidity
 
user406009
7:44 PM
printf : int
 "%d": char*
 sizeof: unsigned
  [: int
   a: Array<10, int>
   11: int
 
@Lalaland Because printf is a special case at the moment :(
 
user406009
Also, I would use a -> instead of :
 
user406009
It would make things so much more clear.
 
user406009
And [] instead of [.
 
user406009
Otherwise it's really cool.
 
user1804599
7:45 PM
Go's scheduler depends on threads yielding by themselves, and it works very well in practice. However, a kernel can't depend on threads yielding by themselves, as that would be unsafe for pretty much the same reason ulimit exists.
 
@melak47 The code can do lots of work, but cannot take any input data cannot output any of its results. It's the multithreaded equivalent of write-only memory:)
 
@Lalaland Hm, but -> is also an operator in C, that could really confuse people :)
 
@Lalaland pfff
 
user406009
@fredoverflow Or returns or something.
 
user1804599
Imagine Linux didn't support pre-emption, and you ran for(;;); on Coliru.
 
7:46 PM
@Lalaland how about :: :)
 
user406009
: only makes sense because I have seen it used before for type annotation in things like Scala.
 
@fredoverflow Yeah - leave my indirection operator alone! It's bad enough with 'static'.
 
user1804599
It'd never terminate and DoS is just one click away.
 
@melak47 Control has to go back to the kernel somehow
 
@Lalaland it's a mathematical convention
Yeah but shouldn't there be a random chance for that undefined behavior? Every time I run the program I get the same output. If the behavior was undefined (as it should) wouldn't the output be different every time? — TheCrafter 11 mins ago
 
7:48 PM
@Elyse ...at least on a single-core processor--which may be all coliru uses, but is fairly obsolete in general.
 
@Elyse I wonder if I should make compile-time constants subtypes of types, so it would read sizeof: unsigned.4 or something...
 
user1804599
 
user1804599
love the URL
 
user406009
7:49 PM
@fredoverflow I would just stick with C's type system.
 
Would you guys go to a party like this one?
It's "Random party", everything is basically random.
Looks more like disco random though.
 
@Lalaland Sure, I wouldn't give singleton types to programmers. Just for visualization and stuff.
 
user1804599
Why not?
 
user1804599
Dependent typing in C!
 
Thank you Michael Snoyman for spamming me with further links that you forgot to add to your previous spam /cc @Scarlet
 
7:51 PM
@Jefffrey How is that different from any other party?
 
@fredoverflow People wear randomly, music is supposed to be random and probably other ideas based on "random"
 
user406009
Anyways @MartinJames you are correct that green threads "dont work" for certain cases.
 
user406009
In particular they don't work for CPU bound work.
 
@Lalaland Also "%d" is not char* but const char[3] ;)
 
@AndyProwl yeahh FUCKING HELL
 
7:56 PM
@Jefffrey std::random(party);
 
user406009
However, things don't need to solve every possible problem in order to be useful.
 
user1804599
Boost.Spirit is like analog literals for grammars.
 
canned wisdom
 
user1804599
Perls of wisdom.
 
damn I am thinking about buying a garage
but it's not even a question of money
no one is selling them :/
 
8:03 PM
@ElimGarak AWwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwyyyyyyyyeaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
 
@BartekBanachewicz can you buy a small patch of land and build one? Or indeed some, and sell/rent them?
 
@TomW Hmmmm
I think most of the land has been sold already
 
user1804599
 
I'd need to buy something bigger and I can't afford that
 
@Borgleader <3 <3
 
8:10 PM
@Elyse Alright- I know how to drive my co-workers crazy now. Just open that tab in the middle of their tabs.
 
@ElimGarak: Ho boy, that episode about O'Brien in the virtual prison, that was nasty.
 
user1804599
@Nican better: ww.rrerr.net
 
@Puppy Ah, Hard time. Yeah, that one really makes you feel for him. He gets so much shit in DS9, yet he somehow always maintains a positive outlook on everything.
 
this was not a positive-outlook episode.
 
But we had Bashir to save the day. :D
 
8:12 PM
hey cool
you can actually buy a 11 thousand square meters land near me
for 220k Euro
 
now you only need 220k euro
and its a done deal
 
220k euro somehow sounds way more real than 880k PLN
 
user1804599
@BartekBanachewicz that's a lot of money.
 
user1804599
But quite cheap for 11 thousand square metres land.
 
user1804599
220k would be a small house in NL.
 
8:14 PM
is there anything on the land?
 
@TomW surely some monads grow there, otherwise, Bartek wouldn't be interested in it :P
 
ha
 
Good evening everyone.
 
Evening fine sir
 
@TonyTheLion something something yield, something something immutable
 
8:16 PM
I'll try emacs
 
I dunno, I'm tired, there's a joke in there somewhere
 
user1804599
> 1 EUR = 410.511 ZWD
1 ZWD = 0.002436 EUR
 
I was a bit reluctant but then I found out that it has a CALENDAR
 
@ElimGarak Personally I was just expecting O'Brien to hit him and he'd just be like, "That's super healthy dude, do it again"
 
Xeo
8:19 PM
62
Q: Make your language unusable

jimmy23013Try to write some code in your language and make it not satisfying our criteria of being a programming language any more. A language satisfies our criteria (simplified version for this challenge) of being a programming language if: It can read user input representing tuples of positive integer...

wow
dat JS answer
 
user1804599
 
user1804599
awesome flag
 
@Xeo so JS has selfdestruct mode
nice
 
boo, doesn't work in chrome
 
8:25 PM
@Xeo wow
those comments...
 
@ElimGarak lol.
Would look much cooler with a highspeed camera.
 
@ElimGarak and that's why you don't fish with grenades, I guess
 
so I wanted to watch a movie
actually started
and then looked at the link xeo posted and now I want to code again
addiction is a terrible thing
 
You are addicted to code?
Sounds worth than meth.
Bartek, snap out of it!
 
@Elyse what's that?
 
user1804599
8:36 PM
old flag of the USA
 
user1804599
I like the pentagram resemblance.
 
user1804599
 
user1804599
maybe I'll eat this tomorrow
 
@Elyse I prefer that one.
 
@ElimGarak: Dayum, I love the Intendant. She's great.
 
user1804599
8:42 PM
Kapsalon motherfucker.
 
@Puppy Yeah, it's really fun to see Nana Visitor in that role. :D Mirror universe episodes are always kinda awesome. Hilariously, O'Brien's nickname there is Smiley. :D
 
@ScottW heyy
 
@ScottW Hey :)
 
woot
where the hell did I get 10 Canadian cents
the only reasonable-ish explanation is "someone was supposed to give me 10 US cents and gave me 10 Canadian cents instead", but... o.O
 
@ScottW Hey :)
 
8:49 PM
this is mildly disturbing
I have money in a currency I did not expect to have.
WHAT AM I GOING TO DO NOW
 
@Griwes With 10 cents? Not much, honestly.
 
No, with my life!
If I can't control what currencies I own, how can I expect to control my life?!
 
I'm fine
 
@ScottW Your presence enlightens my day :)
 
8:50 PM
@ScottW You're lounging and driving? That's dangerous.
 
@Griwes Try exchanging it at the nearest bank.
 
@ScottW I have 10 Canadian cents of unknown origin.
 
I need to go buy coffee
 
I'm talking with a really nice girl that kinda likes me back. I'm going to ask her out. As soon as I get over the usual chickenshit phase.
 
@ElimGarak I thought you had a girlfriend?
 
8:51 PM
@Puppy Not anymore he doesn't
 
@Puppy Dammit, puppeh, keep up with Lounge drama, we broke up!
 
@ElimGarak I've been in the chickenshit phase forever :(
 
I'm sorry dude, but I have to do this thing called work so I can't always Lounge at ninja speed
 
@TonyTheLion coffee sucks monkey cock
 
I know, just kiddin'. :D
 
8:52 PM
@AnalPhabet HOW TO SUCK COFFEE
 
@TonyTheLion Yeah, this one has been nudging me as well for the past few days. Why is it so hard? :(
 
@TonyTheLion meh
 
@ElimGarak How can you tell?
 
@AnalPhabet I did it on purpose so you wouldn't star it
 
@ElimGarak Split Why.* into a separate message
 
8:53 PM
@ElimGarak I thought you were all about work
 
Practice makes it easier.
 
@ElimGarak Donno :(
I'm so afraid of failing...
:'(
 
@Mr.kbok Well, this one is kinda different. I mean, make me nervous different. I haven't felt something like that in... Like... Ever?
 
I like reading about your love troubles :D
 
Oh so is that what we're doing...
 
8:54 PM
@TonyTheLion I was afraid of failing, too, before. A lot. I failed really, really badly. I'm not afraid anymore :D
 
@Morwenn awww
 
@ElimGarak That's a good sign.
 
@Mr.kbok oh wow.
 
And I mean really bad but it kinda helps in the long term, lol
 
:26425796 deletion is futile
 
8:55 PM
@TonyTheLion Yeah, that's suckage. But I don't know why we care so much. Maybe for the illusion if you never ask her, it'll be a superposition between yes and no?
 
@AnalPhabet :c
 
I think I'm terrified of failure.
 
@ElimGarak Lol.
 
This way, you'll know for sure. Or that's what I've been telling myself for the past hour.
 
If failure in programming makes me as angry as it does, what would failure in girlfriend land do?
 
user1804599
8:56 PM
Make you happy.
 
user1804599
For you are now free.
 
@TonyTheLion Make you sob uncontrollably
 
Ask a girl for advice.
 
@TonyTheLion remove -Wall?
 
@CaptainGiraffe slow claps
 
8:57 PM
@ElimGarak I don't know how well I can handle a no... :(
I asked a girl out once, and she said no
I haven't done it since
 
@TonyTheLion As long as you're calm on the surface, it's a win. :D
 
@ElimGarak Ah thanks for the tip
6
 
@TonyTheLion I've never done so. Sounds scary.
 
I mean, nobody likes being rejected. I've read about people who didn't take it so well... Elliot Rodger or whatever killed 6 people over it last year.
 
I've never asked anybody out. Nobody has ever asked me out (random people on the internet don't count).
 
8:58 PM
So I guess Loungers should do well in comparison. :D
 
@Nooble You have a girlfriend, but didn't ask her out?
 
@Morwenn Time to change that <3
 
@Morwenn ahemdition
 
@ElimGarak Never go full Elliot Rodger
 
@Mr.kbok teenagers
 
8:58 PM
@ElimGarak Not really. I'm fine with it.
 
There's actually a video of him bitching about girls not wanting to go out with him prior to the murders. Creepy as fuck.
 
@Mr.kbok wat .___.
 
@ElimGarak I saw that
 
So, Gene Spafford just told this morning me the required reading for one of his security courses is "How to pick up girls in a bar". Recommended by the CIA apparently.
 
@Morwenn edi ahem hum tion
 

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