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7:00 PM
@Borgleader eew C++
 
more specifically the bit about odr-used
 
> The other values are esoteric and not meant to be used directly from your code. You have been warned.
^ Actual piece of stuff I put in the documentation.
 
The One Definition Rule (ODR) is an important concept in the C++ programming language. It is defined in the ISO C++ Standard (ISO/IEC 14882) 2003, at section 3.2. == Summary == In short, the ODR states that: In any translation unit, a template, type, function, or object can have no more than one definition. Some of these can have any number of declarations. A definition provides an instance. In the entire program, an object or non-inline function cannot have more than one definition; if an object or function is used, it must have exactly one definition. You can declare an object or function that...
 
@Borgleader There are a narrow set of circumstances under which you may not bother to define a static data member, and this is not one of them, because you indirectly take the address of it (and therefore it must exist as an actual object in memory).
 
user1804599
The One True Definition Rule!
 
7:01 PM
You can kind of think of it as a static data member that can't simply be "inlined" at the point of its use, due to what that use is.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Ohhh right ok, that makes sense.
 
hmmm... you can't just take a weak_ptr to a value can you... it has to be got from a shared_ptr... right?
 
user1804599
@FredOverflow I decided to name the bottom type Nothing so you can say throw Nothing as an exception specification. :D
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit gave you and upboat your answer is clearer than shafik's
 
7:03 PM
@райтфолд So you rip off Scala once more!
 
@thecoshman Yes
 
user1804599
@Xeo TL;DR?
 
@Borgleader :)
 
tldr grr dvcs is so hard
 
@Xeo yesh
@райтфолд TL;DR: Abandon your DVCS and return to sanity.
 
user1804599
7:04 PM
my penis is too
 
@CatPlusPlus :\ well at least I am right about that...
 
user1804599
@FredOverflow Not sure about the top type.
 
user1804599
I think I like Everything.
 
> Subversion is closing the barn doors by adding better merge tracking, which should land literally any year now.
Literally any year now!
 
@Griwes That might refer to the auto-merge added two major versions ago.
 
user1804599
7:05 PM
How about and ?
 
> You need to bundle a ton of fonts, because Android has like three of them, none of which happen to be Wingdings.
This made me laugh.
 
Oh, that guy is someone who wants to keep blobs in VCS.
 
I tried gin for the first time
I need to mix it with sth else and see what happens
 
@Griwes laff
 
@CatPlusPlus Your tl;dr looks about right.
I just skimmed over the article, but there doesn't seem to be much in it at all.
 
7:08 PM
> I have wanted to have the full history while offline a grand total of maybe about six times. And this is merely going down over time as bandwidth gets ever more readily available.
Look at this scrub thinking this is about bandwidth
 
@райтфолд I like Anything better.
 
Yeah, he never had to wait hours because the glorious IT support managed to break SVN.
 
user1804599
@FredOverflow Why?
 
> Suffice it to say that I think most developers are pretty fundamentally unaware of how to use their DVCS in a distributed manner in the first place.
 
Or, while on a train without internet. lol
 
7:08 PM
Therefore... what?
 
user1804599
Everything is of that type. :p
 
@райтфолд Because throws Everything sounds like someone has given up :)
 
user1804599
You cannot do that.
 
Yeah, Anything sounds better.
 
user1804599
The types in an exception specification must be subtypes of Exception.
 
7:09 PM
> But because blobs are usually compressed already, they usually don’t compress or diff well at all, and because they tend to be large, this means that your repository can bloat to really huge sizes really fast.
Binary diffs are not a new technology
 
Everything sounds like it is of EVERY type.
 
unity crashed at activation omg
 
@райтфолд Is your Exception hierarchy as complicated as Java's?
 
with this offer I bet even fucking aliens try to use it now
 
user1804599
No.
 
7:10 PM
@CatPlusPlus Let's start from "don't keep blobs in a VCS".
 
Don't try to run Unity, their servers are overloaded
 
posted on March 03, 2015 by James McNellis

In June of last year we published a pair of articles discussing the major changes that we had made to the Visual C++ C Runtime (CRT) for Visual Studio 2015. In "The Great C Runtime (CRT) Refactoring" we explained the major architectural changes that we...(read more)

 
@Griwes He's right in that is a workaround
 
@CatPlusPlus I hope nothing to messed up in the process, I'll try later
 
user1804599
@FredOverflow There's no special subclasses and stuff.
 
user1804599
7:10 PM
All exceptions are treated the same way.
 
It's not 'omg abandon ship' category of problems though
Git implementation issues are also not related to DVCS in general
 
user1804599
If you say proc f(x: List(String)) throw FooException { print(x(1)) } and pass the empty list to f you'll get a contract violation because an out of bounds exception is not a FooException.
 
So far it's repeating the same shit everyone knew about DVCS for years
And hey DVCS is still fucking better
Why am I even wasting my time on this
 
@CatPlusPlus :D
 
Mar 4 '11 at 11:09, by FredOverflow
> Now if you discuss about how to write a for loop, you get a really splendid discussion. If you start arguing about wether you should have a space in between the int and the star in a pointer-to-int, you get a REALLY furious discussion. People actually LOVE discussing things that don't matter, because it's so easy to have an opinion about those things.
 
user1804599
7:13 PM
Well not sure about OOB exceptions anyway.
 
user1804599
Could be a precondition on List#operator() instead.
 
Do you think DBC will be mainstream someday?
 
user1804599
What is DBC?
 
user1804599
Database connection?
 
Design By Contract
 
user1804599
7:14 PM
I have no idea.
 
user1804599
My language makes vigorous use of it, though.
 
user1804599
proc f(x: Z32) { } just defines a precondition that x must be of type Z32, for example.
 
I just wondered how Eiffel was pronounced, and it sounds like "I fell", does it not? "I fell from the Eiffel tower", lol
4
 
user1804599
If you disable preconditions then this won't be checked.
 
user1804599
@FredOverflow More like "I fuhll".
 
7:16 PM
"You pizza?" -- "No, I fuhll."
 
user1804599
I intend to statically find contract violations where possible, though.
 
So like a static type system? :)
 
user1804599
There's no guarantee that a contract violation will be found statically.
 
> Yet I watch OpenBSD, an entire freaking operating system, get by just fine with CVS—CVS—and patch bombs.
lol
 
7:20 PM
Ignore the fact that developing these patches are a fucking pain because you don't have offline VCS capability
Idiot
 
@FredOverflow I Fail (preconditions)
haha, get it? because it has native support for code contracts
ok, I'll show myself out
 
user1804599
Eiffel is awesome.
 
@райтфолд ...except for the parts that aren't.
 
unity's servers seem to be fine now, everything worked
upgrading project
 
@CatPlusPlus lol
 
7:25 PM
so hyped for that pitch black theme
 
user1804599
Good thing there's an AWK implementation in JS.
 
user1804599
Even though it uses Emscripten.
 
:\ can I not use for(auto pair : aMap) to get every key:value pair
 
Xeo
you can
 
user1804599
You can.
 
Xeo
7:26 PM
except if you have move-only types in that map
 
I’m guessing you are using move-only stuff again.
 
erm... no... just PODS (I think)
 
Xeo
then you need auto [const]&
 
50
Q: Bad sign if nobody can comprehend one's code?

Jonathan NeufeldIf a coder writes code that nobody other than he can understand, and code reviews always end with the reviewer scratching his head or holding their head in their hands, is this a clear sign that the coder is simply not cut-out for professional programming? Would this be enough to warrant a caree...

dat code
 
user1804599
@FredOverflow reminds me of some code I wrote lately.
 
7:27 PM
oh... pair.first not pair->first
I am very good at C
 
Xeo
lol
 
return 7 + b * 35;   // there, optimized
 
user1804599
I wrote this: { 0b10: 'C', 0b01: 'P', 0b00: 'A' }[acquaintance.is_customer << 1 & acquaintance.is_prospect]. :)
 
@Xeo glad you saw that as the joke it was :P
 
user1804599
bool is a subtype of int in Python, and true is 1 and false is 0.
 
user1804599
7:28 PM
So you can bitshift Booleans.
 
Oh look - Vlad has his own vampire feeding forum:
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/28839635/i-am-writing-a-simple-program-that-coverts-a-string-into-integers-depending-upon#comment45949127_28839635
3
 
What's the rep exchange rate between Vlad's forum and SO?
 
@райтфолд that sounds so dirty
 
bitch shift
 
Yah - not going there either.
 
7:30 PM
@FredOverflow If you use his forum, you lose all actual reputation you may have had everywhere else on earth.
 
Ehmagerd Imma gonna get a SSD at work
 
@EtiennedeMartel Cool--definitely makes VS work better.
 
@FredOverflow heh
 
@crad Some people, when confronted with a problem, think "I know, I'll use perl." Now they have $(^@#%()^%)(#) problems. — Michael Hampton Jan 10 '14 at 0:54
 
@EtiennedeMartel inb4 8 VS versions fill it.
 
7:31 PM
Exposing it to air fills it
 
@MartinJames Speaking of filling it, I'm hungry.
 
@MartinJames Nah, 2012 only (for now).
 
user1804599
> And there is the crux of the problem: few people know how to describe a regular language
 
Xeo
I'm eating bread.
 
user1804599
All decent regex languages solve that problem by being Turing-complete.
 
7:33 PM
@Xeo "Let them eat cake!"
 
o_0 my cat was just winning like a dog
 
@JerryCoffin Imma going out for summat later. Chinese or Indian, not sure. May use a coin to decide.
 
If I do 5 commits in git and then a push, do all 5 commits end up in the remote repo or just the last one?
 
user1804599
All of them.
 
So the local repo is not more fine-grained than the remote?
 
user1804599
7:34 PM
You can't just omit commits in between since the latest commit has a pointer to the one before it.
 
wtf
the black theme is still pro only
personal is stuck on silver
 
@райтфолд makes sense
 
what the fuck unity
 
@AlexM. lol
 
brb downloading UE
what a piece of fucking shit
 
7:35 PM
It’s ethical F2D!
 
@MartinJames That's OK, true Ygors will provide their own platforms to feed them :)
 
@FredOverflow No. A push basically just replicates your repo to the remote, and a pull replicates the remote to yours. You usually want to do a commit, pull, merge (if needed), then a push (and hope nobody else has pushed while you were merging).
 
Xeo
@AlexM. hahahaha
 
my god this is so lame
 
@πάνταῥεῖ Yeth, I've heard that ith true.
 
Xeo
7:36 PM
Fuck them for locking black theme to pro only :<
They know people want it
 
Unity's Pro features are the stupidest thing ever
 
I feel cheated
I'd trade the profiler for the black theme because I don't fucking need it
 
@FredOverflow A stupid article about a stupid thing
 
@FredOverflow I don't mind putting them there
 
7:37 PM
@CatPlusPlus Opinions on the matter, not the article?
 
user1804599
@FredOverflow Should You Put a Smiley in Your Online Job Application? ⇔ Are You not Applying for Oracle?
 
I apply to game companies
not banking companies
 
@FredOverflow I use Abe Lincoln on daily bases
 
@MartinJames Keep your spile at hand!
 
@FredOverflow My opinion: AIR is awesome! Having been written about there, this might even be nominated for an Ignobel Prize. What a privilege!
 
7:38 PM
even gamemaker gives you a dark skin
 
user1804599
Oh MGS5 will be released in September.
 
an ugly dark skin but dark nonetheless
 
user1804599
Now I know when to take a week off!
 
user1804599
:-(_
 
user1804599
7:39 PM
A drooling sad smiley.
 
Or maybe a scar from the razor?
 
@FredOverflow ...or if you're feeling more charitable, from fencing.
 
@ScarletAmaranth You mean the ;) smiley or something else?
 
@райтфолд me when I see a hot chick
 
@FredOverflow the one with a hat
 
7:41 PM
@AlexM. You really need to get laid.
 
man if I knew I wouldn't have updated
there's nothing in Unity 5 helping my current project
I just wanted the theme
what a failure
 
@ScarletAmaranth Never seen =|:-)= used in practice.
 
@FredOverflow me neither ^^
 
I wouldn't even know what it stood for.
 
@райтфолд You mean, we'll have a week off, bearing with you? Well, I wish you a nice holiday, and having others a relaxed time:-)
 
7:43 PM
I mean, why would I end a sentence in "Take this with a grain of Abe Lincoln"?
 
I think that's not Abe
 
@FredOverflow Isn't that a Lego bit, not a grain?
 
more like that I want you! guy
you see in american propaganda posters
 
No no no no no
 
@AlexM. You mean Uncle Sam.
 
7:44 PM
It is for sure Good'ole Abe with a fumbly barber.
 
fuck you, Maybe is not for error flow
 
@FredOverflow yeah that guy
 
@Jefffrey Either?
 
@FredOverflow That or simply exceptions
Maybe is for an optional value, damnit
What's so hard about it
 
@AlexM. More of a goatee, no? =|:-)>
 
7:47 PM
Feb 27 at 16:00, by Alex M.
a job invite that is actually personalized
wtf I refused it but the chick insists to discuss and meet for a coffee anyway
dayum baby get off my case I ain't moving
 
Xeo
ignore it vOv
 
it feels kinda weird to ignore something that isn't a canned message
they must be desperate or sth, and given the fact that the place looks almost identical in terms of products to my previous workplace (that I did not like)
just reinforces my idea of NOPE
 
You are not discussing a programming job are you Alex?
 
@райтфолд I just noticed that String?? and String? are the same type in Ceylon, because String?? = String|Null|Null = String|Null = String?
 
I am
 
7:54 PM
@AlexM. Maybe she has the hots for you.
 
too risky
my linkedin photo is from high school
 
@AlexM. What kind of hellish experience did you have with that workplace to describe it in those terms? I was curious, but now you have my attention.
 
@AlexM. check your privilege
linkedin triggers me
 
@CaptainGiraffe the workplace itself was not bad in any way, but I ended up having enough of programming this kind of stuff play.google.com/store/apps/… after somewhat less than a year
this chick's company does the same kind of games
 
You're a man of integrity in my book.
 
8:03 PM
> Fun! Fun! Fun!!!
@AlexM. lol
> Cutest Pet Care Game EVER!!!
 
I really wish there was a way for me to join one of these indie teams that make oldschool games in Unity or w/e
maybe later :(
 
@AlexM. No error handling?
 
@FredOverflow yeah, the silliness got to me eventually
wasn't able to take the preschooler vibe for too long
@FredOverflow I don't really have a proper portfolio with relevant Unity projects
I'm working towards building one
I'd add samples from the Unity games I developed at that place, but they're pretty much nothing compared to something like a RPG
 
@CaptainGiraffe Can I buy that book?
 
user1804599
@FredOverflow Eiffel also has null safety.
 
8:07 PM
It does? In what form?
 
user1804599
bar(x: STRING) do end

foo(x: detachable STRING)
    do
        bar(x) -- this is illegal
        if attached x as y then
            bar(y) -- ok
        end
    end
 
nice
 
user1804599
I think you can give y the same name as x, shadowing the original x, but I'm not sure.
 
user1804599
You can also do check instead of if to turn it into an assertion.
 
Xeo
nom nom Krakauer
 
8:17 PM
> Still no Linux based Editor. Ball is in your court now Crytek!
Crytek could come up with a Linux editor for their engine
I mean it's the only thing they can do now lol
beside paying people to use their engine
 
@райтфолд I thought the D compiler was written in C+? All I see is C files...
 
user1804599
It uses .c for C++ code.
 
user1804599
For some moronic reason.
 
They should have used .cp as a compromise.
 
user1804599
Also, it's only the front-end.
 
user1804599
8:20 PM
The code generator is proprietary Digital Mars software.
 
But there's also an llvm backend, isn't there?
 
user1804599
Yes.
 
user1804599
My colleague bought a boat.
 
where are all the interesting questions at? as most often; I'm bored.
 
@райтфолд Whatever floats his boat...
 
user1804599
8:24 PM
@FilipRoséen-refp
 
user1804599
@AlexM. you should see me.
 
@райтфолд honestly I normally don't find questions tagged as interesting, mostly I face-palm when I see people over-complicating things and I move on to some other tag
 
Xeo
8:45 PM
@FilipRoséen-refp find a hobby
 
@Xeo c++ is my hobby
and smoking too much
 
Other native german speakers around
@ForceBru LOL! "Sie Ihre Mitgliedsvariablen initialisieren wollen" And even more ridiculous; "Außerdem geben Sie den vollständigen Typ mit std :: string statt nur Schnur."πάντα ῥεῖ 3 mins ago
 
uh, I can understand something but definitely I can't speak German
 
@FilipRoséen-refp You're not in Kansas anymore
I'm grand dan spielt man assen.
 
Xeo
9:01 PM
@πάνταῥεῖ Yes?
 
user1804599
9:19 PM
Rust's module system is even worse than C++' #include crap.
 
user1804599
The latter at least works.
 
the exponent of a float is the integer part right?
wait...
derp
 
@thecoshman It is an integer, but it's not the integer part.
 
yeah... getting the integer part from a float seems... non trivial :S
 
Xeo
9:32 PM
@thecoshman the fuck are you trying to do
 
@райтфолд Is it possible to pass a type by reference to a void pointer and later cast it back? For example:
int datax = 45;
void* datay = &datax;

How would I cast back to int?
 
user1804599
static_cast<int*>(datay).
 
@Xeo go from a float to a floored/ceilinged int vOv
 
Xeo
uhm. std::floor / std::ceil?
 
Oh, awesome, thank you.
 
user1804599
9:33 PM
You should buy a C++ book that is listed here: tinyurl.com/so-cxxbooks
 
Pass.
:P
 
:P ass
 
@Xeo return floats
 
Xeo
cast to int afterwards
 
9:35 PM
Nah.
@thecoshman Cast from float to int, no need for rounding.
 
@Xeo static_cast<int> produces... interesting values (10.000000, 1.700000, -15.000000) => (4211216, 0, 0)
 
int x = int( float );
 
Xeo
@thecoshman wat
 
You broke it.
 
Xeo
you're doing something very wrong
 
9:37 PM
int x = static_cast<int>(std::floor(realPosition.x))
:\
 
Xeo
then you're doing something wrong at another point :P
 
If you are taking a pointer you are probably doing something wrong. If you are using a void pointer you are definitely doing something wrong.
 
user1804599
@thecoshman SSCCE or GTFO.
 
@thecoshman liar
 
@thecoshman Is that MVC++?
or whatever is the acronym for that microsoft crap
 
Xeo
9:39 PM
I wish there was two variants of ceil / floor in the stdlib - one that leaves it a floating point type, and one that returns an integral type.
 
VC++, VSC++, MVSC++ you got it
@Xeo Makes no sense
 
Xeo
Why not?
 
@Xeo I agree
 
user1804599
auto myceil = compose(static_cast<int>, std::ceil); oh wait HAHAHA C++
 
9:41 PM
@Xeo Because if you want a float out of those functions you can just cast the returned int to a float. That's probably an implicit conversion too.
 
Xeo
@Jefffrey Convenience.
Yes, I can just write my own small wrapper around it that does the cast
means I need to write that wrapper, though
(the cast would be in the other direction, btw. float -> int)
 
The most strict type to represent the value coming from ceil and floor is int. And that one should be returned. You want some other type? You do the conversion in another step.
 
¬_¬ you know what tends to generate random output... not fucking setting data on shit
 
Xeo
@thecoshman gg
 
lol
Technically not random though
 
9:43 PM
seem my function wasn't explicitly returning so the compile just helped out by auto generating an object for me
time for bed me thinks
 
Xeo
so lovely that that isn't an error!
 
Wait, not even a warning?
 
nope, not a pip
 
Xeo
you compiling with -Wall or /W4?
 
remind me tomorrow (evening) and I'll actually sscce it
someone put it in the event thing :P
night
 
9:45 PM
night
 
Xeo
I think I'll head to sleep too, strangely sleepy today.
 
@Jefffrey That's ridiculous. Many rounded floats/doubles are way too big for int.
 
@FredOverflow long long int?
 
Still way too limiting, double can be as large as 2^1023 or something.
 
bignum?
 
9:48 PM
11
Q: g++ -Wall not warning about double-> int cast

Captain GiraffeIn the following snippet no warnings are produced. g++4.4.3 -Wall -pedantic //f is void f(int ); f(3.14); double d = 3.14; int i = d+2; I have a strong recollection of this being a warning, something along the lines of "Possible loss of precision". Was it removed or is my memory playing trick...

 
I don't understand what's wrong with double. It is guaranteed to be able to hold the rounded result in all cases.
 
@FredOverflow 10^308 is the number I can manage to remember.
 
308*3.32 = 1022.56
seems right
 
I don't get it
 
1k for those curious.
 
9:50 PM
3.32?
 
log(10)_2
 
@FredOverflow The problem with double is that it can't hold numbers to trillion+ digit precision, and do math on any size of them in a single cycle, and make that trillion digit number fit into a single machine register.
 
Nice
 
@JerryCoffin What does that have to do with the proper return type of std::ceil(double)?
Oh wait, you were being sarcastic. Nice.
 
The idea is that std::ceil returns an integral number. So it should be represented by an integral type.
 
9:51 PM
@FredOverflow Not sarcastic, just ironic.
 
@JerryCoffin facetious
 
@CaptainGiraffe Fractious. Or factual...or something.
 
So I was thinking about my JSON library again
and I wondered if I needed to provide interfaces for char16_t and char32_t and UTF-16 and UTF-32
:(
I kinda do the whole "assume input is UTF-8" thing
 
Xeo
basic_json<CharT>!
 
pls no
I hate unicode so far
 
9:55 PM
If you do JSON input you need to do char encoding.
 

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