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3:00 PM
@ParkYoung-Bae I find it funny how the same tools can work so strangely different for people
cue me and GDB
 
> Wanted: Dangerous PHP Developer
I don't even
Why can't we downvote SO.Careers ads
 
@BartekBanachewicz I'm going to file this under 'you just don't use it enough and are dazzled by lucky first impressions'.
 
All C++ IntelliSensey stuff is completely unreliable.
Well, some things are very reliable, like the "waiting for IntelliSense operation to complete" modal dialog box with a marquee progress indicator.
 
0
Q: How would you implement this adaptive 'fudge factor' in a scheduler?

Lightness Races in OrbitI have a scheduler, endlessly executing n actions. Each action is scheduled for x seconds into the future. When an action completes, it is re-scheduled for another x seconds into the future after its previously scheduled time. Every 1s, the scheduler "ticks", executing at most 25 actions which ar...

 
3:03 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes hehehe. The quote is from a SO question tagged
 
Massively subjective but fuck it there's probably objective answers to be given here
and I gots to know
 
@BartekBanachewicz I think you misspelled "less sucky than expected"
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes lol, IntelliSense 'progress' :)
 
I think I spend more time waiting for IntelliSense to complete than compiling, tbh
 
3:04 PM
@BartekBanachewicz hmm, interesting. if it means we won#t be stuck with beautiful hlsl or ugly glsl anymore, I'm all for it :v
 
oh hi @melak47 I forgot you exist
I still haven't forgotten you not turning up on the unconference, though.
 
@ParkYoung-Bae Just who designs such crap?
 
@BartekBanachewicz lol thanks :p
 
@MartinJames The IntelliSense Fairy
 
@ParkYoung-Bae I'm pretty sure that IntelliSense was not designed by anything supernatural.
 
user3010322
3:06 PM
@MartinJames Don't be so narrow-minded, Martin: supernatural evil exists too.
 
@MartinJames "was not designed" is the correct choice of words
 
@ThePhD Well then, can we send Sam and Dean round to MS?
 
Btw @Bartek what is your question exactly?
 
Why does this crash with GCC 4.7? coliru.stacked-crooked.com/a/eb64a7053f542efd
 
3:08 PM
I mean, if I'm understanding it correctly, the answer is in the paragraph you quoted. lol
 
@BartekBanachewicz You know what's worse about "go to definition"?
 
@ParkYoung-Bae no, the article mentions the older Uniform functions, not UBOs
 
It's not when it fails.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes lol
 
It's when it sort of succeeds.
 
3:09 PM
@BartekBanachewicz UBOs use DMA?
 
Jul 24 '14 at 19:18, by R. Martinho Fernandes
Namely, "go to definition" also occasionally leads you to random code in the middle of nowhere.
 
@wilx cos lol
@wilx debug it?
 
@ParkYoung-Bae they reside in GPU memory if that's what you're asking. Like every buffer, really
 
Yes but do they use DMA? I don't think so
 
user3010322
@wilx Buggyform Initialization /cc @R.MartinhoFernandes
 
3:10 PM
I think that's implementation dependent, no?
> Uniform Buffer Objects allow fast exchange of uniform values because they were backed up by a buffer object. As far as i know DMA is used to transfer the data directly from your system memory into the GPU memory.
mm that's about transfer, not usage, hm
@R.MartinhoFernandes lol
 
@ThePhD Is it a known bug for that GCC?
 
Program received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault.
0x6fc6591f in libstdc++-6!_ZNKSs4sizeEv () from C:\MinGW\bin\libstdc++-6.dll
(gdb) bt
#0  0x6fc6591f in libstdc++-6!_ZNKSs4sizeEv ()
   from C:\MinGW\bin\libstdc++-6.dll
#1  0x6fcba555 in libstdc++-6!_ZStlsIcSt11char_traitsIcESaIcEERSt13basic_ostreamIT_T0_ES7_RKSbIS4_S5_T1_E () from C:\MinGW\bin\libstdc++-6.dll
#2  0x00401427 in _fu1___ZSt4cout () at test.cpp:9
#3  0x004014c0 in main () at test.cpp:15
 
lol mantle has 5 questions asked on SO
one of which is a mistag
actually two
 
@BartekBanachewicz Just try making a class with a std::vector<int> x; member, and then use a ranged-for loop on x. With the cursor in the loop, ask it to go to definition of x and see where it ends.
 
@Bartek I'll reword: do uniform buffers, at any point in time, use host memory?
 
3:13 PM
similar to this perhaps
 
Hi
Should I switch to Clang?
 
@Cinch Yes. No. Maybe. Fuchsia.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Fuckya
 
user1804599
So fucking nice.
 
3:15 PM
Also GDB or LLDB?
 
@ParkYoung-Bae uh, dunno, to pass data? IDGI
 
@BartekBanachewicz I mean, when you write to an UBO, is the write staged in host memory?
 
So you are saying that {} initializes the std::map wrongly/inconsistently and thus it enters the loop and there it crashes?
 
3:17 PM
It crashes on size
 
@ParkYoung-Bae "staged"? It's filled like every other buffer.
either by Buffer(sub)data, or by mapbuffer
 
@CatPlusPlus Not in my last link.
 
Oh buffered
nvm
 
user3010322
@Cinch Last I checked LLDB was kinda shitware and GDB was better. Clang produces gdb-compatible binaries because at least on that stuff they can agree.
 
user3010322
So now if you want to choose between Clang and GCC it's just a matter of how well you want to support Windows.
 
3:18 PM
@ParkYoung-Bae also I think UBOs are read-only
 
@BartekBanachewicz Ok but basically vulkan uses a unified virtual address space for everything, are UBOs too?
 
user3010322
Clang has all the right support in EXCEPT exceptions, which I know for me is a big deal because I use exceptions routinely.
 
oooh
> SSBOs are a lot like Uniform Buffer Objects.
what the fuck
I'm so bad at opengl
forgot about SSBOs
 
> You currently receive an interest rate of 1.20% AER / 1.19% gross p.a. (variable). From 1 April 2015 this will be reduced to 0.70% gross p.a./AER (variable).
ffs
 
Is that Super Smash Bros Buffer Objects
 
3:20 PM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit AER?
 
user1804599
Eveyrhtng is terribel
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit ..and, in five years time, they might think about reducing the corresponding mortgage rate.
 
3:20 PM
@ThePhD It's not the binaries. It's the debug info.
 
Mortgage rates and interest rates are calculated from the same indices here afair
 
> SSBO access, all things being equal, will likely be slower than UBO access. SSBOs generally are accesses like buffer textures, while UBO data is accessed through internal shader-accessible memory reads. At the very least, UBOs will be no slower than SSBOs.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit OW
 
@ParkYoung-Bae ^
 
user3010322
@R.MartinhoFernandes Sorry, right, they produce compatible binaries since they both produce DWARF stuff when asked by default.
 
3:21 PM
I think this might be the answer
Vulkan reads are as fast as UBOs without their limitations.
But I have no information to back it up
 
I don't think that's related at all
 
Is there any API reference on that or moontle
 
user3010322
...
 
user3010322
Oh my god.
 
user3010322
They fixed the bug.
 
3:22 PM
UBO and SSBO are stored in different memory parts of the GPU
 
@CatPlusPlus mantle api has been released ages ago IIRC
 
user3010322
#include <functional>

struct A;

struct Z {
	std::reference_wrapper<A> smash;
	Z ( A& a ) : smash(a) {

	}
};

struct A {

};

int main () {
	A a;
	Z z(a);
}
 
Vulkan is a driver only
 
user3010322
Can someone test that for me in their VS vLatest?
 
It does not affect the hardware
 
user1804599
3:23 PM
no
 
Nobody uses CTP
@BartekBanachewicz Yeah but wheeeeeeere
 
user3010322
q_q
 
user1804599
Open Gay Lord
 
Mantle specs are not public
 
user1804599
Dismantle them.
 
3:24 PM
@ParkYoung-Bae oh hm I think I have a PDF somewhere
 
user1804599
Me too.
 
@ThePhD: webcompiler.cloudapp.net But it appears top be under maintenance right now.
 
user3010322
AAAGH
 
user1804599
It's an invoice test.
 
user3010322
WHY DOES RISE4FUN AHVE TO BE DOWN
 
user3010322
3:24 PM
@wilx Yeah. :(((
 
@ThePhD I have one at home.
 
@ThePhD That's the codename I use for my penis! RISE4FUN
 
user3010322
@R.MartinhoFernandes If you could please test it, I need to know exactly when they fixed it, because it was a problem for me up to VS 2015 CTP 1, and I haven't checked after that...
 
user3010322
Maybe they finally fixed it for CTP 6.
 
user3010322
3:25 PM
Oh my god I don't care if my code never compiles on VS 2013. I'm never going back to the old buggy way. ;~;
 
@MartinJames yeah -.-
 
"I last checked half a year ago but surely it must still be a problem"
 
user3010322
@CatPlusPlus The release notes didn't say anything!!
 
@ThePhD The new buggy way is much better.
 
user3010322
Plus I compiled three months ago thank you very much.
 
user3010322
3:26 PM
Hmph.
 
Oh, we're going to have a Lounge Game Marmalade?
 
I vote for freeform, 3 hours, optional 2-man teams.
 
user3010322
Might as well star that right up.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Three HOURS?
 
user3010322
@Cinch Everybody can be awake for that period of time.
 
3:27 PM
@Bartek I kind of want to answer your question because I think I know the answer. But you still haven't told me if buffer writes are staged in a host buffer
 
@Cinch Too much? Too little?
 
That's too little
I mean I'll have to make a text adventure game with that amount of time
Or worse
 
user3010322
The only way to make it work is 48 hours so that everybody has time to sleep as they will in their timezone, or a very short time (3-5 hours) so that everybody can bang out the time no matter what time zone they're in.
 
@ThePhD Welp... sigh.
 
user3010322
24 hours gets awkward depending on when you start.
 
3:28 PM
At least Corona and Unreal are both free right now
 
I think three hours is a lot less than I need for the game I plan to make.
 
@ThePhD Whenever it is, I can almost guarantee that I'll be stuck somewhere with only phone access:(
@R.MartinhoFernandes So, you've already written it.
 
@ParkYoung-Bae does that mean I am the one who will do all the spec digging and you will be getting the rep?
 
@MartinJames What do you mean?
 
@BartekBanachewicz Yes
No I just thought you knew how OpenGL worked
 
3:30 PM
inb4 close my Q because of lack of research effort
 
Also holy shit Vulkan is the future
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Oh... 'less', sorry - IRTA 'more'
 
@Cinch yes
 
@BartekBanachewicz YES
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I am thinking about hybrid
two categories: short and long, at the same time
 
3:31 PM
What does that mean?
 
user3010322
This looks like it would fit a range better than I could make it fit an iterator....
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes if you manage to squeeze in the short, submit as short. If you don't, or still want to work longer, submit for long too.
short being 3-4 hours and long 24-48
 
@Bartek In fact I'm pretty sure I know the answer
I will henceforth redact an answer that shall give me 0 rep because noone can confirm ah ah
 
@BartekBanachewicz I can't think of a great game I can do in 3 hours
Also; do we have any information on what existing platforms will support Vulkan?
Like my phone or no?
 
3:34 PM
@EtiennedeMartel Unity is still king
 
@Cinch ES 3.1
 
From what I hear because it's not just an engine
 
Tools make or break the tech.
 
user1804599
I want to sail.
 
TIL Portugal was the first country to abolish life sentences.
 
user1804599
3:34 PM
I haven't done it for years.
 
@EtiennedeMartel was on the starboard but went off
 
@ThePhD Your code has undefined behavior. What do you expect a test to show?
 
user1804599
TIL Portugal was the first country to abolish life sentences.
 
@ParkYoung-Bae hihi
 
user3010322
@JerryCoffin No compiler errors.... also, where's the Undefined Behavior? :o
 
3:35 PM
@Cinch then do a mediocre one vOv
 
user3010322
IIRC std::reference_wrapper isn't supposed to require the actual class to be defined...
 
user3010322
Just declared.
 
user3010322
Like an actual reference.
 
@BartekBanachewicz Well, as long as I can shove multiplayer Life into it.
 
@BartekBanachewicz lol I'll just use Python and make a visual novel
with glowsticks
 
3:36 PM
I get the idea of using interfaces so that the implementation can be swapped out... but it seems kind of pointless when it's never actually done. It's just more boiler plate from what I can see
 
@ThePhD You're instantiating reference_wrapper over an incomplete type. That's prohibited in general (§17.6.4.8) unless the specific type says something to allow it (and as far as I can see, reference_wrapper doesn't).
 
user1804599
Rust is cool.
 
@thecoshman if your design is good you can refactor into interfaces really easily
 
user3010322
@JerryCoffin Oh. But that's really kind've unfair... std::reference_wrapper should totally have an exception against that rule! It's meant to wrap references!
 
user1804599
Although I fear things like Send get underused.
 
3:37 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes most of the people seemed to prefer themes though
 
Also, I wonder if Vulkan will support web?
 
@BartekBanachewicz well... isn't the idea of the interfaces is that it shows the highlevel... interface...
 
@BartekBanachewicz Life!
Themes are ok.
 
@Bartek Just to confirm my suspicions: do you know where I can find an open-source implementation of glUniform*?
 
3:38 PM
but when shit just keeps being added to the interface... kinda defeats that idea...
 
user3010322
No themes.
 
user3010322
@ParkYoung-Bae Mesa.
 
@ParkYoung-Bae Mesa
 
Hm...
 
@thecoshman "high-level" doesn't mean "not domain-specific"
 
3:38 PM
How about we choose "Themes" as our theme?
 
Themes should be optional
 
hmpfh
I suppose we need another poll or two
 
@thecoshman Might as well not have them, then.
 
@ThePhD Unfortunately, it also supports the old unary_function and binary_function interfaces, which require it to know what type it's being instantiated over.
 
I need to make a poll asking whether we want another poll.
 
3:39 PM
If you'll get to pick your theme... well that's exactly how it works without themes.
 
...
 
user3010322
@JerryCoffin I'm confused.
 
Ugh
let's just go without themes
but what's the core value for the contest?
 
@ThePhD ref wrappers of callables are callables.
 
originality? quality? gameplay? theme? story? assets?
 
3:40 PM
@BartekBanachewicz interface has function for something like "getCollectionOfOnlineServer", then also offers a function that can reduce that to a random percentage subset... ok... sure we do need that... but in that interface? and then it goes and has a function that that reduces to a random subset, but if none are founds adds the one special thing into this collection.
 
user3010322
@R.MartinhoFernandes ... Dirty.
 
@Cinch No one cares.
 
@thecoshman that's not a good design
 
@BartekBanachewicz I know! :'(
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes oh fine.
 
3:41 PM
spoiler: not ever bit of code you get to work on is your own creation.
 
> Slut a like
 
I say focus on whatever you think is more important.
 
@Cinch last time we voted for best content, gamemplay and overall
 
this is the serendepity plugin. I love that
/not
 
and this fucking review system they have in place makes it more awkward than it needs to be
 
3:42 PM
@thecoshman yes, bad code is bad code.
 
user1804599
ok so constant folding is not too hard
 
@Cinch 'story' is not a good criteria because it carries the underlying assumption that there is a story.
 
@ThePhD For example, reference_wrapper<T> defines a member named result_type if and only if T is a function type.
 
user1804599
warning on type errors should also be fairly trivial
 
3:42 PM
@BartekBanachewicz So no sectional scores?
 
@Cinch it's really not about scores
 
I mean how do you quantify "goodness" is all I'm asking
 
We just vote for it.
 
user3010322
@JerryCoffin Well... that's kind of unfair. :c
 
@Cinch I use the thing called Bartek'o'meter
 
user3010322
3:43 PM
I mean, it's fair.
 
Oh yeah I forgot it's noncompetitive at heart
 
user3010322
But it's unfair!!!
 
user3010322
HUFF.
 
user3010322
Stupid typedefs.
 
anyway thoughts on this hybrid thing?
 
3:43 PM
@ThePhD what was broken here before? o.O
 
user3010322
@melak47 VC++ wouldn't let you std::reference_wrapper an undefined (but forward-declared) type.
 
@ThePhD It is (IMO) a poor design with respect to the single responsibility rule.
 
user3010322
@JerryCoffin .get()(args) should have been what they made people do!
 
user3010322
Huff. HUFF.
 
user1804599
Huffman coding.
 
3:45 PM
Proposal: The marmalade will feature two categories, short and long. Short is (3-6) hours, long is (24-48) hours. You can start your 3-hour thing at any point of time in the long period. If you decide you won't make it, or want to expand, you can work till the end of the long period and compete in the long category.
 
@ThePhD The point is: the standard doesn't require it work for incomplete types, and given its design, I'm somewhat doubtful that anybody can ever write an implementation that will work for incomplete types.
 
user3010322
But noo, generic <algorithm> and stuff needing to work and rather than just force people to store a temporary const value_type& = *it;, they needed to just "have it work" with (*it)(args);
 
user3010322
grumbly grumbly grumble
 
user3010322
Burn in hell, library devs. ಠ_ಠ
 
Also does anyone here have any foray into web apps + C++?
 
3:47 PM
if we say start on the 10am saturday, we can make it 36-hour, up to 10pm sunday, and start the 6-hour jam at 4pm, sunday
that way we are all here at the end.
 
user3010322
@JerryCoffin If you can trigger SFINAE on incomplete types, maybe, uh, it could sort of work? (Or at least fudge it.)
 
@ThePhD hey, so...I guess this is a greeat opportunity to design a shading language on top of vulkan ir or whatever :D
 
lol
Bartek the time zone
the time zone man
 
all times UTC unless qualified
 
@ThePhD That's horrible.
 
user3010322
3:48 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes u.u
 
Good thing I"m UTC-11 huh?
 
std::is_complete is an abomination.
 
QQ
 
user3010322
But... but I don't want the undefined behavior. ;~;
 
You prefer context sensitive code?
 
3:49 PM
@ThePhD Well, somebody might surprise me (it certainly wouldn't be the first time) but I'm not going to hold my breath (and even if they managed to do it, I'm not sure it's a good idea anyway).
 
user3010322
Well... no... but...
 
user3010322
@melak47 No, this is an opportunity to write a Vulkan IR -> HLSL compiler, because D3D is NEVER going to play ball with Vulkan.
 
@Cinch well that's not really a problem easy to solve. It would be 11am for you for the end
 
#include <something_completely_unrelated_that_happens_to_leak_a_definition_of_that_type> breaks std::is_complete.
It shouldn't exist.
 
@ThePhD but if glNext doesn't suck we won't need D3D anymore :D
 
3:50 PM
@BartekBanachewicz lol ikr
@melak47 When have we ever needed D3D?
 
user3010322
@melak47 Tell that to all the big companies. :v
 
user3010322
@Cinch Once upon a time, in a land right next to you and in a time when you were actually alive, OpenGL sucked the biggest undersea trench worms it could find.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I need help. I don't want to force things on people too much but I've no idea how to sum up the expectations into something reasonable.
 
Helene cannot stay with both Paris and Menelaos.
 
is this a metaphor
 
user3010322
3:56 PM
Yes, about the Trojan War.
 
I'm a Discordian pope. I have to make Discordia references.
 
so.
Does lifting the restrictions really make the jam more enjoyable?
 
The sooner you accept you can't please everyone the better.
 
Already did that with the time.
 
Then just pick something you think is a good compromise.
 
user3010322
3:58 PM
So about those library use restrictions cough cough.
 
last two times people didn't show up on time for start
maybe fixing the end time is what we need
 
user3010322
hint hint wink wink nudge nudge eyebrow waggle waggle!
 
user3010322
honk honk beep beep
 
@ThePhD already told you you can use your engine, heck off
 
user3010322
♥!
 
3:59 PM
but I want the game logic opensourced. Can you accept that?
 

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