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12:05 AM
3 hours ago, by Lightness Races in Orbit
Goodnight Jofffrey
 
I need a DSLR.
 
> However, Ms Petroff and her colleagues identified a far more mundane source for perytons – microwave ovens used by astronomers to heat up their pot noodles.
Whoops.
 
12:15 AM
and opening the door before the timer goes... wtf?
 
I do that all the time.
I don't need to hear that damn beeping sound.
 
You wait in front of the microwave and press the button just before the timer reaches zero? Sounds like fun.
 
I open the door just before the timer reaches zero.
The beeping sound is indeed annoying.
 
same
hate that noise
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Do "civilized" nations not have beeping microwaves?
 
12:28 AM
@Blob What really irks me are microwaves that keep beeping even after I've opened the door. If I ever design software for a microwave, one of the non-negotiable requirements will be that I can at least have it detect the door being opened, and stop the beeping immediately (and I know they already detect the door being opened--it's just a matter of using that and reacting appropriately).
 
get rid of the damn beeping sound and replace it with something nice
 
@Blob Irrelevant--even if the sound is nice, if the intent is to inform me of some fact, it should clearly stop immediately upon "realizing" that I know.
 
Also it makes me feel like I'm defusing a bomb, which is nice...
 
nothing wrong with the beeping
man up
etc
right, goodnight again. i guess
 
I wonder if improving the sound would actually help.
I rotate my alarms periodically because no matter how nice the sound is, once I've used it as an alarm for a while, I start hating it.
So maybe the same thing would happen with the microwave.
 
12:36 AM
@Brian I can see it now--arguments over whether you can really hear the difference between Beehoven's Ninth as rendered on a Sharp vs. LG Microwave...
 
Yes you can
 
Everyone calm down
I have arrived
 
why? did you bring some sedative?
 
@chmod711telkitty whiskey
 
12:54 AM
Guys how do i manipulate the stack heap with c++
12
 
@nick int x = 0;
 
@nick what the fuck
 
How do i measure the size of my stack?
 
@nick Watch Mean Girls. It covers many of the best forms of manipulation.
 
@nick Only insecure people do that.
 
1:01 AM
@JerryCoffin this is very good information, thank you
 
Your stack is fine no matter what!
 
@LucDanton I cannot achieve full confidence until i know my size though
 
as long as the program fits, girls are fine with whatever sized stack
3
 
@Blob but bigger is always better right? is there a way to increase my stack size?
 
@nick it's automatically done as your program grows larger up to a certain point where the OS kills it off.
 
1:03 AM
@nick Bribe the linker to tell all the girls about your giant stack.
 
by "program", i mean "how much memory you're using", but that's harder to fit into a dick joke
 
@nick You fail at the moment you assume your running program even has a stack, not to mention measuring the size.
 
@milleniumbug i think he's old enough to know whether he has a stack or a heap.
 
@Blob i haven't decided yet
 
these kids today...
 
1:08 AM
@milleniumbug why wouldnt it have a stack?
 
It's an implementation detail
A program can very well run without a stack
 
i thought it was automagically generated when the main function starts
 
@Cicada society has yet to fully accept them
 
@nick As far as C++ is concerned, variables of automatic storage duration could be stored in unicorn farts instead.
 
guys serious question, is there automatic garbage collection for c++?
 
1:11 AM
@nick yes. destructors.
 
+1
 
cleaning up after myself is a pain in the ass
 
@nick If you say so!
 
RAII++
 
destructors clean up for you :|
 
1:12 AM
@Blob Garbage collection is a term of art.
 
@milleniumbug unicorn fart duration
 
destructor sounds so much more intimidating i think i prefer garbage collector
 
@nick not the same
Resource Acquisition Is Initialization (RAII) is a programming idiom used in several object-oriented languages, most prominently C++, where it originated, but also D, Ada, Vala, and Rust. The technique was developed for exception-safe resource management in C++ during 1984–89, primarily by Bjarne Stroustrup and Andrew Koenig, and the term itself was coined by Stroustrup. RAII is generally pronounced as an initialism, sometimes pronounced as "R, A, double I". In RAII, holding a resource is tied to object lifetime: resource allocation (acquisition) is done during object creation (specifically...
 
@nick My Little RAII: Destructor is Magic
 
@nick The Boehm GC is one of them.
 
1:15 AM
wait is memory freed once the program leaves a certain scope?
 
@nick uh, what kind of memory?
 
@nick Maybe. Code snippets would be useful here.
 
or do those variables within that scope remain forever, unable to be free
 
Yes, once you stop using new
 
@Blob the stack heap memory ofc
 
1:16 AM
well, stuff on the stack would be. heap or any other section, no.
 
@nick Objects of automatic storage duration are destroyed upon exit from the scope in which they are defined. [But that's simplifying quite a bit--in particular, some temporaries are destroyed at the end of the full expression in which they're defined, some that are used to initialize references have their lifetime extended to the lifetime of the reference they initialize, and so on].
 
@nick Variables have a definite lifetime.
 
unless you manually free it, or, you know, destructors..
 
hm ok
 
is this @Cicada?
"Guys how do i manipulate the stack heap with c++" makes me think Cicada
 
1:19 AM
nah just a somewhat failed trolling attempt
honestly thats the first time i've used either of those terms in a sentence
I think i'll go back go javascript now :)
 
It's technically not a sentence
 
well if stack was an adjective maybe
 
It needs to end with a period to be a sentence.
 
@Cicada Does it really?
No, it does not!
2
 
lol;
 
1:22 AM
@JerryCoffin +1
 
@JerryCoffin That's a question
@JerryCoffin And an exclamation
~not sentences~
 
question and exclamations are both subclasses of sentence, i'll have you know
 
know the difference
 
@nick you tried to pretend comprehension too much
 
even the javascript guy knows
 
1:23 AM
@nick inheritance is terrible
 
to be honest JS's prototype system still confuses the crap out of me
 
@Cicada thats just like, your opinion man
 
and the only correct one I'm afraid
 
@Mgetz me too honestly
 
@Cicada *if over used!
 
1:24 AM
s/over //
 
i don't get the hate for inheritence..
multiple inheritance is bad, yeah, but just inheritance?
 
@Cicada there are valid reasons to use inheritance
 
@Blob What is bad about multiple inheritance?
 
just because you don't agree doesn't mean they aren't valid
 
@Blob you have to re-write all methods otherwise it is bad practice
 
1:25 AM
you know Hitler also thought exterminating the Jews had valid reasons. z
just because you don't agree doesn't mean they aren't valid.
 
@Cicada So your position is that an interrogative sentence is not a sentence?
 
@LucDanton often composition is nicer
 
@Cicada this man just played the hitler card
 
@Cicada have you argued with us?
 
automatically lost the argument
 
1:26 AM
seriously...
 
@Blob Why does this argument apply to multiple inheritance and not inheritance?
 
@JerryCoffin My position is currently seated on my chair
@nick Thanks for bailing out so easily
 
even martin Luther started at "Oh they can be reasoned with" and ended up "Kill 'em all"
 
@LucDanton i've seen more valid uses of inheritance than multiple inheritance :|
 
Then you haven't coded for long!
 
1:27 AM
@Cicada Okay, so you believe that an interrogative sentence is not a sentence?
 
@Blob Is that relevant to the question?
 
@JerryCoffin Those aren't beliefs, just well informed opinions. I am atheist.
 
everybody back off, this guy is an atheist
 
@nick right Dawkins...
 
@LucDanton my (limited) experience suggests that good usage of inheritance is more common than multiple inheritance...?
 
1:28 AM
Keyword: limited
 
i feel like i'm being backed into a corner
 
why would they let you subclass things in C++ if it was bad practice?
 
@Cicada I guess that idea of "well informed" fits with schools turning out highly educated and well informed graduates (who don't know how to read, write, or do even the simplest mathematics).
 
get rekt kids
 
My not so limited experience says: that there are valid uses. But try something else first, but don't invent workarounds to avoid it
 
1:29 AM
@nick they let you do everything in C++
 
@Blob I don’t see how that says anything about multiple inheritance. Single inheritance, perhaps (empiricism aside).
 
@nick Poor argument--C++ allows a whole lot of things nobody would reasonably encourage.
 
@nick irrelevant
 
@LucDanton i don't consider multiple inheritance itself "bad", just almost all possible uses of it
 
inheritance is bad practice, use objective-c categories instead
 
1:30 AM
@JerryCoffin Is there a point you're trying to make
 
5 mins ago, by Blob
multiple inheritance is bad, yeah, but just inheritance?
Can you clarify your premise then?
 
@Cicada Yes. Your statement was false and showed that you were either uninformed or blatantly lying.
 
> multiple inheritance is often a terrible idea, yeah, but just inheritance?
 
@LucDanton in school they teach you to make large object hierarchies, these are bad because everything does not inherit from object
they are very specific objects
 
is there a way to make patch output useful diagnostics
 
1:31 AM
@Mgetz Are you speaking for Blob?
 
@JerryCoffin Which one could it be??????????
 
and unless you really need to treat your cat the same as your dog... don't use inheritance
 
useful as in actually telling me what went wrong
 
@LucDanton maybe, I'm too lazy to fix it
 
@Mgetz That's dangerously parallel with many sexist arguments I can read on online boards
 
1:32 AM
@Mgetz I really don’t appreciate unsolicited 'explanations'.
 
i came in here for a few minutes and started a war
 
@Cicada Social Justice Coder?
 
@nick Hint: you didn't.
 
@Cicada you must google Godwin's Law
 
I don't use Google
 
1:33 AM
@Cicada Note that this is an inclusive or, and until or unless you show evidence to the contrary, the reasonable conclusion is that you're uninformed and dishonest.
 
Ad insectem attacks now?
Pretty low blow Jarry
 
cicada is the troll i always wanted to be
6
 
@LucDanton At this rate this might be true.
 
@Rapptz ISTR using git for this, but I don’t recall the details.
 
@Cicada Not at all (and reflecting another subject area of which you're clearly ignorant :-).
 
1:35 AM
Your unbalanced parentheses don't affect me
 
Contemplating inserting the patches manually.
 
the dilemma of placing an emoticon within parentheses..
 
The correct spelling is "dilemna"
 
@Cicada Truly sad that despite proclaiming atheism, you turn around and display beliefs about all sorts of things, most of them sheer nonsense (including the notion that a colon and/or dash can somehow imbalance parentheses).
 
@Cicada i just googled it to double check my spelling i could've sworn i got it right..
 
1:37 AM
i can't tell who's trolling who
 
@Blob Cicada's trying. I'm succeeding (without even trying).
 
@Cicada its definitely dillemma
 
@JerryCoffin Me being athiest is my private concern and I'd appreciate you not to attack my religion, thanks. It has no place in your argumentation whatsoever.
 
well played sir
 
@Cicada You're the one who brought it into the argument. If it had no place here, you shouldn't have done so.
 
1:39 AM
An attempt at reverse psychology I see
 
Morning.
 
@MarkGarcia Run.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit mommy and daddy are arguing, go back to your room
 
I am not atheist, I am agnostic but this organizer in an atheist organization always try to rope me into all those events he co-organize. I have made this promise to myself: I will stop being a push-over & be a shitty person even to people who I know & have met a couple of times.
 
That's why "Morning." ;)
 
1:41 AM
This is a crappy world, shitty person tends to win
I am still not as tough as I want to be
I still have way too many people who wants me to do all sorts of things
 
@Cicada Nope. It seems unlike it would work in this situation. Reverse psychology depends on the subject having the intelligence to recognize the apparent direction, and intentionally reverse it (and is, therefore, contraindicated when one's opponent appears to lack the intelligence and education to recognize and reverse a direction).
 
Maybe if I become shittier, less people would want to be associated with me & that would be awesome.
 
I don't know why this isn't working :v
Am I misunderstanding the -p option in patch?
 
@JerryCoffin Let us agree to disagree. You will probably disagree but one side agreeing is enough anyway.
 
@chmod711telkitty People are countable, so that should be "fewer" instead of "less".
 
1:44 AM
@chmod711telkitty ... find new friends?
 
not friends, my friends are awesome
those are just acquaintances
 
@chmod711telkitty you're welcome
i do my best
 
I like how the only thing --verbose adds in patch is this useless line:
Hmm...  Looks like a unified diff to me...
 
@Cicada "one side agreeing" is pretty much a tautology (i.e., they wouldn't be one side if they didn't agree).
 
@JerryCoffin But if you disagree to "let us agree to disagree" then you are agreeing.
 
1:47 AM
@chmod711telkitty what happened bro?
@Cicada Wrong.
 
Thanks for agreeing
It seems we're all on the same page!
 
@DonLarynx 1) I am a chicken chick 2) nothing happened, just a few acquaintances want me to do things for them after I have already helped them out a couple of times. My friends told me to not be a push-over.
 
> Uncaught TypeError: _this._router.nagivate is not a function
nagivate
well done
 
@chmod711telkitty Selective incompetence beats reluctance nearly every time--screw things up horribly for people a few times, and they'll almost certainly quit asking you to help them out.
 
I generally avoid abusive people
 
1:53 AM
What are you doing here then
 
But I give people 1-2 chances, if they don't change, I will move on
 
@Cicada Nagivate would mean "to turn into a nag. To make shrewish and disagreeable." The more common spelling is "marry".
 
Jerry Christmas and Marry New Year
 
It's just now that I've realized how funny it is that STL's creating MinGW distros.
 
2:01 AM
really?
 
I didn't find the connection back then. I don't know why...
 
@Cicada Just another proof that Oracle listens.
 
@Cicada Hippodrome favicon. COINCIDENCE?
 
k
I don't care anymore.
Maybe another day.
 
2:13 AM
@LucDanton I think not!
 
I wonder whether someone is actually called New Year, like 'New' as the first name, & 'Year' as the last name
also that time of the month, I might be sentimental
Am I the only one who thinks that tech entrepreneurs tend to die early? Maybe if you want to have happy & long life, don't be a rock star or tech entrepreneur
 
2:30 AM
@chmod711telkitty There are almost certainly at least a few cases of more or less the opposite: people who had various signs that they were likely to have short lives being driven by that to over-achieve during the time they had.
 
2:42 AM
@JerryCoffin need examples, please quote with names & references :p
 
Can't sleep
 
> A special mention goes to the freenode.net ##C++ IRC channel, members of which are known for mercilessly tearing apart every snippet of code you might care to show them. Funny how harsh critique makes good programmers.
Sounds like the lounge.
 
@StackedCrooked They're harsh. We're informed (and harsh).
 
RIP
 
std::harsh
 
2:47 AM
@MarkGarcia lol
 
@Jefffrey I recommend studying overload resolution rules in the C++ standard. If those don't put to you sleep, nothing will.
 
@Rapptz WTF Skype.
 
ikr
I hate Skype.
 
@Rapptz Also, WTF MSE/Windows Defender. Mine takes up 50 MB on this laptop.
 
@Rapptz new task manager looks cool
 
2:49 AM
Well I guess you have 16 GB of RAM.
 
I do.
@StackedCrooked Best Windows 8 feature!
 
@MarkGarcia 16 GB is the new 8 GB.
 
@StackedCrooked That and the copy/move dialog are my most favorite in Windows 8.
 
Windows Defender took ~50% CPU and 1 GB RAM earlier.
I don't know why.
 
Windows Defender ramps up when you're doing IO. They should improve on that.
 
2:51 AM
speaking of it..
why does it do that?
 
It's scanning what you're bringing in ram
 
I put exceptions to my compiler and build directories. It helps.
 
lemme google how to tell it to fuck off
 
At least it keeps itself shut up compared with all the AVs out there.
 
So far my gcc 5.1.0 build seems to be compiling and linking..
 
3:03 AM
@JerryCoffin eh
Let's try with this talk.
 
@Jefffrey I concur with Jerry.
 
oh god no
openssl is part of the build?
RIP
 
3:17 AM
audio is good, slides are readable, black board is ... ah well I guess you can't have it all :D
 
Recently someone I talked to had the idea of reverse engineering a seed out of a sequence of numbers or data set for a pseudo random number generator. Is this possible, if so, worth doing? The idea is that you could store data sets as seeds rather than store the entire data set.

Strange concept, I've never heard of anyone doing this before, so I don't think it is possible, or if it is, it's too difficult to create.
 
@FatalSleep It's called compression
Strange concept I know
 
@Rapptz Solid engineering.
 
status: RESOLVED INVALID
 
3:24 AM
@Cicada Is Bogozip the one where you roll a seed, check what is generated, and reroll until it matches? :)
 
oh I thought that was a different bugzilla nope
 
@Cicada not compressing the data. Rather literally, for example generating a 32-bit seed which can be used to regenerate the data set.
 
that's GCC's
 
@FatalSleep That's exactly compression
> User-agent: Mutt/1.5.20 (2009-06-14)
 
@Cicada Hmm... I guess.
 
3:25 AM
@LucDanton Pizip is the one where your compressed data is an offset in Pi to the original, uncompressed data
 
I think I'll just skip the ncurses build
don't really know why it's there
 
@Cicada Thanks for the answer.
 
Np. Your decompression function is some generator to which you're trying to find the input (ie, the compressed data), instead of going the other way around. But the end result is the same: compression.
 
wait g++ -E no longer gives the ugly # stuff?
 
@Cicada That’s the decompression function!
 
3:30 AM
Right
 
@Rapptz cba to try, is it important?
 
I'm assuming this is why ncurses is failing
 
@Rapptz It should, no?
 
@Rapptz They could be here, but different. I don’t even know how they work.
If there is a stack structure I failed to notice it.
 
ncurses is definitely making assumptions of the preprocessor so 5.1.0 must have changed cpp.
wonder what changed
hell yeah
I got an ICE when compiling gdb
 
3:39 AM
why the f does gcc require ncurses
 
iunno
oh misleading log
 
@Rapptz I’m sure removing the ICE patch would solve this.
 
I think -flto is what is causing this failure
 
…what? Do you have Gold?
 
no
g++ -s -m64 lto_int.o lto_test.o -flto -o lto_test.exe
lto1.exe: internal compiler error: in read_cgraph_and_symbols, at lto/lto.c:2960
Please submit a full bug report,
with preprocessed source if appropriate.
 
3:44 AM
I think -flto does do some stuff if you don’t have gold but it’s not nearly as beneficial
 
this is what the log shows anyway
RESOLVED FIXED
for 5.2 though
dang
 
well that sucks
 
the fix is really simple it seems
so I could patch it
but then it's not really 5.1 eh
is that an ethics problem? iunno how these things work
 
posted on May 05, 2015 by Herb Sutter

Today it was my pleasure to announce a financial assistance policy for ISO C++ meetings. You can read about it at the announcement here.Filed under: Uncategorized

 
3:53 AM
wat
 
@Rapptz nah
although do go ahead and call it 'a GCC 5 port' or something
 
gee sea sea fünf
 
well I'm too lazy to recompile anyway
so this bug is staying
 
WONTFIX
 
In any case... success!
 
3:59 AM
yay
 

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