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11:00 AM
I don't know.
I like how Hashi from Tofugu puts it: "I can understand the rationale behind Han Unification but, since I have the emotional capacity of a child and just want things to work, I’m going to say that it’s dumb and stupid and I hate it." tofugu.com/2012/04/04/…
 
Evening guis
 
@Ell As I understand it the classic rebuttal is: what is a Japanese text discussing Chinese writing to do?
 
Ell
Use different fonts I guess :S
 
That is out-of-band information.
You cannot deny that the distinction between the two makes up the meaning of such text.
You're basically moving the meaning out of the text itself into its presentation.
 
hey amazon's layout changed
 
11:06 AM
@R.MartinhoFernandes Is that a consideration in favour of or against the current situation? (Or something else?)
 
Ell
@R.MartinhoFernandes right, which is where it is
 
Oh, reacting to 'fonts' perhaps?
 
Ell
> This process was well-understood by the actual national standards participants from Japan, Korea, China, and other countries, who all along have been doing the major work involved in minimizing the amount of duplicate encoding of what all the committee members fully agree is the same character.
 
@LucDanton I don't know. I know a bunch of facts that relate to the situation with Han but I haven't sorted them out in my head to the point I can form an opinion about it.
 
Ell
It says here that the committee members fully agree that they are the same character
 
11:08 AM
@LucDanton Yeah.
 
Ell
which means that they only differ in how they are presented
 
@Ell No, they differ in meaning too.
 
@LucDanton Mostly historical interoperability reasons. More of those things are not encoded anymore (or at least only very rare exceptions).
 
Which do allow a text in a Latin script to discuss those very ligatures.
 
Ell
11:09 AM
@LucDanton I don't know to be honest
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Related to no opinion yet: it’s a real clusterfuck isn’t it?
 
@LucDanton Yes.
 
such a beautiful song
 
Ell
@R.MartinhoFernandes Oh right
 
Ell
11:10 AM
I don't know, I guess I'm not qualified to form an opinion
I would instinctively keep my opinion as what it is now though
 
@Ell And they differ in meaning in a way unlike the way Latin script letters differ from language to language.
 
I’m not convinced 'out-of-band' / 'in-band' is an easy distinction to make. I’m not convinced duplicating tons of codepoints is helpful. I’m not convinced in-band, stateful markers are convenient to use programmatically, much less with a human interface. Besieged by suck from all angles.
 
@AlexM. Bohemian Rhapsody ftw
 
Sure, "u" represents different phonemes in different languages, but ideographs represent different words in different languages.
 
11:12 AM
u wot
 
@BartekBanachewicz do you know of any books or papers that talk about rendering engine implementation, specifically sorting and binning draw calls and all that?
 
Actually, they can represent entities of different categories in different languages. One ideograph may be a word in Chinese, but merely a morpheme in Japanese.
 
Ell
@R.MartinhoFernandes Is the meaning relevant if they are both the same ideograph?
 
Ell
Hmm amazon links should be oneboxed
 
11:13 AM
@Prismatic I'd reply with typical "if you have to ask then you're not ready". There are some "engine design" books out there. Never found them itneresting
 
No they shouldn't
 
@Ell Are they the same ideograph, though?
 
I personally liked Game Programming Gems
a lot of math there
useful stuff
 
@BartekBanachewicz What do you mean by 'if you have to ask, you're not ready'? Also the engine design book previews I see on Google and all are very high level
 
Geme prorgamming
 
11:14 AM
as in, they don't talk about specific implementations very often
 
@Ell They may look the same, but isn't the idea they represent what makes them an ideograph?
 
@Prismatic because, uh, it's your job to figure out that
 
Ell
@R.MartinhoFernandes I'm not sure :S
 
and Game Programming Gems is awesome, but they are just collections of articles to solve specific problems to do specific effects and stuff
 
Don't write engines
 
11:15 AM
@Ell I mean, if you go on looks, capital Latin A and Greek alpha are the same.
 
Evolve engines from games
 
If you're stuck on design then you're probably overengineering a generic solution you don't need and likely use only once anyway
 
Or worse, capital Latin P and Greek rho (more or less the equivalent of R) look the same.
 
I need a renderer that can render a modern UI and also some very basic 3d stuff
 
11:16 AM
Define modern UI
 
Stuff you see on HMIs and I guess mobile devices these days as opposed to forms based UIs
 
@CatPlusPlus glossy icons
 
Also resolution independent UI elements
 
lol
 
Specifically things like SDF for text
 
11:17 AM
That's still forms based UIs
I don't know what HMI is
Also Chromium
 
Ell
@R.MartinhoFernandes I'm just going on that text I quoted from the unicode webpage really
 
ATMs, ticket machines, kiosks and all
 
That's hardly modern by any stretch
It's been mostly the same forever
 
I don't want to use CEF. I have my own UI middleware stuff already... just need to take care of submitting stuff to a renderer
 
@CatPlusPlus Human Machine Interface. -- IOW, it is UI.
 
11:19 AM
@Ell Yeah, but AFAIK a significant part of the argument hangs on different wishy-washy ideas of what a character is.
 
Also mobile games are not real and touch screens are dumb :smugdog:
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes When isn’t it? :)
 
@CatPlusPlus your not real
 
u wot
Ugh I have to go back to job project
I don't wanna
 
11:21 AM
I really dunno, anyway. I don't think the situation will change. I don't like it, but understand the reasoning behind it.
 
Got an empty pull request
How do you do this
 
my earphones are here yay
I can music while on the road again
 
The fact that I can argue both sides in a way that I find convincing makes me rather neutral about it. I.e., both sides are wrong :P
 
> to the LUA scripting engine
LUA IS NOT AN ACRONYM GOD
 
11:24 AM
JAVA
 
Ell
do you really care that much? :P
 
HASKELL
@Ell OCD
 
@Ell it's fucking annoying
 
@BartekBanachewicz GOD IS NOT AN ACRONYM BRATEK
 
@CatPlusPlus lol
 
11:24 AM
@CatPlusPlus That's not an acronym either.
 
Ell
@BartekBanachewicz you're not real
 
Even this acronym
 
@Ell how do you know
 
Have any of you come across a paper or a thesis and implemented something from it in your software?
 
11:25 AM
@Prismatic yeah
 
@Ell you're mom is fat
 
Ell
bcos "your not real" doesn't make much sense
 
@BartekBanachewicz It feels awesome when I get something like that to wokr
 
A wokr is a person that cooks with woks.
 
That something is a thesis doesn't mean it's hard to implement
 
11:26 AM
@Prismatic yes
 
Also every algorithm you know by name ever
 
@CatPlusPlus The part I like is coming across something academic and turning it into something useful and practical for me
The difficulty bit is orthogonal... it might be really easy to implement or mind numbingly difficult.
 
Contrary to popular belief sorting algorithms do not come from Wikipedia
6
 
@Prismatic What makes something academic?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Being a thesis, report or paper.
 
11:28 AM
Is a paper different from a blog post with the same content?
 
so, being written down in presentation form, as a document
 
what about toilet paper
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes It's typeset with Computer Modern
 
does it have any academic value
@CatPlusPlus lol
 
@BartekBanachewicz I've not (yet) implemented any algorithms described there in C++
 
11:29 AM
lol "academic value"
 
brb changing fonts on my blog
 
If you mean something that you read somewhere, yes, I've implemented many things that I've read about somewhere.
@LightnessRacesinOrbit That's a thing.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes :whoosh:
 
In academic publishing, the least publishable unit (LPU), also smallest publishable unit (SPU), minimum publishable unit (MPU), or publon, is the smallest measurable quantum of publication, the minimum amount of information that can be used to generate a publication in a peer-reviewed journal. (Maximum publishable unit and optimum publishable unit are also used.) The term is often used as a joking, ironic, or derogatory reference to the strategy of pursuing the greatest quantity of publications at the expense of their quality. Publication of the results of research is an essential part of science...
"publon"
 
Ell
@Prismatic you should read this paper @BartekBanachewicz and I collaborated on: tinyurl.com/lml329w
 
11:29 AM
Journals are shit esp in CS
 
> Bartek Bananschewitz
"Whoops"?
 
Ell
I have no idea how to spell his name :P
 
Banan
 
Ell
Brakit Banana
 
11:30 AM
@Ell It's "Boretak H. Bananachewits"
 
> Bananschewitz, B. Atomic information. Tech. Rep. 8901-3303, UCSD, May 2004.
 
I like the response time in dB.
 
lol
 
the "H" stands for "Haskell"
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes deci bounds
 
11:31 AM
@sehe boom
 
and time in connections/seconds
 
Interrupt rate in joules and distance in Celcius [sic].
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I like how dB is plotted linearlly
 
> Figure 1: A diagram plotting the relationship between our framework and event-driven theory.
 
@Ell and no realistic way to look it up
 
11:32 AM
@sehe chat is hard
 
Ell
haha
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Aren't dB normally plotted linearly?
 
Popularity of interrupts in cylinders, and distance in number of CPUs.
 
Ell
this is just hilarious
 
@BartekBanachewicz Its FRP
 
11:33 AM
Worth in buttcoins
 
@Prismatic Huh I suppose they are since they already encode the logarithmically scaling nature of the data
 
Always logscale
 
Funny thing is that's exactly how I'd expect a paper from Ell and Bardik to look
 
Fuck Apple
 
11:35 AM
I should stop.
 
I want an Apple Watch
did any of you buy one
 
I don't have an iPhone so there's that
I need to fix my swiss watch
 
Don't need an Apple Watch so I saved some money and bought a tropical island paradise instead
 
the spring needs replacement methinks
 
Ell
11:37 AM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit ahaha me too
 
@Prismatic lol apple
I really want an ubuntu phone :\
 
Why would I buy any watch let alone Apple one
 
I want a new phone and I so don't want to get something in { iOS, Android, WP }
 
@CatPlusPlus The same reason you'd buy any other Apple product; its shiny
 
Fuck apple. Who likes half eaten apples anyway
 
11:38 AM
I've only seen these 3 every day since forever
 
> warning C4346: 'std::enable_if<blah, int>::type' : dependent name is not a type
Wow, I'm impressed.
 
@AlexM. Blackberry?
 
(That means "you forgot typename" in VSish)
 
@BartekBanachewicz do they still exist? :O
hmm
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes VS2015?
 
11:39 AM
@AlexM. Yeah dude
 
@Prismatic Yeah. RC
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes And in GCCish, IIRC?
 
BB phones are kinda cool... they run on QNX and use Qt for development
 
shit why do I keep getting merge errors in files I didn't touch
fucking git
 
Blackberry vs Noobuntu
I'm gonna decide later
 
11:39 AM
shitty VCS bullshit
textual code representation idiocy strikes again
and yes I know shut up
 
lol no
 
Ell
I'm not sure if I should make constructors, destructors, operators & functions different nodes
 
@Xeo Stop propagating this myth.
 
Why is everyone making crappy languages
 
They are locked down pretty hard but the dev API is great. Its in C and you can use Qt as well. Dev tools are somewhat outdated compared to Android (gcc 4.6 last I checked) but hopefully they are using 4.8 now since I think they were going to update to that
 
11:40 AM
Can't you make blogues and games
lol "great API" "mobile" "C/C++"
 
Ell
@CatPlusPlus I'm not making a language
 
no
Windows Phone comes closest to being Not Annoying but still misses the mark by a lot
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes Hey now, I honestly didn't remember
 
@CatPlusPlus "API" --> its QNX. You get access to a bunch of sensors through C. Have you used it?
 
Applying: List now could remove object instead of removing only control.
Applying: Refactor.
Applying: Set notification only if notification is created.
Applying: Spaces.
Applying: Spaces.
 
11:42 AM
@Xeo Oh, you're right about this one.
 
god I hate this job
 
I don't care about QNX
 
I don't want to program PCs anymore
fuck that
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes hah
 
Especially don't want crappy low-level OS primitives on shitty mobile platforms
 
11:42 AM
@Prismatic "trough C"
 
I don't really see how you can get any nicer than a super clean and well documented C API tbh
 
A proper high-level C# API hth
 
@Prismatic by not using C?
 
Ell
@Prismatic a super clean and well documented c++ api
 
11:43 AM
@Ell lol
 
Ell
@Prismatic why lol?
they exist
...somewhere
 
@CatPlusPlus Can I do memory stuff with C#
6
 
C is a poor piss language in which you can't really design a reasonable API
@Prismatic no you can't
 
@Prismatic No, C# only uses disk directly. That's why it's so fast: SSDs in the cloud.
 
C APIs exist only to be wrapped at interop level
It's literally the lowest common denominator
 
11:44 AM
imma find some beautiful C api to shut you all up
 
might as well not come back at all
 
It exists for machines
 
I wonder if I can cram more bullshit into that message.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes cloud?
 
Because the only way to write not broken C code is to be a machine
 
11:44 AM
@Prismatic Ten years later... "ok guys, just keep talking"
 
@BartekBanachewicz Thanks.
 
Applying: Refactor.
 
@BartekBanachewicz the guys certainly tried with JNI
tried being the keyword
 
@BartekBanachewicz C is nice for designing ABIs, I guess.
 
Ell
I wrote a dece JNI wrapper and didn't do anything with it
 
11:46 AM
Y'all don't think that SDL has a nice api?
 
2 mins ago, by Cat Plus Plus
It's literally the lowest common denominator
 
Its so simple
 
SSDs in the cloud synergising with distributed bus interfaces to fully leverage business value of your instances
 
And that is due to its prevalence more than anything else.
 
@Ell I'm writing one now
 
11:46 AM
@Prismatic it's not simple, it's primitive
 
@Prismatic Hahaha no
 
I think its clean and easy to use. Some of the documentation is lacking though.
 
@CatPlusPlus streamline instances
wait is streamline a verb
it makes so little sense to me that I don't even know
 
Everything is a verb
 
The only thing I've come across that I don't like about C apis is how a lot of them want you to call functions with NULLs everywhere to set up some conditions or whatever. That shit is annoying
 
11:48 AM
But yes
 
@CatPlusPlus All right, that everythings, thanks
 
Ell
@AndyProwl yup
 
@CatPlusPlus go verb yourself
 
> some_sys_call(val0,NULL,val2,NULL,NULL,val3);
 
@Prismatic seriously how can you spew out things like that and "C apis are ok" in 5-minute timeframe is I don't even
 
11:49 AM
@Ell Damn it. Then "streamlined instances" should do, I guess
 
Ell
yeah :)
 
@Prismatic That's a system API, not a C API.
 
That's still C API
 
> make (an organization or system) more efficient and effective by employing faster or simpler working methods.
 
In befour everything would be better with C++ ABI
 
Ell
Why don't we explicitly version things in source code?
 
> The effect framework requires as important feature the equal treatment of effects. This
means e.g. that from the implementation point of view the shadow mapping effect and
a diffuse lighting effect must be treated equally in the source code.
 
Why don't we ask more vague questions
 
Ell
like std::v1::vector
instead of doing std::vector
 
btw "verb" is heterological /cc @R.MartinhoFernandes
 
11:52 AM
Do you treat all your features as equal citizens in your code, Lounge?
Or are you a feature-ist
 
They're all equal shittizens
 
@AndyProwl It can be autological if you verb it.
 
@Prismatic @CatPlusPlus ask and ye shall receive
 
What
Money?
Please do
 
no, questions
 
11:53 AM
@R.MartinhoFernandes It can be verbed?
 
@AndyProwl I just did?
 
I verbed your mom last night
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yeah, but is it correct English?
 
Everything is correct English as long as you want it hard enough
 
@CatPlusPlus She didn't verb me about that
 
11:54 AM
Or: the more it annoys pedants the more correct it is
 
Ell
verb is the new smurf
 
-1
Q: Can you help me!

Islam TemirbekWrite a code that asks a user to enter a positive number. After, if user enters negative it must throw an error and print “Only positive numbers must be entered!” and asks to enter again. If user enters non-numeric character a program must throw an error and print “Only digits must be entered!” a...

a help vampire. it can ask even on RU.SO
 
@AndyProwl English is a productive language and verbing seems to be a common phenomenon among its speakers.
 
I am bread
 
11:56 AM
@Abyx Why are only positive numbers allowed? Thats positiveist
 
@Abyx That was quick.
> Try a Поиск в Google
They have not finished the translation, I see.
 
yeah it's beta
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Hmm. Usually the dictionary reports both "noun" and "verb" for words than can be use as both. In this case it doesn't
 
@Ell It doesn't always make sense, it increases maintenance burden, you need to have concrete problems that it solves
 
11:59 AM
@R.MartinhoFernandes I stand corrected
 
But being a productive language means that its vocabulary is not defined merely by a set of words, but by a set of words and a set of processes for word formation.
 
Reject the dictionary dictatorship
 
Yeah, but you can't apply those process to any word
 
Sure you can
 

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