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1:00 PM
Didn't know you are so lame @sbi, there was one company I used to work for, everyone would be going home after 12 midnight after a party and some would drink until 2am. By 9am the next morning, everyone would be in the office again. You suck!
 
sbi
@TelkittytheWebDeveloper Home at 2am? Really? That late?
 
@TelkittytheWebDeveloper They were in the office, but catatonic in front of their terminals?
 
sbi
1am is when we started to look for another bar...
 
Xeo paradoxically only comes out for the questions?
 
Tea and biscuits parties do not count! :)
 
Xeo
1:01 PM
@sbi Btw, you coming to Uncon 3.1?
 
Questions are banned
 
@sbi pretty much, I would be the one heading home at 12 midnight though, so it's only from what I heard
 
@sbi Sounds like experienced developers to me:)
 
sbi
1 min ago, by sbi
1am is when we started to look for another bar...
 
Ven
@Morwenn does popular_sort just google to see which algorithm is the most popular these days, and use that? :P
 
1:02 PM
@Ven It's poplar, not popular :p
 
I forgot how to markdown
 
@HubertApplebaum you old noob
 
Ven
@Morwenn hey, don't wreck my joke just for the sake of it :[
@HubertApplebaum such a mistake
 
I added a note in the wiki to warn users that there are also useless algorithms in the library.
 
@HubertApplebaum [label](link)
 
1:03 PM
It's the Alzheimer settling it
@набиячлэвэлиь thank you young man
 
@Ven It couldn't search the web, I don't know how to web with C++ x)
 
TIL Ebola is a country
 
@MartinJames pretty much. In fact I have had countless exams, job interviews after a few drinks the previous night. I am an highly functioning alcoholic :p In fact I could drink until 2am then drive 150km the next morning, starting at 6am.
 
sbi
@MartinJames We had some guys from the merkin office over until last Thursday, and went to a pool place with them on Thursday night. They were all chickens, though, and left around midnight, on account of them having to go to the airport at 6 in the morning. Two of us Berliners ended up in a bar, and I was home at 4am. Got up at 5:45 and managed to whip the kids out the door, had an appointment with one of my sons' teacher and with my dentist, and worked in the afternoon.
 
@HubertApplebaum TIL your mum is a country
 
1:05 PM
@sbi Meh.. merkins. Lemme guess, as soon as they got into their business class seats, they were at the free scotch.
 
-1
Q: Why does passing arguments by reference work in C++ the way it does?

user2738748Let's say I have a function: void function(int& i){}; and a variable: int j = 2; I know that I can use my function: function(j); But it is inconsistent: the compiler should notice that the function expects a reference, not a normal variable and that I tried to use a normal variable ins...

 
@sbi You went out with chickens?
 
Ven
@Morwenn I bet you also use std::distance! Heathen! :P
 
Xeo
@RyanO'Hara That's great for VB.NET
 
^ What a stupid question.
 
Ven
1:05 PM
@fredoverflow you never answered me :\
 
@RyanO'Hara Excuse C++ for using a smarter abstraction.
 
sbi
@melak47 Haha!
 
Quick poll: is it considered rude to announce you want to fart when you feel as such?
 
@RyanO'Hara that's just silly, an integer could mean anything! An iterator is much safer :D
 
@Ven What was the question? Just in case, I won't marry you, sorry ;)
 
1:06 PM
@Ven Yeah, from time to time, to make sure that algorithms also work with bidirectional and forward iterators, but then I add a note to warn that the algorithm might be slow.
 
sbi
@MartinJames Nah, those were the grunts. Rather decent guys, most of them. It's C level management (most are Merkin now) that's annoying in this company.
 
@sbi lol
 
Ven
@fredoverflow nah, about your lecture, is there an english version somewhere?
 
@melak47 well VB.NET will also let you pass a Double by default
 
sbi
@TonyTheLion What can you do when you work in a hen house?
 
1:07 PM
it’s very versatile in that regard
 
Ven
@Morwenn Since I do ++it, I don't use std::distance :P
 
@Ven No there isn't. Would you like me to a record an English YouTube version of it?
 
user1804599
@Ven Just learn German, you twat.
 
Ven
@fredoverflow It'd be amazing, I don't speak german/dutch/...
 
@Ven Are you really that interested in virtual machines and bytecodes and such?
 
1:07 PM
@Ven Try to implement a cycle sort and tell me again you never need to compute the distance between two iterators :D
 
lol, vb.net
 
Ven
@Morwenn Why'd I do that?
 
user1804599
I like J1MP and J0MP.
 
can't yt auto generate & translate subtitles/captions? :p
 
@ElimGarak Don’t laugh, it has XML literals
 
1:08 PM
@Ven Excellent question. Don't, unless you need to write to Flash memory.
 
@RyanO'Hara lol
 
Ven
@fredoverflow I implemented (or tried to, at least) 2 vms, a few interpreters, I work on other "big" compilers, but these are what other people call "transpilers"
 
@MadameElyse I'm pretty sure you used to think they were silly ;)
 
Ven
@fredoverflow so really, a lot. my last attempt was a VM in rust, and one in racket, fwiw.
 
user1804599
I did. I still do. Silly is fun.
 
1:09 PM
@Ven In that case, I would probably bore you to death. The video is about really basic things like conditional jumps.
 
Fuck, my coffee tastes horrible today.
 
@MadameElyse, I do not agree with you about Perl
 
user1804599
@RyanO'Hara Ok!
 
@sehe But my object doesn't have a default constructor...
 
user1804599
That's fine, even though you are wrong.
 
sbi
1:09 PM
@fredoverflow ISTR C# requiring you to explicitly mark an argument you pass to a function as reference, when the function expects a referenced argument. (And for a language that lacks true constness, that even makes kinda sense.)
 
@KaareZ → 29 messages moved to C++
 
> sehe has invited you to join C++. See your invitations.
pls no
 
@fredoverflow You authored a whole video on conditional jumps? Does it not get a bit boring after the first two points are covered?
 
Python is pretty great whereas Perl programmers can’t even punctuate properly
 
Time to go on weekend, bye clise
 
Ven
1:10 PM
@fredoverflow Probably not, but oh well – I realize how much effort that would be!
 
user1804599
Syntax is the least of my worries.
 
@sehe you moved my "there's a C++ room" message to the C++ room? lol
 
“Just another Perl hacker,”
what is this dangly little comma
 
user1804599
Perl Girl
 
@melak47 Oh yeah. You can do a better job?
 
Ven
1:11 PM
@MadameElyse he dislikes perl¿!
 
People who refer to themselves as hackers need to be lined up and shot.
 
The point is: either avoid the noise, or I'll move it along with the context.
 
@ElimGarak lolwhy
 
@MartinJames Watch it and decide for yourself ;)
 
@sehe I don't mind, it's just going to be super useful there :D
 
1:12 PM
There's no use in kindly telling the people to go elsewhere if in the process we create more noise
 
@Ven I love how you sometimes stalk my commits :D
 
sbi
@Ven "Transpiler" sounds like something rightfold would be interested in.
 
@Ven Well, since I don't cut my videos and I usually don't do second takes, it would take approx. 15 minutes ;)
 
sbi
I'm not gonna go there, @sehe!
@melak47 LOL!
 
I didn't expect you to. You know I don't control the invites
 
user1804599
1:13 PM
@Ven It's basically about how jump and loop instructions are executed and how stack-based machines work.
 
Perl is awesome.
 
@sbi The answer is: no I didn't. I moved a noisy conversation
 
user1804599
Douglas Crockford is a moron.
 
@fredoverflow Maybe I'll author a video about unconditional jumps, just for the other POV:)
 
1:13 PM
So many grandpas in software engineering.
 
yeppppppppp
 
Ven
@Morwenn I only stalk pull requests (but I read everything)
 
@MadameElyse (… is a crockpot?)
 
sbi
@sehe Don't be so defensive. All is well, bear. You did well. We just feel like laughing anyway.
 
(yum!)
 
1:14 PM
@sbi Ok!
 
@MartinJames if/else needs an unconditional jump to jump over the else block. Would be nice if you covered that ;)
 
@sehe <3
 
@fredoverflow lol
 
sbi
@MartinJames He probably didn't cover the subject serially, but jumped around a bit.
 
@sbi hehe..
 
1:14 PM
@Ven How do you find the time? Also, I don't even always understand what I write, so...
 
Ven
@Morwenn you know I do pretty big amounts of open source (well, not that much, really)
 
1 message moved to bin
 
Ven
I just do that during food break at $work, and at home.
 
I should have known better
 
1:16 PM
@Ven Yeah, I realized yesterday that you were involved in big projects.
 
@sehe Isn’t this irritating?
 
Ven
@wilx @MadameElyse I'm surprised you didn't star it this time
 
@MadameElyse How come you dislike him? Because of his Monad video?
 
What’s the point of having that message for one message
 
@RyanO'Hara Isn't that a rhetorical? Aren't you procrastinating?
 
user1804599
1:17 PM
@fredoverflow Yes.
 
Just ignore it exists, like we do with Matrix 2 and 3.
 
Ven
@fredoverflow okay, then I'd appreciate it :P
@sbi and has been already :P
@fredoverflow You don't want to start a debate :P
 
In computer science, a Pratt parser is an improved recursive descent parser that associates semantics with tokens instead of grammar rules. It was first described by Vaughan Pratt in the 1973 paper "Top down operator precedence", and was treated in much more depth in a Masters Thesis under his supervision. Pratt designed the parser originally to implement the CGOL programming language. Douglas Crockford used the technique to build JSLint. == Notes == == See also == Operator Precedence Parser == External links == Pratt Parsers: Expression Parsing Made Easy...
 
Matrix sucks in general.
 
@MadameElyse ^ Are you familiar with those?
 
Ven
1:18 PM
Douglas Crockford is a moron because he thinks insults are a correct way of communication. (and also because he sucks at programming)
 
@fredoverflow A term coined by Chris Pratt
 
user1804599
@fredoverflow Nope.
 
@sehe I’m honestly not sure. Work is being done. It is set to finish 3 hours from now. I’m obviously not going to sleep tonight anyway.
 
@Ven I think you have Douglas Crockford confused with Linus Torvalds.
 
They all suck
 
1:18 PM
@RyanO'Hara You 3D print your assignments? :)
 
Nobody sucks me. :(
 
@wilx get ripped
 
@MadameElyse They sound really interesting, and Douglas walks through a practical example in the Syntaxation video.
 
@Ven #no-irony
 
Ven
1:19 PM
@sehe why hashtag when you can tag?
 
I think I haven ever heard of Douglas Crockford before today.
 
sbi
@fredoverflow "Vorklausurpanikpraktikum" – LOL!
 
@sehe Hm! There”s an idea. A 3D-printed representation of this projection from a point to a plane could be more interesting to look at!
 
> X is a moron because he uses insults
2
 
@MadameElyse I shall remember use Modern::Perl;
 
user1804599
1:20 PM
You should. It's great.
 
Ven
@sehe Yeah. I don't like to waste time on people that insult me. Is that a rare condition, doctor?
 
user1804599
 
@Ven Douglas Crockford insulted you?
 
Ven
@RyanO'Hara thousands, hundreds of millions of times.
 
@Ven I’ll bite: how
 
Ven
1:22 PM
@RyanO'Hara don't bite, the dogs did nothing wrong
 
user1804599
Douglas Cockford
 
@Ven How did Douglas Crockford insult you?
 
Ven
@RyanO'Hara by biting my dogs
 
It’s quite an achievement to insult someone thousands, hundreds of millions of times.
Doubly so since it’s not even a number of times.
 
Ven
Douglas, not Doubly.
 
1:24 PM
It’s pronounced “dub-lee”. I’m writing phonetically.
 
user1804599
AngularJS is so shit.
 
@MadameElyse 1.x or 2.x
 
@MadameElyse It needs a more rounded approach.
 
user1804599
@RyanO'Hara Both.
 
user1804599
All this mutability stuff is a pain.
 
user1804599
1:26 PM
Also global variables.
 
user1804599
Lack of reusability.
 
@MadameElyse Have you tried HTML?
 
user1804599
Yes????????
 
Did it… not work
 
user1804599
It is insufficient.
 
1:27 PM
Are you sure? Fully 60% of uses of Angular can be replaced by HTML.
 
@MadameElyse Where there ever plans to replace JavaScript completely in the browser world? Like, not transpiling to JavaScript, but building a new language/engine/plarform/whatever from scratch?
 
user1804599
No idea.
 
@MadameElyse Cougars Dogfroth
 
user1804599
But the problem is not the language JavaScript.
 
@fredoverflow Specifically in the past? There is a current plan.
 
1:28 PM
@RyanO'Hara What's the current plan?
 
Well, not replace it completely, but WebAssembly is a thing
 
user1804599
It is fine since you can just work around its problems by compiling to it or interpreting in it.
 
user1804599
The real problem is with all the APIs, and all the morons designing new APIs, and having another language doesn't fix that.
 
WebAssembly or wasm is an experimental efficient low-level programming language for in-browser client-side scripting, which is currently in development. Its initial aim is to support compilation from C/C++, though other source languages are also intended to be supported. WebAssembly is a portable abstract syntax tree which is designed to be faster to parse than JavaScript, as well as faster to execute. The initial implementation of WebAssembly support in browsers will be based on asm.js and PNaCl. After the minimum viable product (MVP) release, there are plans to support garbage collection which...
interesting
> The initial implementation of WebAssembly support in browsers will be based on asm.js
lol so the bytecode will be transpiled to JavaScript? :)
Also, no Garbage Collection? weird
 
user1804599
Front-end web dev is the drain of the software industry.
 
1:30 PM
Meaning what?
Sucking up too much programming effort?
 
user1804599
When you are incapable of anything else, it is what you do.
 
ah
I had a website on geocities once, does that count as web dev? ;)
It was like <html><head><title>OMG my own website!!!</title></head><body> LINKS FOR DAYS </body></html>
 
sbi
@fredoverflow You aren't old enough to even know Geocities.
 
does anyone remember Foursquare
 
@sbi You probably underestimate my oldness.
 
sbi
1:33 PM
@fredoverflow I have just looked at (some of) your lecture. You seem to lack gray hair.
 
I was born in the seventies.
 
sbi
@fredoverflow Really?
 
Yes. Late seventies.
 
@RyanO'Hara A bit part in 'A Tale of Two Geocities'?
 
Ven
@fredoverflow Like Dart, PNaCl, WebAssembly? ECMAScript4?
 
1:35 PM
in Discussion between grunk and sehe, 18 secs ago, by sehe
@grunk And that should make it pretty obvious: http://coliru.stacked-crooked.com/a/39cebd7a2dd223d4
Is that too passive-aggressive of a code-fix?
 
Ven
too nice to fix it
 
@Ven I thought Dart transpiled to JavaScript?
 
@Ven It's not a fix. But it shows the problem he's having
 
@fredoverflow How is it improved ?
 
Ven
@fredoverflow the plan was to have it as a VM in chrome. The chrome guys just said "lol nope, you are retarded; trying to fit 2 VMs in a browser". I think there's a dart-chromium, where instead of the JS VM, you have Dart
 
sbi
1:36 PM
TIL Fred is 40.
 
@fredoverflow Heh. That sounds about what I had. But I also had an awesome background and a flying pigeon GIF!
 
@sbi Well, not quite, just a couple more years ;)
 
user1804599
@Ven There already are a bunch. JS, JS regex, TrueType, ...
 
Ven
@fredoverflow sorry, it's actually called "Dartium" dartlang.org/tools/dartium
 
sbi
1:37 PM
@fredoverflow Not too many left.
 
user1804599
Dart is shit.
 
@sbi Oh, wow.
 
@MadameElyse that's objectively false
 
Shit is Dart.
 
sbi
1 min ago, by fredoverflow
@sbi Well, not quite, just a couple more years ;)
 
user1804599
1:38 PM
It is a prime example of the front-end webdev culture: even though we know our decisions are retarded, we make them anyway because it'll make noobs feel better.
 
@ElimGarak da fuck
 
@jaggedSpire Most adorable wooden shack ever <3
 
@sbi Couple as in 2?
 
@ElimGarak ah. Yes, agreed
 
user1804599
Other examples include TypeScript, Bootstrap and ES6 promises.
 
sbi
1:40 PM
@wilx How would I know? He hasn't shown me his birth certificate.
 
user1804599
One by one they go against programming principles defined in the last hundred years because it makes it "easier" to "get started", or "more intuitive".
 
sbi
BTW, @fred, what I see when I see your lecture is some nerd looking at his computer, and rarely ever interacting with the audience. I consider this bad. When talking about what's on the screen, I try to use the exact screen my audience is seeing (the one projected overhead), and divide my attention between the audience and what they are seeing. If you do everything on your screen, you hardly notice even when half the room is asleep already.
 
Ven
@MadameElyse TypeScript is miles ahead Dart.
Dart doesn't type check because "type checks are only useful as documentation, and wouldn't help us speed up the VM anyway"
 
Fred Tinkle
 
Ven
(which is a blatant lie, but hey, who am I?)
 
1:44 PM
@sbi You have no idea how fucking big the screen is, it's one of the biggest lecture halls we have :) I wouldn't be able to recognize anything, and I would have to tilt my head like 70-80 degress up.
 
sbi
@sehe What's with her? Just a cold or something worse? And what about that new job thing? I didn't even know you had quit. Everything OK over there?
@fredoverflow Yeah, the biggest audience I have spoken to professionally was probably 30 something people. :)
 
I have 500 students.
Also, interaction with the real screen wouldn't be captured in the video, which would be bad.
 
sbi
Yes, I agree that things might be different in your case. Still, it does look bad to only ever see the top of your head while you're talking to me.
 
I think Scott Meyers mentioned this issue in a late video.
 
"wots out next lecture?".."oh.. conditional jump guy"
 
1:47 PM
@sbi That's definitely valuable feedback that I've never heard before, thanks.
 
500 students sounds terrible
 
Actually, I think it's more like 550.
 
stage anxiety attack inc
Hey Martin
 
sbi
@fredoverflow I think I have heard about this. However, Scott is very good in interacting with his audience. Even when it's many people.
 
1:48 PM
@MartinJames You, I remember you
 
> I like c.
 
@sbi Do you know what Scott is up to, now that he abandoned C++? :-(
 
@fredoverflow Planning his comeback with Stepanov.
 
@Magisch Don't worry, I don't have a stage. The students are sitting on a higher level than me.
 
has there been another C++ and Lounge<C++> drama?
 
1:49 PM
@Morwenn Is Stepanov abandoning C++ as well?
 
@fredoverflow congrats - from 4 to 500 in 2 years, you have grown your students fast :p
 
@Magisch Frank Ifield. 1962
 
@fredoverflow He retired a few weeks ago.
 
@MartinJames You were one of the guys that downvoted me
 
@TelkittytheWebDeveloper 4 was in 2008 :)
 
1:50 PM
I remember every single downvote I've gotten on this site
2
 
@Magisch holding a grudge are we?
 
@Magisch You are not alone, then. I ran out of downvotes again yeterday:)
 
Stack Overflow is Salt Overflow for me
 
I don't recognize Magisch. Why should we downvote him?
 
sbi
@fredoverflow Over the years, he has talked about many projects he never got done (none of which I'd parrot here), so I suppose being who he is he'll pick way too many of them to tackle and ends up working more than before his retirement announcement.
 
1:51 PM
The only thing I remember him mentioning besides C++ was "The keyhole problem" or something.
 
Is any of you part of a C++ user group?
 
@ElimGarak Oh that's nice, I like C, too!
 
@Magisch I can't be bothered - most of mine are managed, malicious downvotes, (ie in batches of 2 at the same time), anyway:)
 
@MartinJames You are more negative then me, and im German
 
@Morwenn Is "C++ user group" some official title?
 
1:52 PM
how?
 
@fredoverflow Not really, but it seems that there are more and more user groups and I still don't understand how it's a good thing.
 
@Magisch he uses C++
 
I mainly use C
 
1:53 PM
C uses you.
 
@Magisch Germans are not known for being negative, (not here in UK, anyway). I kinda like the Germans - they have their problems but at least they aren't Australian.
 
I can java, but I refuse to
7
 
for C++ you have to assume the worst
 
sbi
@Magisch I made sure you have something to exercise some more mental training on this. Keep it up!
 
The other day I found out that 'a' == "a" is just a warning in C, not an error. Fun times.
 
user406009
1:54 PM
@Morwenn Isn't the lounge technically a C++ user group?
 
@sbi really?
 
user406009
Or is there some arbitrary criteria that needs to be satisfied?
 
@Lalaland Nah, it's a procrastination group.
 
@Lalaland the lounge is an emotional support group for users of C++
4
 
You really just downvoted 3 of my posts for giggles
 
1:55 PM
@Lalaland That's what I was wondering.
 
>_>
 
@Magisch Nah, your posts are shit.
 
oooooh
 
Why thank you
 
Can't we get someone normal here? Just once?
 
1:56 PM
@ElimGarak o u c h, im calling the nearest hospital's burn ward :P
 
@fredoverflow Fuck C, I have to enhance some legacy crap, again. The very worst part of it, the fu**(%&_):@ protocol, needs a new message.
 
@ElimGarak Well, normal people don't want to stay here.
 
sbi
@Morwenn The robot once took me to a meeting of Berlin's UG. I wasn't all that impressed. IME, even on conferences a surprising number of speakers are bad speakers, so the chance hitting someone good at a UG is pretty low.
 
@ElimGarak Normal? What's that?
 
@ElimGarak you think someone normal would wander into a chatroom on a professional programming site?
2
 
1:56 PM
@sbi Wow, better stick to the Lounge then.
 
Lounge-adept? Yes, Lounge-adept!
 
Lounge<NormalUsers>
 
@ElimGarak Care to elaborate though? Shit in what way?
Im a noob at programming in general :D
 
@sbi Has your company switched to C++11 yet? ;)
 
@Magisch Somewhere between 1 and 7 I guess.
 
sbi
1:57 PM
@Morwenn Take this with a block of salt, though. I'm known as being quite intolerant towards speakers.
 
@sbi Oh.
That's because you're a gorilla.
 
Ven
@fredoverflow he does Go now :P. that was the title of his blogpost
 
} // good to go
 
She's back in the running again. But the flu hit harder than usual :)
I have been looking since october :) Starting new job next monday. So yeah, we're fine
 
Awww, that's so sweet!
 

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