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6:00 PM
@TonyTheLion Almost 10 AM here. I've been at work for a while, but haven't really started anything very substantive yet...
 
@JerryCoffin Sounds like me in the morning
 
@BoltClock wait a minute, do you watch weird MLP fan made videos that feel like acid trip?
 
@HubertApplebaum sing a poor what?
 
@KhaledKhnifer Like the one @Morwenn linked to? ... not intentionally
But then again, all the well-made ones have been C&D'd :(
 
Seriously? :o
 
6:04 PM
So, I now know the project I will be working on for my Language Library Design C++ clas.
 
Even the live action for Cupcakes?
 
A standard-library-strength abstraction for Audio /cc @Borgleader
 
I'm an idiot. Just the fanmade vids that were faithful to the show's art style, e.g. button mash
 
Ell
data (=) : a -> b -> Type where
     Refl : x = x
 
I'm thinking of splitting it up into two parts: the low-level parts that get an audio device / context and simply handles submitting buffers to the underlying implementation,
and the high-level bits that handle things like audio effects and shit.
 
Ell
6:05 PM
I wonder how :t 4 = 5 is 4 = 5 when there is no constructor of = for when a != b
 
@TonyTheLion so what make Friday unique, Family time .. BBQ .. outdoor .. ?
 
I'll probably focus on the first part, leave the rest for later.
 
@ThePhD When you're done, submit a proposal.
 
@KhaledKhnifer the fact that I can run out of fucks to give for two days.
that I don't have to get up tomorrow morning
that I don't have to go bed by some sensible time tonight
literally everything is good about Friday
 
@TonyTheLion so you resupply fucks on a weekly basis ?
 
6:07 PM
@KhaledKhnifer Yes
 
@sehe I understand your point, but somehow I feel like "We want to end XYZ" has more punch than the other one. I think its a case of strong wording vs strong meaning?
 
@TonyTheLion remember you're talking to a govt employee :P
literally every day is saturday for him
 
I'll probably be taking queues from here and my own audio library implementation (that I need to refactor).
 
and I can listen to sad songs and still be happy youtube.com/watch?v=r6VftcpePOg
 
6:09 PM
this is the best scene in all animes ever
 
user1804599
cool a 24 minute song
 
Xeo
I saw Halestorm years ago as a pre-group
 
nice :)
 
Xeo
6:10 PM
they were pretty good, yeah
 
sbi
@ThePhD What are you doing in such a course?
 
Xeo
@TonyTheLion The main attraction was nicer :D Papa Roach and Disturbed
 
@Xeo two nice bands
 
Xeo
btw sbi, you didn't answer my question earlier
 
@TonyTheLion do you enjoy metal with female vocalists
 
6:11 PM
Disturbed's cover of a Simon and Garfunkel song has got quite some attention
@AlexM. I do.
 
I can't do it :< I need a manly voice in there
 
@sbi Would "being bored" be an allowable answer here (or, if you wanted be mean, maybe: "finally learning C++")? :-)
 
Xeo
@JerryCoffin The latter would be @Mysticial
 
oh man, a metal chick is everything <3
 
sbi
@Xeo You know, I do have a tab open that links to it, but didn't manage to answer it yet.
 
6:12 PM
I like some softer metal chicks
like the one in
 
@Ell it’s an empty type with no inhabitants
 
Xeo
@sbi Heh
 
@TonyTheLion then I'd suggest Baby Metal :D
 
evanescence
 
Angela Gossow who used to sing for Arch Enemy <3
 
6:13 PM
the type makes sense to spell, but you can’t produce a 'sensible' value of it
 
sbi
> "Sergeant, what shall we do if we treat on a mine?" "I believe the common procedure is to jump up into the air and scatter yourself over a wide area."
 
> treat
 
@TonyTheLion I once kind of pissed off my girlfriend of the time when I quipped that in a duet of Ozzy Osbourne and Lita Ford, she was the one with the deep voice.
 
Ell
6:15 PM
@LucDanton I'm still kind of confused though - which type constructor was used to construct the type 4 = 5?
 
@Ell btw where did you see that? if I try it in Idris, then I get 4 = 5 : Type
 
@AlexM. Trivium is nice.
 
Bob the constructor best type constructor
 
sbi
@Xeo OK, I found it. If I get to do the seminar, and if that will not keep being pushed off until June, I might be able to make it.
 
@Ell it’s (=) in infix position
 
Ell
6:16 PM
@LucDanton ah
I'm an idiot
I misread
 
Xeo
@sbi Ah, okay.
 
sbi
@HubertApplebaum Oh damn. Oh well, too late.
 
@sbi Hall of shame
 
the values of type a = b look like Refl of course
 
Ell
@LucDanton but yeah it's idris
 
Xeo
6:17 PM
@melak47 SPARKLESTRUP
 
@ThePhD Wwise best audio library (just saying). Used in uni, holy crap.
 
Ell
I think I'm just not understanding the definition of (=)
 
@Borgleader Wwise?
 
@Ell can you read and understand the data definition for e.g. a list?
 
@Shoe :D
 
Ell
6:20 PM
With cons you mean?
 
yes
 
@Xeo :-)
 
> https://www.audiokinetic.com/licensing/pricing/
> $750 minumum for "Level A"
muh wallet
 
Ell
I understand it in haskell
 
@Ell here, probably
 
Ell
6:21 PM
Is the idris one any different? besides using ::
 
@Ell we’re interested in the Idris syntax
 
Ell
I'll read it
 
@Ell yes and no
 
user406009
@ThePhD Look at the non-commerical products section.
 
@sbi It's an "advanced undergraduate course". There's also the lure that I'll get to do a final project with a group. There's also no exams / finals in teh course either.
 
6:22 PM
@Ell dw we’re starting off with purely syntactical differences
i.e. how to read and understand the language
 
Ell
okay cool. I understand it besides the %elem
 
@sbi Depends on the type of mine. With some its only your legs that scatter...
 
Ell
but I ought to prove it
 
@Ell those are hints/compiler directives, we don’t need them
 
Ell
%elim data List : (elem : Type) -> Type where
  Nil : List elem
  (::) : (x : elem) -> (xs : List elem) -> List elem
 
6:23 PM
@Lalaland The licensing scheme is not suitable for something that I would want to put into the standard.
 
sbi
@ThePhD Oh well, and you get to hear about C++ straight from the horses mouth. I agree, this sounds too good to let it pass.
 
And if I was a betting man, I bet the interface is some low-level C garbage.
 
righto, so the syntax is Constructor : TypeOfConstructor
 
Ell
Right
 
user406009
@ThePhD You want to propose an audio library for the C++ standard?
 
6:23 PM
@sbi That too! Hopefully we'll get into meaty, delicious C++17 stuff later.
 
@ThePhD the probability of that being the case is quite high I would say
 
sbi
@JerryCoffin Damn, you are nitpicking. Are you by chance a C++ programmer?!
 
Ell
So in List there are two constructors
 
can you make sense of Refl : x = x now?
 
@sbi I refuse to answer on the grounds that I may incriminate myself.
 
6:24 PM
@Lalaland The goal for the course is to make something that is idiomatic C++ and designs a library based on "good practices". You get 1 guess what Bjarne Stroustrup thinks is good design for a C++ library. :v
 
sbi
@JerryCoffin :)
 
Ell
@LucDanton yes, I think so
 
@JerryCoffin wait... that's the 5th amendment?
 
user406009
@ThePhD He talks about that a lot during his cppcon talks.
 
user406009
You might want to consider rewatching them.
 
Ell
6:26 PM
Hmm. I'll need to stare at this for a bit to figure out what my problem actually is. Ie, I don't understand what I don't understand yet
 
user406009
What type of library are you thinking of creating?
 
@Lalaland Maybe, but we're going to spend half of the course talking about C++ stuff and he's already demonized everything from Garbage Collection to Generics in other languages, so I'm getting pretty far in understanding what he wants I think!
 
Ell
If I want to create a List, I would use either the Nil constructor, or the (::) constructor.
 
@TonyTheLion Well, being able to do that is the right conferred by the 5th amendment, anyway. How's that for nit-picking? :-)
 
good nitpick :)
 
6:27 PM
@Lalaland Just low-level audio library that does things like handling submission of a buffer of raw audio PCM data to some existing audio_adapter.
 
sbi
Jerry is a picking nit.
 
Ell
if I want to create an (=) I would use the Refl constructor - what else is there to use?
 
@Ell yep, that’s it; it’s just the one constructor
 
user406009
Lounge<pedantics anonymous>
 
Ell
Right
 
sbi
6:28 PM
It's spelled "pedantic". (SCNR.)
 
rofl
company ad in my area "Hiring developer, min 3 years exp + bachelors or related"
pay: minimum wage
good luck
 
user406009
@Magisch If you don't mind me asking, which country?
 
Germany
 
sbi
@KhaledKhnifer Don't be too impressed by this. Most of the chatters here would be glad if they had someone to supply their fucks to.
 
that makes it even more hilarious
 
sbi
6:30 PM
@Magisch Where in Germany??
 
Xeo
@Magisch hahaha
 
Southern Hessen
 
@Ell now there’s a connection in that there is an extension for Haskell to support the other syntax
 
sbi
@Magisch Sounds unlikely that they'll find someone.
 
IT Labor market is so shorted here I get paid almost twice minimum wage as an apprentice
 
6:30 PM
@TonyTheLion Years ago I heard (and I'm starting to believe it) that American movies have done more than our diplomacy to spread our system of law. A Belgian living in the UK knows the fifth amendment almost without thinking. I've heard that in all sorts of places that it's not really true, people who've just been arrested "know" they have a right to an attorney, the right to remain silent, etc., thanks (apparently) to decades of American cop movies/TV shows.
 
what an honor and privilege it is to join this channel, hello to all of you
 
user406009
@TerrenceYoung Welcome to the room.
 
@sbi In this market you wont get anyone with 3 years xp + bachlors for under 80k a year
much less for minimum wage
 
Xeo
Urgh, I do hope we get some of the nice contracts finished soon, I wanna go and push for a raise again.
 
thx @Lalaland!
 
user406009
6:32 PM
@Magisch Does your country have a foreign worker visa program? In the US, companies will play games like that to declare that there "is no local talent available and must therefore import more workers" and whatnot.
 
user406009
They try to write the most undesirable sounding job posting to discourage local people from applying.
 
@Lalaland yes we have, and their pretty liberal. You dont need to prove that there is no local talent available
 
@TerrenceYoung Hello. just in case you haven't read the rules yet, there should be pinned message with a link to them toward the right of your screen.
 
user406009
@Magisch Ah, different system then.
 
@sbi it was a sarcastic reply on something like "I run out of fucks on the weekend"
 
6:33 PM
turns out people dont want to live in southern germany much
go figure
 
user406009
@Magisch Why?
 
Ah cool got my circleci T-Shirt // CC @CatPlusPlus
 
Xeo
Well you're almost not-Germany down there!
 
Idk
I like it here
 
@Ell in fact it’s not just syntax, have a look at this Haskell (=) (there’s even an official one)—although you can’t quite write Refl :: 4 :~: 4 in Haskell :)
 
6:34 PM
Thanks @JerryCoffin!
 
Local companys have started paying people to give the refugees german lessons so they can work faster
 
@BartekBanachewicz pix or it didn't happen
 
sbi
@KhaledKhnifer You don't say!
@Xeo It's called Un-German.
 
Xeo
hrhr
 
sbi
looks better that way.
 
Xeo
6:36 PM
"Ungerman" was very weird to read, yeah.
 
For some reason we have a massive demographic problem
 
@Xeo Oh yeah, how did that go last time you tried?
 
there are a ton of jobs but no young people to fill them
 
user406009
Well, at least you get cheaper housing if people don't want to live in southern Germany.
 
Thats right
 
Xeo
6:36 PM
@ThePhD Company finances weren't in a state that would really allow such a raise :/
 
I pay 220 euros a month for a 2 bedroom apartment with internet heating and electricity included
 
Xeo
(We just let half of the company go, basically)
@Magisch Nice.
 
user406009
@Magisch Wow.
 
@Xeo So they've cornered themselves to saying they would give you a raise if finances permitted, or did you just not go for it?
 
@Magisch Seems rather strange (at least to me). I quite enjoyed Salzburg, which (at least as I recall) is somewhere between a long walk and a short bike ride from southern Germany.
 
sbi
6:37 PM
@JerryCoffin In fact, while I wouldn't have been able to say this is the 5th amendment, the sermon recited when someone gets handcuffed certainly managed to cross (riding on West German TV) the Iron Curtain.
 
Xeo
440eur for ~46m2 here, without electricity or interwebs
 
user406009
Best I could get in Houston is about $500 for a 1 bedroom, and that's supposedly a cheaper city.
 
Xeo
~500 total
@ThePhD Kinda the former, yeah.
 
@набиячлэвэлиь sec i just got home
 
well
there is this thing about germany that people dont enjoy
 
6:38 PM
i would totes wear it on monday for meet.js
 
sbi
@Xeo I suppose 46cm² is barely enough to put one foot on the ground?
 
but I already promised I'm wearing my company shirt
 
the massive culture of punctuality and correctness
beeing 5 mins late is serious business
 
turns out that from me just wanting to go there it grew to kinda official thing
 
sbi
@Magisch Is this that it's full of Germans?
 
Xeo
6:38 PM
@sbi ♪~
 
my company is sponsoring the pizza /cc @AlexM.
 
Ell
@LucDanton Thanks :)
 
user406009
I wish they sold really small apartments.
 
Xeo
@Magisch lol
 
user406009
I just want a bed.
 
Xeo
6:39 PM
not at my company
 
user406009
I don't even need a desk.
 
@Lalaland wut
 
@Lalaland In china they do this
 
@Magisch woah I'm jealous
 
they call them pods
 
user406009
6:39 PM
A shared bathroom would be OK as well.
 
@Lalaland a studio?
 
its a bed with a small retractable table and TV, and a communal bathroom
 
Xeo
Btw @Magisch, care to use the reply arrow?
 
user406009
A real oven really isn't that needed. Toaster oven + microwave + stove is all you really need.
 
whats that do @Xeo?
 
Xeo
6:40 PM
@Magisch <- this
 
@Lalaland but what about making proper food?
 
@Xeo ahh, okay
 
@Lalaland Is this for living in?
 
@Magisch Nicely done.
 
tbh its a little sad how much power young people have here
 
6:41 PM
Maybe you can move in into Jerry's coffin?
2
 
user406009
@JohanLarsson Well, living cheaply.
 
user406009
@TonyTheLion Sandwiches all day baby.
 
"Go ahead fire me, I'll have a new job in a day and you'll be without a guy for a year"
 
@Lalaland In a pinch, a high-powered wi-fi with a directional antenna can double as a microwave. :)
 
Ell
@Lalaland how even
 
6:41 PM
"We want to keep civilisation". See, no need for strong wording.
My point is "We want to end violence against women" completely and utterly misses the point. They don't want it to **start**.
 
carries real weight here
 
@JohanLarsson good pun
@Lalaland I couldn't do that
I need some variety
 
user406009
@Ell Libraries + parks.
 
sbi
@Xeo The company I work for just raised several dozen million $. Next thing happening was that they clamped down on hiring. :( We sneaked "someone" in just before that happens, the Java guys failed, and have now seen two very good candidates they wanted to take leave for other jobs.
 
Xeo
@Magisch If you have to go that far, the situations already fucked anyways, isn't it?
 
Ell
6:41 PM
do parks have mains sockets? :P
 
Xeo
@sbi owch
 
@Magisch I'll take that as a compliment :)
 
@Xeo a little
@sehe hmm?
 
@Lalaland What city?
 
@Magisch I'm young in mind spirit
 
6:42 PM
@sbi Isn't being able to hire and expand a large part of what raising money is usually supposed to support?
 
Xeo
@TonyTheLion I've been living the last few days off of heavy cream with flavouring, so there's that. Mmm, delicious.
 
@sehe tbh I don't care about age on the internet
you could be 50 or 10 and I wouldn't know, or care
 
user406009
@JohanLarsson I am currently in Houston, but I might be moving to somewhere like San Francisco soon after graduation.
 
@Magisch Who does (only peeps who don't get it)
 
@Xeo That does sound nice
 
sbi
6:43 PM
@JerryCoffin So I thought. My suspicion is that this is $BigInvestor now meddling with how to run the company. Sigh.
 
user406009
@Ell Good point. Still, libraries exist.
 
2 mins ago, by Magisch
tbh its a little sad how much power young people have here
 
@sbi smells like a shipwreck
 
Slight paradox
 
@sehe relating to the german labour market
 
Ell
6:44 PM
@Lalaland still, you'd have to lug your box around :/
 
lol
 
Ell
whatever, your choice :3
 
@Magisch Oh. I get it now
 
user406009
@Ell Laptop.
 
Xeo
@sehe "on the internet" /= "here" (germany)
 
6:44 PM
@Lalaland Smaller cities are nice for cheap living, move to new mexico imo.
 
user406009
Anyways, I just wish they would sell really small apartments.
 
user406009
That would be my dream place.
 
I would go for a 1 bedroom place even if it was the same price
cleaning a big apt. is work
and I hate work
 
2 bed would be nice, but I'm happy with 1 bed
 
@Lalaland if you want to live cheaply, you need to move out of the city vOv
 
6:45 PM
Bjarne's such a fucking nice guy.
What a great person to lead the C++ dev.
 
user406009
@BartekBanachewicz Yeah, but it's then a question of how long are you willing to commute.
 
@ThePhD Are you working for JP Morgan now?
 
@Lalaland laptop isn't a replacement if you want to work at home
 
sbi
@Magisch I suppose once management is through these fights, things will become smoother. However, the money will pay for the bills for longer than two or three years – if we do not hire more people and raise wages. So it's not like we could spend it liberally anyway.
 
My commute is 10 minutes by bike
 
6:46 PM
@Lalaland buy faster vehicles (you scrub :P)
 
@TonyTheLion Morgan Stanley*, and no.
 
user406009
@BartekBanachewicz Laptop + monitor + keyboard + mouse is quite effective.
 
@ThePhD oh
 
Xeo
@Magisch 15 minutes by foot
 
user406009
The extra processing power isn't really that necessary.
 
user406009
6:46 PM
@BartekBanachewicz The problem would be traffic, not distance.
 
@Lalaland one screen isn't enough for real work
@Lalaland motorcycles.
 
@sbi Could be, I suppose. I guess I'm lucky that way--the owner of my company has some investors, but having previously run NASA (for longer than anybody else in history, no less), the investors leave it to him to run the company. I'm sure they want some assurance that the money's not being wasted, but he's not the sort who anybody pushes around.
 
3 screens here
I need to browse dank stackoverflowz while coding
 
user406009
@BartekBanachewicz That's quite dangerous.
 
sbi
@Lalaland Don't bother. He won't learn this.
 
6:47 PM
my work is 40 minutes by car, if I'm lucky
 
@Lalaland so is life, 100% of people who live die
 
user406009
@BartekBanachewicz Laptop is one screen, the external monitor is the second screen.
 
Ell
@Lalaland find some student accommodation :P
 
@Lalaland I never understood how anyone can use a properly sized screen and laptop at the same time. DPI issues aside, the additional 12 inches of diagonal don't really help that much
 
6:48 PM
Mind you not all is cheap here
I had to buy 2kg of apples for 4 bucks
 
@BartekBanachewicz additional 12'' always help
 
ridiculous
 
sbi
@JerryCoffin Well, one of the investors is one of the biggest fucking companies on this planet. From what I understand, they only own something between 20-30%, but there's a lot of force behind their pushes.
 
@ScarletAmaranth thank you scarlet
 
@Ell I see @Luc has cleared the confusion
 
6:48 PM
i knew i can count on you
@Lalaland I mean sure people have diff needs but I live alone at 50sqm/3 rooms and it feels kinda cramped at times
 
Ell
@ScarletAmaranth Yes :) I'm still finding it very unintuitive at the minute though
 
I'd totes move to a 200sqm house if I could afford it
 
Ell
so my understanding may disappear if I read something else and then question my original understanding :V
I think I have it though
4 = 4 is a type which has an inhabitant Refl
4 = 5 is a type which does not have any inhabitants
 
@Ell yeah that’s right
 
6:52 PM
yes, it just exists on type level; there is no constructor that can create a value of it tho
 
@JerryCoffin used to be less then half that
 
well, you COULD define one... ^^
then you could prove all kinds of things :P
please BelieveMe
 
@BartekBanachewicz Seems like that should be about enough space, at least as long as you remain single... :-)
 
Ell
@ScarletAmaranth My confusion came from being able to use 4 = 7 without a constructor
ie, how does one write the type 4 = 7 without using a type constructor to get it
hmm wait I'm confused again :V
I probably shouldn't use the term "type constructor" right?
 
there is a difference between a type constructor and a value constructor
shockingly enough, one creates values and the other one types :P
 
Ell
6:57 PM
haha yes
 
in C, the * operator when used with a type, is a type constructor for example
 
Ell
so which type constructor creates 4 = 5?
 
@Ell no it’s entirely appropriate
 
Ell
the (=) one right
 
yeah
 
Ell
6:57 PM
Ah of course
 
user406009
@BartekBanachewicz My thinking is that while we are young, we might as well save as much as possible.
 
Ell
obviously :P
I realise now
thanks again luc and scarlet
 
user406009
Once I get out of school I am going to try to live as cheaply as possible.
 
@Ell lol ^^
 
@CatPlusPlus Recommendations for local VM that will handle dev stuff?
 
6:58 PM
@Lalaland :(
 
I'll store the configuration up in Vagrant afterwards.
 
@Lalaland good idea
 

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