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6:00 PM
FTL has nice graphics
 
@CatPlusPlus that's beyond the scope.
 
FTL is a great... but starting to get frustrated by the randomness when trying to get my last few ships
 
TIL: Real-Life Arguments have RAII and scoped stack space, just like C++.
 
@CatPlusPlus yeah, but they are not cutting edge 3D with a million sparklies per second
 
6:02 PM
@ThePhD Wuuut
 
It's not a definition of good vs shit graphics
 
@EtiennedeMartel I'm really just resisting for the sake of resistance :D
 
which furthers my point, game play is more important then graphics
 
@ThePhD Wat?
 
Yeah, don't watch EC. You might learn something and, gasp even have fun.
 
6:03 PM
Anyway I get to go home now
Be back later.
 
It's not about gameplay at all
It's just simply good graphics
 
if all you have is graphics, you have a dull film
 
@DeadMG Real-life arguments. xD
@thecoshman Journey? Esther? :D
 
Hello all. I decided, I was going to try to start a blog. However, I want to get the name right, in theory a familiar programming concept (this site, for example). Unfortuately, things such as "undefined behavior", "hello world", "bitsandbytes", - even "thegenericprogrammer" was taken. Any ideas? (sorry it is a tangent). I dabble in many technologies, so I'd prefer more general terms.
 
@user190929 how about "coding for dummies"?
 
6:04 PM
@user190929 Use your brain.
 
Hint: nobody cares. You think they do, but they really don't. Put effort into posting and forget about the name because it literally doesn't matter
 
that too
 
You can call it "poo blog" and probably nobody will even notice
 
@ThePhD not played Esther, but played Journey, and that a nice exploration and corroboration game play. I would still think it good on ps1 graphics
 
You think so?
 
6:04 PM
yea.
Robot's blog is Robot's blog, not "Flaming Dangerzone"
 
I feel like, at the least, there is an SEO issue here - if I search, say, "Hello world" now, I get a lot of stuff.
 
good content is a best SEO
 
Bah SEO
Nobody will search for your name for a long time anyway
 
So it is more of build up a userbase on good content than the name, you think?
 
I only ever use blog names when I search their archives
 
6:06 PM
People never search for blogs or get to blogs by searching poo blog.
 
Nobody new will search your archive because they don't know you exist
 
They search "How do I implement BLAH"
"How do I do BLAH"
 
And then, fi your site FEATURES that content, you'll be on the front pages
 
And those who search specifically for your blog with non-unique name can use site: or inurl: just fine
 
6:06 PM
Hm. Good point. I will try that.
Although, there still is a matter of chosing the name/url as you said, and I'd prefer to not use my actual name.
 
Call it Bob
 
@EtiennedeMartel Lol, in-game voice for jounrey might be pretty cool.
Get to talk to people while you walk.
 
@user190929 "Flaming Dangerzone"
 
"DUUUDE THIS PLACE IS AMAzING"
 
Taken actually :D for reference, I am currently trying blogger, hence it will be xxx.blogspot.com
 
6:08 PM
tehsexehcodez.blogspot.com
 
Not feeling flaming dangerzone, sorry :D
 
@user190929 Okay, stop asking us for help if you're just going to filter our suggestions or reject half of them.
 
Blogger is awful
 
Kind of like that, but I'd prefer something more... clean.
I am guessing you prefer wordpress?
 
If you have all these requirements, then the rest of it just means applying your goddamn imagination.
 
6:09 PM
God no
 
~Wordpress~
 
Oh. What else is mainstream?
 
Why not be a tumblrweed?
 
I have no idea I haven't used hosted blogs for years
 
Ah, forgot about tumblr.
 
6:10 PM
And for self-hosted Wordpress is like the worst choice because PHP and incompetence
 
@user190929 well don't listen to Cat anyway, his (blog|site) is terrible
 
I don't have a blog
 
content, content, content
 
accessviolation.com
 
I don't mean to reject suggestions, I am just a bit of a perfectionist I guess.
 
6:10 PM
Jekyll hosted on GitHub
 
unresolvedexternal.com
 
GH pages is good
 
Is that a linker error?
 
@user190929 yes
 
Also, I like free things, so this will be a subdomain here.
As per the graphics vs gameplay argument... I would prefer good gameplay, but I have to admit, given how much we use our eyes, visuals do make a difference. I mean, look at, say, app icons.
 
6:13 PM
> Let me reiterate an old point I made: that the videogame should consider the written novel to be its closest peer in the world of storytelling media. Both require a certain amount of participation from the person perceiving it and a certain amount of expertise, in reading or cover-based shooting respectively.
@user190929 That's not graphics, then. It's about aesthetics.
 
I find Wind Waker to be much better looking than Modern Warfare 3.
 
Are the two not synominous?
 
^^ lol
 
6:14 PM
@user190929 No.
 
*synonymous
 
~graphics~ is mostly irrelevant and meaningless term
 
My computer is 5 years old and I have no idea how I'm going to upgrade any of its hardware so I can run the new Tomb Raider
:(
 
Get a new computer.
:)
 
6:16 PM
it's called a "shop"
that thing that gives you hardware for money?
 
This is getting ridiculous, Chrome crashed again
 
Hey
Anyone want to smuggle a computer for me?
 
@DeadMG You mean brick-and-mortar structures?
 
@EtiennedeMartel Obviously an e-tail outfit.
 
Shops are made of osCommerce and other shit software
 
6:17 PM
I went to see the price of a ThinkPad Edge and saw it is 400 USD outside here. But it is 700 USD here!
 
I don't know those bricks you speak of
 
Check bank a/c. If $$$$ +, you're all set..
 
@CatPlusPlus Usually in PHP (yes, I know it's quite redundant).
 
@CatPlusPlus I've learned to separate ou tmy commits.
I split them into Removals, Additions, and Modifications, for easier Diff-reading.
 
I may be wrong here as I watched this muted, but is it sort of along the line of, graphics is the capability (resolution, say) while the actual visual is the aesthetics?
 
6:18 PM
@ThePhD Roll that back
 
@user190929 Graphics is the technical side, while aesthetics is more of the artistic side.
 
It'll take a bit more work but slowly I'm separating out everything into .Decl.h and .inl. Eventually, all the .inl can become .cpp and we can just build the whole DLL that way.
 
@Mysticial :(
 
@ThePhD Eh, commits should be small self-contained units of work, not necessarily split like that
 
Yes, that is better wording of what I was thinking.
 
6:19 PM
@Mysticial In case you haven't seen yet. stackoverflow.com/questions/15093324/…
 
Well maybe not self-contained
 
user142019
I'm back to annoy you!
 
@Zoidberg Fuck.
 
user142019
:3
 
@bamboon Yeah, I posted it here earlier.
 
6:20 PM
@Mysticial oh ok. what do you think about it?
 
I still find it pretty amazing how you can make things such as reflections on ice in a hockey game. Be neat to learn to do that, but... I Tried learning openGL, and I lost my way.
 
@ThePhD So those three commits should really be one, because it's the same thing
Diff reading is one thing, but rolling back or whatever is another
 
@user190929 open.gl has a nice tutorial on simple reflections
 
Oh. :c
q_q I has failed.
 
@bamboon Interesting. I would've posted something similar to that top answer if it wasn't already there.
 
6:21 PM
Hey @Zoidberg
 
Ah. My graphics card only gets 2.1 :\
 
One day, Cat, my commits will make you PRAWD.
 
fail
 
Do you know what the guys from Google use to generate xcode projects from Makefile-likes ?
 
it should, at least, be "PROWD".
 
6:21 PM
What country has gl as a TLD anyway? There is goo.gl to I think.
 
"PRAWD" is just "PRAWN" but with a D instead of an N.
 
Praaawd.
 
puraido
 
@user190929 Really? That's old.
 
Hmm, can I ask for a code review?
 
6:22 PM
Though, Prowd does sound like Prooowl and that makes me think of Kittey~
 
0
Q: Named operators in C++

Konrad RudolphA post by Yakk alerted me to the idea of named operators in C++. This look splendid (albeit very unorthodox). For instance, the following code can be made to compile trivially: vector<int> vec{ 1, 2, 3 }; cout << "3 in " << vec << ": " << (3 <in> vec) <&l...

 
Mrowl, Purrooowwliing~
What was that Thundercats character?
Snarf the Cat?
 
Makes me think of lobster.
 
I am not sure what you mean by old?
 
@KonradRudolph Yay workarounds
 
6:23 PM
@user190929 old as f*ck
 
(3 <in> vec) // this really compiles?
 
yep
 
Why wouldn't it
 
@CatPlusPlus For what?
 
For lack of custom operators
 
6:23 PM
(3 < in) > vec
 
@StackedCrooked of course
 
@StackedCrooked Ain’t it awesome? (Actually, sure, why not?
 
Oh! Silly me.
 
it might be 3 < (in > vec)
can't quite remember the associativity of relational ops
 
@DeadMG Left, you had it right the first time :)
 
6:24 PM
+1 for clever abuse
 
I still love that template magic on making objects out of... ASCII art, sort of. Then you could get the volume... who origionated that code?
 
user142019
@kbok so I heard you have an Objective-C related question?
 
@user190929 Konrad and Robot?
 
infix 5 <?>
(<?>) :: a -> [a] -> Bool
(<?>) = elem
f = 4 <?> [1, 3, 4]
 
@Zoidberg I just asked you
 
6:25 PM
 
v
4 mins ago, by kbok
Do you know what the guys from Google use to generate xcode projects from Makefile-likes ?
 
user142019
@kbok Probably CMake or premake4 (I prefer the latter).
 
Google uses GIP lately
 
user142019
premake4 is less crappy than CMake and actually usable.
 
@BartekBanachewicz I am not familiar with that, google did not make it more clear.
 
6:26 PM
Is <in> supposed to mean infix operator?
 
Or whatever it's called
 
@KonradRudolph why >=?
 
@StackedCrooked No, it means "in"
 
GIP is it
 
@StackedCrooked "if the value 3 is contained in the vector vec"... if 3 is in vec... if (3 <in> vec)
 
6:27 PM
I'll have a look then. Thanks.
 
@user190929 look in this room frequent users list
 
Oh, GYP
 
user142019
I had bacon pizza. \o/
 
@MooingDuck Alright, I get it already :P
 
6:28 PM
I don't actually know if it generates XCode crap
 
Ah, I see.
 
It does.
But it looks severely underdocumented
 
@MooingDuck Well, it’s an assignment operator, the a <op>= b counterpart to a = a <op> b
 
@KonradRudolph I suppose...
I like it
 
user142019
> <insert your definition of “interesting” here>
 
user142019
6:29 PM
Is that a pun?
 
@Zoidberg Not supposed to be. Maybe a hidden one.
 
Does g++ have support for theads yet?
 
it always did.
 
Alright, so, Montana legislators received this in their mailboxes.
 
6:31 PM
well, not always, but virtually always
 
cross-platform threads?
 
@user190929 for what?
 
user142019
I don't think a C++ compiler without support for threads would be used by any decent programmer.
 
@DeadMG He probably meant <thread>.
 
std::thread
 
6:31 PM
Yes, the C++11 one
Not.. is it POSIX?
 
I had two jam doughnuts. Anne had two, dog had one.
 
user142019
Of course G++ supports that.
 
Ah sorry guys, gotta run. Have fun … any more questions about my … question, just ask in the comments there
 
@user190929 There are other cross-platform threading, you know.
 
user142019
The question is, does libstdc++ support it?
 
6:32 PM
like boost::thread and TBB.
C++11 thread and POSIX thread aren't the only ones
 
@Zoidberg Threads aren't really vital
 
user142019
Use Boost.Context and implement your own green threads.
 
I would prefer to use the standard threads if they are available, but I currently don't need them.
 
user142019
For as far as they can be green.
 
It was just that, at least with my version (I had a batch from MinGW), it wasn't supported, but I wasn't sure if that was changed now.
 
user142019
6:33 PM
I should make a wrapper around epoll/kqueue that uses Boost.Coroutine.
 
@CatPlusPlus It's kinda useful to have at least one.
 
@MartinJames that is 'thread' singular, 'threads' plural is a different thing entirely :P
 
@user190929 MinGW is a different story.
 
That is what I figured. I probably should have lead with that.
 
user142019
Use Linux and clang.
 
6:36 PM
Does the MS compiler support it?
 
yep
but who would use <thread> over the threading library MS provides?
 
user142019
Don't use MSVC.
 
user142019
Unless you're into self-torture.
 
you're just jealous of my PPL
 
I would prefer cross platform even if what I develop only lives on my computer. Seems cleaner that way.
 
user142019
6:37 PM
What's a PPL.
 
@Zoidberg A decent threading library.
 
> used to fire a lot of C++ but not in anger for quite some time - source
lol
 
@user190929 The only decent cross-platform threading library is TBB.
 
user142019
Erlang is the only language with a decent threading library.
 
brilliant, chrome >_>
 
6:38 PM
@user190929 Please be aware that opinions of Zoidberg do not reflect opinions on the Lounge in general.
 
Chrome is state of the art
 
@Zoidberg It's platform-dependent TBB.
 
user142019
Who cares about opinions of not-me-people.
 
Chrome is state of the fart
 
TBB for poor people with poor compilers
 
6:38 PM
@Zoidberg technically, it has no threading library
 
@melak47 When the computer is busy, chrome handles that very poorly :(
 
@CatPlusPlus I should hang a painting of it in my living room then.
 
user142019
Safari is the best browser.
 
Yeah - I thought TBB was Intel?
 
@StackedCrooked Also free for everybody who has MSVC :P
unlike TBB.
 
user142019
6:38 PM
@thecoshman it is a threading library. xD
 
I like automatic parallelisation with no libraries
 
whose idea of "free" is "Fuck you GPL".
 
@DeadMG TBB is free even for commercial use.
 
that's not what I read last time I checked their licencing
 
@Zoidberg Latest version is pretty good indeed.
 
user142019
6:39 PM
@CatPlusPlus does GHC actually do that?
 
@MooingDuck the computer isn't busy. it was asleep. woke it up, tab seems to have died. chrome tells me about it, I click the "kill it" button, and the dialog informing me the tab has become unresponsive becomes...unresponsive!
 
@CatPlusPlus as in Java where it is more built in?
 
user142019
@StackedCrooked except for the rendering of round corners in some cases. :(
 
@user190929 lol
 
@Zoidberg vOv
 
user142019
6:39 PM
@CatPlusPlus I've always wondered.
 
user142019
Is there a list of optimizations that GHC performs?
 
Xeo
MSVC does some simple parallelization and loop vectorization, IIRC
 
user142019
I/O in Erlang and especially Haskell is lovely.
 
hmmm
to make the null code generator a null pointer, or use null object pattern?
 
user142019
And they have green threads. \o/
 
6:41 PM
I feel like everybody in this room knows more than me... probably true haha.
 
Green threads?
As opposed to... .. polluted threads?
 
@user190929 do not confuse shouting loudly with knowledge
 
@StackedCrooked Their "free" edition is GPL.
 
How are 'green threads' and 'lovely I/O' in the same namespace?
 
Xeo
@DeadMG nullptr, I'd say.
 
6:43 PM
I fell asleep trying to build Qt 5 >_>
 
@Xeo Agreed.
 
@Zoidberg Looks like name dropping, again.
 
Xeo
Although it can be highly annoying to check for nullptr all the time, it's better than doing a function call for naught, is my opinion.
 
user142019
@ThePhD non-OS-threads.
 
user142019
As in, threads managed by the runtime instead of by the OS.
 
Xeo
6:46 PM
Also, if binding functions wasn't as icky in C++ as it is, I'd say make it an optional and go monad-style, but eh. :/
 
user142019
Because the runtime is much better at deciding when to do context switches.
 
user142019
(The OS sucks at it.)
 
Xeo
@Zoidberg ConcRT <3
 
@melak47 Lol
 
@Xeo Oh no a function call
 
6:46 PM
Wait.
A single thread handles the context-switching?
How does that work out?
 
@ThePhD woke up to "python is not a recognized internal or external command" blarghll
 
@Zoidberg ...and yet at least 70% of the code I've seen using user-mode threads was substantially slower than even a relatively simple implementation using kernel threads.
 
@melak47 Buahahaha. x3
 
@ThePhD erlang VM
 
Xeo
Btw @Cat @R.Martinho, wrt indexed iteration through zipping with an infinite integer range, after thinking about it, you pay the cost of an unnecessary move/copy in C++ in case the original range generates rvalues. :/
 
6:48 PM
Look at me not care
 
Xeo
@melak47 ooh, I know that feel. Had that yesterday with Clang. :(
@CatPlusPlus Guessed as much.
 
Also it's rarely needed anyway
 
user142019
@DeadMG Maybe.
 
Going to insert a question in here - do programmers generally know a decent amount about hardware? I feel like it is yes, but I seem to not - less so than "normal" people, actually.
 
I don't care about the hardware most of the time
 
6:50 PM
@user190929 Not really.
 
user142019
I know that an ordinary PC has CPU and RAM and GPU and HDD or SSD and that's it.
 
user142019
Don't ask me shit about DDR2 or DDR3 or which SSDs are best or whatever.
 
@Zoidberg the fastest ones that don't die quickly, of course! :p
 
Dying quickly is less painful
 
@user190929 The typical programmer's attitude toward hardware: Q: How many programmers does it take to change a lightbulb? A: Sorry, that's a hardware problem.
 
6:52 PM
but imagine all the fun you can have with one that dies slowly :3
 
user142019
@CatPlusPlus depends.
 
user142019
You may have a lot of pain in a short time, or less pain over a long time.
 
@JerryCoffin bitch I will sort that shit out, where's my hammer?
 
Clarkson alert!
 
I am in a bad mood.
 
6:57 PM
It's called being alive
 
OK, I'll bite. What package/lib is giving you grief today?
 
@user190929 you should know a bit about how processors and cache work, helps you understand why some tasks are slow, and others fast. For instance, why MSVC's "optimize for speed" makes slower programs than "optimize for size".
 

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