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user142019
12:00 PM
I never use PHP.
 
Random trivia: ICU in C++ is consistently twice as fast as the Java version at most tasks.
 
user142019
"Faster than the Java version" that says nothing.
 
@GamesBrainiac It's wrong.
(mehehehe)
 
user142019
Tabs are wrong.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit lol, you try too hard to look evil.
 
12:00 PM
@GamesBrainiac I really don't have to try that hard at all, you know
 
@Zoidberg Wait, you do not use tabs to indent?
Just spaces?
 
@Zoidberg The actual information is right there before the word "fast". lern2english
 
He does, it's true. So sad :(
 
user142019
Tabs should be syntax errors.
 
He stole a tweet and now thinks he's solved world hunger
 
user142019
12:01 PM
I stole my own tweet.
 
user142019
I'm such a bad thief.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit WOW. Sorry, I was wrong to bring out your bad history with a putred language. But the fact that he uses space indentaion is just plain stupid.
 
at first I was all in favour of using tabs to indent, but I have learnt the error of my ways.
 
@Zoidberg You didn't get that from someone else? Thought I'd seen it before.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit I'm still hungry
 
user142019
12:01 PM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit no?
 
@GamesBrainiac It is.
Which language are you talking about?
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit I <3 tabs.
Such wonderful things.
 
@Zoidberg Okay
 
user142019
If I got a tweet from someone else then I would retweet it because retyping or copy paste would be :effort:.
 
@Zoidberg Then it holds even less weight
 
12:02 PM
lunch :D
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit great comeback! :D
 
@GamesBrainiac Thanks, pal o' mine! :D
 
user142019
Tabs are unnatural.
 
@Zoidberg They are totally natural
``
 
@Zoidberg So was the manner of your conception.
 
12:03 PM
`class something {`
` something written here`
 
user142019
Stop failing at chat's retarded version of Markdown.
 
@Zoidberg Are you going to run for community moderator?
 
user142019
@LightnessRacesinOrbit hell no.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit He'd have to rig the election.
 
user142019
Being a moderator on Stack Exchange would be a nightmare.
 
12:04 PM
:P
 
@Zoidberg Well, you wouldn't win, would you? So it might just be fun to see you running.
You know, for the laugh.
 
user142019
I wouldn't even want to win.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Be careful what you ask for...
 
Good!
Then it's settled!
@MartinJames mehhehehehehe
 
Xeo
FFS, how did I manage to change the fucking keyboard layout in the terminal again?!
 
12:06 PM
Fucking Ruby/Rails
 
user142019
Ruby on Rails is pretty bad.
 
user142019
Use Happstack. (Y)
 
"comparison of Fixnum with nil failed" in an expression that should never involve any nils in the first place
 
user142019
Or Lobster if you dare.
 
Everything on rails is bad.
 
12:07 PM
@CatPlusPlus Use python.
 
Hey @DeadMG I have been once more wondering about a compiler-enforced normalized text class. Last time I considered it, I discarded because performing several operations in it would cause redundant normalization operations. That was silly. I think I can avoid most, if not all, redundant normalization operations if I do it properly (i.e. with the right interface). I don't think I'll even need expression templates. What do you think?
 
No I think I'll use brainfuck just lemme convince the client to rewrite this enormous system that we've been extending and maintaining for the past year or whatever
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Sounds to me akin to redundant synchronization operations. Just don't try to make it fit the regular interface, and the only way to find out for sure is to try it.
 
Give me strength and a better type system
 
user142019
@CatPlusPlus oh, in that case.
 
user142019
12:10 PM
Haha pwnt.
 
@CatPlusPlus I think you're angry. Drink a glass of cold water. It will make you feel better.
 
I think Ruby is a piece of shit and Rails is even worse
 
:P
@CatPlusPlus Perhaps you like PHP more?
 
Yes I also like bathing in a tub full of razor blades
 
Xeo
Seriously, how the fuck did I change the keyboard layout again... and only in that terminal tab RARFGWRAGE
 
12:13 PM
@CatPlusPlus Brainfuck it is, I guess.
 
What did you run that screwed it up?
 
@MartinJames He wrote /changeKeyboardLayout. Why would that do anything?
 
Xeo
I ran nothing
Except p4 change changelist#
 
Fuck your keyboard layout I have to find this shit bug in an environment that makes no sense, has no working debugger and documentation so bad PHP looks like a stellar thing
 
12:14 PM
No debugger? WTF?
 
@CatPlusPlus What? Ruby is shittier than PHP? Come on.
No way.
 
No they're both shit
I stopped caring about different levels of being bad
 
I have plenty code like that - old, embedded C stuff. No debugger, no ICE, no documentation, unbelievable protocol. To debug, I have to put in 'putchar' calls, one char at a time, rebuild, blow to flash and physically swap the flash chips. Outputting the value of one byte takes 30 minutes to arrange.
 
@CatPlusPlus Use python then! :P You can get paid extra by your boss for scraping the whole thing.
 
12:19 PM
Oh - and I cannot run the cretaceous 16-bit compiler on my main development machine - I have to FTP/telnet to an old laptop to do it.
 
You make the best business decisions
 
@CatPlusPlus Why thank you, Kitty! :D
 
@MartinJames No ICE? Isn't that good?
 
haha "cretaceous 16-bit compiler"
 
you'd struggle without Integral Constant Expressions too.
 
12:22 PM
Oh, that.
Also, I might ditch std::sort.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit HI-TECH C :((
 
Or maybe not.
It already uses insertion sort on small inputs.
Nevermind.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes NO!
 
Apparently most implementations of normalization use bubble sort.
 
A method that's supposed to return a number returns nil
I should stop trusting this shitty implicit return
 
12:26 PM
I think I'll forego a little performance in the common case and stick to not-a-DOS in the weird 10k umlauts case.
 
I know, totally un-C++-y
 
not-a-DOS?
 
Denial of Service. Performing bubble sort on a 10k-sized array sounds like a recipe for trouble.
 
oic
 
12:28 PM
But bubble sort is great for 2- to 4-sized arrays.
 
I was just confused for a second, because I was like "How can you forego performance and reduce DOS?"
 
The common case is the 2-sized one.
 
yeah
I just realized that, of course, they are opposite cases, not the same case :P
I'd read over "in the common case" without really parsing it
 
I am also thinking of setting up some monkey test using ICU as a reference.
A test that generates random strings, and throws them at both implementations to compare.
Actually, that's the main reason I haven't done several obvious optimisations so far: I want fairly exhaustive tests backing me up.
 
Xeo
@Xeo, are you serious? Looping over a range of integers is (I'm pretty certain) in every piece of C source that isn't a simple HelloWorld program. Or did you mean: why would you want to use the range-based for for that? — paxdiablo 2 mins ago
 
12:32 PM
I don't have any tests for my Wide prototype.
 
@DeadMG 'Integral Constant Expressions' - I had to look that up :)
 
@Xeo Haha, a convert!
 
Xeo
Robot, wanna rant about integer loops again? :D
 
but then, nor am I looking to optimize it
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes You mean me?
 
12:33 PM
Yeah.
@DeadMG You will want some if you want to call yourself serious.
 
yeah
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes Wait, you had a bookmark about the looping, right?
 
but since the output is a goddamn object file, it's not so easy to show that that does what it's supposed to.
 

Robot does not like loops

Nov 15 '12 at 10:17, 24 minutes total – 135 messages, 11 users, 0 stars

Bookmarked Jan 10 at 21:15 by R. Martinho Fernandes

 
12:34 PM
@Xeo Oh yes let's bring C into this, a language so primitive it has no construct that would allow us to get rid of integer loops
 
what
haha I like how you managed to snag a spaces-vs-tabs debate in there @R.MartinhoFernandes
 
user1357851
@R.MartinhoFernandes yes, replace it with N if, else if, else statement
 
You can't cherrypick messages to bookmark
 
I fixed a bug in the Mono C# compiler once, so I'll just relate my experience. Their tests consist of C# files with full programs with a special comment atop that states whether the program should compile or not, and what error code should it produce if not. If it compiles, it is assumed it should run and exit with success (i.e. the program itself performs any assertions required).
Then they just have a special runner that extracts the information from those comments, compiles and runs each program and validates the result.
@Telkitty Congratulations on missing the point.
 
ok that was boring
@CatPlusPlus Thanks, Captain!
 
12:38 PM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit You can always drop by the PHP room for some drama
 
@CatPlusPlus Yeah. For the last bookmark I made I binned a huge off-topic discussion that was interleaved. :/
 
user1357851
@BoltClock He looks down upon the PHP people
 
@Telkitty I think even the PHP people look down upon the PHP people
 
@Telkitty Exactly my point
 
12:39 PM
PHPeople Hate PHPeople
that's what it stands for
... laugh.
 
Why does that remind me of the Sierpinski triangle?
 
@BoltClock Because you're insane?
 
-1
A: Neatest way to loop over a range of integers?

hmjdI agree with what BЈовић has already stated in that the clearest way to iterate over a range of ints is the traditional for. However, a less efficient alternative (as an object to iterate over must be constructed and populated) could be: #include <iostream> #include <algorithm> #inc...

Ye gods
"Less efficient"
 
"Oh, there's a perfectly usable, short, easily-understood, well-known, and efficient form, but let me show you a contrived and inefficient form."
 
:badposting:
 
12:43 PM
Materialising a range of integers for looping is so wrong.
 
@CatPlusPlus, agreed however this is slightly different in that the range is expressed rather than explicitly present in the code (as in the other answer). — hmjd 23 secs ago
 
Xeo
haha
 
Not getting the point (alt+0153)
 
Xeo
@CatPlusPlus alt+0153
lol
 
@Telkitty lacks naked girls
 
user1357851
12:46 PM
@sehe Yes, I know you are trying to get me suspended
 
It's a factual observation
 
user1357851
Almost got suspended for posting half naked barbie cakes
 
What's that? You want a suspension?
 
Yes please
 
Xeo
lawl
 
user1357851
12:47 PM
@BoltClock Cat is volunteering for suspension
 
Will you be my /ban
 
user1357851
@BoltClock Cat isn't a firearm, we can assure you >_<
 
12:50 PM
@DeadMG Though I think I first need to make a list of which operations I want to support.
Substringing, concatenation... what else?
 
Smuggling
Time to make fun of the review queue again
stackoverflow.com/review/suggested-edits/1602757 Someone been reading too many sbi posts
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes Whatcha trying to do?
 
47 mins ago, by R. Martinho Fernandes
Hey @DeadMG I have been once more wondering about a compiler-enforced normalized text class. Last time I considered it, I discarded because performing several operations in it would cause redundant normalization operations. That was silly. I think I can avoid most, if not all, redundant normalization operations if I do it properly (i.e. with the right interface). I don't think I'll even need expression templates. What do you think?
 
> Thank you for reviewing 20 Suggested Edits today; come back in 11 hours to continue reviewing.
gguh DIE
 
Xeo
12:55 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes Wait, what's a "compiler-enforced normalized text"?
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit "We don't want your help anymore"
@Xeo A different type.
 
Xeo
That is normalized at all times?
 
Like ogonek::text but with the additional invariant of being normalized.
 
Xeo
Hm... would comparision require to normalize the RHS (or a substring) too?
 
Comparison always requires normalization.
Normalization does not change the value.
 
12:57 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes :(*
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes Make it a trait! :D
 
@Xeo What for?
 
Maybe make text normalised by default and add denormalised_text or something
That can't be compared
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes Dunno, to not duplicate the whole interface? Or do you plan to let them have different interfaces?
 
Shall I quote the same message again?
 
Xeo
1:00 PM
Oh whatever, I'm clearly not paying enough attention.
 
> I think I can avoid most, if not all, redundant normalization operations if I do it properly (i.e. with the right interface).
 
Where are the barbie cakes?
 
user1357851
@MartinJames do we want to see moar barbie cakes? :D yay:nay?
 
@Rapptz I have a bot, yes, but it resides in C# room.
 
in PHP, 3 hours ago, by DaveRandom
Hey, I just met you, and this is crazy, so here's a question, ♫ http://stackoverflow.com/questions/15084561/passing-post-variable-from-one-page-to-other
^ I suppose they have their moments.
 
1:03 PM
Yeah no
 
Normalized text or barbie cakes? No contest. I checked the PHP room - no cake there.
 
I always enjoy these little chats of ours
"normalized text"?
 
user1357851
@MartinJames barbie cakes 4 sho
 
OK, back to normalized text.
 
Stuff from std::string I definitely don't want: at, size. Stuff from std::string I do want: empty, insert, erase, append, replace, substr. Does this look right?
 
1:08 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes Codeunit size.
 
Though substr seems redundant (no fucking indices, and if you already have iterators you already have your sub-string).
 
@DeadMG Oh, I already have an interface for full code unit access: Container const& storage().
 
oh good
 
Thanks. I've never had a popup half-naked barbie cake experience before. Much more enlightening than std::string methods.
 
1:10 PM
^ Try that on for size.
 
PHP is getting hot? WHAT???
Their code seem a bit bloated.
From PHP: 'Proud owner of a room filled with crap!'
 
you mean their COEDS CODES
 
Xeo
Does Python have anything like where or let in Haskell?
 
No, the only thing that introduces a scope is a function
 
Xeo
meh, k
 
1:18 PM
-5
Q: PHP calculate 20%

user1898361Is it possible to calculate 20% of a value? I got something like this <?php echo $number['number'] ?> Now i want that 20% of this number. Best regards

 
on windows (and dos), is character 0xFF (255) a special ascii character (like characters 0-32) ?
 
0xFF is not an ASCII character.
There you go.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit I tried to post 'Infinity/NAN?', but the thing got locked/deleted.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes that would make it a rather special character IMO :P
 
@MartinJames :(
@tigrou No.
 
1:26 PM
@thecoshman No, it just isn't.
@tigrou In the Windows codepage 1252, the latin-1 character set, and the Unicode character set, 0xFF is the lowercase ypsilon with umlaut character (ÿ).
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes : "not a ascii character" but it this referenced here : asciitable.com
 
(Don't ask which damn language uses that...)
@tigrou That is wrong.
 
ASCII is a 7-bit encoding
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes : white space maybe ? :D
 
It doesn't have anything over 127
 
1:27 PM
@tigrou Let this be a lesson to you -- do not randomly trust everything you see on the internet
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes ¬_¬ I was joking
 
@tigrou No wait, that isn't wrong. That doesn't say what you said.
 
Well, it is wrong, because there's no such thing as "Extended ASCII".
 
FTR there are about a zillion extended ASCIIs.
 
so how do you call characters 127 - 255 ?
 
1:28 PM
I call them Bob
 
on the phone
 
@tigrou 255 is a number, not a character.
 
@tigrou you are looking at an extended table. These are all made up by individual systems, on ones machine 255 could be an empty space, on another it call be another character
 
Also, random trivia: "ΌΣΟΣ" lowercases to "όσος". Fuck sigmas.
 
i read MOMO
@thecoshman : are 0 - 127 always "fixed" (mean they dont change because of codepages or between languages)
 
1:32 PM
@tigrou They do.
Numbers are not characters, and that's why their interpretation as charactes is not fixed.
 
@tigrou 0-127 are defined by ASCII, and all extended ASCII codepages preserve their meaning (because it wouldn't be extended ASCII if it modified the ASCII codes)
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes don't blame the sigmas
 
I could present thee EBCDIC, but people would say that has very little use today.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes blame the lowercase characters that both uppercase to uppercase sigma
 
So I present thee GSM 03.38.
 
1:34 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes touché
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes silly German wiki
 
I realised this week that, finally, I'm barely using SMS at all. I always prefered it to FB chat but the switch has been made for me by my peers, and I didn't even notice.
 
And it still has CR character
 
A || B && C. Which takes precedence?
 
Xeo
&&
 
1:36 PM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit I'm still clinging on to Windows Live Messenger knowing it's going to shut down in about 2 weeks
 
@Xeo Thanks :)
 
by any chance, any one a pro with Solaris packages?
 
I use SMS/iMessage too but I don't really like typing on my phone all the time
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Since they are both sigmas (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sigma), I guess I should indeed blame the sigmas, then :P
 
especially, adding files to one (that is built via some magical script that I assume lives some where)
 
Xeo
1:37 PM
> lower case in word-final position ς
Bwahah, sounds like fun to implement
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes .. dammit.
 
user1357851
I am not personally on facebook, but I have this suspicion more people knows me off the internet than most of my friends, lol, sadness
 
I terminated my Facebook account. I didn't lose any friends
I had nothing to lose
(except my Facebook account maybe)
 
user1357851
With that said, facebook has been nice to me
 
user1357851
give me 100 dollar free ad $
 
1:44 PM
:^P can't get this to compile:

http://ideone.com/zFl5Nl

trying to multiplex to `detail::worker` overloads depending on if T,U are the same type
 
I have a Facebook a/c. People kept telling me I must get one. One day, I was ratted in the smoking area at the club and the nagging got to me. I opened one with my phone. Never used it again. Forgot a/c name. Forgot password.
 
@Xeo I don't even know how the heck I will. I suspect lowercasing to όσοσ and leaving it to the rendering system to render the last one with a ς glyph is appropriate, since many consider encoding ς at all a mistake (it only exists because it is needed to roundtrip to some Greek codepage that made the mistake first)
 
user1357851
My friend told me I am the only 'faceless' person she knew
 
ς does not carry any more information than σ.
 
@Telkitty At least you have/are a kitty in a hand
 
Xeo
1:46 PM
It signals the word end!
 
@Xeo It does not. The word end itself signals that. It cannot occur in the middle of a word and magically make it the end.
 
user1357851
@BoltClock kitty in a hand you say ...
 
user1357851
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes it does read like a stylistic thing, and as such shouldn't be of any concern untill rendering it
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes But if it occurs in the middle of a word, it'd be σ :P
 
1:47 PM
Casing will be a fucking mess anyway.
 
Xeo
Btw, is the other O thing one that cases differently depending on whether it's in the middle or the beginning of a word?
 
@Xeo Exactly! It's the same thing, and only matters for visual representations (and thus the responsibility of the renderer).
@Xeo No, it's an O with a diacritic (it may be hard to spot in the upper case one, but it is there, probably slightly to the left)
 
Xeo
Oh wait, those were different Os... one had a dot to the upper left
 
FTR, arabic text renderers already do this.
 
when they're not blowing people up
ZING
 
1:51 PM
Say, if you type ﮦ three times, you don't get ﮦ‌ﮦ‌ﮦ (I inserted some stuff to prevent your renderer from doing it), you get ههه, because that letter has different visual forms for start, middle, and end of sentence.
 
because they insist on computer writing looking like handwriting
why?
ASCII isn't joined-up letters
 
Of course it requires smarts.
 
anybody here have any experience with adobe premiere?
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes woa
 
get back on that list ¬_¬
 
1:52 PM
@Xeo All arabic letters have four different forms (the fourth is the first you saw: isolated)
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes are you sure you want to continue with this?
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes Fucking hell.
 
@thecoshman I'm not writing a renderer.
 
mawning
 
Xeo
Lazy lion
It's almost time to head home again, and he comes in "mawning".
 
1:53 PM
Also, sorry, above should be s/sentence/word/.
 
I can be lazy on my day off
 
Xeo
Well, "almost" as in "in 3 hours"
@R.MartinhoFernandes Guessed as much
@R.MartinhoFernandes Why the fuck would you do something like that, though?! To torture anybody writing your language?
 
Don't ask me! I don't know much more about arabic than what I've told you.
Also, inputting mixed-directionality text is a mess.
 
user1357851
Does anyone else think this pic is wrong:
 
user1357851
 
Xeo
1:57 PM
Btw, Python is strange with requiring (stuff,) for a 1-tuple.
 
@Xeo How else could you distinguish it from an expression with parens?
 
@Telkitty rofl - actually, it's quite appropriate
 
@Telkitty > Create programs and get bugs out of your code
 
user1357851
It is like saying dummies writing C++ code is like coding on a cliff - is dangerous & has a decent chance to fall off when something wrong goes in the code?
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes Just let those be tuples and transparently unpack to their single element :D
 
1:58 PM
@BoltClock Seems they know their own book.
@Xeo Python is strong-typed.
 
Xeo
I know it's a bad idea, cheese.
 
They should just use different parentheses.
 

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