« first day (864 days earlier)      last day (4090 days later) » 

2:01 PM
@BoltClock hey bold
*bolt
 
hey
 
Xeo
BoldClock?
 
@bolt lemme guess it's 10 pm there >:]
 
@c0dem0nkey Yes
 
More like BlueClock.
 
2:02 PM
@Telkitty and theres telkitty too. hey mate.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes There's actually someone called BlueClock
 
Xeo
Btw, why can't we use strike in comments? :|
 
user1357851
@c0dem0nkey Hey codemonkey :p
 
@Telkitty that sounded awful.
@lol
 
user1357851
better?
 
Xeo
2:03 PM
Sometimes, I get a certain feeling of... invasion. We need to set up automated newb laser towers.
13
 
@Telkitty hug
 
@Xeo Reporting for duty, ma'am.
 
user1357851
@c0dem0nkey :)
 
Xeo
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Perfect, here's your mission: Create a on Meta Stack Overflow for the towers!
 
@Xeo No.. I am the towers.
 
Xeo
2:05 PM
lol
 
<strike> strike </strike>
 
Xeo
go snipe 'em, then
 
lol
 
targetting system failure
engage manual override
specify target:
 
user1357851
2:05 PM
It is all about quantity, not quality
 
@Xeo ¬_¬ I'm not against the idea of meeting new people... I just don't like it
 
are there females here now
 
Xeo
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Target fourth in user list.
 
@c0dem0nkey WTF kind of question is that
 
Xeo
Oh wait. :P
 
user1357851
2:06 PM
eventually this area will be flooded by newbs, you will be surrounded by newbs, they will be every where & there is no place to hide. That day ... is coming soon >_<
 
Xeo
@Telkitty Gallery~
It's our ultimate fortress-class spell
 
@Xeo target information accepted
 
user1357851
@Xeo yes, my lady?
 
@SamDeHaan STATE YOUR BUSINESS OR BE DESTROYED
 
Xeo
lawl
 
2:07 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes something you dont f***** know
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit he's not new here, btw
 
Xeo
@TonyTheLion That's the joke
1 min ago, by Xeo
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Target fourth in user list.
 
@TonyTheLion inquiry not recognised
 
Xeo
It always fluctates.
 
2:08 PM
… named operators. Am I the only one who never thought of this before?
 
Xeo
Huh? Care to elaborate?
 
@KonradRudolph Example follows, I expect.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Well, nothing too thrilling actually
int main() {
     int x = 42;
     int y = 23;
     auto z = x ^divmod^ y;

     std::cout << z << '\n';
}
 
no instruction received in 60 seconds. standing down.
 
2:09 PM
Haskell has that.
 
whew. that's better
 
or, to use the same syntax as R, %divmod%
@R.MartinhoFernandes well, this is Lounge<C++> …
 
Xeo
2 mins ago, by Lightness Races in Orbit
@SamDeHaan STATE YOUR BUSINESS OR BE DESTROYED
You didn't get to the OR part.
 
@KonradRudolph Exactly. Haskell enjoys some popularity here.
 
Xeo
@KonradRudolph All ambiguous with existing stuff~
 
2:10 PM
fatal error detected. please contact the developers and raise a bug, quoting STOP code 0x01
 
Xeo
lawl
 
@Xeo How so?
 
Xeo
@KonradRudolph 45 % 15 % 3~
 
"[bugzilla] New: Fatal error occurs when attempting to take fatal action"
 
What.
You are missing the point.
 
Xeo
2:11 PM
Or with identifiers.
 
@Xeo uhm, the named operator here is ^divmod^ (or %divmod%), not just ^ or % … no ambiguity
 
Xeo
@KonradRudolph And with a variable called divmod?
Spaces are optional, for the most part.
 
okey, I'm done with uni for today. hell yeah
 
@Xeo No it’s part of the operator name
wink wink
 
Xeo
@KonradRudolph Try to teach that to the C++ grammar.
 
2:12 PM
@Xeo Not a problem
 
the code is valid C++
 
Xeo
Yes, and that causes a problem, unless I'm misunderstanding you somewhere.
 
detected keyword 'problem'. re-engaging targetting systems...
 
@Xeo Hmm. I don’t see how it could, since decltype(divmod) is obviously a distinct type for which % has been overloaded appropriately (twice), and those overloads shouldn’t conflict with any other
 
2:14 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes it's an understatement
 
to wit,
struct divmod_t { int value; } divmod{ 0 };

divmod_t operator %(int lhs, divmod_t) { return {lhs}; }

std::pair<int, int> operator %(divmod_t lhs, int rhs) { return { lhs.value / rhs, lhs.value % rhs }; }
 
Xeo
@KonradRudolph Welp, why do we need template and typename, then?
 
@Tony We know.
 
Xeo
@KonradRudolph Oh, like that. lol.
 
2:14 PM
my manager asked me yesterday how well I was up to date with new C++ stuff
 
Xeo
I thought you wanted to introduce a new language feature.
 
Damn, too slow.
 
@TonyTheLion interesting move/what did you say (I'd say, it is bad he had to ask)
 
While @KonradRudolph is here he should totally nominate himself for SO mod so people can harass him about his existing role as Skeptics mod
 
2:15 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes ^^ well I had tried it out before … it’s interesting that your solution is almost identical to my initial one (before I coalesced the two types)
 
I friggin hate my University
 
@BoltClock Sorry, no can do … I’m stepping down there as well, first chance I get. Just look at my mod history (if you can), it’s abysmal. Turns out being PhD student is actually work
 
What a shitty institution
 
@sehe well I told him that I keep up to date, I have a copy of the latest C++11 standard draft on my dev machine, I spend a lot of time answering questions on SO and I have a learned quite a few of the new features. I'm probably more up to date than our other CPP devs. Why is it bad he had to ask, from your view?
 
@TonyTheLion As a manager, it's his task to know what he has to manage.
 
2:17 PM
@KonradRudolph Nope we can't see mod history on other sites. Sorry to hear you're stepping down, but at least you got a taste of what moderation is like. Best of luck in your course!
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes ahahahaha, you have no idea how long I've been trying to tell them that.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Often they manage the people in the team rather than the team itself, if you get my drift
 
@BoltClock Hehe, I got that before on another site (can’t remember which, either TeX or the now-dead atheism (I see what God did there))
anyway, coffee break
 
@TonyTheLion What the robot said. Though I can see how it would not have been relevant before. That's still a "bad" sign to an extent
 
@KonradRudolph I for one hope you fail and burn! :)
 
2:18 PM
@KonradRudolph haha
 
Xeo
Weee~ Time to continue dabbling in Python
 
@sehe not sure why
 
I'm the only one using C++11 features in stuff I code at work.
like lambda's and auto etc
 
I'm the only one who ever has, but I haven't at work.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Lack of interest. In a C++ shop, you'd want to know who's interested in innovations and who's leading that
 
2:20 PM
@TonyTheLion I <3 Lambdas! :D
 
lol "C++ shop". "hello, please may I have 3kg of C++" "certainly sir"
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit that's idiom, don't look at me
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit lol :)
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit With 3Kgs of C++, you get 500 grams of Java free! :D
 
@Games: "it's ok; keep it"
 
2:20 PM
C++ is only a small part of the tools we use
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit lmao
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes How is he going to find out if not asking his employees?
 
What is the language you can make the most money with?
 
Yeah, my boss, while a perfectly competent coder himself, certainly doesn't spend much time reading my code
 
@GamesBrainiac English.
 
2:21 PM
English
 
@GamesBrainiac that depends a lot.
 
@TonyTheLion aha. That's a pre. So it is something you officially carry. With us, C++ is not in the portfolio. Yet I spent ~54 months doing C++ exclusively
 
I'm not the manager and I code review most of what goes into our source repo. I am a senior dev tho
 
Don't focus on languages, focus on learning how to program effectively
 
2:22 PM
^ that
 
@Collin Maybe he stopped when he started getting nightmares
 
@sehe probably :-P
 
@Collin I know. I just wanted to ask, since I read this interesting article : devcodehack.com/…
 
If you go into the financial sector in London, you can easily get paid $100k for writing C++, but then again, they may hire a Cobol (whatever) dev for the same wage to work for them too.
 
@Collin unfortunately, c++ forces you to focus on c++ (at least for most people)
 
2:23 PM
@sehe a pre?
 
you know... a bonus
 
pre what?
 
@GamesBrainiac his list of C and C++ applications is woefully incomplete
 
shut it :)
 
@sehe oh I have never heard that used that way
 
2:24 PM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit I LIKE TO LURK, CLEARLY.
And I pay real good attention to when I get a ping, that too.
 
@kfmfe04 Not true. Like many other languages people tend to forget about the goal (think Haskell, lisp etc.). Now with python, php or other 'smooth' languages, the balance goes the other way: people tend to forget about architecture or quality in general
@TonyTheLion I guess it's a dutchism
 
ah right
 
@Collin Hmmm...I suppose so. But, I must say, he does give a good overall understanding.
 
so what's the advantage of using std::tie?
 
@sehe well, I'd like to forget that I'm using c++ when I'm actually using c++, but for me, at least, it takes me a while to get to that level of proficiency (esp with new features/paradigms)
 
2:25 PM
besides less typing
 
@TonyTheLion It's way less duplication.
 
@SamDeHaan It strikes me that I think the last time I saw you getting active in the lounge was... around the mod elections?
 
@DeadMG good advantage
 
and std::tuple handles all of the corner cases for you.
 
@sehe but I agree with you, in principle - most languages hide away too much detail
 
2:26 PM
I've seen loads of people make a mistake when writing their own multi-member operator<.
 
hmmm,
I'm not that familiar with std::tuple
 
@sehe Yes, that sounds about right. There was a long period after that where work decided to block the SO chat, and I haven't quite broken back into the habit.
 
what it really boils down to, is why the hell would you write your own operator< when you can get std::tuple to do it for you much more simply and reliably?
 
@kfmfe04 Yeah. It's the art of KeepItSimple. The art of IgnoreTheRabbitHole. The art of ConvetionTrumpsSmardity. Also: TestingTrumpsEverything
 
@DeadMG example?
 
Xeo
2:27 PM
@TonyTheLion references.
 
anyone up for SC2?
 
@sehe aye - totally agree: testing is WAY underrated - I've lost count how many times testing has saved me (it also leads to cleaner architecture). I actually feel like I'm trying to fight complexity rather than programming most of the time...
 
@BartekBanachewicz you're not going to beat @cicada :P
 
2:28 PM
@thecoshman she hasn't logged in for two days, so I don't know if her links will reach her
 
I love the use of tags in templates, btw - really cleans up the API
 
@thecoshman Besides, uh, what's with "beating her" anyway. We played once, I've lost. That's it.
 
that's a funny one
const /* unspecified */ ignore;
 
interesting, I did not know of this
 
2:30 PM
so unspecified depends on what?
 
nothing.
 
unspecified literally means "The Standard does not define this", so an implementation can do whatever the fuck it wants.
 
but it has to be something of a type, it can't just be left out?
 
(It's a bit silly since you could just use op/, but it gets the point across).
 
2:31 PM
@TonyTheLion Yes, but it can be any type.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes so it ignores the second arg of std::tie?
@DeadMG couldn't they have made it a template then?
 
@TonyTheLion No.
 
@TonyTheLion Yes, it has a type. It's just not publicly exposed because it's not meant for usage. Only the variable is.
 
hmmmm
 
it is some implementation-defined type which meets the requirements.
it is not any type, ever.
 
2:32 PM
right, welcome to C++ Tony
 
using type_of_ignore = declype(std::ignore);
Just in case you actually want to do stuff that makes use of it.
 
oh yea that using statement seems to be so useful\
 
@BartekBanachewicz AFAIK they will
 
does MSVC latest have it already?
 
fuck you typedef, say hello to using.
 
2:33 PM
as I spelled the name fully
 
Which reminds me...
 
@TonyTheLion No.
 
Fuck you Microsoft
 
I'm not sure if my tuple handle that!
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes I think it's kinda silly, since you can always do decltype(std::ignore)
 
2:33 PM
@Xeo Slowpoke.
 
Xeo
Oh, right
Meh, distracted
 
oh yea and decltype is a thing I haven't found a use for in real life code yet
 
@Xeo Anyway, that's not a common use case, and it saves them from having to take another identifier.
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes ignore?
 
Xeo
2:34 PM
It's just a type that discards assignment
You can just use std::ignore for your tie
 
@Xeo Is it?
Couldn't it be just struct {}, and special tuple logic?
 
Xeo
struct ignore_t{ template<class T> ignore_t& operator=(T&&){ return *this; } };
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes No. At least, cppreference implies not.
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yes
 
(I know, not a very smart implementation, but Hell++)
I need to check the spec.
 
2:35 PM
Feet, Y U COLD?
 
robot, halp.
no matter what I do, my semantic analyzer is way too coupled.
 
@Xeo @DeadMG lol, your two replies seem contradictory at a glance, but are not if I check what each refers to.
 
kill it with fire
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes :)
@DeadMG Just abandon Wide, problem solved.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Infact, I edited mine to make it seem more clear, before realizing that Xeo was agreeing with me :P
 
2:37 PM
> Returns: tuple<Types&>(t...). When an argument in t is ignore, assigning any value to the corresponding tuple element has no effect.
That looks enough for Hell++ to go crazy with it.
 
user142019
lol
 
I mean
 
user142019
MSVC is Hell++
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes Eh. How so?
 
@Xeo It says nothing about actually assigning to ignore, only to the corresponding element of the tuple result.
 
2:38 PM
the analyzer has to load my specific AST from the parser, so it's back-coupled, and then it has to create my specific codegen representation, so it's front-coupled too.
 
user142019
@TonyTheLion put your feet on fire and they no more cold!
 
user142019
lol runtime reflection using libclang
 
Though get's spec may limit freedom on that.
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes What it returns is tuple<T&...>(t...), though, so I don't see much leeway.
 
@SamDeHaan Shush. You're dead.
 
2:39 PM
@Zoidberg lol
 
message queue flushed successfully
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit but I thought you encountered a fatal error when you attempted to take fatal action. Has that bug been resolved?
 
Current status: unknown
 
Xeo
You can rely on std::is_same<decltype(std::tie(std::ignore)), std::tuple<decltype(std::ignore)&>>::value to be true, I think
 
there was UB involved, so...
 
2:40 PM
@DeadMG Having it take a code generator in the ctor?
 
Well, I don't feel dead,
 
@SamDeHaan Is it possible that you respawned?
 
@Xeo Yes, but that could be specialised.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Not unless I make the code generator a run-time interface, the analyzer is far too large and complex to be a template.
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes It can't. Type equivalence must hold, whether you use std::is_same or not. The return type of std::tie is explicitly tuple<Types&...>.
 
2:41 PM
@Xeo I think what nails it is std::is_same<decltype(std::get<0>(std::tie(std::ignore))), decltype(std::ignore)&>(), not that.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit everyone knows the new clone always thinks its the original
 
@SamDeHaan yup
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes And... that's effectively the same, with the element unpacked.
 
@Xeo So what. std::tuple<ignore_t> can be magical instead of ignore_t being magical.
std::get is the one that forces ignore_t to be the magical one.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit So to discover if I have respawned, I either need a reliable test or an outside observer to verify.
 
2:43 PM
@SamDeHaan Not when you are playing Paranoia.
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes I don't think there's a way to capture all possible positions and occurences of ignore_t in the parameter list.
 
Every new clone is painfully aware that they are one clone shorter of running out of clones.
 
wait
 
it's not actually back-coupled, because the AST could come from any source.
 
2:44 PM
@Xeo No need for it. Just do it in the small pieces your implementation inherits from.
 
I just watched my mouse scrolling speed increase in real time. Thank you, automatic driver updates
 
I mean, it has to be my AST, but it can come from any'fuckin'where.
so now it's only coupled in the output format, which I think is OK, at least for now.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit exactly what i was thinking of
 
@SamDeHaan I know :D
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes Also, operator= requires: "[...] is_assignable<Ti&, const Ui&>::value is true for all i."
Although I guess you could specialize that and lie, huh
 
2:46 PM
@Xeo Could specialize
 
@Xeo Wait, where does it say ignore meets those requirements?
If it doesn't, that's a defect.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Those are tuple's requirements for op=.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I have yet to play paranoia, the only time I've tabletop RP'd was an unpleasant college DnD experience.
 
user142019
Can @Feeds get banned if it gets too many flags?
 
yes, I am developing the software that lets your phones work by guessing my way through this black magic
 
2:47 PM
@Zoidberg I don't think you can flag Feeds.
 
It makes std::tie(std::ignore) = std::make_tuple(42); UB.
 
but I think we did once flag Feeds out of the room.
 
user142019
Ohlol.
 
Xeo
@DeadMG Nah, if is_assignable<A, B> is true, you can rely on a = b being valid, I think.
 
@DeadMG Right, requirements. As in, they must hold in order for an op= to have defined behaviour. It does not say anything about them holding for ignore.
 
Xeo
2:48 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes I don't think the requirements for ignore_t are directly stated anywhere, but they're implied all over the tuple spec. :/
 
@Xeo Implied from the intended usage.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes They have to hold for every type in the tuple. As long as ignore_t is one of those types, they have to hold for ignore too.
 
that dog who has no idea what he is doing has more idea about what he is doing then I do
 
@DeadMG That does not mean they do. You can have tuples of non-assignable types. You just don't have defined behaviour for calls to op=.
 
Xeo
11 mins ago, by R. Martinho Fernandes
> Returns: tuple<Types&>(t...). When an argument in t is ignore, assigning any value to the corresponding tuple element has no effect.
 
2:49 PM
guise
guise I'm bored
 
Xeo
I think with the rest, that makes it an indirect requirement on ignore_t.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Since the spec for ignore clearly states that it's purpose is that you can assign to it when in a tuple, you can't dodge them like that.
 
Xeo
@DeadMG There's no spec for ignore~
 
ignore_t has no spec, that's my point.
Only std::tie mentions it.
 
so bored I made this. I have no idea where I was going with that :/
 
2:52 PM
Hum... I have to debug an application which is completely written like that : 第四個欄位
 
Hi wise and knowledgable sages, a newb here *waves SOS flag*

Can anyone here help me understand how a compiler works?
 
Xeo
2 mins ago, by Xeo
I think with the rest, that makes it an indirect requirement on ignore_t.
 
@melak47 One of the related videos is "Picard seduces wesley".
 
Xeo
Anyways, robot, thoughts on ^?
 
I think it's gonna take me a while...
 
2:52 PM
@DeadMG I guess youtube knows. o.O
 
@SamDeHaan Paranoia is the awesomez. It needs a nice play group though, since the game is all about backstabbing each other.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yeah, that sounds fun. I'd like to get into moar tabletop RP, just don't have/know of a good play group.
 
@Hobbyist It processes source text files and generates object files. Then you spend hours trying to link them, then you give up and go down the pub.
 
@melak47 The video opens with Picard stating "Who's up for some cock?".
 
@MartinJames

Yes, I know that bit so far, I'm at the give up and come seek assistance part of the build phase
 
2:56 PM
wait
are you looking for assistance in constructing a compiler or using one?
 
@Xeo Yeah, the rest being get. That returning a reference is the only thing that forces it. Well, somewhat. I guess Hell++ could still make std::tuple<ignore_t> non-assignable since those requirements only apply tot the return of tie. (don't ask how; it does not have to be in the language).
 
lol, you think too highly of me, to construct a compiler, I'm just trying to pass a parameter to a compiler, inside a .build file
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes As I said, I don't think that last part could possibly work.
 
@Hobbyist stackoverflow.com/questions/ask
 
Xeo
Although you might want to file a defect report for clarification
 
2:57 PM
@Hobbyist not really the best place, here isn't I mean
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes No, through the return type of tie the requirements hold for tuple directly.
 
alright, sorry for bothering, I'll post a question
 
@Hobbyist OK, what happens that should not happen. What does not happen that should happen?
 
hmmm
a newb posting a coding question in a chat room?
 
There must be some error message, something?
 

« first day (864 days earlier)      last day (4090 days later) »