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6:00 AM
it's just way too arbitrary
 
Yeah.
7 days.
 
But Jerry got shit on harder and for absolutely no fucking reason
 
user406009
I cared about cosh being banned.
 
overall the sentiment is "mod power abuse"
 
Yeah Jerry didn't deserve that.
It was stupid.
 
6:01 AM
A 7 day ban is a slap on the wrist. We give people more than that for asking stupid questions on Stack Overflow.
 
@GregorMcGregor I’m more of the 'very poor community handling' persuasion
 
@GregorMcGregor When is that ever not the sentiment?
 
Not all of a sudden, and not completely different.
 
Though banning cosh from main site for this was quite dumb too
Not that not being able to post on SO is ever a bad thing
 
Like I said, !surprised.
 
6:01 AM
@RobertHarvey He got banned from the main site for something he said in chat.
I don't think that makes sense.
But hey, maybe that's just me.
 
WERE DOING IT AGAIN
 
Ehm, I think that's the way the system is wired.
 
Really?
 
P sure chat bans are separate, this was deliberate action
 
You can only kick-mute people from a room for, say, a day, I think.
 
6:02 AM
I don't think so. Jon banned people from chat-only for 30 days without banning them on the main site.
Anyway cosh being banned doesn't really matter too much at the end of the day.
 
@Shog9: Are chat-room bans chat-room only? Or do you have to mod-suspend?
 
@RobertHarvey what?
 
Welcome to the new mod room
 
you can suspend in chat, on main, or both
 
@ScarletAmaranth hey I remember now, I use protected for type-safety with this sort of stuff
 
6:03 AM
2 mins ago, by Rapptz
@RobertHarvey He got banned from the main site for something he said in chat.
 
by default, main suspensions also cover chat
 
Ok.
But, if the transgression was only in chat...
 
whereas chat suspensions don't allow you to send a message and also force you to enter a duration in minutes
 
@BoltClock Stop harassing me!
 
chat.stackoverflow.com/users/3602281/don-larynx example of banned from chat but not main site @RobertHarvey
 
6:05 AM
@ScottW FFS, I've long since stopped tracking all of the SE intricacies.
 
@RobertHarvey well, that depends. I've been known to go straight to main-site bans for folks who've sorta stomped on a line in chat. That guy who was inviting gals into rooms and trying to solicit contact info, for instance...
This discussion's sorta being had in the blue room right now, btw
 
> intricacies
 
@CatPlusPlus What happened to Jerry?
 
Oh yeah, I remember that one. Creepy.
 
Not rehashing this again go read transcript and meta and idk
Also stars
 
6:06 AM
Let's just enjoy our final moments in Lounge<C++>.
 
@Shog9 lol nerds on the internet
 
In any case, if y'all would stop flipping out every time someone has the audacity to rein you in just a little, things would be much more pleasant here.
4
 
Things are pleasant here most of the year.
 
> But when we see you discussion about how girls prefer having sex, what are we supposed to think?
 
6:07 AM
That's not what happened
 
WTF? What is wrong with that topic!?
Geebus.
 
Anastasiya too got a few creeps
 
@RobertHarvey I really object to lumping everyone together (also see: 'poor community handling'). Am I a problematic chat user?
 
@CatPlusPlus yeah, that was just stupid. Gave him some trivial time away & a polite message, and he comes back cussin' mad promising that he'll be back to do the same thing because... apparently his local bar allows it? Still don't know what the logic was there.
 
@LucDanton yes you are
 
6:08 AM
@LucDanton Yeah m8. The shitposting needs to stop.
 
I love me too @Scott
 
@LucDanton I always put on my flame-proof underwear before I enter here. I follow best practices, y'know.
 
And time to go for lunch you nerds
Don't trigger our mods again pls
 
I should either work or sleep
 
@RobertHarvey What is that a response to?
 
6:08 AM
Since the former is unlikely to happen any time soon
 
@LucDanton We're not all bad btw.
 
@wilx Trying to think of a context where this isn't a stupid thing to say. What are you quoting?
 
Hell I don't really find anyone here really bad.
 
@LucDanton I know what I'm getting into when I come in here.
 
I think the mods overexaggerate how bad we are.
 
6:09 AM
@caps That is copypasta from the meta post.
 
Why am I being told to not flip out, I ask cautiously so as not to seem like I’m flipping out?
 
It's pretty insulting to be honest.
 
@CatPlusPlus Hmm, my scan of meta questions isn't making anything pop. I read a few pages of transcript but not enough to figure out what actually happened.
 
user406009
@Rapptz or maybe you have just plonked all the bad people?
 
@RobertHarvey I don’t follow at all.
 
6:10 AM
I don't plonk many people.
 
@wilx Which one?
 
@caps Sucks to be you
 
That's OK. I don't follow much in here either.
 
-36
Q: Request for community attention on a moderator's behavior

NoobleIt has come to a handful of people's attention that at least some of the newly elected moderators might not be exactly up to challenge. Here's a message that very clearly demonstrates this incompetence, that was a result of a particular argument that appeared in one of the SO chatrooms: Madar...

 
user406009
@caps Jerry said something that was taken to be offensive. Enter a lot of drama.
 
6:11 AM
We’re being asked to be professional, but whenever I ask about that I get evasive non-answers. I think @sehe has been feeling the same. What’s up? How can I act on anything that has been said about us?
 
I still don't get how the statement is offensive. It's a personal anecdote.
 
I've been trying to find a better example of the agreement RE: flagging the room owners had/have with Jon Clements. I can find three:
 
Reading comprehension is non-existent, that's the only way how
@jaggedSpire You have too much time
 
@CatPlusPlus You said that a couple of times before. It's a bit of a specious argument.
 
@Rapptz you're not like Supervillain Evil. More like... There are a lot of you, and so you get that crowd behavior where when you're upset about something it gets really hard to have a conversation. Which means it gets hard to resolve things quietly without taking them out of the room.
 
6:12 AM
Honestly, I think if you'd just said "we didn't realize it would be offensive to those on the outside, we're sorry and we won't do that again," it would have just blown over.
But instead, you have to escalate.
 
@LucDanton To be honest with you, I don't think we can really do anything about it. They do most of their serious discussion in a "backroom".
 
Oh, please.
 
Mobile chat + fat unfit fingers = argh!!!
 
user406009
@Rapptz I will think most of us will admit that the "rape" stratement was in bad taste.
 
So… think nothing of what happened and carry on as usual?
 
6:13 AM
What rape statement?
Why do people keep bringing this up.
 
facepalm
 
Jon Clements giving permission to discuss on chat the contents of the meeting, provided no names are called, Tony sumarizing the decision and Jon clarifying the attitude towards flags, though the last is from before the agreement, and as such may not be as relevant.
 
I'm serious here.
I never saw a rape statement.
 
@RobertHarvey Yeah, if someone accuses you of something, just admit to it
No, it's not offensive, on any level
 
user406009
@Rapptz I brought it up in here before. Let me find it in the transcript.
 
6:14 AM
@Rapptz it's been discussed at length somewhere a mile back in the transcript or in one of the comment threads under that meta post.
 
@ScottW I can view deleted posts.
And in any case why is a deleted comment being brought up?
 
@Rapptz Go read the meta post. It's probably still on the front page.
 
Ask yourself : is this chat dispute really worth 3 hours less sleep?
 
I'll just quote myself I guess because this is repeating the same thing over and over and over
@JonEricson I literally do not understand this post. Power and conquest? What. What Jerry said is a in-my-experience life anecdote and it's not even bad in any way shape or form (unless people wanting to date before sex is bad? Is that what I'm missing here?) and I do not follow any reasoning that arrives at construing it as hateful or demeaning towards women. I could say the same thing about myself, wow. thecoshman is reiterating the idea behind Jerry's message in fairly strong words but that's because it's well into the ban spree campaign and we were all fairly annoyed already. — Cat Plus Plus 2 hours ago
 
There was a request for better links in the comments below sehe's post, is why I've been looking
 
6:16 AM
@Rapptz it was mentioned in passing in comments somewhere under that meta post, at which point folks sorta got distracted
 
because I hate this pussyfooting
for anyone curious
 
This is probably a decent place to begin with the main course: chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/message/27227414#27227414
 
@Rapptz #disgusted
 
Which, I'll warn you, is really boring for like two pages
And then continues to be boring
 
I was here when this present day discussion happened, FYI.
 
6:17 AM
@jaggedSpire I'm not sure if these are better links for your examples /cc @sehe
 
I really don't know what's wrong with me
I have some ideas
 
@CatPlusPlus +1
 
I don’t know what’s expected of me (other than what I’ve been doing all along)
 
@LucDanton Nothing man. You're fine. Honest.
 
Seriously. Just mark this room 18+ and be done with it.
 
6:18 AM
100+
IQ
 
user406009
I am not sure if mods are needed for currating that sort of content though.
 
that's really not the problem
 
Most of us are fine. It's just that some of us fling shit and all of us get blamed for it.
 
well, now I've hunted down what I'm pretty sure is the general vicinity of the agreement, which will hopefully help sehe find the best of the links for the whole thing, I'm going to go try for 6.5 hours of sleep, because I'm a pansy when it comes to sleep deprivation these days.
 
user406009
The owners tend to do a good job of binning things.
 
6:18 AM
Then why is it all 'y'all this' and 'y'all that' and 'this room this' and 'this room that'? I literally have zero control over what other people post in this room, it’s publicly accessible to anyone with a tiny amount of rep.
 
Then why are you here?
 
We just get bundled together. It's just how it is. No matter how dumb it is.
@RobertHarvey We are a community of friends from multiple backgrounds and personalities.
 
it's like you're all in the same room or something
 
@Shog9 What does that mean?
 
@ScottW you could team up with me and then we could sum our IQs to get in. That's how it works, right?
 
6:20 AM
@Shog9 People live in the same country.
 
@LucDanton wasn't supposed to be cryptic
 
@ScottW Not to get too pointed about it, but you lie down with dogs, you get up with fleas.
 
#disgusted
 
Do you stereotype all people from the same country together?
 
Also #bored
I'll try a nap
 
6:20 AM
@Shog9 Okay, but I still don’t get it. I’m being told to act, but there is nothing I can do. So I question the approach. What now?
 
Night.
 
@LucDanton If you hang out with the same folks a lot, others will tend to group you. Might not be fair, but it's inevitable all the same.
 
@ScottW stop trying to get banned, man.
You'll leave your husband behind
 
Oh why thank you for perpetuating that inevitability.
 
But if you lie down with cats, you will get up with cat fleas instead?
 
6:21 AM
I'm not leaving.
 
I wanna cash in my private conversation token.
 
So, what can you do? If you see a problem, try to discourage it. Beyond that, not much. That's usually enough.
 
@EdC offered one to everyone, no?
 
@LucDanton sucks for you
 
user406009
The plonking feature is actually my favorite part of this chat.
 
6:22 AM
nevermind
 
I want to see Jeff Atwood vs cat++ ... That's going to be interesting
 
I'm not describing an idealized magic utopia. I'm describing how things actually work. Shouldn't be particularly shocking.
 
user406009
It allows people to moderate things for themselves without negatively affecting the other users.
 
user406009
I would be really interested to see the plonking graph for the Lounge. Anonymized of course.
 
6:25 AM
@ScottW so... what, exactly? You want me to lie to him to help him feel better?
I like Luc. Why would I do that?
I can't change human behavior. That tool is greyed out in the menu for some reason.
 
We live here. We know how things work. Luc was interested in knowing how they should work, for there have been rumours they shouldn't work this way.
 
Heh. I was talking about how dumb I find the fact that a few bad apples ruin it for the good ones a couple days ago actually.
 
True, unfortunately.
It's how the world works.
 
Nah.
It's how certain groups work.
 
"It's how the world works" is no excuse for perpetuating behaviour you yourself deem unfortunate.
 
6:27 AM
Honestly, if there's a solution here it's probably less wishful thinking. Someone touched on this earlier: conflicting ideas about what the goals of chat are. That, with a bit of effort, we can probably fix, or at least improve.
doesn't mean everyone's gonna be happy, but perhaps at least they'll be a little less confused
 
Considering the strong bias against us I'm feeling confident the goals will just go against most of our wishes.
But maybe I'm just a cynic.
 
Is there a suggested mechanism for dealing with people that irritate everyone in the room to the point they're almost universally plonked? Room owners don't have the power to completely remove them from the room, I gather...
 
@ScottW Under normal circumstances, you. Under exceptional circumstances, whoever it spills out on.
 
I've posted my thoughts on how I think chat should be like on meta multiple times and in a way I've found that you've agreed on at least the basis of it.
 
and yes, I'm using the irritating collective "you" in that assertion
 
6:29 AM
Most of the time you don't though.
I'm using the personal "you" there. As in @Shog9
 
heh
 
If they're ignored, no one will notice when they're doing mean things to the newbies.
 
user406009
@jaggedSpire I don't think that's usually a problem.
 
I'd assume room owners automatically lack most of the luxury of plonking
 
user406009
Those people tend to not stick around.
 
6:30 AM
@Lalaland because most of the room here is already engaged in the same for various slights?
 
@Rapptz I've done the same. Doesn't mean anyone reads it. Much less everyone. And that's where we get into trouble; no matter how much y'all like being here, if there are half a dozen conflicting ideas about what the purpose is then sooner or later those'll clash.
 
That's not true, Scott
 
I think the core idea we have is shared across most rooms.
 
GCC outputs interesting errrors when fold expressions are involved
 
How each room has their own culture and the like.
 
6:31 AM
See also: rightfold's vagina incident
That's dismissive
 
56
A: Lounge C++ frozen by mod?

Shog9I haven't looked into the events that led to this room being frozen at all; I just woke up and it seems that Tim and the SO mods have handled it just fine. However, I do want to address the notion of double-standards regarding topicality that've been raised here... Rooms that are clearly off-top...

 
There are several examples on meta and on the transcript
 
Like this is just a fundamental way that chat works.
It's just how human communication is, people tend to go off-topic every so often, usually temporarily but we're all together encompassing a single core topic (C++, Python, etc).
 
user406009
This room goes more off topic than most though.
 
Citation needed
 
user406009
6:34 AM
Well, at least more so than the JavaScript room.
 
this room gets a lot of traffic, period
 
And programming in general too
 
Bro just a couple lines above you see Luc talking about a C++ error.
 
user406009
We also have a lot of political/ethical debates
 
and pictures of cute animals as of recently. I regret nothing.
 
6:35 AM
cute animals are the worst
Anyway, enough of this for one day. I gotta get some sleep. Will revisit chat guidelines tomorrow.
be nice to your mods, please
 
It has to be reciprocated m8
 
I'm a robot. I'm not nice to anyone.
 
@Shog9 I'm a soulless monster, I know. :(
 
That's rather inflexible of you.
@ScottW That's the word the cynics love.
@ScottW You're arguing against compromise. I did all the counterargument I feel justified on that: "that's inflexible".
 
6:45 AM
@ScottW See, now that's an obvious example of a strawman argument.
Then take nothing.
 
@LucDanton ?
a % 0 isn't defined is it?
oh wait
you have a custom operator overload lol
 
@LucDanton Maybe it's a right fold?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes how is my foo {} being divided?
 
So foo {} % (0 % 0), and thus error.
 
or divising
oh yeah that would do it
@R.MartinhoFernandes it is a right fold
 
6:49 AM
Have we moved on yet
@LucDanton horror
 
number one advice if you’re doing a custom fold(f, z) op ... op pack thingy, don’t put a conversion operator in there
 
I have
 
Luc so edgy
 
unless you find an unproblematic operator but myself I’ve settled on %/%=
 
no that's not the word
 
6:50 AM
I'm using asyncio in python
I am kind of hating myself.
 
on-the-edge*
no good gpu questions today again
 
did we get a conclusion to the co_fuck keywords
I see VS2015 Update 1 still uses await/yield.
 
number two advice: do use a right-associating operator for right-fold as I’m doing in my actual code (%=) but not in the program above, your brain is wired to read it that way (hopefully)
 
What do you use that for btw
 
@Rapptz they use placeholders in the latest papers, which should mean 'nope'
yeah come to think of it fold(f, z) % ... % pack works for left-folds but not right-folds
there’s no f on the outer % blahs
 
6:53 AM
return yield/return/await pls
 
So, what platforms are the contenders for Lounge<in Exile>?
 
Also in Python you can't use yield in an async function
 
the PHP room
 
async def foo(): yield 10 is a SyntaxError
 
otoh that wouldn’t explain why my test passes ._.
 
6:55 AM
works fine with @asyncio.coroutine though
 
@wilx I'm not leaving.
 
@wilx I'm not leaving either.
IRC blows.
 
how would i return a variable with a getter method by passing the name of the variable as a string?
 
@Rapptz oh I guess I see what the @asyncio.coroutine fuss is all about then
 

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