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user406009
7:01 PM
Isn't a tensor just a multidimensional array?
 
;)
And how would that array transform?
 
user406009
Well, scalar multiplication and addition would be trivial ...
 
user406009
There is also other tensor operations you can read about ...
 
Apply GL(n,R) to it?
 
@Lalaland Not "how would one implement a transformation", but, given a tensor represented by such an "array" alone, how do you read it's transformation rule off from that array alone?
"its" not "it's"
 
user406009
7:12 PM
Aren't the transformation rules defined by the code? You define a tensor manipulation in code and that's how the tensors get manipulated.
 
user3790646
@decltype_auto You can edit your own message
 
@Andrey: was 2 late
 
user406009
@Andrey There is a time limit.
 
@Lalaland: if you use a class that decorates that "array" with its rank pair and information about the base of its current representation, then yes. But that's not just a plain array..
 
okeydokey.
you can now build Wide on Linux, and run the tests (but apparently not just once, you can only repeatedly re-run them infinitely), all of which fail.
 
Ell
7:20 PM
that sounds odd
What platform specific stuff does Wide use?
 
erm
not a lot.
it's mostly shit about like trying to find standard library include paths, and executing other processes for tests.
took me 999 years to fix the tests last time, turned out it was because the LLVM process management stuff they ship was broken on Linux ;p
 
Ell
I might attempt to compile it again
eh
 
it's down I know
 
Ell
where is your repo?
 
github
I haven't committed this stuff yet though ;p
 
Ell
7:23 PM
ah kk
 
I should do, though.
 
Ell
@ElimGarak have you heard of khronos.org/gltf before?
 
Hi Lounge :) I hope you're all having a good day!
 
Ell
hi
 
pushed
install-deps will build LLVM and Clang from source, so it may take a while.
well, InstallDependencies.sh
 
7:32 PM
@Ell Yeah, it was introduced back in 2014. But you know... OpenGL is as relevant as Kyrostat.
 
@Puppy I sent you some terrible code, in case you feel like looking at it :P
 
Ell
@ElimGarak but but webgl
 
@Borgleader Where did you send this aforementioned terrible code
 
Pinged you last night
 
Ell
@ElimGarak also is it really that irrelevant?
is it more irrelevant than dx11 is before dx12?
 
7:33 PM
it's substantially more irrelevant than any version of dx
@Borgleader You may want to be more specific
 
Wait why is OpenGL irrelevant? Isn't it the only cross-platform solution right now?
 
Exactly - why the foo would OpenGL be irrelevant?
 
user406009
No none cares about cross-platform gaming.
 
Windows and Xbox are DirectX, Playstation uses proprietary APIs for over a decade. Metal is the only viable option on OS X as it only does OpenGL 4.1. Pretty much the reason for the gaming void there. And nobody gives a fuck about everything else.
 
user406009
Windows completely owns the PC gaming market.
 
7:35 PM
And that holds for CAD et al and scientific simulations???
 
user406009
And then you get the stupid network effects: DirectX has the best tooling and drivers, so game developers use DirectX. DirectX has the most games using it so it gets the best tooling and drivers. Etc, etc.
 
18 hours ago, by Borgleader
@Puppy So based on this example, found in this answer, I gave it another go but I still get a null ptr when I try to get the address of main :(
 
user406009
@decltype_auto Scientific simulations is OpenCL or CUDA.
 
Yeah CAD is pretty important. Even plotting in Matlab, Python, and R can't just be DirectX
 
It can be, but it isn't. Big difference.
 
7:37 PM
And then Chrome and Firefox can't be pegged to just DirectX or Metal
 
@Lalaland: they may want to look at graphical depictions of their data , don't they?
 
The only reason people use OpenGL is because they don't know any better. Not because it is good for anything. It's an ancient piece of shit.
 
and btw - what about 3D modeling in general?
 
Most tools have switched to DirectX and stuff like Modo even does Metal on OS X.
 
@Borgleader I don't actually know anything about ORC, but I have observed that you don't have any finalize call in it. MCJIT required you to explicitly finalize() before you could do shit with it.
 
7:38 PM
Even the modern API?
And what about Vulkan then? Same oversight
 
Vulkan is going to have a bitching issue once it comes around as developers have been doing DX12 for 2 years.
 
Ell
and vulkan only 1.333 year
vulkan will be used on android though
 
No, Vulkan isn't even close to DX12 in terms of development timeline.
 
Then, fortunately for me, not every customer yet "knows better"
 
Vulkan is lower level right?
 
user406009
7:40 PM
And timeline is very important due to network effects.
 
Vulkan and DX12 do the same thing. Only DX12 has been doing that thing for years and developers have already integrated support for their new projects.
 
Ell
vulkan is on the same level as dx12
 
Really? Hmm.
 
user406009
@Ell I highly doubt you would see much reuse between PC games and android games.
 
Ell
someone could probably develop vulkan on dx12
minus support for tiled renderers
@Lalaland I doubt that also
 
user406009
7:41 PM
Completely different levels of hardware available.
 
@Puppy Yeah, on the execution engine as I recall. I'd be surprised if they forgot something so simple, but I guess nothing is impossible. I'll try that when I get home. Thx for taking a look.
 
@Lalaland But it would be a good thing
 
Ell
well I kinda doubt it
actually no, you will see reuse
reuse of code but not assets ofc
 
Vulkan will be useful on Linux distros and that's pretty much it. For all 5 developers that decide to support it.
 
PhoneGap for JS app?
 
Ell
7:41 PM
@ElimGarak I don't get this - don't game engines support opengl?
like unreal, unity, etc.
 
Also, Valve.
 
Ell
@Puppy is there any reason I couldn't build boost dynamically for wide?
 
@Borgleader The most obvious thing I'm seeing here is the use of parseIRFile. God knows what the input IR is or how parseIRFile mangles it.
 
Valve is using Vulkan for SteamOS
 
@Ell No, I chose to it statically simply because I didn't want to mess with people's existing systems.
 
Ell
7:42 PM
okay cool
 
user406009
@VermillionAzure No one is going to use SteamOS.
 
@Ell OpenGL implementations are just meh. I've run Unreal on OS X and Linux where it had to defer to it, it's terrible and pretty much broken. I actually posted some pics of Slate going berserk on OS X.
 
Ell
@Lalaland they will, eventually
 
user406009
I'll believe it when I see it.
 
@Ell Nope
 
7:44 PM
I don't remember how new Wide's Boost must be, but I'm pretty sure that I had to upgrade from 1.57.
 
That's never going to happen. I'll suck a dick when it does.
 
user406009
Because right now Windows is the better gaming product by far.
 
Ell
@ElimGarak you really don't believe it?
You think windows will be the only gaming platform forever?
 
user406009
@Ell Yes. The only decent competition is Android.
 
Nope, it's both unlikely and a stupid idea. I have no interest in supporting Valve's monopoly. First distribution, then OS. Fuck that shit. Especially as it has no merit or upside. They're literally trying to do the same thing elsewhere.
 
Ell
7:45 PM
so you think in 100 years we will still be gaming on windows?
 
Got to cook now; c u!
 
Linux won't exist in 100 years. Computers as we now them either.
 
Ell
@ElimGarak now this you must be kidding about
 
user406009
@decltype_auto Have fun!
 
dude, it's a hundred years.
in technology.
 
7:46 PM
You do realize the span of a century? Things will change so much you'd be stumped.
 
whatever exists then won't be anything like the Linux we have now, even if it evolved from that.
 
Ell
okay maybe 100 years is a little ambitious :P
 
user406009
Well, I don't really care about 100 years either.
 
user406009
In 100 years, we are all dead.
 
user406009
(Except for the help vampires, those people seem to live forever)
 
7:47 PM
Way it works now, Windows is desktop gaming, Xbox / PS / Nintendo is console gaming (all running proprietary APIs) and mobile is the place where Vulkan might take some effect. On OS X and iOS, you have Metal, so I doubt they'll just scrap their work (however shitty) for Vulkan.
 
user406009
@ElimGarak The mobile gaming market is complete shit though.
 
Yeah, I can't stomach mobile games. Only things I like are ports of desktop games like KOTOR or GTA.
 
I can't stomach mobile anything
 
user406009
The problem is that there is only money is those freemium "games."
 
Everything so broken
 
user406009
7:49 PM
Where the entire design of the game is to have bad gameplay.
 
Ell
@Lalaland you never played doodle jump?
 
The next big thing will be someone who actually does something severely better than others. I don't see the point of this Steam machine, it's like Valve is trying to muscle in on the console market on top of their distribution platform on 0 grounds.
 
Ell
angry birds, etc.
 
user406009
Valve should go back to making games.
 
user406009
They were a lot better at that.
 
7:51 PM
Yeah, they really gave that shit up. :/ I am surprised they're honest and not embellishing their hardware surveys. Which are really going against everything they claim. Or maybe that 1% is them embellishing it ahahah
 
Ell
@ElimGarak what do you mean on 0 grounds?
 
user406009
@Ell There is no demand for their new SteamOS product.
 
user406009
It doesn't solve any problems or help in any way.
 
Ell
Oh I see
I think there is demand
 
@Ell The net value of going over is 0, I'd even dare say you lose some when you go over.
 
Ell
7:55 PM
It's for console people that don't know how to build a pc :V
 
@Ell There's nothing that SteamOS can do that Windows can't do, and Windows can do a lot of things better.
there's just no selling points for SteamOS.
 
Ell
There are selling points for steam machines though, surely
they are a gaming pc in console form factor
and there are selling points for the steam controller
 
yeah but the console form market is satisfied by consoles
 
Yeah and developers are developing consoles first and then just cranking settings up for desktop. So, being in that middle, you get all of the flaws and none of the gains.
 
a console form factor simply isn't compelling.
I don't have any use for a console form factor.
 
Ell
7:57 PM
I wish I had a console form factor pc
 
and no controller can beat kb&m
 
Ell
lugging this thing to and fro uni is a nightmare
 
why is fallout 4 so ugly :(
 
@ScarletAmaranth why do you care
 
@ScarletAmaranth I got an answer.
 
Ell
7:58 PM
@Puppy using kb&m from a sofa is quite hard imho
 
But I don't feel like uploading 25 pics to imgur ahahah
 
user406009
@Puppy Controllers can beat a keyboard. It's the mouse which is hard to beat.
 
@milleniumbug because I like pretty
 
@ScarletAmaranth blows @ScarletAmaranth's head off with Red Flare
Annabelle's better, though
 
user406009
Fallout 4 isn't that ugly.
 
7:59 PM
@Ell I don't possess a sofa and don't want to game from one.
 
user406009
Beauty in video games is overrated.
 
user406009
Gameplay = king.
 
Ell
@Puppy okay
 
Ell, just get a PS4 or an Xbox One. That way, you even get console exclusives.
 
it would be shit to be playing games and then not be able to shittalk people in the Lounge on the other screen at the same time.
3
 
8:00 PM
@Ell kb&m from the bed or from the bathroom is even more difficult.
 
I remember once going to clean my keyboard in the backyard
 
user406009
Are you implying that shittalking here isn't a game?
 
and pressing a lot of keys
 
user406009
We even have a scoreboard!
 
and it all reflected in the lounge
 
Ell
8:00 PM
@ElimGarak they are not worth the moolah
 
@Ell Steal one? hides
 
@Ell And SteamOS is even worse.
 
Ell
I wouldn't use SteamOS
 
Then buy a PC, bby. Put in some i7, some SSDs, some 64 GB of RAM, some Fury X2s (well, they're not out yet...) and you're set.
 
Ell
I have a PC :V
but it's in a massive fricking case
I regret so much getting this case
 
8:02 PM
Why does Alex M. say "I miss LRiO"? Did he go anywhere? [out-of-the-loop]
 
He left
 
He had problems with us abolishing slavery and started the Bar confederacy.
 
@CaptainGiraffe we turned off the light
 
fortunately we lost him a while ago
 
@milleniumbug hehe
 
8:02 PM
Stopped coming here, and I don't know if he's still even posting
 
Ell
he wasn't that bad
 
He was fine.
 
Yes, he was. He was Bartek on steroids.
 
@набиячлэвэлиь no no this is gonna be better:
@CaptainGiraffe he fell off his orbit
 
Ell
Meh
not enough people in here are optimistic
 
8:04 PM
I like React.
 
@Ell ...which doesn't fill you with determination
 
@milleniumbug k, two cryptic answers I fed to JackTheRipper. Still have no clue. Banned?
 
more like ragequit
 
@Ell yeah
 
Ah. Thanks.
 
8:06 PM
@CaptainGiraffe He left because he got mad. Voluntary Ragequit, then started Bar<C++> where he talks to himself sometimes.
 
Ven
@Elyse mlton
 
Well looks like he's still here
 
user406009
@milleniumbug The problem is that idealism is also heavily related to determination.
 
@ElimGarak I'm sorry about that, he is IMO a welcome addition here.
 
user406009
Positive people are often driven.
 
8:07 PM
Who is this good guy LRiO people keep talking about?
 
user406009
@ElimGarak His name is Lightning Rages in Orbit.
 
@Lalaland races right?
 
@VermillionAzure no, rages
 
Ell
He was making a joke :p
 
8:09 PM
ahahahahah. oh, man.
 
Ven
damn; golden js and php?
 
LRiO is opinionated, educated and often correct. Sometimes he misses the tone of the conversation, quite in the same manner Puppy sometimes does. .
 
I just think it's mean to just push anybody out. I mean there does come a point but at some point you should try to be nice and explain nicely what somebody is doing wrong or not
 
user406009
@CaptainGiraffe Which sorta describes Bartek in some ways ...
 
Oooh, now I wanna hear your description of Cinch
 
8:11 PM
@Lalaland I suppose most of us at a degree.
 
@CaptainGiraffe Not me. I'm not educated and I'm often wrong.
 
Ven
@CaptainGiraffe woof?
 
user406009
@CaptainGiraffe Some of the people here are very apathetic.
 
Yeah, if that description of LRiO were true, he wouldn't ragequit. I remember a condescending, opinionated, seldom correct prick who even on his best days, gave compliments interleaved with insults. But I am glad he embraced Jesus since I left in 2013 and obviously changed his life around and totally didn't go and start Bar<C++> like an angry 5 year old.
 
Ell
Ohgawd I have an idea
 
8:13 PM
@Ven No, not at all. It is just my opinion and impression.
 
Ven
the lounge is mostly comprised of assholes :). i'm proud to be part of.. wait
 
It's not difficult to not be an asshole. Most of the Lounge is nice.
 
@ElimGarak Now there's an opinion I don't share.
 
It's like you assume people don't have thresholds
 
8:16 PM
I see LRiO as someone who loves to dish it out, but can't take it.
 
@Ell Hm?
 
Ell
:3
You'll see it soon enough
if not I'll have to delegate to a willing volunteer
 
If you need a role model for being nice, take @TonyTheLion.
You can be correct without being a dick. Which is probably the best way of not getting your ass beat up in public.
 
Ah, for fucks sake. I'm utterly afraid of the TonyTheLion every step I take. He has been harassing me for as long as I've been here.
 
wat
 
8:18 PM
I want to get roasted. By Lounge.
 
Ell
@VermillionAzure ...spit roasted? ;)
 
@Ell Whoa
 
@VermillionAzure Isn't that like every day
 
@VermillionAzure Write a tutorial and post it here.
 
@milleniumbug But today is different
TODAY IS THE DAY I DIE
go.
 
user406009
8:19 PM
@elim Sehe is the nicest person here.
5
 
user406009
By far.
 
@Lalaland Oh, yeah, he's very nice.
 
@VermillionAzure ...nope can't do it
daaaaamn
 
Ell
There is no "nicest" person here
 
hah, I made a cool 40cents playing the old exchange markets :D
 
8:21 PM
nais
 
@Ell Yeah, I guess... Your mom should really join us sometime...
hides
@TonyTheLion There are murmurs here of the lion harassing the giraffe.
 
Goddamn it.
 
Damn, cinch, you suck. xd
Yeah, teeth are the worst.
 
Oh god.
 
We have @Lalaland's Stargazer which still undeletes deleted messages.
 
8:25 PM
@ElimGarak wut
 
7 mins ago, by Captain Giraffe
Ah, for fucks sake. I'm utterly afraid of the TonyTheLion every step I take. He has been harassing me for as long as I've been here.
 
Hello again.
 
ahoy
 
@Morwenn hi
@ElimGarak what
 
@milleniumbug It's the name of our new song :D
 
8:27 PM
"our" as in?
 
@milleniumbug My band.
 
ah cockmonkeys.
the Travis default built environment has only gcc 4.6.3
 
@Morwenn You have a band? Cool.
 
@milleniumbug Yeah, we play celtic metal.
 
Here's Fallout 4's frame broken down, just images in sequence of the most relevant steps. Some images have had transforms performed to make them easier to see.
 
8:34 PM
@ElimGarak some of the post process and particles and some lighting is nice, but everything seems really low poly and foliage is rubbish
 
Yeah, the lighting is mostly direct and the only advanced bit of lighting is the volumetric effects which are courtesy of Nvidia. Characters also get huge boosts so they kinda stand out and feel out of place at times (stenciled out and differently lit), probably for visibility to compensate for problematic lastgen lighting. Also, its "HDR" pipeline is merely R11G11B10, so you practically don't need a tonemapping op.
 
@milleniumbug nice
 
I think it's the foliage that I mind the most
 
Lounge, what do you think about this - github.com/Microsoft/GSL/issues/171#issuecomment-156225974 ?
 
Have you reached the Institute yet?
 
8:39 PM
nah I am currently lvl 3 only, leaving the second station thing I've stumbled upon (with a cave beneath it)
I really wish everything looked like witcher 3 :9
the game is so pretty
 
Ven
Sehe isn't nice, we're just not smart enough to figure out how he's insulting us.
 
@Morwenn strange
 
Ven
hah! I actually got more rep than @Morwenn :P
 
@Ven Well, I don't have much rep.
 
Ven
8:42 PM
@Morwenn elyse used to say that, now she got twice mine :P
 
Rep doesn't matter
 
Ven did you get that much rep
3
 
@набиячлэвэлиь Of course it does, you can get food for rep.
 
@Ven Look, I've been here for more than three years. I think it's enough of a proof that I'm not even trying.
 
@Ven Yeah, does gravity pull or push?
 
Ven
8:43 PM
@milleniumbug When I posted Venn diagrams
 
I tried to gain reputation on Code Review at some point, but Barry answers all the interesting questions.
 
@Ven Maybe because he has soo many converted Roxas fanboys
 
@Ven When diagrams are called calendars, bruh.
 
@Ven oh you
 
Bonobooooooooooo... Cirrus.
 
8:46 PM
@ElimGarak That's a good song. And the video is cool too.
 
AHHHHHHHH
YES KH3 IS HAPPENING MORE INFO
 
Ven
@Morwenn hah! I tried on CR as well, but I'm too bad a dev for that. Only time I got rep was thanks to something I myself thought was wrong (ended up right... idk?)
@Morwenn maybe try some codegolfing? it's pretty fun :)
 
@Ven Some of the advice I provide is questionable anyway.
@Ven No, I don't like challenges.
 
Ven
@Morwenn as questionables as the questions? :P
 
@Ven It depends.
 
Ven
8:50 PM
@Morwenn learn J, it's fun for code-golding! or APL
.oO( how to make yourself a rightfold in 42 steps )
 
@Ven Meh :/
 
Ven
@Morwenn write some blog posts about your sorting library?
Wait, why am I recommending you ways to spend you time? We were talking about rep. sorry
 
@Ven Lol, nobody cares about that library.
 
Ven
Writing is fun still. Idk. Like, writing a talk about something. It'll make you wonder a lot about it.
'tleast in my very, very, very small.. experience
 
What I could write in blog posts is already in the documentation. With comments about the algorithms used, the original research, and how to properly create a sorter.
 
Ven
8:54 PM
ok. then I'd still propose the talk idea?
 
I won't write about the black magic that somehow makes it work.
 
Ven
Trying to condense it, finding ways to make it "look good at first", etc, is interesting as well
Why not?:)
 
Talks? I think that I'd feel like I'm boring people who attend it .____.
 
Ven
@Morwenn Everyone always does. Everytime. Much like you often feel like you're talking too much about yourself in a 2-way conversation
 
@Morwenn What talks do you like to listen to?
 
8:56 PM
@CaptainGiraffe I never listen to talks.
 
@Morwenn Then your point stands.
 
I read almost all the slides from CppCon 2014 and 2015 though.
 
@Morwenn Even youtube talks? never?
 
@CaptainGiraffe Never. After 2 minutes I can't stand it anymore and I close the tab.
 
I suffer from the TL;DW syndrome
I can read a lot of text though
 
user406009
8:58 PM
@milleniumbug 2x speed is the answer
 
Yeah but transcripts would be better :P
Jul 16 at 23:35, by milleniumbug
IOW the most valuable thing about programming videos are the transcripts so you can avoid watching the video
 
Haha, yeah :D
 

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