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22:00
@exitc0de Haha weren't you the guy who wants to make their own game engine?
@Nooble That was a jokeish
Anyway
I wasn't going to make a full fledged game engine
@exitc0de Don't worry, I started with the same goal.
So if y'all think sehe is nice. I can thank sehe for giving me a spot in the spotlight. Local news: "Best Teach!". University ceremony(Captain Giraffe: you need a penguin suit! -I'm a bloody Giraffe!): Artillery and a nice ceremony with a Diploma.
And ended up with Icicle, the greatest game engine.
@Nooble I'm waiting for a course on Unreal
I'm going to learn some more C++ and then I'll work on an sfml/sdl game
22:03
@exitc0de I've had a few hackathons with unreal
@Nooble Definitely the coolest one
I love how our lecturer uses char* c = "..."; and goes "yeah, I know how to do it properly, but I can't be bothered"
... and then modifies the string literal
I didn't bother correcting him, that makes a hopeless impression
@exitc0de They inevitably ended up with my students showing me neat stuff.
@CaptainGiraffe Try vitamin B+ trees. Extra nutricious
@sehe We will be hardcore on RB left leaning trees.
22:06
R&B trees for lefties
Flanders won in the end
@Columbo oh god why
Would it be better for me to use SFML, a C++ library than SDL which is written in C even though SDL has better(ish) documentation?
Ven
Ven
@Columbo ..well...
@CaptainGiraffe BSTs are just another fling. True love is reserved for B+ trees.
22:07
@exitc0de Head first OpenGL.
hi Nooble!! :)
@Nooble 2d m8
@JerryCoffin We can only have one mistress.
SFML does weird things with lifetimes, also no timers
Don't use SDL 1.2
SDL 2 is tolerable, but so is Allegro 5
Truth to be told. I'm starting with 2-3-4 trees!
22:10
oxygine engine looks neat
@CaptainGiraffe dude everyone knows that 2^34 trees are better
2 to the two to the five times two two times is nice
@Puppy True, but do you really want your 5 year old kid exposed to 2^34 trees?
yes
@TonyTheLion Hi.
@Nooble sup?
inb4 homework
22:15
@TonyTheLion histery homework
@exitc0de OpenGL is great for 2D.
@TonyTheLion Global History homework!
pure OpenGL?
@Puppy Ah so you are too a Giraffe?
@Nooble You're gonna be a master at history
@exitc0de Hell yeah.
22:15
Oh
@TonyTheLion The history of his face
@TonyTheLion Hell yeah.
GLFW is still being developed wat
@Nooble :)
@CaptainGiraffe A problem I don't have right now (my formerly five year-old turned six earlier this week).
22:16
I thought it was abandoned
@exitc0de Of course!
<3 GLFW.
there are rust bindings :)
Screw their input thingy though.
@Nooble I'm out of stars today, fuck. (TS = Theoretical Star and you're supposed to apply a star to it)
I'll have a go with GLFW
22:17
@набиячлэвэлиь TS?
Does linking libraries etc. require using CMake or something if you don't use an IDE??
@exitc0de Check Icicle for amazingly (broken) examples.
But that's a female lion
Or lioness, if you will
@exitc0de it requires that you write the correct linker options...
22:18
Also check my website for a friendly 404.
@JerryCoffin Ah so your dear is moving from 8605 to 68000. Nice.
@TonyTheLion The kind only a large, strong man can withstand, even if it is friendly.
@JerryCoffin Most certaintly
@JerryCoffin s/man/white man/
inb4 racist
22:18
@exitc0de Nope. But CMake makes it easier.
My offensive fortune cookie for today:
Q:	Why do men die before their wives?
A:	They want to.
@Nooble No, it doesn't
use [waf
You'll have to generate the makefile anyway.
@набиячлэвэлиь Yeah it does.
@Nooble If I send someone else my game, they would have to build with CMake or
@набиячлэвэлиь I dunno about that--his neck doesn't look particularly white.
22:19
fak I'm dumb
@exitc0de if you send your source code, yes
if you send just a binary, no
@exitc0de No you don't need an IDE or build tools. We basically just write command lines. Sometimes accelerated/organized with build tools. Sometimes even those linked to IDEs. But in the end it is /all the same/. The compiler needs to be told what to compile, and the linker needs to be told what to link
And verily so at that
22:19
@exitc0de Makefiles are scripts that invoke whatever (compiler and such), CMake generates Makefiles and other build files.
@sehe isn't command line terrible on Windows?
aha yes
@exitc0de Meh.
It's perfectly fine
22:20
Get MSYS 2.
@wilx "Sir, if you were my husband, I'd poison your tea!" "Madam, if you were my wife, I'd drink it." (Winston Churchill)
@exitc0de it's usable enough (also see Powershell)
Let me rephrase, it's not as good as bash, but it's perfectly usable for what you're trying to do
22:20
I'm using ConEmu
@JerryCoffin :D
But msys2's pacman is great
@exitc0de so what. It's commands lines all the way down. Even if you didn't write them
damn oldschoolers :26846133
I have no idea what ConEmu is
22:20
@sehe Imagine my surprise when I got to a bunch of c++ students for their third course, and they couldn't explain the compile/link step.
user1804599
I noticed I'm happier when wake up if I brush my teeth before I go to sleep.
@JerryCoffin Excellent.
user1804599
Sometimes I forget/CBA to do it before I go to sleep.
@CaptainGiraffe You didn't teach them the first two courses...
@VillasV Fix the link!
22:21
@OMGtechy I just tried to find anything better than whatever the one that ships with Windows is and found it
@sehe Happened last week. My jaw dropped and broke the floor.
@sehe You forget/Centralne Biuro Antykorupcyjne? what
I actually quite like it
fair enough
@CaptainGiraffe You pay the damages
22:21
@sehe No. Unfortunately
Meh, not worth the effort
@sehe Fortunately I have a good war-chest.
Just get them to read The International Standard
If I could do it, everybody can!
@набиячлэвэлиь l o s e r
How do I make binaries for some source files then?
22:23
@exitc0de cimpol and link them
@exitc0de that's what compiling does
@набиячлэвэлиь I absolutely know what that means
@exitc0de You run it through your compiler and it turns it into a binary.
@exitc0de make
22:23
In the case of a game, an executable.
@Nooble nah
Through the toolchain, sure
@набиячлэвэлиь Yah.
But not the cimploler itself
Is there any IDE that isn't as shit as VS that does this for me :P
Whatever.
22:24
I'm going to have to use CMake
@BartekBanachewicz With more hours you get more playable titles
VS is a great IDE
@exitc0de g++ and st3
@exitc0de dude with, VS is the one thing Microsoft got right
22:24
@exitc0de on Windows, you'll want to use the Visual Studio command prompt most likely. Type cl to check the compiler is there, and then play around
@Nooble I have ST3, that's what I use for rust, I still have to do linking and stuff tho?
@OMGtechy Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
@exitc0de If you find VS shit, you might have a problem.
C++ tooling is bad in general
Meh, the IDEs are
But nobody cares about IDEs for C++
22:25
It probably isn't, it's pretty bloated though.
~~bloat~~
It does a lot
That's like the least of your problems
@milleniumbug explodes
@exitc0de Linking is done by your compiler-toolchain-whatever-fuck-nab.
I <3 Nab.
22:26
@Nooble by the linker, you dumb bum
You're complaining it's bloated, but now you're also wondering how on earth to work without it, that bloat is doing the work for you :P
@набиячлэвэлиь Butbut.
Well yeah.
@набиячлэвэлиь compiler compiles, linker links, make makes
toolchain does it all
well, indeed it is quite bloated it even requires windows installed on my machine
22:27
@VillasV What are you tryinna say?
But people call g++ a compiler :P.
@Nooble ❤
@Nooble it is
VS isn't for me, I'm learning. Too many buttons.
@набиячлэвэлиь Time to update my browser.
GCC is the toolchain
22:27
I like to keep it simple
@набиячлэвэлиь And g++ can link, no?
@набиячлэвэлиь just complementing the list of self-evident truths
@exitc0de VS is making it simpler for you
Or ironically more complicated
^^
22:27
It invokes ld
still, you should learn about these things
@Nooble sure, but it just delegates the job to the linker
@набиячлэвэлиь Oh, right.
@exitc0de go with vi then, or better yet notepad
22:28
Ah fine, I'm dumb :(
I use Code::Blocks and compilation/linkage/annoying things just work.
This Villas dude is so bad of a troll
Plonk imminent
@набиячлэвэлиь it's as if you aren't
@VillasV I like ST
@milleniumbug But trolling isn't my primary activity
I mean, just look at the dude's messages
22:29
@exitc0de frankly on Windows you're going to have the best time with the VS toolchain, you can use it without the IDE if that's what's bothering you
Code:: Blocks is a good option if you just want syntax highlight and hit the compile button
@OMGtechy Noooooooooo
Why don't you like it :P
@OMGtechy Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo‌​o
22:29
Why not MinGW.
@OMGtechy yeah the feature is reintroduced
@OMGtechy Last time I tried, the VS installer didn't work. Best user experience ever.
How do I link GLFW with my stuff then
@OMGtechy the IDE is a better part of VS
22:30
@OMGtechy EmEsVeeSee is the most utter shit in exsitence right now
@milleniumbug indeed
SO MANY PINGS
@VillasV And CppCheck. But that's pretty much it.
@exitc0de inside VS or outside?
@OMGtechy Just leave and don't be bothered :P
This has confused me because when I was setting up SFML with VS I had to link a load of inter-dependant files and it never worked.
22:30
if you're just using VS compiler with other IDE, it's combining bad tooling with bad compiler
I will take it like a man
@exitc0de You compile GLFW.
So I want to do it manually or use something else for ST
And then you link it.
By using your IDE/toolchain's linking-thingy.
@exitc0de instal msys2, ten install mingw-w64 with pacman therefrom
22:31
@milleniumbug I haven't had a very good experience with mingw
yeah nab is right on it ^^
anyway, all this is silly, just pick something @exitc0de and start doing it
Rust makes this easier. I hate this stuff.
I have
Rust is wonderful, yes
Sublime Text, ConEmu and GLFW
22:32
Rust sucks
rust is too safe
4
@exitc0de You've got two thirds of that right
apparently
@набиячлэвэлиь which third wrong
Let me vi that Makefile for you.
@набиячлэвэлиь yeah don't use rust on your tools
22:33
@exitc0de The middle one
@набиячлэвэлиь what's wrong with it?
@exitc0de Use cmd/msys2
I like PowerShell, I've almost abandoned cmd
std::cout << lang << " ";

if (lang != "C++")
    std::cout << "sucks";
else
    std::cout << "pays well";
You are not very good with boolean logic are you?
22:35
:D
@Jefffrey ?
@OMGtechy std::cout << lang << ' ' << ((lang == "C++") ? +"pays well" : "sucks");
I prefer mine
You guys don't like linefeeds?
There is no spoon linefeed
22:36
@OMGtechy The one you just stepped on?
@OMGtechy It's C++ the language that sucks
Only like Perl and C somehow manage to beat it
and Java and PHP and Swift
also PHP
and Javascript
and Bash
did anyone mention PHP yet?
user1804599
22:37
Dynamic typing is like two homophobes kissing in public: disgusting.
let's not forget PHP
And PHP.
For some reason I've spent that last few days writing HTML and CSS, even though I'm a C+++ developer who knows nothing of either
Ok, so I have GLFW installed, which files do I put in my project folder for st?
Sometimes PHP and Java are less of a pain in the ass
22:37
PHP is clearly the winner
user1804599
PHP has a GC and is therefore better than C++.
try putting it in your face.
@exitc0de It depends.
user1804599
Garbage collector master race.
What a sacrilege
22:38
user image
8
You can be a man and compile from source or just use the binary provided.
PHP has dynamic typing therefore it's worse than C++
msys doesnt have a tree command
For the goals C++ tries to achieve, non-GC is the best option
22:38
@Nooble Did you get around to cimpoling Gaem yet?
therefore it is clearly worse
@Jefffrey or at least, not enforced
@EtiennedeMartel So soon?
My favourite language so far has to be Python
No, GC really doesn't exist in C++
You can create it using C++, but it's not in the language
22:39
@Morwenn Indeed, releasing a remake 6 months before the ten years anniversary of the original is a bit premature.
Boehm GC
@набиячлэвэлиь Not yet.
They could have a least waited until fall, ya know.
there's an official support for plugging one
@Nooble doooo iiiiiit
22:39
(Do you feel old yet?)
@Jefffrey I'm too lazy to find the Cpp2015 talk where Bjarne talks about the GC API
which is irrelevant, because I don't know any that supports it
Do I just paste in GLFW and GLFWnative :P
@milleniumbug What's "official"?
@EtiennedeMartel 10 years? Noooo, I'm already that old T____T
22:40
I honestly didn't think that you were a ten-year-old
@exitc0de you're better off understanding what you're trying to do than just aimlessly doing what we tell you
but now I know
user1804599
@milleniumbug C++ has dynamic typing therefore it's worse than C++
The C++ standard probably never mentions GC
@Jefffrey std::declare_reachable and others
22:40
@OMGtechy Nah
Probably right
@Jefffrey It not only explicitly mentions GC, but it defines some support for GC.
But its late and I haven't written a line
@exitc0de header says there is a definition for a function by a certain name somewhere, library provides said definition
user1804599
@Jefffrey In fact, there are standard library features offering GC-related facilities.
user1804599
It is optional for an implementation to offer a GC.
22:42
How do sort the file tree out
@exitc0de Do you understand the whole "interface vs implementation" thing?
Eh
So I put the GLFW files in a folder and dump everything else outside
Oh, since C++11
Interesting
22:42
fak
@exitc0de What.
I dunno what you're doing.
@Nooble Do you understand the whole "compile gaem" thing?
Just put libglfw3.a in a folder and point g++ to it.
@набиячлэвэлиь Wait how do I compile?
@набиячлэвэлиь yes it's "make nabijacz do it"
What is C++?
22:43
@exitc0de dealing with external libraries can be a bit of a pain in Windows. Not VS fault though.
Help, cout is not a member of std!!!!!
@milleniumbug hehe
@Nooble Nooblel.mumble or die
@набиячлэвэлиь At friends house though. That's awkward.
The single best thing about Perl
@exitc0de Just put GLFW header files in /usr/local/include and object files in /usr/local/lib or anything in your $PATH and then link to it while compiling.
22:45
@Nooble In short: install waf, in cloned Gaem run waf configure, if succeeds run waf
@Jefffrey (s)he's on Windows IIRC
If you are on Windows... well. You are on your own.
Next time you buy a better OS. :P
Or don't buy one at all
@набиячлэвэлиь Help, g++ is unknown internal or external command.
Wait what is C++.
Now how do I make a ST build system
oh dear
22:47
How do I get on the internets.
its all gone wrong
@exitc0de ctrl b
Or ctrl shift b
@OMGtechy ++;
69
C++++
22:48
@exitc0de If you're on Windows you usually need:
- Add the header files to VS Compiler additional directories
- Add the compiled library to the linker additional directories (usually works better to include the single a.lib file directly)
- Put the DLL in the path
oh damn
depends when you read
@VillasV I'm using Sublime Text 3
rip
@VillasV Literally everyone thinks Windows users exclusively use VS.
I probably should use VS
@Nooble indeed. Why else would anyone use Windows?
22:49
So, if C++ is using postincrement ... does that mean it'll get better eventually
In which case we should all switch to ++C, it's already better
Windows is more convenient that Linux.
brb
Ell
Ell
fatal error: CodeGen/CodeGenTypes.h:
meh I cba with this :/
not while my system is so fragile
Wide defeats me again :O
@OMGtechy but C++ is backwards compatible
clang clang clang
We need ++C++
@OMGtechy perhaps D--
22:54
Is running linux in a virtual machine on Windows actually practical for programming
Because I don't want to reboot every time I want to switch between
@exitc0de experience says that if you dualboot, you will eventually drop windows. beware
@exitc0de Not if you wanna do anything graphics.
@VillasV I really won't. I play games and use windows only tools.
I need Unreal Engine
@exitc0de then you're safe and should dualboot if you want to use Linux as development platform.
@exitc0de Unreal Engine is porting to Linux though.
Is setting up libraries and such really much easier on Linux?
22:59
@exitc0de nah
Is -llibname really that hard?

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