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1:00 PM
you that driving implies turning the circular thing as well right
 
you mean the wheels
well yes how would the car advance otherwise
 
no the thing that's in front of your face
 
you mean your mom
 
@Ell totes have to
 
sbi
@BartekBanachewicz No. The mods call this "a personal suggestion". I don't care how the fuck you call it, but I am sick with this polluting the transcript with so many stupid and unnecessary discussions. From what I hear you drive rather irresponsibly, and as a father of kids I'd rather you stop that. Short of that, not bragging about it would come a long way to keep this room civil, though.
 
1:02 PM
how the intercourse you call it*
2
 
sbi
Oh intercourse all you.
I'm gonna play now!
 
have fun and don't let gandhi get the nukes
 
sbi
@user703016 I'm sure he has them already. :(
But I'm gonna get that intercourser!
 
What, did they do a port of graphviz?
 
1:06 PM
@sbi woah. I know you're mad at some mods, but no need to take it out on me.
but clearly kids run across the empty highway at 2 am routinely so I'm essentially equal to a serial killer for you, so I'll just stop now.
 
Gotta love Microsoft, they'll copy anything, and then people actually start using it like it's the best thing ever.
 
if they kept doing the same shit over and over again you’d blast them for doing so
 
In the meantime I'll allow you to "pollute the transcript" with your BS while I hang out on IRC.
 
sbi
@BartekBanachewicz I am not mad on you, and what I take out on you I have with you, not with anybody else. I do not have a car – or even a driving license FTM –, and there's reasons for this. And I am a father, remember? Young idiots driving like they consider themselves a puny copy of Schumacher are one sure way to drive (ha!) me up the wall.
 
If they'd actually create value by being innovative instead of evil, I wouldn't have reason to blast them.
 
1:09 PM
nice try Aaron
What next, Microsoft bombing Syrian refugees?
 
I dunno
they seem to have innovated the only OS with usability worth a damn
just to start
 
There are preexisting standards. Does Microsoft follow them? No. They basically copy whatever the idea is, and try to do it "better" - and with billions of dollars, rarely succeed.
 
which standards, specifically, are you considering?
 
boring
I give you 3/10
 
1:13 PM
That's overly generous
 
You're right, boring. Let's go back to meta talk.
 
why does python have so many nice utilities?
 
ah I see
 
Love your pic.
 
stupid useful language
 
1:13 PM
so you don't actually have anything in mind
just wanted to bash Microsoft.
 
Yes, I'm a MS hater. :)
 
aren't we all, secretly
 
then ya can fuck off, I have little interest in entertaining trolls at this time.
 
puppy didn't get the memo about intercourse
 
@Rapptz dw it’s a stupid useful ecosystem
 
1:15 PM
Excuse me, I'm not trolling. see chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/message/27345600#27345600 where I calmly drop the subject.
 
raising it in the first place is trolling.
 
what, it's not like bringing up politics or religion, I'm only like a little dogmatic.
 
doesn't matter.
what matters is that you raised a topic but then actually had nothing to say and no interest in debating it.
that's a pointless waste of time for all concerned, and is trolling.
 
ok, so you are telling me that by persisting I will prove myself not to be a troll? I thought it worked the other way. Ok, so I think Silverlight and file paths are two great examples of what I was talking about.
 
Silverlight is just them trying to compete with Flash, really.
considering Flash's dominance of the browser market I'm quite happy for them to give that a shot.
of course they're both going the way of the dodo now with HTML5 but the principle was worth pursuing
 
1:22 PM
Considering that they are both out, I'm happier now.
 
HTML5 means more intrusive screamers
:D
 
as for file paths, if I recall, Windows file paths are basically derived from DOS file paths, which originate from about the same time or earlier than POSIX file paths.
 
First it's GNU/HTML5
 
so it's hard for me to accept that there was an existing established standard at the time.
not to mention that there was hardly any need for them to be even remotely compatible at the time of invention, since networking and the Internet were so poor, if at all existent
 
Unix (all-caps UNIX for the trademark) is a family of multitasking, multiuser computer operating systems that derive from the original AT&T Unix, developed in the 1970s at the Bell Labs research center by Ken Thompson, Dennis Ritchie, and others. Initially intended for use inside the Bell System, AT&T licensed Unix to outside parties from the late 1970s, leading to a variety of both academic and commercial variants of Unix from vendors such as the University of California, Berkeley (BSD), Microsoft (Xenix), IBM (AIX) and Sun Microsystems (Solaris). AT&T finally sold its rights in Unix to Novell...
 
1:31 PM
 
lol
@AaronHall That doesn't make it an established standard. It just makes it another operating system.
 
@LucDanton #sarcasm
 
@user703016 I'm up
 
all night for good fun
 
ok, now I think I'm being trolled.
 
1:34 PM
@Rerito Places and days you'd be available for a mini unconference?
Btw @Luc I think I didn't ping you but vous êtes cordialement convié bien entendu
 
@user703016 I've got the week between the two eves
 
there's a large difference between "Following an established standard" and "Just do whatever one competitor is doing"
 
@Rerito 26 to 30?
 
Who was that one competitor?
 
@user703016 That's about it, I have also some days off yet to take
 
1:37 PM
Noted, thanks
 
it really doesn't matter who they were.
 
They were legion
 
@LucDanton #sarcasm
worth
 
Windows is legion
 
@user703016 this was p. good
 
1:38 PM
possesed by many daemons, yes
 
would chuckle again
 
according to our great friend Wikipedia, Unix started in 1969 (wasn't even officially Unix until 1971) and DOS in 1973.
hardly long enough for Unix to become a de facto standard.
besides, if Microsoft had just followed in Unix's footsteps, we would never have had a useful consumer-facing OS.
 
@sbi My employer promised to pay. As time went on, they put it off until they had to take action which was to finally decide that they didn't want to anymore. I didn't have enough money to pay for all of it, so I couldn't go.
 
sbi
@Mr.kbok Ah, that sounds bad. Well, make sure you point them out the early bird rate for ACCU2016 so you can go there.
 
@sbi I'll make sure to point them out my resignation letter, actually.
 
sbi
1:46 PM
@Mr.kbok Well, this might be even better. :)
 
@TonyTheLion did irc die
 
user1804599
lol
 
@AlexM. Read error: Connection reset by peer
 
user1804599
When I hit F5 in VS and it opens the console application, it has the Rust logo as icon in the task bar.
 
apparently for you only
 
1:48 PM
> Disconnected (No such device or address)
that's what I saw
 
user1804599
 
ACCU is cheaper considering it's quite longer
 
@AlexM. yes that’s how irc works
 
Another meta-post it appears.
 
user1804599
Delete it.
 
1:51 PM
@LucDanton wot so it's my fault it happened?
I'm confused as to what happened
 
@AlexM. pls tell when you encounter your first netsplit
 
bby's first IRC
good times
 
user1804599
Primarily opinion-based. Flagged, I'm sorry. — skypjack 1 min ago
 
user1804599
> You were wrong, so I'm sorry.
 
user1804599
great logic
 
1:57 PM
spoilers #disgusted
 
> It doesn't make us elite hackers born with an ability others don't have. 2 centuries ago half of us would already be dead from our curiosity because we tried to create a wingsuit and fly off a cliffside or something of that sort. Thankfully now we have computers to keep our curiosity in check.
2
 
spoilers are #fun
 
Didn't John Carmack build space rockets or something on the side? :)
 
2 centuries ago there were perfectly good orphans to pay for testing stuff
 
I think Carmack owned a space company thing, not just built rockets :P
 
1:58 PM
@fredoverflow Armadillo Aerospace
 
@LucDanton No need to pay them if they die ;)
 
"Bring back child labour" -- Luc Danton 2015 presidential slogan
 
exactly! that way you know they really try
 
Microsoft and IBM conspired to do DOS in 1980. Do I blame Bill Gates directly? Yes. Yes I do. He was the mastermind.
 
Capture orphans in plane-shaped lambdas.
 
1:59 PM
speaking of child labour
 
MS-DOS best OS
 
a builder on my tropico island is 16
 
yesterday, by Luc Danton
@набиячлэвэлиь you should be down in the mines, not in front of a computer
 
:thumbsup:
 
lol
 
2:00 PM
By the looks of the starboard, we are not in the clear yet. :c
 
@user703016 No! Intercourse you!
 
You guys should expose a male reproductive organ to partial vacuum and create a pressure differential.
 
user406009
I am so happy Inmate 703016 was unbanned. This is the glorious chat I was missing.
 
Cicada is love
 
user1804599
lol, some guy claimed ISIS is the result of global warming.
 
Ven
2:09 PM
@Elyse it's ISIS, not ISICE
 
can be
 
user1804599
lol, some rabbi claimed education for women is worse than the holocaust
 
user1804599
kohlrabbi
 
Shut the intercourse up
 
user406009
@Elyse Most of these Abrahamic religions have pretty similar core values.
 
2:11 PM
This is intercoursing awesome
 
user406009
Core values that are unfortunately sexist.
 
user1804599
dump core
 
Segmentation fault [core dumbed]
 
@Nooble Not at 6:00am I wasn't
 
@Rapptz eh... seems to be a theme of the republican party
 
2:22 PM
> Disease Threatens 99% of the Banana Market
NOOO
not the bananas
 
user406009
@Mgetz That was actually one of the main parts of Newt Gingrich's policy ideas.
 
@Lalaland you know I have friends that joke about how far back the republican's want to go... I'm thinking they want to go to 1830. Because they seem to want a system where we're on a specie currency. It's legal to own slaves, and indentured labor. Women don't have the right to vote or really do anything. etc
 
user406009
@Mgetz Well, except for the military. They want us to have the strongest largest military ever.
 
Fair enough
 
2:28 PM
@AlexM. weird part is that all bananas have the same taste, I assume that's the only one type exported
I heard there are many more outside of europe
 
it's about the ripeness
I like mostly green bananas
the taste is subtler but easier to enjoy
 
I buy the slightly green bananas because they survive longer when not eaten
 
ripe bananas are very sweet
so it's harder to feel the underlying taste
and yea ripe bananas don't last too long :P
 
@AlexM. Cavendish? Likely will become extinct here within the next decade or so, don't get used to eating them
 
I don't like bananas with black spots
 
2:30 PM
@milleniumbug plantain tastes markedly different from Cavendish
 
@LucDanton plantains are not bananas
 
@Mgetz I hope not :<
they're the only fruits I can eat at any time
 
Cavendish bananas are the fruits of banana cultivars belonging to the Cavendish subgroup of the AAA cultivar group. The same term is also used to describe the plants on which the bananas grow. They include commercially important cultivars like 'Dwarf Cavendish' and 'Grand Nain'. Since the 1950s, these cultivars have been the most internationally traded bananas, replacing the Gros Michel banana after crops of the latter were devastated by Panama disease. == History of cultivationEdit == Cavendish bananas were named after William Cavendish, 6th Duke of Devonshire. Though not the first known banana...
 
well other types of bananas are ok too
 
there will be other banana varieties, just not cavendish
 
2:34 PM
 
@LucDanton looks like I was wrong, Plantains are bananas
 
loop control variable i's type should be deduced as initializer_list in C++11 & C++14 but program still compiles & runs fine without error. Why? Shouldn't I get compiler error?
 
> so smart the monkey knows he needs to peel the banana
^ youtube comment on a vid of a monkey eating a banana
 
@Mgetz fitting for a banana-shaped, banana-tasting (although admittedly very mildly so) fruit
 
I wonder what she'd do if she saw a crow use tools
 
2:41 PM
@LucDanton: what is your opinion sir?
 
@PravasiMeet my opinion is that you are annoying
 
isn't pravasi LRiO?
 
@PravasiMeet sounds like a great language lawyer question aside from the fact that there is a difference between {1} and {{1}}
 
@PravasiMeet Please read the rules and ask questions on Stack Overflow
 
@LucDanton: oops sorry. may I know why you think like this?
 
2:42 PM
lmao
 
@PravasiMeet no
 
guys
dumb question
 
yes
 
dumb answer
 
user1804599
dumbass-cactus
 
2:43 PM
are the GPIO pins of the raspberry zero as capable as the arduino's?
 
@AlexM. you can't get anywhere good if you start like this chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/10?m=23600530#23600530
 
Ell
@Mr.kbok yes
Oh wait what do you mean?
 
@milleniumbug lol
 
@milleniumbug oh lol
 
Ell
Keep in mind you need an RTOS if you want to use them for something RT :3
 
2:44 PM
@Ell do you have analog read/write?
 
Ell
Ah wait
No then I don't think so :P
 
@Ell ohh
 
Ell
No ADC included
I thought you meant current wise
 
I was just wondering why would someone choose an arduino when you get more power and equivalent functionality with a $5 raspzero
 
Ell
Idk why I thought you meant that
 
2:46 PM
@Mr.kbok those hardware extensions
arduino shields and all that
 
you have raspberry shields too
 
> When should you choose Arduino? When the main task is reading sensor data and changing values on motors or other devices. Given the Arduino’s low power requirements and upkeep, it’s also a good choice if your device will be constantly running and requires little to no interaction.
 
thanks
 
also the raspberry pi is pretty big
 
Those don't even compare
 
2:47 PM
there are these really tiny arduino things
 
One's a goddamn computer, the other is an outbroken microcontroller
 
^ tiny arduino
 
Ell
@Mr.kbok arduinos are much simpler I guess
Less power hungry also
 
@набиячлэвэлиь they really do
 
@AlexM. or massive coin
 
2:51 PM
good point
 
@user703016 $100 coin
 
@user703016 you know what else is massive
 
@Mr.kbok ah the famous quarter of $400 coin
 
@milleniumbug your mom
 
user1804599
2:52 PM
Awesome.
 
is that supposed to be a fanny
 
@Mr.kbok a... a what
 
a beep
@AlexM. what's this little guy's name?
 
2:55 PM
might as well get a trinket
it's pretty dank
 
Xeo
Welp, I went and pulled a giant Robot. Forgot my bag in the tram.
Luckily, there's pretty much only clothes in there (including the MeetingCpp and Lounge shirts).
Unluckily, I also stashed my keys in there so I wouldn't lose them while I was out & about...
@Andy I'm so sorry about yesterday. :<
@AlexM. It's Konpaku Youmu from Touhou
 
lol, so many reviewers are saying that the surface is microsoft's attempt to take on the iPad Pro
 
3:12 PM
@Xeo Hope you find your bag :)
 
@Mgetz Didnt the surface come out first?
 
@Borgleader by a few years yes. Hence my amusement
 
appletards will be appletards
 
> Would enter victims' homes at night and kill everyone with axes, meat cleavers, hammers, and shovels. Executed in February 2004. Known as the "Monster Killer".
 
Ell
Ah this train is so slow
 
3:22 PM
chromiums source code has a lot of commenting which is good i guess
also they use mostly the same style of formatting as I do which is also nice
 
user1804599
interface Writer {
    abstract def foo: Writer;
}
 
user1804599
whoo recursive interfaces work
 
user406009
@Elyse How does that work? Are all your types nullable/heap allocated?
 
Ell
foo returns a writer
 
user406009
Oh, oops. Didn't see the abstract.
 
3:27 PM
@Prismatic maybe your style is clang-format with the chromium preset? :D
 
user406009
For a second there I thought there was a member variable named foo which was a Writer.
 
the formatting may be nice but the code is a rats nest
it doesnt matter that its open source, its practically obfuscated
maybe thats an exaggeration but still
 
cool i've got a temperature sensor here
 
@Xeo :/
 
@Mr.kbok hot
 
3:30 PM
@Puppy So if I want to add support for overload resolution, I guess that when I lookup something in the symboltable, it will return me a set of results instead of just one? and then I will chose one out of the set?
 
Ell
Well it kinda does I suppose
I don't think it'd be sensible for interfaces to support member variables, it doesn't make sense imo
 
I can see it reacting to changes, but I'm not sure how much I can trust the reading
 
Ell
Does it return a degrees c or some analog value?
 
it's supposed to be 10mV per degree
it reads 50 celsius in front of my computer's fan which I find a bit high
 
does it say degree Celsius? :p
 
3:34 PM
yeah :p
OUTPUT
0 mV + 10.0 mV/°C
from the datasheet
 
@Borgleader Typically, you will look up in the symbol table, and get one result. That result may be an overload set. When you call the overload set, pick one to call and call that.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I saw this and was curious if you watched it imdb.com/title/tt1754656
 
@Mr.kbok hm. leakage? put it in a freezer to establish baseline?
 
IIRC you had everything little prince (hope I'm not targeting the wrong person)
 
@melak47 lol
 
3:36 PM
@AlexM. You arent, robot has a bunch of copies of that book
 
I need a thermometer I can trust to check if this one's right
 
Nov 18 at 10:05, by R. Martinho Fernandes
Welp, ordered 90 euros worth of Little Prince copies.
 
@Mr.kbok measure your temperature, see if you have a fever. that could explain it :p
 
oh and by the way
smart man designs his overload sets so that you can unify them
 
@Puppy unify?
 
3:39 PM
make one overload set with the overloads of two input overload sets.
 
@Puppy Hmm yeah, I think I'm going to need to overhaul my symboltable because I designed it with what I thought I would need and now i,m tiptoeing around it because I have no idea how to nicely handle getting types from functions vs getting types from variables, and I'm not sure if I should store the alloca for the variable in the symbol table
 
there's lots of cases where you may need to find overloads from many locations
 
@Borgleader "It's the year 2150, humanity is on the brink of extinction after a nuclear holocaust. A small group of survivors searching for fire material stumbles upon a big metal box."
dramatic music ensues
 
@Borgleader Wide's symbol table is primarily the AST.
 
"Robot's The Little Prince stash."
 
3:41 PM
Robot is a little prince.
 
luckily, enough books for humanity to rebuild its future
 
really symbol tables aren't that complicated.
 
@Puppy in wide, you can pass an overload set around, right?
 
it's just a list<hashmap<string, expression>>
yep.
 
o.o mine is uh... more than that. i may have overcomplicated things?
 
3:42 PM
so calling foo(Callable c) with whatever leaves the overload resolution up to the actual call?
 
yep.
@Borgleader Yep.
 
I like that. [](auto&&... args) { return foo(std::forward<decltype(args)>(args)...); } in C++ just doesn't have the same ring to it :p
 
SymbolTable, essentially as I go through the ast (either for parsing, or for codegen) I have a view on the symbol table's current scope, with which i can do operations on it. I didnt use a straight hashmap because well what about variables with the same name in different scopes?
 
it also doesn't have the same semantics.
 
@melak47 listen to the call of Niebler
 
3:45 PM
@Borgleader That's what the list is for.
it's a simple list of scopes, and in each scope, there's one variable with each name.
then when you're looking someshit up, you just go down the list of scopes until you find one with that name (or cry like a little girl if you don't find it)
 
user559633
that's a really good explanation ("it's a simple list of scopes...")
 
@LucDanton I can't hear it, what is he saying?
 
also I'll help you with another way in which you're overcomplicating it.
 
@Puppy Well its not really a list I mean, its more like a tree, each top most scopes can have multiple inner scopes and all that, or do you somehow assign a global idx to each scope?
 
3:46 PM
you never find functions in the symbol table.
 
only variables.
 
three.js in UE4... neat I guess
 
@Borgleader Yeah, but you don't give a shit about any of those other inner scopes when you're looking up into it.
you don't really need to think about them
just keep them alive, if you reference them after you're done analyzing them.
otherwise forget them
 
cant wait for my holiday
2 more weeks
 
3:49 PM
@Puppy Well theres one case where I need to. When im doing code gen, if I want to call a function whose definition is later in the file from where the call is, i need to look it up so i can create its signature (llvm::FunctionType)
 
that says to me that you're doing it wrong.
the analyzer should not even be able to observe the source order.
the AST expresses source order only in location metadata, which the analyzer solely reads as a blob of data and never operates on, not in it's own structure.
when you parse the file, you should have an AST that allows trivial lookups into the contents, regardless of where they are in the file.
 
So... you lookup the function from the ast, not the symboltable?
 
yep.
 
huh... thats going to require quite a bit of changes...
 
or to be more generic, if you find someshit in the symbol table, great use that, otherwise, look it up in the AST
and it doubly helps if you use overload sets as values because then the distinction between finding a function or overload set and finding a value disappears.
you're always just finding some value and you don't give a shit where it came from.
 
@Borgleader You're going to run in to an identical problem if you have things like lambdas, namespaces/modules, etc
the symbol table only really operates on function local variables, or whatever else you consider to be in function local scope, you should be able to find by and large anything else in the AST.
 
0
Q: Do the same action at the end of the try block and all catch clocks in a try-catch statement

ConstructorIs it a way to avoid code duplication (FinalAction function call in all catch blocks and in a try one)? try { // some actions including creation of new objects FinalAction(); } catch (const Exception1& ex1) { ProcessException1(ex1); FinalAction(); } catch (const Exception2& ex2) ...

seriously... why don't people think about RAII
 
@Puppy What about (non-)static class members?
 
because this is a terrible use of it and it's bad.
 

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