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12:00 AM
@sehe <3
 
I will do the rest-taking thing.
 
@BartekBanachewicz lol
It's hard, ain't it?
2
 
@sehe I just want to thank you for all the effort you put in despite the incredible madness. It is, despite everything much appreciated. :) <3 I'm sorry you had to endure it.
3
 
Oh come on
 
12:01 AM
I had a whole speech on how the friction between us and the mods and the meta devil makes us strong and unite.
And something else, but I think that deep down everybody knows that.
Those that claim IRC would be better, just forgot
 
@sehe you just need to give fewer fucks :) - drop every other fuck or so
 
@Jefery Funny how I was thinking about that earlier
 
No only The Room matters
Platform above all
 
user1804599
constant true = 0 = 0;
constant false = !true;
 
Praise The Room!
 
user1804599
12:03 AM
Awesome!
 
Oh yeah, I had a whole section on the platform too
 
@ScarletAmaranth Actually, I think everyone should give more fucks, and not raise a mess of derailment at the slightest opportunity. But. I'll think it over.
 
Maybe I'll write it down tomorrow
 
@Jefery Well. If that somehow makes it right, I'm happy to opt out
 
Well, there are things that are difficult, but that make us grow as a community
Shared pain is one of the strongest reasons for unity
"Common enemy" and all that
 
12:05 AM
@TonyTheLion Appreciated
@Jefery I don't believe in that.
Well. Not in this case.
 
What's different in this case?
 
Enemy of my enemy is just another jerk I'll have to deal with at some point
 
@sehe I think this happened because as the entire mess started, nothing out of the ordinary was actually going on (right there and then) - so people felt like someone was "invading their sandbox"; only a great amount of extra fucks would somehow diffuse the situation right then - fucks most of the lounge isn't willing to attain
 
I don't think it's about "enemy of my enemy" really
That would imply that we are enemies, which is simply not true
 
It's because it's imaginary enemies. It feels like a waste of ... energy. But more. I just don't believe in any of that. Mods are not our enemies, never have been, don't need to be. If there's confusion, we should just straighten it out. End of story
6
Now, if you would have been talking about some trolls that - obviously - stepped in to have some fun, they would be "enemies", and that's fine with me. As long as our allies are not confused about us
 
12:08 AM
I think that they are our enemies. In the sense that they have different goals than us and they are not afraid of attacking us to accomplish those goals.
Their behavior is fair enough that I don't feel too much about it.
But they still have opposite goals than, at least, I have.
And they are more powerful than any of us.
 
And so it should be. I don't see the problem.
 
Sure
 
@sehe for president :)
 
I like this friction to be honest.
Just a little bit every once in a while.
 
You're not alone, I fear
 
12:11 AM
I found it rather exhausting, and I didn't even take part in much of it
 
Don't you agree that this unites us?
 
@TonyTheLion this
 
I don't feel that way, no.
 
Fair enough
Maybe it's all in my head
 
@Jefery Were all being put in one basket. Thats not the same thing as being united.
 
12:12 AM
If it unites us, it has to unite us to do better in the future.
 
"It" is in all of our heads. The problem is, "it" is not a single well-defined thing :)
 
@sehe if you keep this up I'll have to consider you one of my role models.
 
Sure it is, it's called SO chat policy
 
Time to install VS2015
 
@Borgleader Not sure what you mean
 
12:12 AM
@TonyTheLion there is that problem again; there was nothing out of the ordinary going on as the whole thing started
 
@Borgleader takes like 2hrs, just saying.
 
@Borgleader gonna play with the clang compilation? :D
 
@jaggedSpire ICEs on every other line; no exceptions, no RTTI (bye bye std::function)
 
@ScarletAmaranth And still we can do heaps better in the future. No contradiction at all.
 
We all "fought" together because one of us (Jerry) was mistreated. If that doesn't make us unite, I'm not sure what will.
 
12:13 AM
@ScarletAmaranth :(
 
Yes, things were unfair. And yes, things were very badly handled. Are we gonna play victim and bask in rebellion? Or are we gonna take responsibility for (very) bad communication on our side too?
10
 
@TonyTheLion If I check all the boxes is ssays itll take 28GB wtf
I'm gonna un-check some stuff
 
@Borgleader holy macaroly.
 
@Borgleader were you expecting something by Microsoft to be lightweight?
oh, you :P
 
@jaggedSpire Lightweight no, but ffs this is as big as World of Warcraft
 
12:15 AM
@Borgleader Last time I tried the installer didn't work.
 
@Jefery If by "fighting" you mean, argue in favour and be solidary, yeah sure. I'm with you. But if you mean mudslinging and bitch fighting, mmm. Not so sure we're united there.
 
@Borgleader Because it's a world better than MSVC2013. ayyyyy
 
lmao
 
@sehe ehhh, you don't need to strive to "do better" (whatever that means) if what you were doing was reasonably neutral, at least for the usual contex
 
Getting odd associations with hooligans here. (It's a stretch, but the theme is related)
 
12:16 AM
@ScarletAmaranth You can always strive to do better :)
 
I don't think we have any particular responsibility for what happened after the initial hit. Both us and the mods barked at each other for hours and many lounge casualties happened.
 
@TonyTheLion was expecting this kind of an answer... it's a bit flimsy
 
The original hit is what matters. Everything else is just chaos ensued because of that.
 
lol the universal apps stuf alone is 8gb
 
I know many are not of the same idea.
 
12:17 AM
Maybe if they were listening instead of going 'lalala can't hear you we're automatically right'
 
@ScarletAmaranth There was definitely things that happened from Lounger's side, heh even me personally, that could be much improved.
 
@ScarletAmaranth That's swapping the meaning of the claim out each time. Controversy is gonna happen, inevitably. Not because we did wrong, but because people will misunderstand/misconstrue. What happens next is where we need to grow up about.
 
Special MSVC fun today, this time with MStest. It told me it couldn't load the project dll or one of its dependencies, and listed the project dll as the missing dll. It was a different one, which I discovered by commenting and uncommenting lines until I isolated the error to an #include directive
 
@Jefery Full victim mode
 
he he
Well, yeah.
 
12:18 AM
Growing up seems to be what SE would like us to do. And frankly I don't think it's a bad idea.
 
Considering that no long term consequences happened to the "the other" side, I guess we are the victim's here.
 
@jaggedSpire I once had MSVC link in both debug and release CRT if some Boost thing was included in PCH
 
@Jefery And?
 
@sehe sure, but what happens next is influenced by the attitude of how "we" were treated by those who may have misunderstood an ARBITRARY line of chat without knowledge of years of general context and tone of the room
 
I don't think growing up means to never be victims.
 
12:18 AM
It works about as well as it sounds
 
@CatPlusPlus oh god
 
In this case we were victims.
 
@Jefery That doesn't mean we have to hold on to being victims.
 
Nothing will change anyway, so who cares
Waste of time
 
Lounge... Lounge never changes.
 
12:20 AM
We were victims. What does it mean to hold on being victims? We are not victims right now.
 
Sometimes I wonder what horrible thing I did in my life that I deserved MSVC2013, and debate whether it was worth it. Then I remember: no-one deserves MSVC2013.
 
I dont see C# in "Programming Languages" but in "Cross Platform Mobile Development" theres "C#/.NET Xamarin". Does that mean installing C# is not an option or did they file it under cross platform because fuck it?
 
Oh well. We don't need to agree. A lot of things happened on both sides that I feel bad about. And both sides can easily excuse their actions as being provoked. Stalemate.
 
IMHO the "attack" on Jerry was not right, and everything that happened after that resulted in only Lounge casualties due to the "riot".
 
@Borgleader C# compiler is installed with .NET
 
12:20 AM
Sure, some of us got out of hands and got banned.
 
Xamarin stuff is for mobile development only
 
@Jefery It means you can take responsibility and act as a grown up (yeah, I know). And not escalate things more than required.
 
Their fault is very small, and considering what they got it's still unfair.
 
@CatPlusPlus So I dont need to check anything to get C#?
 
@sehe so you think it's irrelevant who the initiator of belligerence was?
 
12:21 AM
@sehe Being a grow up doesn't mean take responsibilities for the sake of taking responsibilities.
 
Probably not, all of .NET stuff is needed to run VS itself anyway
 
Ok cool, thanks.
 
Growing up is admitting you have made a mistake... when you actually make it.
 
@ScarletAmaranth The only thing that matters in any conflict, is who will be the partie(s) that allows the conflict to end.
 
And act knowing that what you do has consequences.
 
12:22 AM
"Clang with Microsoft CodeGen" <--- definitely checking this option
 
@Jefery I forked it b4 i heard the goddamn diction
 
lol
 
@Jefery Like I said, you don't need to agree. Maybe we have different goals. It's all in our heads, remember.
10 mins ago, by sehe
"It" is in all of our heads. The problem is, "it" is not a single well-defined thing :)
 
It's all in my bottle
 
Not for long :)
 
12:23 AM
Hi @Nooble :)
 
True that
 
@Borgleader ^_^
 
@Borgleader rip
 
@TonyTheLion Hi!
Just got home.
 
Yay home :)
 
12:23 AM
Asking questions on here isn't allowed is it?
 
"Only" 11GB now, much better than 28GB :P (and more in line with what I was expecting)
 
@Borgleader I don't get (a) what it actually does (sounds like they ditched the parser/frontend and implemented it with libclang (b) can they actually do that without open sourcing stuff (dunno the clang license)
 
@EdwardSeverinsen Of course it is, you loveable being!
We're professional.
 
I know it won't be like that, but I'm fantasizing about having clang at work
 
@sehe well that doesn't sound right; starting aggression necessarily leads to retaliation (otherwise the hostile party can "do whatever it wants")
 
12:24 AM
@jaggedSpire hahahaha
 
@EdwardSeverinsen You might not get an answer
 
@sehe Yes, they can
 
@sehe they are open sourcing it actually
 
Oh cool beans, I'll give it a shot anyways
 
@ScarletAmaranth Carefully review the wording I chose
@Borgleader o.O
 
12:25 AM
That's why Apple ditched GCC in favour of sponsoring LLVM/Clang
 
@Nooble vc++ is a dark and twisted thing
 
> Contributing Back to Clang and LLVM
Clang with Microsoft CodeGen isn't just a private fork of the open-source Clang compiler. We'll be contributing the vast majority of the Clang and LLVM changes we've made back to the official Clang and LLVM sources.
 
LLVM is on BSD-like license
 
@Borgleader flips out
 
What does it do when you overload an integer like so: 1 <<
 
12:26 AM
[redacted]
And also [expunged]
 
@EdwardSeverinsen you mean operator<<(int, Type)?
 
No, it's very odd, I came across it in a function on MSDN while trying to make screen capturing software in winapi
 
And Clang uses the same license, so yes, they can both be integrated/forked into closed things
 
@sehe maybe I have some reading comprehension issues, but formulation stating "the only thing that matters is X" kinda implies that there is just one thing that matters, which is in your case the ending thing, making the "initiator" irrelevant
 
It's 1 << cClrBits
cClrBits is a struct
 
12:28 AM
maybe you could link to the article you saw that in?
 
@nick lol
 
because that sounds like they overloaded it with a nonmember function
 
@EdwardSeverinsen WORD cClrBits; that is an integer, so your operation is a left bit shift
 
12:30 AM
MUMBLE DAY
 
First of, the addendum "making... irrelevant" comes nearly from nowhere. Secondly, allowing the conflict to end does /not/ imply passively complying and dropping all self respect. You could retaliate. But how you choose to do so matters a lot. None of this is new.
It's basically assertivity 101
 
Wow, I feel like a noob
 
Are you?
 
@EdwardSeverinsen gotta watch out for those macros, typedefs and usings
 
Because then that would be a fine feeling :)
 
though the latter two are vastly prefereable. :P
 
Very much appreciated tony :)
 
@sehe I thought saying "the only thing that matters" implies that other things don't
 
Summary of last 3 days:
 
I've been doing C++ as a hobby for about a year now and have made mostly socket programs
I still need to learn alot :P
 
12:32 AM
C++ be hard
 
hm. The starboard time stamps are broken for me
 
Who's american in here?
 
@ScarletAmaranth They don't (unless your goal is conflict). You just assumed that allowing a conflict to end would imply dumb behaviour. You can't allow a conflict to end by just yielding everything (unless you're prepared to keep doing that forever, then. In which case, there really is no conflict at all, or you accept it never ends)
 
@Jefery Meaning?
 
12:33 AM
just refreshed the page and half of them went from "just now" to 25-30 minutes
 
@Jefery nooble, jagged, mysticial, jerry
is a few that come to mind
 
@Nooble You are american?
You were born in the USA?
 
Ah, no.
 
Gtg see you guys later
 
@Nooble How good is your american?
 
12:33 AM
And thanks for the help! :D
 
@Jefery wot
@EdwardSeverinsen have fun
 
@Jefery Huh.
 
Ok, I have this song that doesn't have lyrics
 
@Jefery Just keep saying you love guns
 
And I'm trying to reconstruct them
I need help in a section
I'm missing a word that is pissing me off
 
12:35 AM
Well. I feel slightly better about things now that I've voiced some of my concerns. And we've actually seen a new guy get helped o.O There's hope yet.
Time for bed. Night everyone
 
night
 
:) good night
 
well I can't help you there I don't understand the lyrics in English songs half the time. Granted, that's because they tend to skip or add syllables because they can't be bothered to come up with words that actually fit, but hey
@sehe night!
 
@jaggedSpire I tend to Google lyrics
 
@Jefery USA USA USA
 
12:36 AM
@Jefery Only moved to here in 2007. But don't think I won't join the chanting.
 
I don't like not knowing what they're singing
 
ikr
 
@TonyTheLion I just assume some jerk stuffed marbles in their mouths and they're doing the best they can, the poor fools
 
@Nooble omg youre a fake american
 
USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA!
@nick teehee
 
12:36 AM
@jaggedSpire lol
 
Are You French
 
Nope.
 
then you must be canadian
 
He's American now
 
He sounds American enough to me
 
12:37 AM
@Nooble From where?
 
Could have had me fooled any day
 
@sehe other things do matter - such as, who the initiating party was
 
I was born in the best place in south east asia.
The Philippines (/ˈfɪlɨpiːnz/; Filipino: Pilipinas [ˌpɪlɪˈpinɐs]), officially known as the Republic of the Philippines (Filipino: Republika ng Pilipinas), is a sovereign island country in Southeast Asia situated in the western Pacific Ocean. It consists of 7,107 islands that are categorized broadly under three main geographical divisions: Luzon, Visayas, and Mindanao. The capital city of the Philippines is Manila and the most populous city is Quezon City; both are part of Metro Manila. To the north of the Philippines across the Luzon Strait lies Taiwan Island; Vietnam sits west across the South...
 
@ScarletAmaranth That's a different meaning of "matter". Facts always matter, that's a given
 
12:38 AM
@jaggedSpire Nope he's an immigrant
 
@TonyTheLion You've seen pictures of me on facebook though!
 
@nick American. :P
 
NOPE AMERICANS ARENT IMMIGRANTS
 
I EAT CHEESEBURGERS
 
ok you win
 
12:39 AM
@sehe we couldn't simply reply with: "oh you see mods, what you did was not nice one bit! go and apologize to Jerry and we're even steven, all good, have a glass of wine and a nice day" - they were not having any of that
 
@Nooble Yes, but America has lots of people in it that were born there, that have parents that immigrated and stuff, sometimes generations ago. Could have easily been the case.
 
@TonyTheLion Ah I suppose.
 
@TonyTheLion Lies
 
@nick NIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIICK :)
 
12:40 AM
@ScarletAmaranth If we would have started with roughly that (we should have) and kept on being calmly adamant about it, a similar meta question might have resulted in a similar score (representing community agreement) but with the opposite sign.
 
All americans are indigenous masterrace
@TonyTheLion TONYYYYYYYYYYY
 
I just noticed I've been writing Metal code in the shirt I got from the DX12 team. In other news, Metal still sux.
 
I think you need to Mumble, @nick.
 
@ScarletAmaranth Patience is the key there
 
12:40 AM
Because Friday.
 
ok bb i thought u would never ask
 
there's nobody on mumble
 
Ell
@ElimGarak why?
I thought all the apis were p much the same
 
No geometry shaders, bby. Also, Objective-C, bby.
 
@ElimGarak now there is
come joint the party bby
 
12:42 AM
@ElimGarak not for very much longer bby. I'm gonna lurk so hard!
I'm gonna be the lurkiest
 
alright, bbys
 
@sehe a similar meta post with an opposite sign wouldn't have any effect, they are still in a privileged position and can clearly arbitrarily suspend people on random basis
 
Yeah. Well. Deal with it.
Of you don't trust the people who own the place, what will you do?
Sulk?
 
@jaggedSpire u can try
 
Kick it hard? Being destructive hardly makes it better
("ooh we sure made sure we weren't ignored!" - is a piss poort substitute for "I wish they would listen to what we said")
Don't fool yourself that it's the next best thing.
I was going to bed. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
 
12:45 AM
nooble is play piano
 
good night
:P
 
@nick <3
 
@sehe gn
 
night
 
@ScarletAmaranth was Jerry also banned?
 
Ell
12:46 AM
Night @sehe :)
 
@StackedCrooked 30 minutes
 
no reason
 
oh lets not go there again
 
Time to go to beer bed too.
 
12:46 AM
the transcript has everything
 
@Morwenn nn bb
 
@Morwenn nite
 
@nick kthx bb
 
user406009
So, what would you guys think of a bot which keeps snackchat and the IRC in sync?
 
user406009
12:47 AM
 
user406009
#test1 on freenode
 
(rare?) good read on Jeff's blog blog.codinghorror.com/…
 
user406009
It would allow people to gradually switch from here to IRC if they wish.
 
@Lalaland so soon, woah
amazing
 
user406009
We should also have special logic so that only certain messages get transferred from IRC to the Lounge.
 
12:48 AM
Make a bot that lives in the other SO chatrooms and invalidates flags x)
 
@Lalaland Yes filtering would be extremely important
 
user406009
According to the SO rules, such a bot would be legal if the ROs consented and the bot itself didn't say anything bad.
 
I don't want to have trouble in here because someone said something on IRC that isn't allowed here
 
user1804599
ha ha!
 
I do feel a bot like that is kind of silly, if I'm honest
 
user1804599
12:49 AM
constant ANSWER = 42;
def answer = ANSWER;
do answer;
// output:
\call_user_func('\define', 'ANSWER', 42);
function answer() {
return 42;
}
echo \call_user_func('\answer');
 
user1804599
constant propagation!
 
If someone wants to use IRC, they can just go there
 
user406009
There would also need to be magic "trigger words" to shut the bot down in case of trouble.
 
we can literally not oblige anyone to do so
 
@Lalaland I vote for "sod off"
 
12:51 AM
@sehe He's literally incapable of writing a paragraph without mentioning his shit 5 times
 
I don't care :| I suppose. I read the rest
I meant to say "I didn't mind" - sounds less down already :)
 
user406009
Anyways, the very, very rough code is at github.com/Lalaland/IRCBot.
 
user406009
If anyone is interested, I can continue the work on it.
 
@Lalaland Y U NO limit your columns to something like 80!! :-\
 
Ell
@ScarletAmaranth because we're not in the 80s :P
 
user406009
12:58 AM
@ScarletAmaranth It's a prototype.
 
@Ell do you really enjoy reading 150 characters wide rows?
 
user406009
Just be glad it's not written in Node.js
 
Ell
I personally wrap at 120
 
I tend to wrap around 100 but never enforce anything.
Aaaaaah, I just should sleeping.
 
12:59 AM
I wrap at whatever feels too wide
 
Ell
I don't insert newlines I just make editor wrap visually
 
seems to happen around 100-120
 
I'm out.
 

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