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7:00 PM
Not caring about repeating code has been a thing forever for terrible developers
 
user1804599
 
it can't be deduplicated, each monad needs it's own implementation of then/map/whatever.
 
I love how Elyse is also often the only one able to point out the fucking obvious.
 
@ElimGarak I don't want to pull the "how many people have you taught promises?" card or "at how many conventions did you talk about the design of promise APIs in front of thousands of people?" card. Trust me, I did see the statistics and there was real research regarding these APIs.
 
user1804599
7:01 PM
@Puppy You can deduplicate functions that use map, flatMap, etc.
 
@Puppy and you're writing that implementation every time you need to extract the value. Unless you extract it into a function (like you did), in which case my point is that you've extracted it wrong
 
@BartekBanachewicz most people using JS don't care about monads, they just need this one thing that also happens to be a monad. Once async/await lands, then could die for all it matters to those people.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Most people using JS are incompetent morons.
 
@Elyse I can do, but since we have literally zero functions that could operate on either a pending or a promise, that's really not something I need to do.
 
Not really, no. Drop the arrogance.
 
7:01 PM
Yes really.
 
user1804599
I don't know what a pending is.
 
ehh
 
They just happened to be a good abstraction for chaining actions, and monads do that, now that they have language support they don't care anymore.
 
it's like an optional but it can also say why it's nil, like still waiting on server, server error, etc.
 
If you "not care" then that's ignorance.
 
user1804599
7:02 PM
Oh ok.
 
If you not care and that impacts your code then you're incompetent.
And if you do it over and over, you're a moron
QED.
 
@BartekBanachewicz How has it been extracted incorrectly?
 
@BartekBanachewicz you care, you just disagree about the impact.
 
@Puppy it creates a specialcase on its own. If your monadic stack changes, you're stuck.
 
user1804599
I can imagine a function like function constant(x, f) { return f.map(y => x); } be used with both pendings and promises.
 
7:03 PM
if my monadic stack changes, I have much bigger problems, like 90% of our application being dependent on Pending.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Right, I forgot most of the JS codebases are expertly designed and written.
 
@Elyse You can, we just don't have any of them.
 
goland has such a weird syntax for the analogue of a Class
 
@Puppy refactorings of stack changes have been my pet peeve for quite some time and the solution is being more abstract, not less.
I M H O
 
@BartekBanachewicz most Haskell code bases are as shit.
 
7:04 PM
right, but none of those abstractions carry what we need.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum true.
 
when we use a Pending, we depend on it being synchronous.
 
Let me break that to you
 
@Elyse for interop you have fantasy land.
 
Most Haskell developers are morons.
 
7:05 PM
you can't use a generic monadic bind that may also be asynchronous.
it would totally break our code.
 
Not abstract enough
 
I don't understand - it's not like you compose monadic binds anyway.
 
monads abstract over runtime patterns, that's kinda their point
 
right, but I don't need an abstract runtime pattern.
 
It's not like you have a generic way to deal with a MonadA MonadB MonadC t anyway.
 
7:06 PM
I need this specific runtime pattern.
 
@Puppy that's what people say about every new thing
 
No, it's this thing people are using since the 80s.
It's not "every new thing".
 
seriously monads aren't really used in programming since the 80s
some people might argue they are still hardly used
 
Ven
APL programmers disagree :')
 
so m-word is ok?
 
7:07 PM
Promises are not new, and JS developers aren't using any other monads atm anyway.
 
But given that JS community is a bunch of simpletons who "don't care" anyway I can see how you can totally justify not introducing the clearly over-the-top concept over their poor heads
sigh
Bring me a ruby book.
 
@orlp My next video is going to be about recursive descent. I just finished the prototype, and it seems to be working.
 
what I don't have is any functions that can actually usefully operate on this abstraction.
 
2 mins ago, by Bartek Banachewicz
Not abstract enough
 
@BartekBanachewicz no, not really. They're mostly a bunch of people who'd rather get things done.
 
7:08 PM
well
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum you're all what's wrong in programming
 
Full time JS developers aren't as a group incompetent, just lazy.
 
apart from anything else, the constraints we operate under are mostly enforced on us by React.
so we don't really have a choice.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Oh right that absolves them from everything
@Puppy bummer
 
@BartekBanachewicz no, professionalism is about getting things done not about wanking off to theoretic beauty.
 
7:09 PM
Seems I won't be learning react then after all
@BenjaminGruenbaum there we go
 
Why? React is nice.
 
meh
React can handle this just fine.
it's just that render methods must be synchronous, which makes a lot of sense.
 
The only thing I'm surprised about is that it came so late in the discussion
 
@BartekBanachewicz it's true, I'd rather provide a library that caters 99.5% of developers and sacrifices theoretic bs any day. That's why bluebird has millions of downloads - it's fast and it gives useful warning messages in cases that are probably errors.
 
I mean if you ask React to render a thing but then you're like, "Well sorry, I don't actually have a thing", what the fuck is it supposed to do?
 
7:10 PM
FWIW @Benji what you're talking about is what's making programming shitty and annoying for me and why I'd ever consider quitting this profession entirely
but that's just a personal opinion
 
I think you need to read "The Clean Coder" and "The Pragmatic Programmer", hopefully last year.
 
it just doesn't even make sense to render shit but not know what that shit is.
 
Seriously, if I can give you one piece of career advice this is it.
 
so Bartek, what would you do in this situation?
 
nothing. Kill myself by driving into a wall.
bye.
 
7:11 PM
well I'm glad to say that instead, I developed an application
 
Bartek, you need to learn to utilize the power of the plonk bucket. You get seriously wound up.
 
Well, interesting discussion. I'm off.
Cya later peeps.
 
@BartekBanachewicz much offend
 
Taking Jabbascript debelobers seriously is a health hazard anyways, not sure why you indulge.
 
wow been here fr 30seconds and i already see salt
 
7:13 PM
@ElimGarak @nick should be taken super seriously
 
nick is beautiful
 
@StanleyDharan now we gotta get some pepper up in here
 
@jaggedSpire spicy isnt really my thing yah no?
 
@StanleyDharan awh
 
ayyy
 
7:14 PM
@Borgleader melts
 
@BartekBanachewicz I would say getting things done is more important than what you can do in theory. At least from a business standpoint.
and anyhow, Benji isn't a javascript developer
he does everything. very computer science
 
cpp.sh/9inw could someone explain why this doesn't work?
 
user3790646
lol
 
if (strcmp(tempTax, "y") != 0 || strcmp(tempTax, "n") != 0)

this is always true
@StanleyDharan
 
user3790646
7:24 PM
@bitcode Problem is, why is someone using a web-powered compiler? xD
 
@bitcode so would there be a way to check if tempTax is not either "y" or "n" without doing 2 separate if strcmp?
 
@Andrey because Why Not
 
user3790646
@nick Yeah, why not...
 
Xeo
fml
 
user1804599
!std::set<std::string>{"n", "y"}.count(tempTax)
 
Ell
7:28 PM
wtf guys I'm so confused
 
@Ell sup
 
user1804599
@Xeo why :(
 
Ell
I'll show you a screenie of this presentation
 
@Elyse could you explain what that does?
 
Ell
 
7:30 PM
regular opaque type
 
Ell
I thought you usually defined structs in header files
 
well, only non-opaque ones.
 
Ell
oh wait
you declare in header file
Eh I'm so confused
What do you mean "non-opaque"?
 
Yeah I'm confused too
 
ones where the user of the header file is allowed to see the contents.
if you allow them to see the contents, you put the contents in the header.
 
7:31 PM
Why would they use such a garish shade of blue in the background
 
else you just declare the struct and pass/return pointers.
 
non-opaque ones are those you want the user of whatever struct to trample all over its entrails
 
-2
Q: Why do we need WAR? if we can create JAR and deploy it on servlet container

BhanuChaddhaWhy do we need WAR? if we can create JAR and deploy it on servlet container.

^^ dat title
 
Ell
right
 
user1804599
Opaque types allow you to change the representation without recompiling all users.
 
user1804599
7:32 PM
See also pimpl.
 
professional means not very good at programming right?
attending meetings etc
 
Ell
c is weird man
 
user1804599
@Mysticial "we" used like that always makes me cringe.
 
this has nothing to do with C.
it's a fundamental fact that a) you can't use opaque values, and b), pointers are always concrete, even if you point to an opaque value.
 
user1804599
It's simple separation of interface and implementation.
 
7:34 PM
@StanleyDharan if (strcmp(tempTax, "y") == 0 || strcmp(tempTax, "n") == 0)
 
user1804599
if (ParameterTypes.Count != otherFunctionType.ParameterTypes.Count)
{
    return false;
}
foreach (var pair in ParameterTypes.Zip(otherFunctionType.ParameterTypes, System.Tuple.Create))
{
    if (!pair.Item2.IsSubtypeOf(pair.Item1))
    {
        return false;
    }
}
return ReturnType.IsSubtypeOf(otherFunctionType.ReturnType);
 
user1804599
Some of my C# code is really ugly.
 
that foreach is a fairly simple Any, btw
 
user1804599
I should use more LINQ.
 
user1804599
Yes.
 
7:35 PM
@Elyse you've never seen my PHP code! if you saw it, you'd cry blood
 
Tried to access Ell's pdf
> This appears to be the first time you have tried to access protected pages on the Computer Science web site with your current browser since the recent upgrade. You need to sign on (i.e. log on) to the site using the method below.
Such high quality content obviously needs to be protected from prying eyes.
 
user1804599
return ParameterTypes.Count == otherF.ParameterTypes.Count
    && ParameterTypes.Zip(otherF.ParameterTypes, System.Tuple.Create)
       .All(pair => pair.Item2.IsSubtypeOf(pair.Item1))
    && ReturnType.IsSubtypeOf(otherF.ReturnType);
 
user1804599
Very nice. :)
 
@Mysticial lol, someone needs to make a container type called LUV
 
LINQ is pretty nice. I enjoy taking 40 lines of nasty code and making it five lines of LINQ.
 
user1804599
7:39 PM
Enumerable.Zip(ParameterTypes, otherF.ParameterTypes, System.Tuple.Create) is more readable IMO.
 
...and then not passing code review because the reviewer isn't familiar with LINQ
 
Sounds like jabbascript
 
I dislike maple necks but
 
we use _.js, which somewhat approximates LINQ.
 
this is just buttiful
 
7:42 PM
@Nick I'd refuse code reviews from any C# dev who doesn't know LINQ.
 
@Elyse Since when (and why) do you write compilers in C#?
 
@Puppy you mean it approximates usual purely functional map-reduce paradigm
gargh
 
user1804599
Underscore.js breaks APIs in minor releases.
 
user1804599
I avoid it at all cost.
 
@Elyse why am I not surprised
 
user1804599
7:42 PM
@fredoverflow Recently. To try C#. Best compiler so-far.
 
@BartekBanachewicz Doesn't really matter.
 
no not at all
why am I here again
 
@nick Like you
Oh glorious full-heap developer.
 
@Puppy would if I could ;)
 
@BartekBanachewicz Because your love for us is stronger than our hate for Haskell ;)
 
user1804599
 
@BartekBanachewicz Bajtek Rosewood Banana
 
found Cat's favorite pastime
user image
4
 
public AnalysisException(string message) : base(message)
Oh, I didn't know C# had the "weird colon syntax" as well :)
 
@Elyse use jQuery instead amirite
 
@fredoverflow Only for initializing base classes.
 
user1804599
7:44 PM
@fredoverflow only for constructor delegation.
 
user1804599
@Puppy No, also for calling other constructors in the same class.
 
user1804599
> public Environment() : this(null, @unsafe: false, global: true, @namespace: ImmutableList<string>.Empty)
 
Is @ like backticks for escaping keywords?
 
user1804599
It's @. Yes.
 
I was confused for a second or two, because @ is used for annotations in Java.
 
user1804599
7:46 PM
C# uses [] for annotations. And they call it attributes.
 
user1804599
Almost like C++. :)
 
@Puppy you can do : this()
 
user1804599
I wanna refactor the analysis stuff though.
 
@Elyse C++ uses [[]] or something?
 
blech wikipedia fundraiser
 
user1804599
7:46 PM
For example, put unsafeness analysis in a separate pass.
 
user1804599
@fredoverflow Yes.
 
@Puppy Donate $100 and make it recurring :P
 
every time wikipedia does the fundraiser thing I remember about this pic iichan.hk/vg/arch/thumb/1387403444690s.jpg
wish I could find a higher res one
 
lol I just found this nugget in my code:
fun<T> ArrayList<T>.shrink(desiredSize: Int) {
    // Does ArrayList not have a resize method or at least a range-based remove method???
    while (size > desiredSize) {
        removeAt(lastIndex)
    }
}
> I don't always comment my code, but when I do, it's usually to complain about braindead APIs.
 
trunc might be a better name
 
user1804599
7:49 PM
Make that List<T>. :(
 
List<T> is read-only in Kotlin ;)
 
@fredoverflow I have a Clang experience just like that.
 
I'd call it take since you're taking desiredSize characters from it
 
I don't think I ever had the need to trunc a list like that
 
you pass it in a structure defining where you want it to search for headers, and then it totally ignores it and you have to extract the contents and call a function to actually make it look there itself.
 
7:51 PM
// A nice wrapper around Javas's absolutely awful Key Binding API
lol, another nugget
 
user1804599
WTF, static classes cannot inherit from other classes.
 
hmm, odd
I think I have a compiler bug with a member not being initialized correctly.
I mean, a G++ bug, not a Wide compiler bug
 
Can you reproduce the error with different compiler options or clang?
 
it's a pre-compiled package
I guess I could recompile LLVM 3.6.2 with another compiler and try that
but that won't be cheap.
 
@Puppy is this Wide compiler a thing you are making?
 
8:03 PM
yes
 
@fredoverflow what language does it compile?
 
Wide
 
What language does Wide compiler compile? hrmmmmm....
 
Puppy should name the compiler Oscar. Because Oscar Wide, get it?
 
C#
 
8:06 PM
@набиячлэвэлиь oh I forgot about the rule that the compiler must have the name of the language!
 
Rakudo compiles... Perl...
ok
 
112
A: Why can't I inherit static classes?

bojCitation from here: This is actually by design. There seems to be no good reason to inherit a static class. It has public static members that you can always access via the class name itself. The only reasons I have seen for inheriting static stuff have been bad ones, such as saving a couple o...

 
@bitcode Usually you don't need special names as long as there is only one compiler.
 
@fredoverflow well I was just pointing out that the name of the compiler doesn't need to be the name of the language. I mean, considering the info I had at the time, the Wide compiler could be a new C++ compiler...
 
@bitcode You're absolutely right.
 
user1804599
8:08 PM
@Nick Time for singletons!
 
@bitcode People don't typically refer to them as <X compiler>, though. They usually refer to them as just X. Like I was complaining about Clang, but that's not "The Clang compiler", it's just Clang.
 
@Elyse Turns out I need exactly one LinkedHashMap in my project. How do I hack LinkedHashMap.class so it turns into a Singleton? ;)
@Puppy "Clang" sounds like something is hitting metal.
 
yep
 
Was that done on purpose?
 
Clang puts the compilation speed pedal to the metal.
 
8:10 PM
Or does the name simply derive from "C lang(uages)"?
 
yes.
well.
the Wide tests are taking 99999 years to run which is how you know they're working
 
@Puppy Reminds me of how my AVX512 units tests under emulation took almost a month on my 8-core.
 
I have 47 tests. They take 100ms to run total.
 
yeah, but the Wide tests are pretty beefy.
I spin up a compiler instance for each one in it's own process, run the whole compilation pipeline to completion, JIT the resulting code, and then execute that.
 
user1804599
Removed lots of duplicate code. \o/
 
8:19 PM
How many SLOCs (LOCs not counting empty lines or lines only consisting of braces) are your compiler projects?
$ cat sloc
find . -name "*.kt" -exec grep -v "^[{ }]*$" {} + | wc -l
$ ./sloc
3767
 
considerably more than that
Wide is about 25k or so
 
How much of that is comments? :)
 
0 :P
 
any recommendation for IDE besides VS?
 
8:22 PM
CLion
 
@jaggedSpire my bowl!
@fredoverflow why pay for clion when VS community edition is free
 
@bitcode ideone ;)
 
@Borgleader :3
 
@Borgleader Because I blindly assume that CLion has better refactoring support than VS.
 
I'm a better Lion then CLion :)
 
8:24 PM
@fredoverflow CLion has a really cool look but its process uses so much memory =\
 
Tony The Loin
 
user1804599
 
user1804599
The kind of diffs I like: only red.
 
Xeo
@sbi Yes. 'twas awesome. Too bad we forgot Andy though. :/
 
I've tested Clion, VS, Code::Blocks, Codelite and now I'm testing NetBeans.
 
Xeo
8:25 PM
Btw, any meetingcpp goers got a spare XL shirt to give away? I lost my bag with the shirts inside of 'em.
 
@bitcode Who's your favourite so far and why?
 
@fredoverflow codelite. because it is minimalist (if you don't install the plugins) and it doesn't consume my RAM =D
 
@Xeo Does the tram company have a lost & found thing?
ynever know
@TonyTheLion story time
 
@AlexM. lol too fucking true
 
@Borgleader That actually made me think "Dinner time"
 
8:38 PM
I think sometimes people confuse "nonprofit" with "no money"
 
I read sth about IKEA being owned by a nonprofit
and as a result they don't pay taxes
or sth like that
 
@Borgleader :)
 
Xeo
@Borgleader ye is does, and I already called, but nothing yet. They said I should call again tomorrow after noon
 
Well, that escalated quickly.
 
Lounge, Lounge never changes. Not even in 2077.
 
8:44 PM
a HD or 3D remake of tropico 2 would be nice
 
According to the Vault-Tec computers, Sharon has since disappeared. And there are mentions to Davidson's temper.
 
@bitcode I was gonna download Codelite but then I saw screenshots
interface straight out of 2004
 
@nick when did you see the screenshots? they update very frequently
 
user1804599
@fredoverflow this class proved great in terms of boilerplate reduction: github.com/rightfold/sanity/blob/master/sanity/analysis/…
 
8:50 PM
@bitcode I'm looking at the ones on their website
 
@nick could you give me an example of nice interface?
 
D:
 
@nick :D
 
brackets, sublime, etc
 
let me check em
 
8:53 PM
@ElimGarak lol
 
I prefer interfaces where space is used in an efficient manner
 
user1804599
@ElimGarak lol
 
hmm
 
@nick but that is not an IDE though
 
could be an ABI mismatch I guess.
I should build a local copy of LLVM with symbols and see if the error stays.
 
8:54 PM
@bitcode depends
probably wouldn't use either for big C++ projects
but node.js? hell yeah
 
@nick can you attach a compiler to it?
 
you can install plugins yeah
 
@nick I may give brackets a try then. I'm looking for a full dark theme IDE
 
alright
I'm not a huge fan of brackets myself, as it's simply not as fast as sublime
what with it being a Chromium embedded app :P
 
@nick btw, in codelite you can change the interface to fit what you need where you need you know?
 
8:57 PM
yeah I'm sure
 
@nick in my humble opinion, the only thing that is mission from codelite is a full dark theme =\
missing*
 
yeah if you're going for a large set of features out of the box, an IDE like codelite would be better
 

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