« first day (845 days earlier)      last day (4102 days later) » 

2:00 PM
@CatPlusPlus ... or dependencies, apparently. ;)
 
@Zoidberg Why is the girl at the back smiling?
 
user142019
@tom_mai78101 what a bad question.
 
I make C++ project self-contained because tools are shit
 
1 message moved from bin
 
But seriously if I wanted to use ranges, I wouldn't think twice about depending on Boost.Range or whatever
 
2:01 PM
I think he lost the way
 
@Zoidberg I'm sorry. But if it's actual torture, there shouldn't be any smiling. Rather, they should be grieving that their friend is in danger.
 
@CatPlusPlus they are, and that certainly doesn't help, but which other language makes the problem disappear completely?
 
Python for one
 
user142019
 
@CatPlusPlus ...
What?
 
2:01 PM
Do you think the dependencies should be included the project repository? (Boost, Qt, etc..)
 
@tom_mai78101 Better question, why are her legs apparently near, while her head is distant?
 
Haskell to some extent, there's still some issues about nested dependencies but they're working on it(TM)
 
Even in Python, dependencies don't magically materialize out of thin air when you need them
 
user142019
Haskell. <3
 
@tom_mai78101 Executioners aren't friends
 
2:02 PM
@jalf Eh?
 
@sehe I see.
That's all I wanted to know.
 
@CatPlusPlus say I write a little python library, you write another python library which depends on mine. How does Python make my code magically materialize when users of your library need it?
 
I felt like I need someone to tell me the context in this room.
 
Basically any environment with centralised project library and standard dependency management tools will have little to no problem with managing dependencies
@jalf Because you do pip install thing and it installs both the thing and all its dependencies
 
user142019
C# standard y u no named and optional arguments.
 
2:04 PM
@CatPlusPlus sure, if you're willing to limit yourself to well-behaved and mature dependencies. :)
 
> "Boy, everyone is stupid except me" - The inverse of IoC is Control Øyvind Bakksjø
^ so much win in one line
 
@jalf Not really
 
maybe someone should write a C++ project dependency management system
 
pip allows you to depend on external repos as well
 
@TonyTheLion get going
 
2:04 PM
And it's transparent, you don't think about it
@TonyTheLion Ahahahaha
 
user142019
npm/cabal-dev for C++.
 
user142019
Would be nice.
 
@CatPlusPlus yes really. Suppose I just hack together a .py file which does what I need. That's my library. Even the most intelligent dependency management tool will not know about it or be able to do anything about your dependency on my .py file
 
Impossible to get everyone to use it
 
I have bad experiences with cabal. As in: it only broke for me
 
2:05 PM
@TonyTheLion I don't think so
 
user142019
I had troubles installing cabal-dev, which fixes most of the dependency hell.
 
cabal-dev is for creating virtualenvs
 
@Zoidberg The irony
 
user142019
I couldn't install cabal-dev because of dependency conflicts.
 
user142019
lol
 
2:05 PM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit oh good :)
 
@jalf Right, again, sorry for the common sense expectation here, I thought we were talking about actually published things
 
@TonyTheLion The configuration file should be something like: my project needs boost and shit
 
@CatPlusPlus That, then, appears it should have been the norm. It is to damn freaking hard to install anything on a distro that has Haskell packaged
 
I wonder how I'm going to know about your library that you didn't publish~
@sehe They're working on better dependency versioning
 
Then there's support. What do I do if I build a product based on your library, and my users encounter a bug in your library? Because it's a dependency, debugging, fixing and deploying it is much harder to do than if everything I needed was just in my code.
@CatPlusPlus Maybe I told you about it here. ;)
 
Xeo
2:06 PM
FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK
I'm such an idiot. Fuck.
6
 
But that was my point about well-behaved dependencies ;)
 
Yes that makes it so much easier to use it
 
Xeo
Fuckidy fuck.
 
@StackedCrooked no, how could it know what part of boost needs to be there? Some linux distros split boost in more than one package...
 
@jalf You suck.
 
user142019
2:07 PM
@Xeo Yup, you are.
 
user142019
Also what happen!!
 
Yes, dependency must actually exist
 
@rubenvb It should make educated guesses if not specified.
 
I guess if you want to use dependencies that don't exist then you'll have a problem
 
Xeo
I bought something on Amazon and used my old address... now it's being delivered to my old place in Berlin - where not even my parents are living anymore. :|
 
2:07 PM
My point is just that dependencies are always a trade-off. You save a lot of work by not having to implement and maintain the functionality yourself. But in return, you get the headache of interfacing with external code, keeping track of versioning of that external code, supporting it , distributing it and so on
 
@Xeo cancel the order?
 
@Xeo Call them maybe
 
Xeo
@TonyTheLion Too late, they already sent it out.
 
That might still be advantageous, and robust dependency management tools certainly help, but there is still a downside
 
@StackedCrooked and thus it needs knowledge of every written and not yet written library in the world and the future.
 
user142019
2:08 PM
@Xeo Well, call the guy that lives there and kindly ask him to send it to you.
 
user142019
Or woman.
 
Xeo
@CatPlusPlus Planned to do that.
 
@Xeo They've got cellphones~
 
user142019
Phonecells > cellphones.
 
user142019
</dunglish-mode>
 
2:09 PM
By the way, @sehe - to solve inflation rep - allow upvoting only if your current rep is 10x(score from relatively short time (1hr?)) /cc @Mysticial
 
@CatPlusPlus there's a Git library for Python, dulwich I think it's called. I tried getting that to work on Windows once, that was a utter pain in the ass. Some of your dependencies might only work on some of the platforms you need to support, or they might work differently, or have to be configured differently or built differently, or require another half-dozen dependencies in order to be built in the first place
 
If you're not familiar with a subject, you should learn the subject. StackOverflow isn't a tutorial site. You can come back after you've made an effort to learn the subject and hit a specific obstacle. — Kerrek SB 14 mins ago
When SO has comment templates, this should be one of them.
 
comment templates are so unpersonal
 
@jalf what about py-libgit2?
 
@BartekBanachewicz libgit2 is hopelessly incomplete
 
2:11 PM
@BartekBanachewicz I dunno, this was a while ago, and I haven't needed it since. It's not important anyway, it was an example of a dependency which caused difficulty on some platforms but not on others
 
@rubenvb it's also hopefully being developed, with help from Microsoft ATM
 
user142019
Dulwich is great.
 
@rubenvb libgit2 is the core of Visual Studio git support
 
@BartekBanachewicz its been that way for over two years now.
 
@BartekBanachewicz that's just rate limiting growth, righ? That formula is quite unclear
 
2:12 PM
oh wait
MS
 
@jalf ah, you were talking about dependencies. I am afraid cat is unrecoverable in that matter
 
@StackedCrooked SO isn't a dating service
 
wtf, the "add comment" button is black now.
 
also, "impersonal"!
 
@sehe Take the score from an hour ago. If it's 1/10 of your current rep, you can upvote.
 
user142019
2:14 PM
Hmm.
 
@DeadMG all GUI buttons turned black yesterday or the day before
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit I agree that SO doesn't work well for finding dates.
 
@StackedCrooked Oh I dunno.. 50% of MySQL/PHP/Javascript questions have dates in them somewhere
grr I hate when the toolbar tells me that there are 8 suggested edits for me to review.. and then it's not until I click on it in excitement that I'm told that no, actually, I can't review any more until tomorrow. fucking lying gui!
 
should I turn my boiler off completely while I'm not here for 3 days?
 
@TonyTheLion I don't care
can if you like
 
2:17 PM
@BartekBanachewicz ? I don't get it. I would never be able to vote. I'd have to gain >59k reputation within an hour to vote?
 
@TonyTheLion Nah, you don't wanna find there was a cold snap and your pipes freeze and burst.
 
Everything
 
ohai bin.
 
Don't use libc
 
@DeadMG right, good point
 
2:18 PM
<cstdio> ?
 
there's no point wasting heat if you're not there
but you do need some
 
We need a bin hotkey.
 
@BartekBanachewicz FYI "score" (what score) "your current rep" (whose rep?) "you can upvote" (who can?)
 
stick on a bit during the night
 
what's wrong with cstdio ?
 
user142019
2:18 PM
In Parsec I have a custom identifier parser but I want it to fail if the identifier is a keyword. I currently use unexpected but I find this ugly. Isn't there a better way to do this? gist.github.com/daknok/4731182
 
rofl - KKK?!?! wtf
 
@Zoidberg If you have a keyword parser then there should be a combinator to negate it
 
identifier vs keyword is something that should be resolved at the lexer, not parser.
 
Is stdint.h part of C++11?
 
@StackedCrooked <cstdint>, definitely
 
2:20 PM
Parsec doesn't have a separate lexing step
 
<cstdint> is.
 
When using cstdint am I required to use std::uint8_t instead of just uint8_t?
 
@sehe Zomg. We have an answer; It now has score X. An hour ago it had score Y. If right know, your current reputations is >= than Y, you can upvote.
 
yes
 
@BartekBanachewicz You are comparing answer scores to user rep?
 
2:21 PM
but your implementation may introduce those names into the global namespace too.
but I think they are required to provide <stdint.h> too.
 
I prefer to include stdint.h because then I don't need to bother using std::
 
@sehe exactly.
 
which guarantees global namespace placement.
 
> [C++11: D.5/3:] [ Example: The header <cstdlib> assuredly provides its declarations and definitions within the namespace std. It may also provide these names within the global namespace. The header <stdlib.h> assuredly provides the same declarations and definitions within the global namespace, much as in the C Standard. It may also provide these names within the namespace std. —end example ]
 
<stdint.h> -> global guaranteed, std optional, <cstdint> -> std guaranteed, global optional.
 
2:22 PM
Jesus christ guys, I've spotted the utopistic scripting language...
 
@BartekBanachewicz Innovative. Ah you meant 10*Y. Mmm. That could work. It's bassically a dynamic permission threshold, instead of a fixed one as it is now
@Jeffrey Lua?
 
@Jeffrey Standardese?
 
user142019
@CatPlusPlus so I have keyword :: Parser Keyword and then I use notFollowedBy keyword before parsing the identifier (i.e. before doing c <- satisfy isIdentifierStart)?
 
I didn't use much Parsec TBH
 
2:23 PM
@sehe yup. and yes, it was supposed to be 10*Y. It simply states "you cannot judge if the question should change from 400 to 401, if you have 1000 rep."
 
user142019
Oh. :P
 
@sehe, @DeadMG: Ruby (I know to disappoint you, just bear with it, ok?)
 
robot did
 
How is Ruby utopistic
 
@sehe I'd prefer 100*Y.
 
2:24 PM
The more you learn it and the more you ask yourself "Where the fuck did I live in the past 10 years?"
 
well, I had a number of addresses.
 
@DeadMG You'd prefer if all upvote request went through your person :)
 
heh
 
I had 4
 
deny that, I probably will not
 
2:25 PM
@CatPlusPlus, it has some features that are like "well, that was easy", such as retrieving a sub array with sub = array[2..5]
 
Lua is not utopistic, it's just awesome.
 
@Jeffrey Surely not. I learned it and decided to not waste 10 years on it
 
@Jeffrey WTF, seriously?
 
@Jeffrey It's really not that amazing
 
a tiny bit of syntactic sugar and you're falling all over it.
 
2:25 PM
Ruby is mostly Python mixed with bad ideas
 
Open type system. Lots of magic type hint characters. Meh
 
Magic variables, too
 
@DeadMG it can be 5, 10, 20, whatever. 10 seemed reasonable, as it is equal to number of upvotes on your question(s) required to get such priviledge. /cc @sehe
 
(I include Perl in "bad ideas")
 
And frameworks that float on "convention over configuration". IOW: YMMV and hope it works for you
@DeadMG :) j/k
 
2:27 PM
^^
all I'm saying is that 10*Y would only stop a very few users, even for the most extreme posts.
 
Ok guys, I know that you are all experienced guys, with tons of years in programming and stuff, but from a guy who began with PHP and ended with C++ all this is like "Why did I even started PHP or C++?"; then obviously I answer myself "Well, C++ is a compiled language so it might be useful for programs that needs performance", but still...
@CatPlusPlus, what are those bad ideas?
 
@Jeffrey No.
C++ > Ruby.
 
2 mins ago, by sehe
Open type system. Lots of magic type hint characters. Meh
 
but also, I admit that starting PHP, is very "Why would anyone want to do that?"
 
 
2:29 PM
@DeadMG, yeah obviously. I would never use Ruby other than for simple things like web development...
 
^ I'm so relieved that The Rapist is not on the 'more psychopath' side of the list
 
Xeo
Yay, Amazon just called DHL to get the package sent back to them without trying to deliver it.
Then I can just buy the stuff again.
 
@DeadMG, at that time I had the idea for making a good website, and PHP was the easiest piece of crap to learn to get things done (the bad way).
 
ARGH
fuck you, Chrome.
 
@Xeo Yay?
 
2:30 PM
when I type "sta", that is not supposed to mean "stacked-crooked.com".
 
@DeadMG Yeah. But you did it yourself: (a) by using chrome (b) by typing stacked-crooked.com into the address bar manually
 
Xeo
@sehe Definitly yay. Otherwise, it'd end up in Berlin. :|
 
@Xeo Like that. Too many things end up in Berlin, anyways
 
user142019
@CatPlusPlus thanks man it works! gist.github.com/daknok/4731253
 
@DeadMG my nickname is older than stackoverflow.com so they should change their name, not me
 
2:31 PM
@CatPlusPlus, open type system? doesn't python has that too?
 
Xeo
@sehe lol
 
Do you use the Chrome custom search engines? They are wonderful.
 
Xeo
Damn habit of hitting ctrl-s after typing any amount of code. It's really annoying with online editors. :|
 
@Jeffrey No
 
user142019
2:33 PM
Hmm keyword also needs to do notFollowedBy isIdentifierPart, of course.
 
You can hack around and monkey patch types if you reaaaaaaally want to, but that's not idiomatic
 
@CatPlusPlus, wait, is open type opposed to strictly typed?
 
@Jeffrey go to javascript, it will suit your needs
 
@DeadMG "stacko" is the minimum disambiguator
 
@Xeo Pretty sure.
 
2:33 PM
@Jeffrey What
 
@StackedCrooked no shit
 
@CatPlusPlus isn't the type system about what is possible though, rather than what is idiomatic?
 
@sehe I worked it out myself.
 
@sehe, that's offensive.
 
Xeo
@sehe I saw that, heh.
 
2:34 PM
@Jeffrey what is, exactly?
 
1
Q: Why is `ls -al & ; ls -al` invalid?

Lightness Races in OrbitI ran this on my Centos5 box: ls -al & ; ls -al I was expecting it to run ls -al in the background, and concurrently run ls -al in the foreground, and demonstrate how the output to terminal gets all mangled by doing so. However, I get: -bash: syntax error near unexpected token `;' H...

 
@DeadMG no. Very few users has over 2k rep. Which is 200 score. Which is broken way to much
 
@jalf Ruby encourages open classes to the point where everyone does it
 
@sehe, "go to javascript, it will suit your needs"
 
And you get things like nil having 300 methods in Rails
It's nigh unmaintainable
 
2:34 PM
And my next site will be stacko-crooked.com.
 
@BartekBanachewicz Not at all. Answers which are over 50-100 score should definitely be locked to the majority of users.
2
 
@CatPlusPlus yep, but surely having an open type system is about whether it is possible to do this, and not whether it is idiomatic/encouraged?
@StackedCrooked stackoverflocked.com
 
It's only possible with some types in Python
 
Anyway do you (@sehe, @DeadMG) think that the 10*Y idea is worth putting on Meta?
 
2:35 PM
@jalf Or just stackoverflo.com
 
Xeo
@jalf stackoverclocked? I like the sound of that.
 
@BartekBanachewicz Yeah, perhaps. I'm not into politics though. You might get more encouragement from @Mysticial
 
stackoverheap.com
 
Xeo
lawl
 
headoverheels.com
 
Xeo
2:36 PM
@StackedCrooked Sounds like a site advocating not to use new all the time.
 
@DeadMG It could be non-linear, too. Also, majority is under 500 rep
 
rep whooooring all day long
 
I could release you all from suffering by purchasing coliru.com or something.
 
Xeo
lol
 
@Xeo lol, joke explainer
 
2:37 PM
Also Ruby modules suck
 
import __hello__, lol you cheating bastard...
 
VMs suck too
 
@CatPlusPlus, why is that?
 
@BartekBanachewicz Well, IYAM, if you have an answer which is higher than Y% of other answers, then only the top Y% of users should be eligible to move it higher.
 
Xeo
@jalf Whaaaaat.
 
2:38 PM
They're too manual
 
heapoverflow.com
 
Also AFAIR not first-class
 
@Xeo waiting for vmware to stop wrecking my computer and boot the VM I asked it to
 
> HeapOverflow Computer Security Community & Forums
 
Ruby does PHP's file-based require
 
Xeo
2:38 PM
@jalf Got no problem with that. :)
 
@Xeo it only happens occasionally. I think it's when you close one VM, and open the next while the first is still in the process of closing
oh ffs
 
@DeadMG That's connecting percentage of question score with percentage of user rep. And it's even deeper connection which should be examined thoroughly. It also loses the advantage of being easily noticeable by user. Instead, they would either be alowed to vote or not. Also you are comparing user answer score. Why not question score instead?
 
fire alarm just went off...
 
Xeo
Hmm... I just realized, with just TR1, you can't alias placeholders :(
 
@CatPlusPlus, what did you mean with "open type system", I'm probably misunderstanding it...
 
2:40 PM
Don't use Ruby use Python~
 
@BartekBanachewicz Well, I'd say that it should be separate for both- i.e., questions should be question score, answers should be answer score.
 
GIMME MORE REPPSSS
 
@CatPlusPlus, I don't feel the love...
 
@DeadMG okay, now you are blocking users with 0 questions from upvoting questions totally.
 
which is fine by me.
 
2:42 PM
Well, it encourages asking questions, certainly
 
or you could just make an exception for questions/answers below, say, 5-10 score.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit How come you suddenly care about REPSSS again? Lost your job?
 
@DeadMG I still think user rep is a better idea. It's the measure of how we can trust the judgement of this person; if he has more, let him vote higher.
 
eh
then make it user rep.
 
@sehe I'm on sabbatical
 
2:43 PM
Actually, make it anything
 
@sehe though I never lost my caring for REPS
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Oh great. I like that
 
Because shitload of a = b == c; is getting on everyone's nerves
 
@sehe so do I!
 
agree
 
2:44 PM
what's going on over there?
 
I still want to consult @Mysticial first, and then it can be posted on Meta
 
@BartekBanachewicz So, patience mode
 
I say we make it simpler. Anybody can vote on anything. But if you have less than 100K of rep, all your votes are completely ignored (unless you're upvoting somebody who already has at least 100K rep, in which case it counts double).
2
 
lol
 
@JerryCoffin ;)
 
2:47 PM
@JerryCoffin ha ha ha
 
@BartekBanachewicz not it's not, rep is a sign of how good the user is it at getting rep
2
 
yeah
I mean, look at Jerry Coffin - the guy has 165k rep.
 
That's totally different problem
Right now, I am basing on the official meaning of reputation
 
Wut
 
well, that was fun
 
2:54 PM
@DeadMG more if you count all his other socks
 

« first day (845 days earlier)      last day (4102 days later) »