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Ell
11:00 PM
I just think of it in terms of unit vectors :3
 
user1804599
What is the matrix called?
 
@ScottW You wouldn't be able to do anything with only one dimension of it.
 
user1804599
Is it a projection?
 
@rightfold you need n-dim for scaling and rotations and n+1 for translations
 
@Ell No, it just doesn't make sense.
 
11:00 PM
@Ell um no
 
A 1D projection matrix
 
@BartekBanachewicz Thought it was rotations that needed the extra dimension and translation was fine with just N-dim.
 
Ell
Hokay
 
@DeadMG well, you thought wrong.
 
11:01 PM
eh
I totally ignored all that pointless shit anyway
3D games need 4x4 matrix -> the important part is learned, time to move on.
 
user3010322
@rightfold "Object" or "World" matrix is for the individual sprites and objects. Then there's the Projection matrix, whose job it is to take coordinates from your math and then give them the look and perspective of an actual viewer. The View matrix is the actual viewing position, e.g. whether you're looking from the left, the right, or 45 degrees below.
 
IRTA "I didn't understand so I gave up"
 
Ell
@bartek for translations?
You only need n
 
user3010322
Translations need n + 1
 
Ell
Just add it component wise
 
11:01 PM
I didn't need to understand so why bother trying?
 
user3010322
Homogenous coordinate
 
Ell
Why does it work in graphs then? >.<
 
user3010322
Graphs are 2D?
 
@DeadMG yeah famous puppy "why bother learning" attitude. Not surprising.
@Ell in what
 
Ell
11:02 PM
Ohwait I'm misunderstanding
 
user1804599
Are location, scale and rotation all stored in a single matrix?
 
@BartekBanachewicz What, it's not surprising that I spent my time on things that actually mattered?
 
@rightfold step back a bit.
 
Ell
I thought adding the matrices together was allowed :P
 
11:03 PM
@rightfold a matrix is can be used as a way to transform things
 
user1804599
When do you use the matrix?
 
@Ell That does not make any mathematical sense in this context.
 
@DeadMG it's not surprising that you discarded knowledge.
 
@rightfold whenever you see a glitch
 
user1804599
Do you use it to store data in an object or do you only use it during calculations?
 
Ell
11:03 PM
@rightfold they don't have to be, you can multiply them together to put them into one
 
@BartekBanachewicz I only have finite time, so I need to expend it on gaining the knowledge I actually need.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Don't need to remind me that gaming journalism is the worst kind of journalism there is.
 
instead of random knowledge I don't need.
 
@Rapptz Cry me a river.
 
@DeadMG except your view of what you need is heavily biased and often incorrect.
 
11:04 PM
I could spend the rest of my life doing nothing but learning things I don't need.
 
@rightfold not really 'location'. A matrix is not about the current state of a point, but how to manipulate a point.
 
@EtiennedeMartel I don't cry.
 
let say you have transformation = rotation * translation * scale
You can then do: gl_Position = projection * transformation * position
 
@BartekBanachewicz wokay Bartek. You're getting a bit caricaturesque right now. Keep it with the "this is amazing" style of ranting then. That's more amusing
 
@sehe no, that's when you wake up.
 
11:04 PM
@DeadMG cough SHA-2 cough
 
@rightfold matrix can be computed once to apply transformations to multiple objects once so you don't have to translate/rotate multiple times
 
@BartekBanachewicz My program works without it? Didn't need it.
 
@rightfold those are operations. You can store them in a single matrix, or in separate ones. It most often makes sense to separate them logically, not "scalings here, translations here"
@DeadMG that's what I said.
 
@sehe I needed a break :P
 
@BartekBanachewicz lol the implication
@DeadMG lol
 
11:05 PM
besides
 
no besides.
 
I calculated the RAM needs of the next iteration of that project at 8GB and I have only 6GB.
 
I've heard everything I needed to hear.
 
stop it
 
Xeo
@sehe s/implication/irony/
 
11:05 PM
and sehe is right
 
so I can't be continuing that line of work with my current hardware.
 
not starring that.
ugly capitalization
 
> Here is an example implementation of De Casteljau's algorithm in Haskell:
Good thing I started learning Haskell >.>
 
user1804599
 
@Borgleader hm? also cool learn it!
use that ^
 
11:07 PM
> It brings next-gen goat simulation to YOU.
 
user1804599
That is about vertices.
 
user1804599
Not about matrices.
 
@rightfold it is about everything. Use it.
 
user1804599
I will read this first and then I will read that.
 
@rightfold You can transform vertices with matrices.
 
11:08 PM
Use grid-based 2D, never rotate anything, never need any matrices
:getin:
 
@CatPlusPlus or grid-based 3D!
 
Or 4D
 
And even then, a vector is a matrix, when you think about it.
 
Hypercubes 4 lyfe
 
11:08 PM
Use terminal. Let the window manager's compositor do the rotations!
 
@EtiennedeMartel Amazing.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Everything is the matrix
 
@EtiennedeMartel wooah dude
 
user1804599
@CatPlusPlus I was always thinking that way. vOv
 
@CatPlusPlus I know.
 
user1804599
11:10 PM
@BartekBanachewicz are you referring to that page or to the entire book?
 
user1804599
Because I am not interested in OpenGL, only in matrices and this particular use of them.
 
I mean, you need to be really dumb to not understand how important matrices are.
WINK WINK
 
matrices are shit
 
@rightfold don't think about it in matrices. That's not a good way to think about it at all.
 
Xeo
nom nom, delicious tiramisu
 
11:11 PM
Matrices are just a tool to express something - that something is a linear transform.
 
@Xeo Did you choke on the cocoa?
 
Ell
Yeah bro quaternions are the cool thing for 2014
 
Xeo
@EtiennedeMartel wut?
 
room topic changed to Lounge<C++>: French fries, now with more C++ than ever. [java] [no-thing] [teen-math-drama]
 
Let's bump up the math level and discuss numerical analysis.
 
11:23 PM
@rightfold nah you won't. Because it really is dead easy. And much cleaner :)
@Rapptz Oooh. Yeah. What's the limit of that. I don't think it'll converge
 
user1804599
@sehe I will write abstractions that anyone else can only dream of.
 
Also, it composes, you can compose linear transforms into a matrix that is the composition of the transforms. This is called a linear transform.
@R.MartinhoFernandes naa, he's going to sleep anyway.
 
user3010322
@R.MartinhoFernandes You're so mean. :c
 
(Apologies to everyone that took collateral damage)
 
11:24 PM
Woah... the page doesn't repopulate after moving all the messages away.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum "Naa" - EINVALIDSTATE
 
*as in it doesn't scroll up.
 
Ell
Lets Talk about electronics!
 
user3010322
@R.MartinhoFernandes You know now we don't have transcript on record of us being helpful.
 
Let's discuss the important issues.
 
Ell
11:25 PM
Or chemistry
 
user3010322
Now we're just a bunch of slackers again.
 
How could we trust @BenjaminGruenbaum to be a good teacher if he can't even draw a circle properly?
 
o_0 who threw the bath water out with the baby?
 
mmm
 
Ell
chromium chemistry is difficult to remember
 
user3010322
11:25 PM
@Rapptz People who draw freehand, perfect circles are considered insane.
 
Did something explode
 
Your gonads.
 
@Rapptz I actually teach this pretty well in person. I used to teach high school grade Math/Physics Mechina for a few years (people repeating high school)
 
@ThePhD Everyone loves freehand circles!
 
user3010322
@CatPlusPlus My heart, when you spoke to me baby ♡~
 
11:26 PM
@EtiennedeMartel Oh, so that's the smell
 
checks pants
pants not found
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes ir was you ¬_¬ what happened?
 
I used to tutor in mathematics.
 
user3010322
@Rapptz It's the perfect ones you have to watch out for.
 
@thecoshman Yeah, what a waste of perfectly good water
 
Ell
11:27 PM
I wonder if people pay for programming tutors
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Is that your way of saying you're going commando?
 
@thecoshman I created a room for Ben to teach rightfold about linear transformations one-on-one.
 
@Ell They do.
 
@Ell yes, a lot do.
 
@CatPlusPlus well I'm glad my mildly humorous twist on the classic phrase did not get completely ignored by you heathens
 
user3010322
11:27 PM
I want to get paid for programming tutoring.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes oooooh; so you waster your time. :P
 
Ell
I wonder if I could get away with tutoring someone programming
 
user3010322
A new legion of Cowboy Casters will arise from the dirt.
 
@ThePhD no
 
Ell
For money
 
11:29 PM
@Ell Doesn't your school have a tutoring/studying room?
 
Goddamn... So I thought we had a fire alarm in the office building. Turns out that it was everyone with an iPhone ringing for the Amber alert.
 
how do you fall for that?
isn't that going to be out of sync?
 
user3010322
Same cell tower, great reception.
 
@Rapptz Nope. It was everyone at one. At the same time.
 
user3010322
11:30 PM
Shit will happen nearly immediately for a group of people.
 
Within like 1 second of each other.
 
Ell
@rapptz my School has nothing to do with programming :/
I'm not at uni yet
 
1 second is less than it takes to echo across the building.
 
user3010322
@rightfold Kinky. You'll get very tired of doing that soon. :3c
 
user1804599
11:31 PM
7 mins ago, by rightfold
@sehe I will write abstractions that anyone else can only dream of.
 
@Mysticial 'the amber alert'?
 
@rightfold wrong choice
 
Ell
Night folks
 
@thecoshman Search for it.
 
tl;dr
going to bed
 
11:32 PM
Though I'm not sure you'll be able to find the one that hit us unless you're in California.
 
it's been a stupidly long day of traveling to get home :'(
 
user3010322
I find out if I get my glorified IT job on Thursday.
 
user3010322
Still waiting for Ludia to get back to me.
 
@Mysticial your building has serious moisture issues
 
@ThePhD hint: if it's been more than a week, take it as a no.
 
11:33 PM
@sehe why?
 
night all
 
user1804599
@sehe nee.
 
:) just random jokeyness
 
user3010322
@thecoshman :c They said they wanted meee. ;~;
 
@rightfold not if you do PHP shopping carts, no
 
11:33 PM
@rightfold what's that
 
user1804599
I know exactly how to abstract it.
 
@rightfold I meant the first part. It's a good introduction to the maths
 
@ThePhD definite rejection bud
 
user1804599
@BartekBanachewicz a hypothetical C program that renders a spaceship.
 
@ThePhD If they said yes and it's been more than a week take it as a fuck you! :P
 
user3010322
11:34 PM
@Rapptz Hold on, they already said yes! I'm... I'm sure they're just working out details!
 
@rightfold are you doing that to prove that you don't need matrices?
 
user3010322
Just some logistics! These things take time...
 
user1804599
No.
 
user1804599
I am doing it to show how I would do it.
 
I know how this works.
 
11:35 PM
@ThePhD They forgot about you. They're going to say that due to them missing paperwork, they're going to have to let you go.
 
welp, if you get on mumble I can explain it better
 
Is it bad that I know how to unabstract it, I know how to do the actual code from your SOA business logic, message bus Enterprise layer hardware?
 
user1804599
If I find that I do - viewport.x on at least two places, I see that as duplicate code and I write an abstraction for it.
 
@BartekBanachewicz hint: you're wrong
 
@sehe about what?
 
user1804599
11:36 PM
Because duplicate code is extremely terrible.
 
@BartekBanachewicz Life. :P
 
You won't be able to explain it better
 
user1804599
It’s my worst enemy after my arch enemy.
 
@sehe you're encouraged to get there too and correct me if I am wrong
@R.MartinhoFernandes eh that part I know, huh.
 
It's not the "can". It's the "do".
It's not the "know". It's the "how".
 
user3010322
11:37 PM
@Rapptz It's not true. ;~;
 
I will explain it better if you get on mumble.
 
Another threat
 
user1804599
I don’t see what the difference would be if I have one and only one place where I multiply matrices or one and only one place where I subtract coordinates and add rotations.
 
user1804599
It is an implementation detail in a single function.
 
@rightfold so, will you give me a chance on that or not?
 
user1804599
11:37 PM
Not now.
 
user1804599
Maybe in the future.
 
@BartekBanachewicz And now Steam Dev Days videos twitter just keeps on giving today :3
 
I'm always eager.
A person that's me and is not eager is not me.
 
user1804599
I do not want to be you, bear.
 
@Borgleader woo
@rightfold that was a response to the bear
 
11:38 PM
"Amber alert" So a country of 300 million people has a national federal broadcast system for a missing child. I find that resource consuming, to be kind with the assessment.
 
user1804599
@BartekBanachewicz indeed.
 
@CaptainGiraffe Who said the whole country received it?
 
@rightfold ok.
 
Blacks don't.
 
user3010322
> Stop treating OpenGL as that other 3D graphics API that you use on non-Windows platforms. Just move to OpenGL across the board!
 
user3010322
11:39 PM
Welp, time to move to OpenGL. ;~;
 
(Gosh, that was horrible)
 
@BartekBanachewicz Also, I'm looking at the source code for nanovg, I'm not sure how they pulled off the bezier curve o.o
 
@Borgleader haha
 
@rightfold Mmm? Curious. But - that's okay, in case it wasn't obvious
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes there's your conscience again
 
11:40 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes it was
 
@sehe I don't think I did?
 
@BartekBanachewicz T_T
 
@CaptainGiraffe I didn't say. I asked
 
@Borgleader I can't get GL 4.4 to work
now that's a problem
 
To DirectX :)
 
11:40 PM
Your "OpenGL guy" license has been revoked.
 
I stick to 4.3 I'm 99% sure my video cards can't do 4.4
 
mine can
 
user3010322
4.4 is for losers anyways.
 
user3010322
3.2 is where the magic happens.
 
11:41 PM
@sehe I just read the first google links on the amber alert system. It seems extremely ambitious.
 
> Use macros for HLSL/GLSL differences
woop woop
 
worms
 
@melak47 meh. Just write GLSL
 
user3010322
@melak47 Worst. Idea. ever. :c
 
gaaaah
what the fuck is going on here today
 
11:42 PM
@BartekBanachewicz GLSL is ugly <3
 
user3010322
GLSL is mega ugly, agreed.
 
why do I have to resist the urge to say "you're a total fucktard" mixed with explaining matrices
 
@CaptainGiraffe To me it sounds /unambitious/ then. Like: "hell, this is 10x a year, we don't need to optimize this. Just broadcast it"
 
@ThePhD No. "Use macros for HLSL/GLSL differences while dangling fresh gnu meat from your dick over a lake full of crocodiles" is a much worse idea.
 
@BartekBanachewicz Are you sure it's not the other way around?
 
11:43 PM
@sehe I'm not calling everyone around a fucktard openly (... yet).
 
@melak47 At work, we have a full pipeline of fun stuff that generates GLSL and AGAL shaders from HLSL shaders.
 
gah I'm a terrible person.
 
@sehe Sorry, not ambitious as lets give this the proper resources, but rather lets make this another "war", crime drugs terror, kids, teens what have you.
 
user3010322
@EtiennedeMartel AGAL?
 
user3010322
The fuck platform does that go on? o.0
 
user3010322
11:43 PM
Adobe's shit?
 
@ThePhD Flash.
 
user3010322
Oh
 
user3010322
Pixel Bender and shit?
 
@CaptainGiraffe ah. "power trip" ambitious
 
@ThePhD Our engine targets Flash, remember.
 
11:45 PM
@sehe Yes, my "ambitious" did in no way imply effective nor goalpost-close.
 
ITTF ThePhD bitching about AS3.
 
currentProgram :: StateVar (Maybe Program)
 
(F for future)
 
ugh why the fuck is it called "currentProgram"
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes The AS400 is way worse
 
11:46 PM
@BartekBanachewicz Because you use it to bind the current program. It's a very thin layer.
 
"let's change names of functions randomly for the fun of it"
 
It's not a function.
 
that's not random then
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes it's called useProgram in the spec dammit
 
It's exposed as a state variable.
 
11:47 PM
 
(Hence StateVar)
 
Here's something not retarded. @EtiennedeMartel @ThePhD @Borgleader
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes yeah well I get that. But I had to look it up :/ How many more of these am I going to find?
 
@Rapptz Is that from the page I linked earlier?
 
user3010322
@R.MartinhoFernandes Not if your dick has the power to slay many an evil villian.
 
11:48 PM
@Borgleader I don't know, didn't click it
 
@BartekBanachewicz Most of the API is exposed in this manner.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes wait. How do you know that?
 
useProgram = (currentProgram $=)
 
user3010322
@R.MartinhoFernandes ? I like AS3, except for the part where the Point class ravages my runtime.
 
@BartekBanachewicz I know everything.
 
11:49 PM
@BartekBanachewicz also, lol. "Move to OpenGL! Use our stuff here to make it easier :D but uh yeah no windows version yet"
 
I wrote OpenGL programs in Haskell in university.
 
if (level > 10) return; Well... that's nice. How about throw LevelIsTooDamnHighException; oh wait this is fucking C
 
@Borgleader Who sentenced you to hard labour?
 
Now pardon my ignorance; you gentlemen are discussing Action Script 3. Aren't you sirs forgetting about its heritage and its paradigms?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I don't even.
 
11:50 PM
@Borgleader Should be return flavrofwkrerrcodmaybneg1mayb0mayb2;
 
@MartinJames I'm trying to understand this
 
@BartekBanachewicz What?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes How. I want to know everything too.
@R.MartinhoFernandes my uni :(
@melak47 will appear sooner or later. MSVS has no C++ yet and people use it anyway
 
@Borgleader It should be perfectly clear from the extensive commenting.. oh.. hang on..
 
Fuck... bezier tessellation is recursive... I can't do it in a shader :(
 
11:52 PM
@BartekBanachewicz yet the nmake and their compiler still builds c++.
 
@Borgleader rewrite to non-recursive
@CaptainGiraffe it's not C++11, hence not C++
 
@MartinJames float x12,y12,x23,y23,x34,y34,x123,y123,x234,y234,x1234,y1234; Do you love this code yet?
 
@Borgleader aw
well nano vg
the code is minified :D
 
@BartekBanachewicz It is 2014 February the 12:th
 
@CaptainGiraffe and?
 
11:54 PM
@BartekBanachewicz I never made a secret of the fact that my university experience was overall quite good.
 
@BartekBanachewicz C++14 perchance?
 
@Borgleader I don't think that 'love' is exactly the right word, though four characters is about right.
 
@CaptainGiraffe not out yet
 
I got screwed over by bureaucracy and politics but still.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Did I make a secret from the fact that I wanted a nice experience from my uni?
 
11:55 PM
@MartinJames This is what prompted me to make a C++ equivalent... that doesn't suck. (Which is a tall order considering... me)
 
user3010322
@R.MartinhoFernandes Same here!
 
@Borgleader uh. NanoVG doesn't suck
 
@BartekBanachewicz Some of the code is ... terrible (see above)
 
@BartekBanachewicz When did the spec release date make a compiler? I'm thinking turbo Pascal. -'wink Anders
 
user3010322
Thankfully I'm at a Uni that somewhat kind of loves me, but it's hard to love the Professors who like me when the University as a whole is trying to crush me.
 
11:56 PM
@Borgleader Couldn't be much worse.
 
@CaptainGiraffe g++ has a lot of features from C++14 drafts implemented already. They can practically be ready for the day 0.
 
user3010322
Nobody likes bureaucracy, not even the Professors. Yet here we are. :c
 
@ThePhD I wasn't screwed over on purpose though.
 
user3010322
@R.MartinhoFernandes Oh!
 
user3010322
Well then, that changes everything. :v
 
11:57 PM
oh my god
 
@BartekBanachewicz Sure, so does most other compiler vendors.
 
it works
IT WORKS
@CaptainGiraffe except microsoft.
 
@BartekBanachewicz They too. They have a huge toolchain to consider.
 
@CaptainGiraffe except they don't
this is my tryumph
 
I think I'd rather be screwed over on purpose. At least you get someone to blame, and it makes planning revenge easier.
 
11:58 PM
Worst things that happened to me were: having a bunch of credits gone to waste because there was no equivalence for some subjects I had passed when the curriculum changed completely while I was halfway through; and having a pair of last-chance exams scheduled for the same god-fucking-dammit time slot.
I am quite sure I was just collateral damage in both.
 
user3010322
Yeah, that doesn't sound deliberate at all.
 
@CaptainGiraffe fuck if I care. C++11 support will appear no less than a few years from now
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Oh - a new category - screwed over by incompetence.
 
user3010322
Glad it was just an accident, no matter how ultra crapzors.
 
user3010322
Still, they should plan for shit like that.
 
11:59 PM
@MartinJames oh fuck would I like to kill the dumbfuck I failed the subject of
 

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