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Ell
10:00 PM
awww my ascii art machine won't export properly >.<
I'll call it a night
 
That's a strange name for a broken ascii art export machine
 
@DeadMG Well sort of yes, I didn't think I needed one but it wouldn't compile otherwise. Hence my question "is it VS" (or am i wrong)
 
as I said, it depends on the version.
 
Xeo
well, you can easily crosscheck with gcc and clang, before starting with a loaded question
 
user1804599
Xeo
 
10:04 PM
rightfold
 
user1804599
On a scale from no to yes, are you good at Haskell?
 
3.14
 
user1804599
@sehe ik bos jou wollah
 
?
 
@Xeo Even if Clang and GCC disagree that still wouldn't make VS wrong.
 
10:04 PM
I don't speak that language
 
heh I've started creating my own GL thing
 
@rightfold I think you triggered lazy evaluation of that answer. This may take a while /cc @Xeo
 
then opened "modern opengl in haskell" and data looked exactly the same
 
user1804599
seq Xeo -- forces @Xeo to answer
 
user1804599
10:06 PM
A heavy calculation, I think.
 
user1804599
I am going to take a shower in the meantime.
 
just very very lazy
 
user1804599
That’s what she complained about.
 
you're not dirty anymore, soon
 
oh @Xeo apparently someone from Berlin Games Academy is coming to my GFs art school to give a lecture
 
user3010322
10:08 PM
@sehe Have you ever heaard of Pure Data?
 
erm. context?
 
Ell
Well so far my thing can place characters on an infinite map which you can pan around. It will attempt to export it but wont go very well
 
sounds like those Unlimited Detail guys.
 
Ell
Still. I think it's progress for a few hours work. Although the code is very messy!
 
user3010322
@sehe eYeah that.
 
user3010322
10:10 PM
Sorry, I should have linked. I'm new to it too.
 
user3010322
Basically, someone's trying to convince me to make the DSP I am working on out of PureData.
 
user3010322
... By porting it to Raspberry Pi. u.u
 
!@#$%^
 
user3010322
And then using PureData. u__u;
 
Sounds exceptionally unuseful
 
user3010322
10:11 PM
I'm not sure why people want a visual programming language... on Raspberry Pi.
 
user3010322
Like.... what. Why? :c
 
hehe apparently Haskell has its own GLDR
it's called GLUtil
 
@ThePhD Yeah. IIRC we used it with UDK for procedural music
 
@ThePhD It's probably more worthwhile to extend your RFID door unlocker thingie with a semtex component for proper trespassing control
 
user3010322
@Borgleader How did that work out?
 
10:12 PM
Complicated as fuck but the result was nice
 
> "music"
 
user3010322
@Borgleader How complicated?
 
@Ell language?
 
How music?
 
@ThePhD I wasn't the one who worked most on that part, I mostly sent the parameters, but IIRC we had a dll which communicated with PD through some protocol and that dll was loaded by UDK and we varied the music's paramters with it.
The first thing we wanted to use was: audiokinetic.com/products/208-wwise
but you need a UE3 license for that, it wont work with UDK
 
10:15 PM
So, PureData was the last thing you wanted to use :)
 
Doesn't make it bad ;P
 
:D
 
Ell
@bartek your worst nightmare ;)
 
I somewhat reluctantly heard about Pure Data the first time just yesterday, PD was described as the best Data Driven GUI there ever was.
I feel a little bit violated that PD is even discussed in here. I think we should get back to simulink, smalltalk or Visual Basic.
 
@JerryCoffin technically possible to access them both, but common editors that access files by name will open only one of them.. so have fun when git knows they are the same file... it's trying to merge them but endup conflicting... and you can't really delete one of the file as windows see 1 but git sees 2 files. I ended up delete both files and did a completely manually merge
 
user3010322
10:18 PM
Well, to be perfectly honest, I was going to originally implement my DSP in C++ with a Raspberry Pi.
 
@ThePhD The arrow has barbs. That application was also with a PI.
 
@EtiennedeMartel She's still going huh? o.o I hadn't heard of her since a while
 
Also the worse part is when your colleague are adding back the file with the wrong case inside git...that and that they renamed the file.
 
> you're colleagues
 
10:20 PM
@Borgleader That is the correct form if you are very quick 'bout it.
 
@CaptainGiraffe taken out of context, it's quite valid
 
Someone should do a series on reactionary neckbeard agressiveness.
 
@LoïcFaure-Lacroix Indeed; dear chap.
 
user3010322
@EtiennedeMartel Is that when somene's neckbeard consumes the offender's face when someone tries to kiss it?
 
Still amazing that a picture of Canada having intercourse with USA's ass raised 8 stars and still visible on the right of the chat... but calling Lounge<Banana> is so wrong
 
10:25 PM
@LoïcFaure-Lacroix Thanks for pointing it out to me. I would have missed that otherwise.
 
Ell
(That's ruby BTW)
 
^^ lol
Check the comments.
 
who would set a firewall rule on UNION ALL ?
 
@Mysticial Hmm, the new April fools theme is becoming apparent.
@LoïcFaure-Lacroix A capitalist paranoid government? =)
 
@CaptainGiraffe they're already recording everything... no need to block them.
 
10:30 PM
@Ell :P
createPipeline :: FilePath -> FilePath -> IO Pipeline
createPipeline vertShaderPath fragShaderPath = do
    vs <- loadShader VertexShader vertShaderPath
    fs <- loadShader FragmentShader fragShaderPath
    prog <- linkShaderProgram [vs, fs]
    return $ Pipeline vs fs prog
@Borgleader much GL. So wow.
 
sounds good
But I see a problem here
You don't really want to recompile the same shader multiple time do you? unless you loadShader memoize shaders and only return the same compiled shader for the same path
 
It doesn't really matter
 
It doesn't? only the linked program matters?
 
How many shaders do you think you'll have?
 
Well I have only 1 shader at the moment but I could expect more... but I see your point if you mean I'll never have more than 20 of them
 
10:36 PM
Call me when you hit a second of total time spent in shader compilation :v
(So not gonna happen)
 
I'd be more worried about memory usage than speed
but I guess it shouldn't be a problem unless its a mobile phone
 
Dunno how GPUs do stuff, really, but compared to any single texture you're going to upload, shaders are nothing
 
can't argue about that
 
It's hard to get a really large executable just with your own code, and shaders are significantly less complex than PC programs
 
btw, any idea how hard it could be for the GPU to render a 1M vertices object?
 
10:38 PM
@CatPlusPlus That lack of complexity can also trend to increased program size, because the compilers have to inline everything for example where on CPU you can use function calls.
 
But still
 
Xeo
screw your plinks!
 
For university I'm building a 3d labyrinth on a sphere
 
Xeo
@rightfold why?
 
@LoïcFaure-Lacroix um why should it care?
 
user1804599
10:39 PM
@Xeo Just wondering.
 
Xeo
@BartekBanachewicz cool, got a name?
@rightfold dunno, define 'good' :p
 
I'm curious about your thoughts on the matter that everything is stored. Are you concerned about your stored https/ssl/ssh streams being trivially decoded in the future?
 
I seriously doubt any game ever would hit like 1MB of shaders, and even that is nothing in GPU memory
 
@CatPlusPlus I agree. Just pointing out that the reduced complexity doesn't necessarily imply reduced code size.
 
10:40 PM
@LoïcFaure-Lacroix virtually nothing
 
user1804599
@ScottW I love make-up.
 
@LoïcFaure-Lacroix but why should you call it twice?
@Xeo "Linda Breitlauch"
 
@BartekBanachewicz if you have a SceneGraph that has shaders bound to objects it could happen I guess
 
Xeo
hm, nope, dunno her
 
@LoïcFaure-Lacroix ah weird stuff
 
user1804599
10:41 PM
@LoïcFaure-Lacroix If I had to do that in university I would have died.
 
I am doing OpenGL as raw as it gets
@rightfold why
 
user1804599
I don’t even know how to generate vertices of an approximation of a sphere.
 
user1804599
Let alone thinking about rendering it or putting a labyrinth on it.
 
@rightfold Icosahedron ftw
 
user1804599
I am extremely bad at geometry.
 
10:43 PM
The Faces are just a graph as long as each vertex are unique
 
user1804599
And matrices and all that crap.
 
user1804599
@ScottW sounds like the name of a sect.
 
then you can use some Path searching algorithm to generate a path to every single vertex in the graph...
then you have a labyrinth
This sounds harder than it looks.. I'm really stuck at building walls
I feel it will be fucking slow
I have around 3 million faces for the sphere at 6 level of recursion. If I add walls it will be much more than that... but if I have like 3 level of recursion it will be nice
 
user1804599
I cannot even remember how to multiply matrices.
 
@LoïcFaure-Lacroix maybe use tesselation shader
 
user1804599
10:46 PM
I know how to add them and that’s it. :v
 
@rightfold you don't have to remember that
GLSL has builtin mat4 type so...
 
@BartekBanachewicz I can't really, I need the graph to construct the labyrinth
 
user1804599
@BartekBanachewicz It might be handy to know what happens when you do something. :v
 
gl_Position = proj * view * model * position;
 
I could probably do everything in the shader but what's the point
 
10:46 PM
@rightfold you know what happens. You don't need to know how.
@LoïcFaure-Lacroix performance?
 
user1804599
Knowing how it works results in a better understanding of what happens.
 
well is it too slow now?
 
user1804599
So it is easier to think about it.
 
@BartekBanachewicz didn't work on my project for 3 months :(, I broke my library and it doesn't compile anymore
 
user3010322
@DeadMG True, true, but most GPUs also have a maximum instruction count for shaders (the older shader models on many cards were extremely stingy with this count; many have forsaken some of these limits in newer shader models and architectures), so by obeying those limits as well you usually end up with final code that is vastly, vastly, vastly smaller than any executable you'd make for a CPU. /cc @CatPlusPlus
 
user1804599
10:47 PM
But I cannot think at such a high level.
 
@rightfold meh. The fact that matrices get composed is enough
 
user1804599
Why would I use a matrix to store position.
 
user1804599
All I need is three coordinates.
 
@rightfold you don't store position in a matrix
@rightfold correct
 
user1804599
@BartekBanachewicz Oh. :P
 
10:48 PM
@rightfold position is not a matrix, there 3 other ones (proj, model and view) are
 
@rightfold matrices are transformations.
 
user1804599
I don’t know what model and view are.
 
user1804599
And projection neither actually.
 
@rightfold They are "parts" of the typical matrix stack setup
 
user1804599
Are they positions or rotations?
 
10:49 PM
don't mix!
@rightfold translations, rotations, scaling and perspective correction
 
@rightfold they are pretty much all at the same time
 
user1804599
Meh.
 
user3010322
Projection is basically just a fancy math for giving you perspective correction.
 
@CaptainGiraffe noticed your new avatar. Couldn't help but notice lack of contrast/discernability.
 
user1804599
I think I will keep with 2D graphics until I die.
 
user3010322
10:49 PM
@rightfold Good choice; you'd like a lot of Furrovine. :3
 
user1804599
Two coordinates and an angle baby.
 
@rightfold um in 2d graphics you just use 3x3 matrices instead of 4x4
 
 
user1804599
No.
 
@CaptainGiraffe Interested? I'll concede that it's a q&d job, the background colours aren't realistic anymore, but, it's an avatar, so that's not the key issue right?
 
user1804599
10:50 PM
I don’t use matrices at all.
 
user1804599
I have two data types: point and angle.
 
@rightfold Even 2d requires you to use a third component
 
user3010322
Er.... no, not really?
 
user1804599
Never needed it.
 
Your object (in local space, centered around 0,0,0) -> Model Matrix -> Your model in world space -> View Matrix -> Your model in camera space (from the camera's point of view) -> Projection matrix -> Your model in clip space (shit that was far away got squished and is now tiny)
 
user1804599
10:50 PM
2D graphics always worked fine for me with two coordinates.
 
user3010322
You need x, y and an angle, unless you're doing paper-mario style stuff.
 
@rightfold finding a perpendicular vector is easy with a Z
 
user3010322
If you're doing Parallax, you just draw different layers at different zoom.
 
user1804599
@ThePhD Well, and depth if you want to draw things on top of each other.
 
user1804599
But that’s not always the case.
 
10:51 PM
@rightfold in 2d graphics it works exactly the same. 3x3 matrix can represent any scaling, rotation and translation on a 2d plane
 
user3010322
@rightfold Which can usually be implemented as layers.
 
user1804599
@LoïcFaure-Lacroix What is perpendicularity?
 
user3010322
If you want layers for free, you use an extra "z" coordinate.
 
user1804599
@BartekBanachewicz But why would I use it?
 
user1804599
I can just use a struct with a point, a scaling factor and an angle. vOv
 
10:52 PM
@rightfold because of the ease of combining transformation together
@rightfold that doesn't take your view into account
 
(a) mathy
(b) versatility
(c) elitey

oh and

~~purformance~~
 
and if you have, say an object built of several sprites
 
user1804599
OIC.
 
you can easily move it around
 
user1804599
I never went that advanced.
 
user3010322
10:53 PM
You can build tree using other components too.
 
it's really not that hard.
 
user3010322
It's not that hard to just add the shit separately.
 
user1804599
I have never done anything with matrices.
 
user3010322
Matrices are not easy until you introduce a library like glm or eigen.
 
@rightfold never too late to try
 
10:54 PM
use glm also
 
> "college dropout syndrome"
 
user1804599
@sehe eh
 
(fulll disclosure: I'd have to read up too)
 
user1804599
You expect college to ever introduce that?
 
user1804599
10:54 PM
Aaahahahahah.
 
you should get linear algebra
 
@rightfold mine did
 
user3010322
They do. In fancy math-y terms called Linear Algebra.
 
mine did too
@ThePhD that was the easiest math on my uni
 
user1804599
@BartekBanachewicz It wasn’t on the list of subjects.
 
Ell
10:55 PM
I did matrices last year
 
user1804599
Nothing that had to do with mathematics was.
 
so if that was "fancy" for you then you suck more than I thought
 
user1804599
Only business crap and OOP.
 
user3010322
@BartekBanachewicz I believe you. Discrete Math and CS Theory's wank-wank-proof-wank is really irritating right now.
 
@BartekBanachewicz it's ok to stop now
@ScottW lol
 
10:55 PM
@ThePhD are you doing alpha-reductions too?
 
Ell
But I failed because I got an unclassified on my statistics exam
 
that was the best part
 
user3010322
I'm doing basic boolean and proposition reduction right now.
 
user1804599
I only like set theory and category theory.
 
Ell
Everyone takes the Michael out of me because of my statistics mark
 
user3010322
10:56 PM
I really hate it.
 
Ell
any time anything vaguely related comes up
 
@rightfold Never did any 3D, eh?
 
@ThePhD thank god I'm done with it
 
user1804599
It doesn’t involve much calculation and things that seem arbitrary.
 
@rightfold I've explained matrices to @Ell and @tony somewhere in the other chatroom in more depth
 
10:57 PM
my stats teacher left our university after my group messed with her
:(
 
@rightfold What the fuck. It's like basic university level math.
 
you might want to find that conversation
 
@ScottW But you need to /appreciate/ how hard it was to prove it :)
 
user1804599
Would you use a 2x2 matrix in a 1D world?
 
user3010322
@sehe That's like when my parent told me "It builds character."
 
10:57 PM
It does
 
BAAAACK!!!!
 
user1804599
And a 5x5 matrix in a 4D world?
 
Ell
@bartek iirc that was more of a an explanation of the application of matrices in graphics, if rightfold hasn't done them before hell have to start from square 1
 
user3010322
@rightfold 1 dimensional translation, I'm not sure what 1D rotation looks like, so that's out. There's scale along 1 dimension as well, so... yeah, just about.
 
Ell
You could use a 1x1 matrix for translation in a 1d world
 
10:58 PM
@ThePhD Tetris 1d think about it
 
user3010322
1D Matrix:
[ ScaleX, TranslationX ]
 
the only tetris you can't loose
 
user3010322
So... 1x2 ?
 
Xeo
@ScottW I'd imagine 1D rotation as contraction and inversion
 
well you could rotate by 180 degrees, no?
 
Ell
10:59 PM
Yeah
and in between you'd just decrease the value?
 

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