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2:00 PM
@sehe "future extension" is a dumb reason to write useless dead code that never gets used because the future extension either never gets implemented or gets implemented another way that does not use the dead code :/
 
am I remembering something wrong, but is it not better to look at time per operation, rather than operations per time. Something about the latter giving linear graphs, rather than some curve
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes partly removed legacy features? why else would the always-null-pointer parameter still exist?
 
user406009
Darn, I never would have believed how dull a programming class can make programming. No wonder people turn people away from programming after their first class.
 
@sehe lol
 
@ArneMertz those that still expect the old API to work can carry on passing it that object, it is just ignored internally.
 
2:02 PM
@ArneMertz API/ABI compatibility?
 
hi
 
If you never made use of the optional, now removed, features, your code still works.
 
@ArneMertz I'm not sure where the quote came from, but (venturing a guess) perhaps you should consider raising that point in the MSDN comments (if they're not too busy fixing their URLs)
 
@Evgeny thanks! your as_fusion_map works!!
2
you might want to submit just that functionality as a patch, it is really cool!
 
@gnzlbg coolness, who's adding that as the canonical answer at your question? /cc @EvgenyPanasyuk
 
2:05 PM
@gnzlbg Ok, thanks.
 
@thecoshman ok, I misinterpreted "always ignored" and "always null" then
 
@sehe I added it. Maybe we should move your answer to another Q (maybe make it) - because you have done great work. I.e. I remember needed access to names several times.
 
Howdy
 
@thecoshman Hopefully, it asserts instead. (Would code still work if a parameter is ignored?)
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes ignored as in never passed in, or ignored as in can be passed, but if it is it is never used?
 
2:10 PM
I would hope that the function, now that the functionality was removed, asserts that the argument is null.
 
@gnzlbg By the way, are there current compile-time reflection proposals like this one?
 
That way, old code compiled against the new version will not behave in mysterious ways, but just fail the first time a test is run.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes why? that would break the old code that is still expecting to be able to pass in an object. If you want to assert, why not just remove and let it be a compiler fault?
 
@thecoshman Because there's probably a lot of code that used the API with null even when the extra functionality was there. That code can still work.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I would assume that all code used to pass something in, and they just no longer need to. Those that do pass null have just be updated to no longer waste the time, but for some reason not to call an alternate function that just doesn't take that argument.
 
2:14 PM
I'm more interested on which parameter is always null.
 
But without looking at how that API has changed over time, this is most guess work
 
@Pawnguy7 Where'd you get that from?
 
@thecoshman FWIW, note that saying it is always null is not the same as saying it is ignored.
 
@Evgeny yes, im in the process of writing a minimal library solution for the one-way Array Of Structs to Struct of Arrays conversion. I can send you the gist as soon as I get it working (hopefully I'll finish it today)
 
Assuming the documentation is correct, it means the function doesn't work otherwise.
 
2:16 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes indeed. But a random sample of documentation is hard to understand.
 
@Rapptz WinMain
 
Ahh.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes see, I assumed he meant that quote was referring to a line that is calling a function where one parameter should always be null
 
@Evgeny the idea is to identify if the problem can be solved with a library, which components will be required for that, what would make writing the library easier, what would make the compilation process faster
 
@Pawnguy7 it's for compatibility with code targeting Windows 1.
 
2:17 PM
@thecoshman Yeah, me too.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes but that does not tell you if it has to be null, or just that you do not need to send this parameter anymore, so don't waste time creating the object to pass in.
 
@gnzlbg That would be nice, thanks. By the way, have you seen this talk? It has two nice features: identifiers template parameters (actually string) and overloading of operator. - he has even patch for Clang (proof-of-concept). I think identifiers template parameters can be used for reflection proposal.
 
It's the difference between ignored and reserved arguments.
 
On every computer I tried At the same result occurs on computers crash with the With the Windows blue screen error (Page fault error Page fault n area with no page.
It happens about 10 seconds after my mouse Which is being controlled by another computer using team viewer when I enter A VMware virtual machine running Mac OS X Input device is inside Mac OS X vm, The computer running the teamvieer Not the VM crashes with Blue screen error. No page fault.
 
@Abyx Things made for Windows 1 still run on the current API?
 
user1804599
2:19 PM
Yum.
 
user1804599
Popcorn.
 
Okay so What About it
 
I see you got rid of your mug shot :P
 
@FredMcgiff rainbows
 
> Historical note: At the end of the 20th century when this was written, "cool" was an epithet of approval particularly among young, indicating trendiness, quality, or appropriateness. In the rush to stake our DNS territory involved the choice of domain name and URI path were sometimes directed more toward apparent "coolness" than toward usefulness or longevity. This note is an attempt to redirect the energy behind the quest for coolness.
 
2:20 PM
Why should we Care about this
 
@thecoshman Always seems quite clear to me.
 
user1804599
lololol
 
@gnzlbg here are his slides: operator. overload
 
^ dose puns
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes yes, you should always pass in null for that argument of that function. Fine, I can accept that it must always be apss null... but why? what if I do pass it something? am I just wasting time, or will I break it, change the behaviour.
Or do you just blindly follow instructions?
 
2:22 PM
@EvgenyPanasyuk I remember that, I think. Was it the talk that 'duplicated' klmr's named operator?
 
@EvgenyPanasyuk woo
 
^
 
If it's reserved argument, then behaviour of your program might change unexpectedly in the future
 
Xeo
@sehe Wasn't it blah<-op?
 
@thecoshman Do you arbitrarily reinterpret documentation?
 
2:22 PM
This is how shitty broken software works
 
If so, don't ever complain about something having shitty documentation.
 
You're going outside of the API contract
 
@Xeo Yup, something of the kind. Basically "extension methods" with funky syntax
 
@sehe no, he implemented language extension (for Clang), which allows to do`template<string_id member_name> auto operator.() ...`
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes zing
 
2:23 PM
@sehe well those were 2 different things, as Xeo said
 
@thecoshman Point is, you don't pass it something. You pass it null, as requested.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Only when it proves my point!
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes what documentation? It's a comment at the calling site, detailing that this argument is 'always set to null'
 
in C# how do I give a value type the equivalent of a null in reference types?
 
oho pirate is on the run again
 
2:23 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes because...?
 
user1804599
@TonyTheLion T?
 
am I forced into using Nullable<T> here?
 
@thecoshman Oh. I see we're talking about different things.
 
@BartekBanachewicz Where did he say that? I happen to see a lot of overlap (free functions and expression templates to induce an 'overload context')
 
2:24 PM
@TonyTheLion Yes? (But you can write T? instead)
 
user784668
@thecoshman Because the docs say so.
 
... because you're not being thick.
And you like defined behaviour
 
@sehe I'd say the desired usage (operator vs extension method) is the biggest meaningful difference
 
user784668
@thecoshman Stop being dense, m'kay?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I did try to clarify that we were talking about calling site and note on the documentation for the function itself. Still, the documentation should say what happens if you pass something not null.
 
2:24 PM
I rebel against tyranny of documented API contracts
 
@thecoshman Yes, I see now. Sorry about that.
I disagree that the documentation should state what happens if you pass something else. Undefined behaviour is fine.
 
@thecoshman If it doesn't say, then it's undefined, and don't do it
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes no problems. ¬_¬ thanks for setting the hate crowd on me
 
@BartekBanachewicz true enough. There's always a mix of goal and method. I chose to highlight method.
 
0
Q: decrype file in c++, which was encrypted with openssl -aes-128-cbc

user2932510I'm trying to decrypte a file in c++. This file is encripted with the following command: openssl enc -nosalt -aes-128-cbc -pass pass:test -in "test.txt" -out "test_enc.txt" -p The console shows the key=098F6BCD4621D373CADE4E832627B4F6 and iv=0A9172716AE6428409885B8B829CCB05. In c++ i have inc...

:decripes:
 
2:26 PM
Anyone familiar with the WinAPI?
 
@thecoshman That just makes it undefined.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I think it should still say that it is UB though. Simple 'always pass null' is a bit poor.
 
@Pawnguy7 Yes, no, maybe
 
@Pawnguy7 define familiar
 
user1804599
If you eat human flesh and the human has aids, can you get aids from it?
 
2:26 PM
@Pawnguy7 they are the people who just started cringing
 
If it says "always pass NULL", then you should always pass NULL, I don't get what do you want it to say
 
@rightfold Is it rotten?
 
user1804599
@R.MartinhoFernandes no.
 
@CatPlusPlus ALWAYS PASS NULL OR ELSE
 
Well, there is CreateWindow
 
user784668
2:27 PM
@Pawnguy7 I'm only familiar with KillYourselfExW(NULL, NULL, NULL, NULL, NULL, 0, 0, FALSE, sizeof(int));
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes ouch
@Pawnguy7 stop using it
 
@rightfold Maybe just get a checkup?
 
Maybe don't eat people
7
 
It claims the first parameter is optional (registering the class), but it seems to not be working :\
 
@Fanael you forgot a NULL somewhere
 
2:28 PM
@rightfold yes; will you though is another question.
 
and this ZeroBrane thing is good
I love how they did configuration
it's a Lua file flavored with Markdown, that renders as hyperlinks that trigger scripts.
 
user1804599
@thecoshman you a few words.
 
@Pawnguy7 It's not optional if you want the window to be useful.
 
@CatPlusPlus an clear statement if it is UB, or will it just ignore this for you. Does this break code that used to pass an argument (thus you have to go update that).
 
Are @R.MartinhoFernandes and @thecoshman just arguing about everything that comes up? Or is the current argument still about URLs?
 
2:29 PM
I don't think it should be marked optional, though.
 
@rightfold no
 
@caps argue argue argue
 
@thecoshman It really doesn't matter what happens otherwise, you should just not do it
 
@caps with all the respect you feel you deserve, who the fuck are you?
 
2:30 PM
@caps The pirate is just attacking in all directions. It's a good thing we secured the windmills in the storm
 
@rightfold @sehe Redis looks like a very nice tool basing on the research I've conducted, but I am sadly beginning to see there's no silver bullet for what I want to do, so I am probably not going to use it just now.
 
@CatPlusPlus vOv I like to know why there is a shitty seemingly pointless argument
2
 
@BartekBanachewicz I was gonna say. You cannot expect to optimize "automatically". Optimizing is always done with the brains.
 
Reserved for future use
 
it's an argument in a point-free style
 
2:31 PM
Forward compatibility is a thing when volatile ABI is a thing
 
41 mins ago, by thecoshman
@sehe don't go making this meta-meta
 
@sehe not sure how the two relate, but whatever :S
@CatPlusPlus so why can't it say that?
 
You can't add or remove arguments to functions
You can't add or remove struct members
 
@sehe hurr -O2 durr
 
You can't change them either
 
user784668
2:31 PM
@EvgenyPanasyuk oh my, that's some ugly code
 
You can only create new ones
 
@CatPlusPlus huh?
how do work that out?
 
but really, it was about a shitload of index tables I would have to hold and update and the terrible tradeoff
 
Why do you think WinAPI has so many Ex functions
 
@CatPlusPlus because they never deprecate/remove old shit
 
user1804599
2:32 PM
@BartekBanachewicz indexed set.
 
@CatPlusPlus But he can stop using shitty arguments in the Lounge!
 
@thecoshman They deprecate things all the time
 
@Fanael but it allows to do some cool stuff, like extend Phoenix to _1.arbitary_name
 
@rightfold what's an indexed set?
 
@CatPlusPlus then the latter
 
2:32 PM
@BartekBanachewicz Now find your -O2 flag on architecture choices.
 
But breaking ABI just because is a crappy thing to do that breaks shitty old software
 
user1804599
@BartekBanachewicz a set that keeps indexes.
 
user784668
@EvgenyPanasyuk but ugly
 
1 min ago, by Bartek Banachewicz
but really, it was about a shitload of index tables I would have to hold and update and the terrible tradeoff
 
user1804599
Like, a DB index.
 
2:33 PM
so that ^
 
@thecoshman My user profile says "I am a software developer for a small company in Oklahoma. I work mostly in C++, but I also use SQL and work on some web-based projects."
deja vu
 
@CatPlusPlus It even breaks decent old software vOv
 
user1804599
@BartekBanachewicz indexed set does that for you. :v
 
That's another story
 
@caps your point?
 
@rightfold if you simply mean "automate index creation"...
 
@Rapptz haha
 
user1804599
You create the indexes once and the data structure updates and uses them automatically.
 
> There is an ECMA language with classes - it's called ActionScript and it's just as shitty as JS itself.
heh
 
> JS has callable attributes
Yes, that is the biggest problem with JS
Well done
 
2:35 PM
Okay. I'll stop. I'm tired. I'mma get the kids. Cycling and waiting for music lessons will probably be good for me
 
@sehe ¬_¬ come now
 
@rightfold thing is, I wanted a non-finite set of indexable properties.
 
Yeah. You know what. Have a ball
 
user1804599
Then you have to create indexes automatically.
 
@thecoshman You asked who I was. :shrug: Not sure what else to tell you. Except the word "amateur" should be in there somewhere. I've been lurking the lounge for, I guess 1-2 weeks.
 
user1804599
2:35 PM
Are you looking for MongoDB?
 
@CatPlusPlus I smell a Smalltalk fan.
 
@thecoshman This was still epic though:
5 mins ago, by thecoshman
@CatPlusPlus vOv I like to know why there is a shitty seemingly pointless argument
Thanks for that. Meta overflow
 
> This one is a biggie.
Not really
 
@BartekBanachewicz what were you saying about don't use it?
 
2:36 PM
@rightfold I went through a few of the NoSQL DBs and Redis seemed like the one I wanted. Is MongoDB better in what I want to do?
 
@BartekBanachewicz Only 24 days!
 
user1804599
@BartekBanachewicz I don’t know what you want to do exactly.
 
@caps wow a proper lurker
 
@sehe ergh...
 
user1804599
Redis is a key-value store, MongoDB is more like an indexed JSON (actually BSON) store.
 
2:37 PM
@caps He knows your handle. He just thinks you should leave him alone. And probably we all should, so we/he can normalize.
 
That article doesn't even touch on real bad things about JS
 
@sehe Normalize?
 
@thecoshman I couldn't have summarized it more apt-ly. Now, don't go making this meta meta meta, will you?
 
@caps just curious if you where someone I know to hate, or should just hate you anyway
 
@CatPlusPlus Yeah I noticed that.
 
2:38 PM
@caps Yup. You must be new here :/
 
@sehe you already did... did you?
 
@sehe Heheh, no comment.
 
@rightfold Imagine a game where a player can create units. For example, he creates a unit A, that applies buff "a" on units. Now, Unit B can only interact with the units that have Buff a on them. So, I need to do a query.
 
user1804599
Neither Redis nor MongoDB have schemas, so it should be fairly easy to have a non-finite set of properties.
 
@sehe no I don't, hence I asked
 
2:38 PM
cough. infinity and computing
 
Not that I'd expect a Ruby user to know anything about language design
 
I was just amused at the apparent length of the argument and was curious exactly HOW long it had been ongoing, or if it had shifted to an unrelated argument.
 
@sehe non-finite -> bound by memory
 
@sehe pie man?
 
@BartekBanachewicz s/memory/resources/
 
2:39 PM
> Because the two absolutely basic, crucial exceptions that you want to get and see every single time - NameError (...) and 'NoMethodError'
WAIT WHAT
 
@caps I tend to pick up from where I left of after lunch
 
user1804599
@BartekBanachewicz query is {buff: "a"} in MongoDB. You can put an index on buff.
 
Why am I still here.
 
2
A: LINQ: Select where object does not contain items from list

Tony The LionI have not tried this, so I am not guarantueeing anything, however foreach Bar f in filterBars { search(f) } Foo search(Bar b) { fooSelect = (from f in fooBunch where !(from b in f.BarList select b.BarId).Contains(b.ID) select f).ToList(); return fooSelect;...

I'm a terrible human being
 
@rightfold can I then do something like "Select every unit THAT have buff a" ?
 
2:40 PM
what DA FUCK is that answer???
 
@caps I spotted about 5 different hotspots of defiance there, today
 
1 min ago, by Cat Plus Plus
Not that I'd expect a Ruby user to know anything about language design
 
user1804599
@BartekBanachewicz That would be {buff: "a"}.
 
user1804599
(It’s the actual query.)
 
@rightfold do I have to index explicitely? Can a unit have multiple buffs easily?
 
user1804599
2:41 PM
@BartekBanachewicz Store it as {buff: ["a", "b"]}.
 
Why do you use NoSQL in the first place?
 
@sehe I know well enough to just accept your counting skills. I dare say you know how many times the French were mentioned
 
user1804599
Then you can query using {buff:"a"}.
 
user784668
@CatPlusPlus cuz its kewl
 
user1804599
 
2:42 PM
> This footer is more annoying than anything I've coded in js. Look up tuts on jquery device detection or css media queries.
 
user1804599
(Note that MongoDB is dynamically typed.)
 
@CatPlusPlus Good point.
 
@CatPlusPlus I am not using anything. I am trying to read up on the technology and see if it would be a good fit for what I want to do.
 
Okay, what do you want to do
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes goddamn stop sitting in my head, I literally had this in my clipboard :/.
 
2:42 PM
@CatPlusPlus use ruby obviously
 
4 mins ago, by Bartek Banachewicz
@rightfold Imagine a game where a player can create units. For example, he creates a unit A, that applies buff "a" on units. Now, Unit B can only interact with the units that have Buff a on them. So, I need to do a query.
 
@thecoshman Do the cananananadians count in this respect?
 
by "create units" I meant "create new types of units" obviously
 
(also, I'm outta here)
 
@BartekBanachewicz That... doesn't answer the question
What do you need the database for
 
2:44 PM
@sehe sure, close enough
 
@CatPlusPlus I didn't say I need a database. I need something that will allow me to get the data I need.
be it a database, a data structure, w/e really
 
user1804599
I gave an alternative to Redis as an option.
 
user1804599
Indexed set data structure should work fine.
 
indeed, I'll take a look at Mongo
 
Do I really have to fucking drill down with more and more basic questions
What is the original problem
 
2:45 PM
Purrformance obviously.
O(n) search if done by n objects (because each and every one uses some sort of query to evaluate its surroundings) is a tad too slow
 
user1804599
Use a hash table.
 
I could hash properties indeed.
 
Yeah I give up
 
@CatPlusPlus you suck at understanding problems
 
user784668
@BartekBanachewicz use memory
 
2:47 PM
No, you suck at stating them
 
@Rapptz These 'language X sucks' posts are dropping in quality.
 
@CatPlusPlus I don't get what you don't understand in my problem
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes They never had any quality to begin with
 
@CatPlusPlus They're not even fun anymore!
 
@BartekBanachewicz want to ponder an SFML question quickly?
 
2:51 PM
@Pawnguy7 nah, I have to head out to the classes
in ~2hrs
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes they're mem_fun.
 
You are leaving in 2 hours, or gone for that long?
 
I love C++. I love JavaScript.
 
That so?
 
user784668
@Abyx dat mem_pun
 
2:53 PM
@CatPlusPlus I'm going to write one about C++.
 
If you have nothing better to do
 
user784668
@R.MartinhoFernandes Do eet
 
user1804599
@BartekBanachewicz I had this in mind (with find and delete and update methods). Only problem is if you want to be able to mutate the returned Unit.
 
@CatPlusPlus Never stopped me.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes More coherently than the FQA?
 
2:56 PM
the FQA is awful
 
Meh, the FQA is just ranting.
 
@caps That's a little like asking "Drier than the Pacific Ocean?"
 
@JerryCoffin :p
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes As long as you don't plug a language in.
 
Which language would I plug?
 
2:59 PM
I don't know.
 
C#?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Sam76.
 
user784668
@R.MartinhoFernandes C$ > C!
 

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