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user1804599
5:00 PM
Wat
 
user1804599
Get out
 
what do you guys think about blackberry?
 
user1804599
That it’s dead.
 
I really like their new smartphones and the oS
and developing is easy on it
 
5:04 PM
I wonder how much longer non-smartphones will exist.
 
I still have black and white nokia
 
user1804599
@Pawnguy7 For quite long.
 
but I am gonna get BB Q10
 
@rightfold seems to by dying from my perspective, but it is more of an observation from afar.
 
user1804599
As long as there is demand it will exist.
 
user1804599
5:05 PM
And there is.
 
user1804599
Example audience: old people.
 
well samsung makes cheap android smartphones, so the demand is getting smaller and smaller
 
@rightfold Also, semi-Luddites.
 
That was what made me think of it.
 
@khajvah How cheap?
 
5:07 PM
I heard a story of an old relative who had difficulty finding such a thing.
 
i.e. people who need a cell phone for calls or even texting, but don't want to be "plugged in" all the time.
(people like me, that is)
 
well, I think you can get it for free with contract
 
> with contract
 
user1804599
In the long term it’s always cheaper to buy it without SIM lock and with a separate contract.
 
if not, less than $100
 
5:07 PM
@khajvah That doesn't count as cheap.
You have been able to buy all sorts of cellphones for a long time for free with contract.
 
the thing is, smartphones cost a lot in my country I don't know prices in other countries but I think most people can afford a smartphone
 
They can if they stop affording something else.
 
TIL of the existance of *_pointer_casts.
 
It's a matter of perceived benefit.
 
everything is
 
5:10 PM
Some people prefer to have a dirt cheap dumbphone and spend $100 elsewhere.
 
user1804599
\o/
 
$100 is still not the ballpark of dirt cheap dumbphones.
 
That's me but still
 
It has one digit too many.
 
smartphone is not something expensive any more
 
user1804599
5:11 PM
Yay.
 
user1804599
Got my paycheck.
 
It's not dirt cheap either.
I can get a dumbphone for 10 euro.
 
@Jefffrey what is that?
 
That's less than I make with an hour of work.
 
I bought mine with 30 euro
and that's the cheapest
 
Xeo
5:15 PM
@Pawnguy7 C++ casts for std::shared_ptr
@rightfold Or: People who value long battery life
like, hikers
 
user1804599
Last time I charged my phone was about four weeks ago.
 
Xeo
Is it just lying around? :P
 
Is that why you are unreachable?
 
:D
 
user1804599
@Xeo I use it to listen to music while cycling.
 
5:17 PM
at least it plays music
 
user1804599
And otherwise it’s in my pocket and I get a text message on occasion.
 
Xeo
Wait, do you have a smart or retro phone now?
 
new gravatar again rightfold?
 
user1804599
@Xeo Nokia C3.
 
symbian?
 
5:18 PM
Aw, I already miss the naive-looking kid picture.
 
user1804599
Steam is acting weirdly.
 
@rightfold as in, lagging? Because that's kind of normal for Steam
 
@rightfold Does it have a different mode of operation?
 
user1804599
When I hover over an avatar it shows half the popup.
 
user1804599
Yay Minecraft 1.7!
 
5:23 PM
Why do you guys hate java?
 
Because it sucks.
 
Been wondering that myself.
Not that it doesn't have shortcomings.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Why does it suck
 
Because we hate it.
 
user1804599
@khajvah It’s annoying.
 
5:25 PM
Don't you find hate to be a bit of a strong word in this context?
@rightfold Did it get slower again?
 
zch
It doesn't allow.
 
@Pawnguy7 I didn't start it.
 
user1804599
@Pawnguy7 Eh, it was never slow.
 
Honestly I never touched java but it seems pretty decent language
 
It's quite bland.
 
5:25 PM
@khajvah try using it then
 
@rightfold my 25 FPS says otherwise
 
@khajvah It has no useful feature.s
 
user1804599
60 FPS here.
 
user1804599
:V
 
Old laptops aren't good, apparently :D
Did I mention that is on tiny?
 
5:26 PM
I've had minimal experience with Java, but I thought its syntax was unnecessarily clunky
 
Clunky?
I thought it's syntax was fairly minimal.
 
user1804599
int xs[]; // ugh
 
What does c++ have that java doesn't, except memory management that is not always a good thing
?
 
Easier to tear your hair out :D
Anyway, templates, for one.
 
@khajvah lol
 
user1804599
5:28 PM
@khajvah templates, multiple inheritance, lambda expressions, RAII, type inference for variables and the C preprocessor.
 
To be fair, I think Java is getting lambdas.
 
@khajvah What does Java have that C++ doesn't, except manual resource management that is not always a good thing.
Oh wait, C++ has that too, if you're dumb enough to use it.
 
@Pawnguy7 I've never really used the language. Just a few intro programs. Just my impression.
Isn't multiple inheritance typically a bad idea?
 
user1804599
s/multiple //
 
@khajvah RAII.
 
5:29 PM
I will better just start using Java :D
 
I haven't used it much either, but in that time, I would say it has simpler syntax than C++.
 
user1804599
Everything has simpler syntax than C++.
 
If we are talking about the verbosity of the standard library, though.
That is something else entirely.
 
@Pawnguy7 Not difficult, though.
 
Well yes.
 
user1804599
5:30 PM
Except C++/CLI.
 
I think maybe Perl or PHP could beat C++ syntax, but not many other mainstream languages.
 
But if we are comparing which has the better syntax, C++ and Java specifically.
Not entirely sure what clunky means in this context though.
 
user1804599
@khajvah use Scala.
 
@Pawnguy7 it'll cock em up though
 
user1804599
Diner time.
 
5:31 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes you like perl?
 
user1804599
@thecoshman I like Perl! :D
 
@thecoshman I have no idea how they will work.
What is the C# version? Delegates or something?
 
C# has lambdas.
 
@rightfold ¬_¬ you like everything thus your opinion does not matter
 
5:33 PM
any1 familiar with MATLAB GUI?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Python? JavaScript?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes oh... php, didn't see that bit
 
any1 codes in MATLAB?
 
@caps Erm, no. Both have simpler syntaxes, without any shadow of doubt.
 
GUI?
 
5:34 PM
Python has beautiful synta
x
 
The one thing I definitely prefer with Java and C# though.
Declaring arrays as T[] array.
 
JavaScript has a bunch of semantic cockups, but the only weird syntax thing is the semicolon nonsense, I think.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Missed the context; I thought you were saying Perl and PHP had simpler syntax than C++
 
@Nikhil please kindly take the silence as a hint that nobody knows/cares
@R.MartinhoFernandes objects are a wank to use, well, classes
 
@caps Ah. No. I meant that they might beat C++ at having a horrible one.
 
5:34 PM
@thecoshman :(
 
@thecoshman Erm, that's not a syntactic issue.
 
eh
I might be alone in this, but I never thought C++ had a majorly problematic syntax.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Is Perl's that horrible? I've never used it but I've always understood it to be a straightforward scripting language.
 
Hmm, VS is lagging.
 
it could be Wide's syntax, but, considering that they started from C, it really could have gone a lot worse.
 
5:35 PM
@caps Haha. Perl is a textbook example of undecidable syntax.
 
@DeadMG what do you think about array declaration?
 
@Pawnguy7 Terrible. But again, that's a C inheritance, rather than C++.
 
@caps it can be terrible. You can write a lot of code with tiny symbols that mean nothing unless you know some obscure hyiroglyphs
 
also, make template alias.
 
@DeadMG Well, C inheritance is a major syntax problem in C++.
 
5:36 PM
@DeadMG C++ syntax makes a lot of sense to me. So much about it is explicit. As long as overloading has been kept to a minimum, of course.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I think that template aliases alleviate a lot of the problems.
 
@DeadMG inheritance or otherwise, the syntax is in C++.
 
No.
 
uncalled for IMO ¬_¬
 
Will C++ ever be able to get rid of C syntax inheritance?
 
5:37 PM
@StackedCrooked doubt it.
 
if you did template<typename T, int N> using array = T[N]; you could do stuff like array<void(*)(), 5> without too much issue.
 
But then you have shit like MVP and variations like dependent names defaulting to variables and so on.
 
@StackedCrooked Of course not.
there are way too many programs that are C compiled with a C++ compiler that nobody wants to pay to rewrite
 
And many redundant keywords.
 
Maybe there could be a keyword that you put at the beginning of the source file to indicate C++2 or something.
 
5:38 PM
@DeadMG Isn't that basically std::array?
 
@DeadMG they do not need to keep using the new version of C++ though
 
@StackedCrooked Or maybe, you could make it a file extension. And then maybe, you could just overhaul everything. And then you'd end up with Wide.
@Pawnguy7 No. std::array is certainly not a T[N]. It is a real class.
 
@DeadMG and maybe you could finish it :P
 
@thecoshman They get faster that way.
 
5:39 PM
@thecoshman I agree, but people bitch if you tell them they can't upgrade.
@thecoshman Hey, I fixed a bunch of stuff just today.
 
@DeadMG yeah, but your still using bitbucket so bleh
 
@DeadMG I mean to say, if it has a declaration syntax like that, I may as well use std::array, though I probably should be already.
 
soon I'll be able to handle some of the messier edge cases- a + b where one type is a C++ type.
@Pawnguy7 Yes, you really should be already.
 
a + b is fine, no?
 
the suckage of T[N] cannot be overestimated.
 
5:40 PM
I don't remember the last time I used an array of either type, really.
Seems everything is vectors now.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Where one type is a C++ type. So you're mixing ADL and overload resolution rules.
 
@DeadMG Ah. I thought you were still on syntax.
 
no.
 
A few months ago, I was a three-star programmer :D
 
lol
 
5:41 PM
@Pawnguy7 Static buffers are of limited utility.
 
@DeadMG vOv just force wrapper? maybe some metal heads too?
 
trust me, it's much better to use a std::vector you don't need than to use a T[N] instead of std::array.
 
Who is a two-ampersand programmer?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I imagine most of us have used the odd rvalue reference from time to time.
 
@ScottW this something I did, or?
 
Xeo
5:42 PM
@DeadMG "the odd rvalue ref"? I'm basically using nothing else!
 
@DeadMG Now that I think of it, I use universal refs all over.
 
@thecoshman Nah.
 
Like fucking all over, really.
Gonna change my description.
 
right now, I define ADL as per-type, like, each type performs its own ADL lookup, then unify the resulting overload sets at the end.
 
@DeadMG but the puns!
 
5:43 PM
so for Wide types, it's basically just the modules it came from, but for C++ types, I'mma ask Clang to perform ADL so that it'll be nice and true to C++ ADL.
 
Xeo
Wide sounds so messy
And that comes from C++ inheritence :P
 
I haven't used many rvalue refs, really.
 
eh
 
The only thing I have thought of recently that might warrant this is like... say, an inventory, that cannot change size. Using templates, probably.
 
it's not a problem you'll ever have if you don't try to deal with types which come from C++.
 
5:44 PM
Maybe some sorts of buffers, though I imagine everything using those is already made.
 
and frankly, I actually think the current system could work relatively cleanly.
ADL in the other direction is going to be a problem though.
I think I will need to modify Clang's source code.
 
so, can you use Wide yet? Just without C++
 
@thecoshman Well, you won't get far without asking Clang to use the operating system headers.
 
Does it have addition already?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yes, yes, I've had that for months now.
 
5:45 PM
@DeadMG ah
 
Dammit. Ruining our jokes forever.
 
@thecoshman But aside from that, it is actually somewhat usable.
 
Xeo
@DeadMG And subtraction?
 
although I will say that recently, I've introduced many many bugs, many of which I have not yet fixed.
@Xeo Yes.
I implemented all the integral operations.
 
5:46 PM
@DeadMG Sounds like progress!
New bugs = progress.
 
Xeo
@DeadMG bitwise too?
 
yes.
 
user1804599
> all
 
in fact
 
@Xeo Dammit. We really need new ideas for mocking.
 
5:47 PM
I also implemented floating-point, although currently there's no way to use floats except to get them from C++ since I don't have floating-point literals.
also I broke floating-point and boolean operations and have not yet fixed them.
 
@DeadMG std::stod("0.5"); haha
 
could work.
 
Xeo
@DeadMG So you can't have reversed pie? 3.14 | PI.E
damn, now I want pie
that backfired
 
no, you can't have that.
the next things on my list is fix boolean binary operations, which were bugged anyway
and then introduce combined Wide/Clang overload sets.
 
I hope you mean binary as in arity, not as in base.
 
5:49 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes Of course.
 
Short-circuiting too?
 
I also removed all the implicit conversion code.
@R.MartinhoFernandes Nope, that was a bug.
 
Oh, but they're intended, then?
 
yep.
 
Can overloaded versions short-circuit?
 
5:50 PM
no.
 
:(
Hmm, gotta bail.
 
bye bye robot
 
wait wait wait, Wide will not allow short-circuiting of boolean operators?
 
Xeo
@DeadMG Why not?
 
@thecoshman The primitives will. Overloaded ones can't. At least, not right now.
 
5:53 PM
@DeadMG I see, are you planning to allow it?
 
@Xeo Well, that would require a completely different mechanism to a normal function call.
 
Xeo
@DeadMG Laziness to the rescue - effectively allowing the user to say if it's short-circuiting or not.
 
no implicit laziness.
 
Xeo
Wide sucks!
5
 
lol
but seriously, implicit laziness would be a serious problem for me.
 
Xeo
5:55 PM
Puppy sucks!
6
 
even ignoring the issues of "Now I've gotta cover all the shit with purity"
there are concurrency and sync issues that I don't want to deal with.
what I might do
is make the standard operators used in the library accept a function on each end.
 
Xeo
nullary functions?
 
yep.
also, here's an unusual result of my current implementation
if you explicitly specify a return type, then you can get implicit conversions on the return value.
 
Xeo
uh, makes sense, if it's otherwise deduced
Works the same for C++ lambdas (and soon auto functions)
 
hm, that's not what I mean.
 
Xeo
6:07 PM
Oh, other end?
 
no, I mean, when you do return expr; then Wide will implicitly count it as return T(expr);.
i.o.w. conversions that would not normally be legal.
 
Xeo
Oh, so you implicitly make explicit conversions
 
yep
 
Xeo
that's kinda bad
 
yep.
 
user1804599
6:08 PM
Feels like PHP.
 
user1804599
Make it depend on a setting in wide.ini.
 
lol
 
also, I believe that I accidentally banned making variables of a deferred type.
 
0
Q: Best way to generate random numbers using c++11 random library

Smac89As the title suggests, I am trying to figure out a way of generating random numbers using the new c++11 <random> library. I have tried it with this code: std::default_random_engine generator; std::uniform_real_distribution<double> uniform_distance(1, 10.001); The problem with the code I have i...

primarily opinion based?
 
oh, now I remember why.
@Rapptz I agree. The "best" way? "Best" according to what criteria?
 
Xeo
6:16 PM
@DeadMG D:
 
@Rapptz lol
 
Xeo
@StackedCrooked: Can we get proper highlighting in the command box?
 
I love the top comment
> ... How does a beaver dressed like a bee nsfw look?
 
user1804599
6:30 PM
The Angry Beavers.
 
@Griwes I blame furries for the distinction.
 
0
A: Best way to generate random numbers using c++11 random library

memo1288No function will give you truly random numbers (unless you get them from some real-world random event, like atmospheric noise). But you only need to seed the generator to get different results, and a usual technique is to use the current time: #include <ctime> ... generator.seed(time(NULL)); T...

Uh, someone has missed the fact that hardware is getting better at generating entropy...
 
hmmm.
does final imply override?
 
no
 
6:37 PM
@DeadMG what if you have final in the base class, and there is nothing to override :E
 
then it seems dumb to mark it as final.
come to think of it
virtually every use I have of override should be final.
 
override just makes sure you're actually overriding the virtual function
final says "this is the last one, no more"
 
@DeadMG You should've written it like this: virtually every use I have of override should be final
 
yeah, but it doesn't make sense to me to have a final function that doesn't override anything.
 
A class that is final means you can't inherit it.
 
6:45 PM
I didn't know that C++ had final classes as well as final functions.
 
@Rapptz classes can be final?
 
Yeah
 
finalize ALL the classes!
 
I used it in my game engine
 
Yes, and even if they couldn't, you could just make the destructor final ;d
 
6:46 PM
you want to inherit my stuff? screw you, I'll give it all to charity!
 
user1804599
I like sealed more.
 
@DeadMG They probably stole that from Java.
 
well
the one thing you can depend on Java to do is inheritance.
 
user1804599
Object in Java should be final.
 
rofl, that's moronic
Object simply shouldn't exist.
 
6:51 PM
Java is moronic, so it would fit.
 
true enough.
@Rapptz HELP IT'S A GAME PROGRAMMER
 
user1804599
HELP IT'S A GAY PROGRAMMER
 
lol
 
Gay programmer stares at inheritance graph: "Oh my god, that looks awful, what did you do to you HEIR?"
 
dat pun
 
6:55 PM
I'm thinking about buying one of those. It looks so fucking cool!
 
room topic changed to Lounge<C++>: In Belgium this message can't be changed. [c++] [c++11] [c++1y] [no-questions]
 
@FredOverflow is that a Heat-Sync??
 
Heat Sink, yes.
 
user1804599
 
user1804599
^ nice answer badges :)
 
6:59 PM
@caps Wait, I think I found something better:
 

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