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3:00 AM
of course if the user wants to build immediately then you'd have to load all files.
perhaps some kind of serialized AST/codegen structure could work.
anyway first I need to fix overloads and overload resolution and such.
that part of the compiler doesn't even compile right now.
@Pawnguy7 OBTW, one trick I learned to counteract this is to go one file at a time.
 
@Mysticial are you done with work?
 
Yeah.
 
so you could run the benchmark now?
 
You can send it to me now, and I'll put it on the queue.
 
what would be your preferred way of sending?
(also, it's -march=bdver2 for your CPU, right?)
 
3:11 AM
Granted, I'm trying to figure how to stabilize the memory on it. Since I just discovered today that it isn't completely stable. But that shouldn't matter for your CPU bench.
@nightcracker Correct. Also note that Windows is the only OS I have on it right now.
 
well
turns out that if you just remove all the code that implements binary expressions, most of it will compile :P
 
@Mysticial it's a console app, when run it'll say press any key to begin (this give you time to set up processor affinity and/or process priority, if need be), then it'll benchmark for ~30 sec, then prints out cycles/byte and wait for another keypress before exiting
I'm obviously interested in how many cycles/byte it reported
 
thanks mate
 
3:15 AM
@Mysticial I change my own harddrive, add ram and fiddling around with BIOs
 
@User17 ah ok.
In this case, it's a brand new computer. The parts haven't been tested together. And I did mess with the ram timings because it wouldn't run up to speed.
So I'm blaming it on the ram timings that I set for it.
Which bugs me though, because I have no experience with overclocking memory. So even if I do find the right timings to use, I don't know how much of an extra safety margin I need to set it higher to be reliable in the long-run.
 
@Mysticial the ram you got doesn't run up to speed...so you're overclocking it further? :)
 
Whereas for a CPU, I know that 5 - 10% clock speed reduction from stress-test stable is enough to keep it stable for life.
 
why bother overclocking ram
(honest interest)
 
I thought that every benchmark, ever, determined that overclocking RAM was a pointless exercise?
 
3:21 AM
@melak47 No. It's rated at 1866. But the BIOS chooses 1600. I'm trying to "overclock" it back up to 1866 by looking up the manufacturer recommended ram timings.
 
@Mysticial Might be a motherboard limit.
 
goddamn
 
@MarkGarcia The mobo can handle 2133.
 
you can really tell the difference between TUs that include LLVM or Clang headers, and those that don't.
 
@Mysticial maybe you can get lower timings or stuff if you leave it at 1600mhz? :)
 
3:23 AM
@Mysticial Wow. That's almost double as mine.
 
The docs say, 10-11-10-30 1.5V. Which is how I'm able to get the thing to boot. The BIOS wasn't able to figure out those timings. That's why it chose 1600. So I manually entered it in.
But there's other timings that are not mentioned, such as the tRC.
 
hmm
 
Which my BIOS auto-selected to be 45. I'm probably gonna try relaxing that a bit.
 
apparently I have 533MHz DDR3.
 
Generally, you want RAM timings/FSB clock speeds to match or have a compatible ratio with the CPU's. That's why I don't deal with RAM OCing that much.
 
3:24 AM
I didn't realize they went that low.
 
Or alternatively, increase the voltage to 1.55V or something.
@MarkGarcia I've never actually OC'ed ram before.
 
@DeadMG that doesn't sound right
 
or when it says "DRAM frequency", do I double that?
or maybe it really means the Northbridge frequency?
 
Something like that.
Yes, it's double.
 
ah k
I need to replace this machine anyway.
 
3:25 AM
So you're running 1066.
 
lol. I've never understood what those meant.
 
four years is longer than most machines I've owned.
hmmm
let us attempt a strategy to reduce our compile times.
 
take a trip on a rocket going at relativistic speeds
 
So I found this handy tool. Pretty useful if you're distributing or archiving the VS docs.
Also useful when migrating to newer VS.
 
@nightcracker "3.519843" The CPU was bouncing between 4.1 and 4.2 GHz.
 
3:30 AM
> Do you need help? Download 2GB of help now!
@Mysticial so you went with a bulldozer v2 for moar coars? :)
 
@melak47 lol. At least it'll save you much time if you're using multiple computers. Or accidentally uninstalled some VS stuff.
 
@melak47 No, I wanted the FMA4 and XOP instruction set.
 
I've actually done that. Though the warnings still bugs me.
 
@Mysticial That's slower than my machine
 
Bulldozer isn't a fast processor.
 
3:33 AM
@Mysticial which I don't understand
 
That's why Intel has been destroying AMD.
If you're using 256-bit instructions - don't.
 
Do instructions have like lower throughputs?
@Mysticial what is a 256-bit instruction?
 
Bulldozer's has shit performance with 256-bit SIMD.
 
oh I dont
 
@nightcracker 256-bit AVX instructions.
 
3:34 AM
it's all 128 bit
 
ok
 
it's 3 in parallel though
 
@MarkGarcia lol.
 
@Mysticial let me actually look up some other AMD benchmarks to compare
 
ok
well that was an utter failure of a strategy.
let's put all that stuff back where it belongs.
 
3:36 AM
@Mysticial what was the model number of your CPU again?
 
FX-8350
Stock settings.
 
@Mysticial why did you choose for this CPU, if you know it's slower, if I may ask?
 
I wanted the instruction set.
 
XOP?
 
whatcha gonna do with it
 
3:38 AM
It's actually not that slow. It's only like 20% slower than my 4.2 GHz OC'ed Sandy Bridge.
 
@Mysticial which sandy bridge?
 
2600K
 
same here :)
 
@Mysticial Dont they have shit performance all around?
 
@Borgleader It's much worse with 256-bit.
 
3:40 AM
@Mysticial your CPU is comparable to A10-5800K right, assuming I don't use the extra cores/cache?
 
I have code that's like 30% slower on AVX than on SSE.
 
maybe you just suck? :P
 
@nightcracker AMD makes warplanes now?
 
I have no idea what the A10-5800K is, lol.
 
Piledriver is a microarchitecture developed by AMD as the successor to Bulldozer. It primarily targets the desktop, mobile, and server markets. The changes over Bulldozer are largely incremental. Piledriver uses the same 'module' design with main improvements to branch prediction and FPU/integer scheduling, along with a switch to hard edge flip-flops to improve power consumption. In practice this resulted in clock speed gains of 8–10% and a performance increase of around 15% with similar power characteristics. FX-9590 is around 30%-35% faster than FX-8150 on stock speed thanks to far hig...
no. no onebox. ...
 
3:41 AM
 
@melak47 An A10 is not a warplane. It's a strangely-shaped, all-terrain tank.
 
@Mysticial the A10-5800K seems to be a slightly (0.2ghz) slower clocked, dual core, less L2 cache, FM2 socket piledriver
@Mysticial but none of that would affect cycle/byte counts, if not using cache, right?
 
I'm assuming it's completely compute-bound?
 
@JerryCoffin lol
I think I said I was gonna go to bed like 3 hours ago. gotta get up in 5 hours ._.
 
@melak47 G'night.
 
3:46 AM
night
@Mysticial don't break your shiny new RAM :P
 
@melak47 Good night.
 
@melak47 Fuck it. I'm probably just gonna drop it back to 1600 with tighter timings until I'm done using it for what I need it for. Then I'll go and mess with the 1833 again - along with OC'ing the CPU as well.
The ram isn't crashing tonight. Probably because it's cold right now.
But it was failing 1/3 tests during the day.
 
@Mysticial Liquid helium FTW.
 
Higher temperature = higher resistance = slower response times = higher probability that the transistors won't respond in time for the next cycle.
@JerryCoffin I've seen people do that. It scares me. :)
 
@Mysticial what is compute-bound?
 
3:50 AM
@nightcracker Your benchmark?
brb, while I run to the other room to set the memory down to 1600.
 
what does it mean, I mean
 
@nightcracker Not IO-bound. :P
 
oh yes 100% compute-bound
 
@Mysticial I've seen videos--that was close enough for my taste.
 
like almost 0 I/O involved
 
3:57 AM
Normally servers sits in a air cond room, below 10 degrees
 
@Mysticial My implementation on AMD is apparently better than the fastest known one for ChaCha20, while my algorithm is literally ChaCha20 + extra additions
 
Servers like to be by themselves, they don't like hang around with humans
they have room of their own ... :x
a very very cold room
just to keep humans out >_<
 
Oh hey, I didn't realize that my mobo does have AMP. So I selected that and it choose 1866 - with slightly different settings than what it defaulted to when I manually entered timings and let it set everything else.
I'll try this new setting and see if it holds.
 
For a minute there I forgot User17 was Telkitty
 
And I'll know not to trust any heisen errors on that machine until I know it's absolutely stable.
 
4:03 AM
hmmm
overload resolution is definitely one of those "Stare at the screen until something comes to you" things.
 
4:14 AM
@Borgleader I wonder if it's a Half-Life 2 reference.
You know, City 17 and all that.
 
I can totally imagine Telkitty as a Combine Advisor.
 
4:45 AM
0
Q: CPU variable type

Joshua WaringI was working in Visual Studio when happy little innocent intellisense said there was a variable type called cpu I can't find anything about it online, because all google will return is the Central Processing Unit. Does anyone know what the cpu variable does or stores?

Interesting.
Kinda funny but it's also showing in mine.
 
alright, now I think I broke basically... everything.
oh, apparently not.
how that happened I don't know.
 
5:07 AM
wow I didn't realize africa was that big
fuck mercator projection
 
ergh.
no wonder all the tests were passing... my harness was set up to swallow all the old-style errors.
alright, now six out of eight fail.
 
5:33 AM
if you rotate africa 90 degrees counter-clockwise it looks like a horse's head
 
LOL
 
wtf, dude.
if you just stick any bit of continent in any place, you could of course make practically any shape.
 
Why does this smell pedophile?
 
6:01 AM
I fucking love override.
 
it looks like your mom
 
@DeadMG I've been using it lately too. Have saved me from silly mistakes a couple of times.
 
His mum is a pedophile?
 
I don't believe it's ever saved me from a mistake.
I just love the way you push "Build" and the compiler calmly points out every place you need to change.
 
calmly being the keyword
 
6:04 AM
well I admit, part of it is the compiler screaming "ER MAH FUCKING GERD, DUDE, YOU FUCKED UP".
 
Hehe. Sometimes I wonder that if the compiler's so nosy about our mistakes, then why can't he correct it himself. :/
 
Let's hope not.
 
@osimerpothe Well, wrong timing. :)
 
if I want to hash a set of things, and I want two sets with the same members to be equal, I can just += the hash of each member, right?
 
And the two sets' hashes equal, I guess yes.
 
6:09 AM
never before have I used a hash set as a key into a hash map.
the new and exciting things I get up to.
 
6:50 AM
argh.
I just spent an HOUR trying to determine why my code generator wasn't generating code.
turned out it was the mock code generator...
 
7:02 AM
hey
 
user1804599
7:12 AM
hey
 
user1804599
@nightcracker most highly-developed Africa ever.
 
@DeadMG it was mocking you
 
yeah I got that feeling
hmmm
how did this code ever function correctly...?
 
7:42 AM
hey guys
whats up?
 
@StackedCrooked is this site yours?
 
my serial downvoting got reversed! :D
 
I scratched my face
 
8:01 AM
woot, I unbroke everything.
well, not "everything", but some things.
 
morning
 
a month & an half, my question is still getting me reps, lol
 
I'm thinking about registering a new domain for my personal site, seeing as nclabs died
I'm thinking about opete.rs (my real name is Orson Peters)
 
kindly permit me to pin that message, clearly revealing it for all to see
 
I think it is nice, but I am not a rep whore, I don't care about it that much.
 
8:09 AM
@User17 2l8
 
218? too late?
 
@nightcracker I think that stuff is way overused. I much prefer to see stuff like xyz.com than x.yz
 
8:26 AM
@JerryCoffin lol Jerry what are you doing @ this hour :D
 
8:47 AM
@User17 actually, it's the answer that's giving your question the reps :/
 
@sehe without my question, there will be no reps for the answers
 
Symbiosis. The question is only upvoted because many others have the same question and it is therefore useful. Had you not asked, the answer would still have been given, on a different instance of the same question :/
 
might be answered by someone else
those no rep for the one who answered my question
 
I don't get your point. You'll have to agree that the answer is kinda impressive.
I wasn't talking about anyone's individual rep. I was talking about the quality of the answer in relation to the number of upvotes for the question. (Never mind who posted them)
 
user1804599
9:04 AM
What answer?
 
@ScottW Maybe you should remove this message. I'm not sure you wanted everyone to know (google indexes everything)
@rightfold The baffling one
 
user1804599
Baffling baffling Baffling baffling baffling baffling Baffling baffling.
 
Hehe/I see what you did there
 
user1804599
Sehe/Me too
 
user1804599
I constantly think my name is written in italics. :|
 
9:06 AM
CP/M-36
@rightfold Hmmm? Are you using custom CSS again?
 
@thecoshman I don't mean the pumpkin, I mean Cthulhu.
 
Oh. The pirate will feel relieved.
 
user1804599
@sehe No.
 
user1804599
I’m using an abysmal monitor.
 
Hello
Does any one here have experience with Microsoft Dynamics CRM?
 
9:10 AM
@rightfold That is abyxmal
 
user1804599
@Zubair1 No.
 
@Zubair1 Do you think we would like to be reminded? At least provide a trigger warning, next time.
PTSD is no laughing matter
 
> I found your name on stackoverflow, and your passion, background and skills are impressive.
3
 
user1804599
@sehe CREATE FUNCTION warn() RETURNS TRIGGER AS $$ RAISE WARNING 'OMG LOOKOUT!' $$ LANGUAGE plpgsql; CREATE TRIGGER warn BEFORE UPDATE ON customers FOR EACH ROW EXECUTE PROCEDURE warn();
 
@CatPlusPlus Oh. You got that, too?
 
9:14 AM
Heh
 
Did you guys see the tutorials section on cpp-reference?
 
It's pretty alpha, but I think it's a very good idea.
 
Ell
I've seen it
Not much content yet
 
user1804599
@bamboon Yes.
 
9:34 AM
@ScottW flag for moderator attention!
 
user1804599
The C++ standard library should include a barcode generation library.
 
Oh hey, @rightfold one for you: stackoverflow.com/questions/6964392/…
@rightfold Glaring omission, yes
 
user1804599
@sehe I have seen that one already.
 
0
A: c++ barcode encoder/decoder library

Moataz ElmasryFirst 3 results from google search :) libarp c++ barcode library bar code image generation

@rightfold You failed to vote?
@Ell how's your swf parser coming? I realized later that I actually answered a question about it before:
8
A: command line extract from SWF?

seheRelevant quote from http://www.adobe.com/content/dam/Adobe/en/devnet/swf/pdf/swf_file_format_spec_v10.pdf The header begins with a three-byte signature of either 0x46, 0x57, 0x53 (“FWS”); or 0x43, 0x57, 0x53 (“CWS”). An FWS signature indicates an uncompressed SWF file; CWS indicat...

 
I use the new keyword specifically because I wanted to create the object on the heap, not on the stack, it's safer since it doesn't risk stack overflows (although a single object won't do anything, but still) — Electric Coffee 1 min ago
 
9:42 AM
It deals with compression. Dunno whether it is another "level" of compression (actually, the OP reminded me by asking for clarifications months after I answered it)
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes rofl
 
#include "hidden_functions.h" // contains the Circle class (proceeds to argue about the sasfety of manual memory management on the free store. Yup. Oodles of sense it makes) — sehe 22 secs ago
'Nuff said
 
@bamboon I have to admit it's a good argument, if only because I have no words to reply.
 
It's golden.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I actually prefer if people are blunt and outspoken about their (broken) reasoning. It's fixable. And it paints an honest picture of their level of expertise. Too many times, askers are "keeping up appearances" on SO
 
user1804599
9:48 AM
Oops.
 
I've managed to smash the stack with one object before
 
user1804599
I just scanned a barcode while I was in command mode.
 
user1804599
And it scanned “2013000142.”
 
user1804599
:F
 
user1804599
9:49 AM
Now ST2 crashed.
 
Hint: your 'solution' to stack overflow is fraught with a lot more potential danger than what you were 'solving for' in the first place too. Please accept the gentle prodding of the SO c++ community as a sign that you are learning nice things :/ — sehe 3 secs ago
 
Why would you ever 1 byte align something on x86?
 
@CatPlusPlus Oh, that's easy: std::bitset<(1ul<<20)> die;
 
user1804599
@TonyTheLion to save PRECIOUS RAM.
 
@TonyTheLion Because x86 includes 8086?
 
9:51 AM
urgh
@sehe haha
 
It's the right answer. Don't laugh!
 
apparently done for "performance" reasons
 
Because you have OCD and UNUSED RAM CANNOT BE ALLOCATED
 
I just don't see the "performance" gain here
 
It's not performance, it's exact opposite
 
9:52 AM
that's what I thought
its going to completely misalign things
 
@TonyTheLion Yeah, to kill performance, likely (unless they're optimizing data to fit within cache lines)
 
and cause horror
 
@CatPlusPlus Not exact ^ It depends
 
lots of memory mapping going on
but that couldn't possibly have to do with it
I would guess
but maybe
 
Low-level shit anyway
 
user1804599
9:53 AM
@TonyTheLion You don’t want to allocate all those extra pages when you can fit everything into one page!
 
Xeo
With Arg == C&, const Arg& (or Arg const&) == C& const& == C&. — Xeo 7 secs ago
 
10:08 AM
I'm wondering how to provide functionality to smuggle invalid Unicode data into decoded sequences in ogonek.
 
Xeo
Why'd you want that?
 
Because some people are stupid and encode invalid data to start with, and I want to provide non-lossy ways of dealing with that.
Most filesystems allow you to name files with any random garbage.
Java .class files use invalid overlong UTF-8 sequences.
 
Xeo
@Xeo I didn't know that... why don't you put this in an answer with a proper reference to a resource that explains it (e.g. the C++ standard or an article). I understand whay you're saying, but I never thought the const can be removed this way. — gnobal 8 mins ago
If I wanted to write answer-answers, I'd do so. :( TME though
 
@Xeo TME?
 
Xeo
So if anyone wants, that one is up for grabs (has to do with reference collapsing)
@bamboon Too Much Effort
 
10:17 AM
@R.MartinhoFernandes "Disclaimer: ogonek does not support Java class files"
 
Xeo
Like, looking for the standard quote
 
@Xeo ah ok
 
@melak47 Well, it's just an example meant to illustrate how these kinds of shenanigans aren't that uncommon.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes so are you saying the ends justify the means?
 
No?
I'm saying this isn't a far-fetched scenario.
As much as I don't like it, people do shit like this, and some other people may have to deal with their silly choices.
 
10:20 AM
@R.MartinhoFernandes yeah, it sucks, but libraries kind of have to be pragmatic
 
user1804599
Yay.
 
user1804599
80 rep in ten minutes.
 
time to pay your rep income tax
 
I think I'll allow encoding forms to be tagged as "broken" (naming is still a WIP :P), and then make decode return sequences that aren't tagged as well-formed if the encoding is "broken".
 
I like "broken" :)
 
user1804599
10:25 AM
@melak47 sounds like something labour party would do.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I still mean ¬_¬
 
That means the result gets forcibly validated as soon as you pass it somewhere that expects safe data. You can easily pass it around as a dumb blob, but the moment you want to treat it as text, you are forced to sanitise it. Neat.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes seems reasonable enough.
Are you saying the conversion will be done for you, or would you have to call a 'makesafe' function to pass it to something that only takes 'safe' data?
 
@jalf Yeah. In the end I want to help solve actual problems.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Wut. Aren't those just binary?
 
10:37 AM
@sehe They have strings in them. Like class names, or string literals.
 
Can anyone tell me anything about Redis database?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes oh in the actual content, I thought you just meant filenames
 
user1804599
#define int long long
int main() { } // > very strange error: '::main' must return 'int'
 
user1804599
Epic fail.
 
@BartekBanachewicz ... it's a bit redish
 
user1804599
10:39 AM
@BartekBanachewicz It’s a hash table.
 
Yeah, it certainly is. Anything that I wouldn't like about it? I need it to store game objects; there's too many of them and I don't want to optimize that manually
 
@thecoshman Most places that only accept well-formed data follow the same pattern. There are two overloads, f(sequence) and f(sequence, error_handler), and a call f(x) is equivalent to f(x, throw_errors). Other builtin error handlers are replace_errors, ignore_errors, and assume_valid. The last one is the advanced dangerous one mostly intended for interop (results UB if the sequence isn't actually valid). You can also write your own handlers to do whatever you want.
 
@rightfold I want something like Lua tables, but with nicer query support.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes is this the pattern your ogonek functions follow, or what you expect users to do?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes that's... weird. It must be for portability reasons, then :}
 
10:41 AM
@thecoshman The pattern in the library.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes why bother with the f(x) then? do you really need all those f(x){f(x,throw)} things floating around?
 
@BartekBanachewicz I dunno. It's a shame they don't have a project web page, and there are so few comparisons with Riak, Hadoop, HBase, Cassandra, Memcached to be found on the nets.
 
user1804599
@BartekBanachewicz Redis querying interface: redis.io/commands.
 
user1804599
Note that Redis requires a server.
 
user1804599
At least, last time I checked.
 
10:46 AM
@R.MartinhoFernandes I'd like to request a mode that asserts that input must be invalid (assert_invalid) and one that invokes UB (preferrably in a way that is silent on most implementations) if the input is valid (assume_invalid)
 
@thecoshman More like, do I really want the user to f(x, blah) all over?
It's a small price I pay for user convenience.
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes template<class Seq, class EH = throw_errors_t> auto f(Seq s, EH handler = throw_errors)!
 
@Xeo That might actually be what I use. Don't quite remember.
(I was describing what it looks like for the user, not the implementation :P)
 
Xeo
sure
 
I like that you don't remember. This is the kind of thing I can never bother to remember too. It's the plumbing, and it should remain the plumbing :)
 
Xeo
10:49 AM
I actually like the version with default arguments more, since it says in the interface what the default behaviour is, unlike the overloads without handler argument where it needs to be in the documentation
 
I remember switching back and forth from the two options because of some compiler issue. Don't know which one won.
In some cases it has to be with overloads, because of explicit ctors.
Yay, my pull request of -9 lines to Eigen was accepted.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes is this system exposed to the user then?
 
Not sure what you mean. The user gets a default behaviour (throw on invalid data), and the chance to override it by passing an extra parameter.
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes So the type can still be constructed with list-init?
 
@Xeo Yeah, that. :S
 
Xeo
10:54 AM
:/
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes at first I thought you meant this system was only for stuff used behind the scenes. Turns out you mean it is part of the public interface to your library. In which case, using a 'shortcut' like this should be reserved for when it makes sense the majority of the time. Not using the shortcut should be an edge case, IMO
 
Why?
I expect most uses will involve well-formed data anyway.
(And in that case, the library optimises it away to no validation)
 
yeah, so most of the time the default makes sense
if you end up having to provide an explicit error handler most of the time, the shortcut version is 'wrong'
 
You will want to provide it on interop boundaries, mostly.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes did you need to be so negative :/
 

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