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Xeo
12:01 AM
@CatPlusPlus It corrected after starting the burn
to 30s
 
@Ell What's wrong with the WoW economy? too many spambots?
 
It is pretty meaningless
 
it's virtual money in a virtual world, of course it's meaningless.
 
Look at EVE
 
I'd argue that's still meaningless
 
12:06 AM
@DeadMG I am yet to find a game without spambots.
With sufficient enough users online.
 
some games have more than others.
 
Is it more rewarding in some than others?
 
yeah
 
How can it be countered?
 
if I knew, I'd be a rich man.
 
12:10 AM
Make relevant-content-spam-bots
 
Only system in place I have seen is just chat limiting.
Which hurts legitimate people.
 
usually, you rely on the users to flag bots, which you then ban.
but most of the time, they just re-register
 
Yup.
Speaking of bots.
 
hmmm
 
Runescape has - or had, anyway, though I doubt it has changed - many... grindy tasks.
 
12:12 AM
vector(Range) constructor- explicit or implicit?
 
Say, click on a tree here, click on a tree there.
So, people made bots to do it for them.
 
@Pawnguy7 Welcome to MMORPGs.
No.
 
Anyway, some... people theorizing on the economy of it, said that the bots are needed, as they keep the price of these resources low.
 
@DeadMG Implicit is fun.
 
@LucDanton I'm not really seeing the problem with implicit here myself.
 
12:15 AM
I came across a gamedev SE question on these economies, actually.
Apparently that problem, much like in real life, is unsolved.
 
@Pawnguy7 It's a bit of an unanswerable question.
 
Might be.
 
the resources might be too hard to get without the bots
but they might not be.
a lower-priced resource does not automatically make for a better game.
high prices are more desirable in some contexts
 
Not sure. Perhaps the prices of everything rises?
Observing supply and demand is kind of fun.
 
well you'd expect that the price of many things would rise if the bots all left.
on the other hand
you might well find that people enjoy the game more, because going out and earning resources themselves is more profitable.
 
12:18 AM
Yes.
 
Xeo
@Pawnguy7 Gaming the AH in WoW was fun for a while
 
it's actually quite a parallel to the real world
 
Xeo
Although it's tough on the biggest German server (I played on Frostwolf)
 
AH?
 
you might well argue that the Chinese, taking all the manufacturing jobs for super-cheap, are lowering the price of everything for Western consumers.
but they also price the Western manufacturers out of the market.
 
Xeo
12:19 AM
@Pawnguy7 auction house
 
the problem is whether there are enough non-manufacturing jobs to do for all the Western citizens.
 
There was also a bit of, albiet limited, market speculation.
Say, they announce update X.
Bunch of buys/sells based on proposed effects, etc.
 
Xeo
@LucDanton Per what definition of "fun"? :P
 
and
IMO, the other major problems facing the West is that the Chinese can do things for cheap, so all of our old inefficient systems are no longer capable of competing
like universities.
and many of our collective rules are resulting in virtually all the money in the economy going to a few wealthy individuals and corporations
aided by the fact that government is really fucking slow to catch on to all their tax dodging routines.
and the governments are too busy pissing on each other and spending money spying on their citizens to deal with it.
 
@Xeo The one where you do get in the mood to play with things that connect with one another in interesting ways.
 
12:23 AM
Nobody knows.
 
Xeo
@LucDanton Guess it kinda makes sense for ranges to convert to each other
 
There's a really interesting theory that says that our current societal collapse is a result of relatively simple demographics, and it can be quite easily predicted.
 
Joe
@DeadMG shouldn't be removing messages that question your theories bro
 
@DeadMG That didn't need to be binned, right. Be a man. Face the challenge of enduring a personal qualification
 
@Xeo Mine don't do that actually. Can't imagine it'd work.
 
12:25 AM
@Joe bro? Get out
 
The government ineffective? Who would have thought.
 
 
Joe
@sehe whats up bro?
 
Xeo
Hint: People don't seem to want to answer your question.
 
@DeadMG societal collapse?
 
12:27 AM
 
Xeo
@EtiennedeMartel: Oh fuck yes
 
@Xeo Yeah, saw that earlier. So awesome.
 
Was pretty neat.
 
Hrm. That reminds me.
The US debt.
Now, if you cannot pay a debt off, you should not be gathering more, especially when it is evident that taking on more does not have potentially greater returns. Correct?
 
Are macros evil or are they acceptable in some cases?
 
12:30 AM
@Pawnguy7 The issue is that taking more on does potentially have greater returns. And nobody is entirely sure how much or when it won't anymore.
 
@Xeo I don't really like that he deviated from his usual approach by going full sampling
 
@Jefffrey They are generally evil, but acceptable in a very few approaches.
 
@Jefffrey pretty sure you said you were leaving twice now
 
I like the guest appearance of Cat though
 
@Pawnguy7 Can't sleep.
 
12:31 AM
Ah.
@DeadMG A bit of a gamble, isn't it?
 
@Pawnguy7 Not really.
the long and the short is that if the US stopped borrowing more money, the US economy would freeze or collapse in a very bad way.
 
Potential implies a possibility, not an assurance.
 
then the US would not be able to repay its existing debt and such things.
essentially, the entire place would go bankrupt.
 
@DeadMG Do you have an example ready or is it one of those "you'll see it when you need it" kind of thing?
 
and then the economy would stop operating, no new money, and really, that would be the very end of that.
 
12:32 AM
Byebye 'Murica
 
@Jefffrey Basically, only use it when there is no alternative.
 
@sehe Well the VGM back in the 80s and 90s were just short infinite loops of small sound clips so I don't see how he wouldn't be sampling most of it.
 
Assuming there is a return.
How far off would it be?
 
if the US goes bankrupt, it won't matter how much it can't pay back.
 
Joe
you fail to understand how debt is taken on firstly.
 
12:33 AM
@Pawnguy7 Usually a few years.
depends on what the money is spent on really.
 
@Joe who?
 
but really
the core issue is getting the economy growing again, and pulling out of Iraq/Afghanistan
 
Joe
@DeadMG that guy
 
a lot of the existing debt came from those wars.
and in addition
 
Joe
I mean that MG guy
 
12:34 AM
@Rapptz Well, this was the other extreme, at least. You know, it sucks a bit to have all these cam views of him... just playbacking shit that he never sang like this. (pah - peh - peeep - pehp / pah - peh - peeep - pehp / ... - no way)
 
Washington needs to stop trying to kill each other and raise some taxes.
once that's done, the US can pay the debt off at their leisure, essentially.
they're in a pretty special place- the reality is that investors don't really have anywhere else to go.
 
You say that this return might be a few years.
When do you start counting?
 
people will keep lending to them right up until they default.
 
I don't see how he couldn't make those sounds. Unless you mean the video deviation being off (which I can see).
 
@Pawnguy7 Well, whenever the money was borrowed- month by month, maybe.
assuming the government spent it relatively promptly.
 
12:36 AM
0
Q: How can I use a namespace as a macro parameter?

Falcon MomotI have a lot of functions which do identical things with identically-named objects in several different namespaces. I have made a macro which looks like this (apologies for not pasting the actual code; the law and whatnot): #define CTOR(T, NS) \ T::T(const space::type &thing): baseclass(thi...

Any thoughts?
 
@Jefffrey He should really examine why he needs so many duplicate functions, or possibly use a build script to generate it instead of a macro.
 
What I mean to say is, if there is a return here, wouldn't the level of debt go down, or at least, not go up?
Been steadily rising for 10+ years.
Or are you saying, events such as wars got in the way?
 
@Pawnguy7 Yep.
 
@DeadMG My first idea was that he is probably not using namespaces the right way if he has so many different namespaces, so related together. And also, the "20 lines" body should really be a function (if you can get rid of the namespace problem).
 
if you look at the national debt of the US, about 75% of it (or more, I think) funded the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, and Bush's tax cuts.
but for the last five years, the reality is, the economy was in such a rut they had little choice to but to keep borrowing (just like now).
it's just that the economy has been so bad, not much growth, nowhere near as much as was predicted (to be fair, predicted by as far as I can tell the majority of Western economists, not any specific faction).
 
12:42 AM
Any ideas on what caused the recession?
 
sure.
the plain and simple cause is that the governments did not correctly take care of the businesses (and themselves) in their nations.
 
Care to share?
 
I presented the solution as I'd make it :) Now, you'll have only one pass over the image files and only one pass over the input file. This is O(n+m) complexity. — sehe 2 mins ago
 
the banking industry is just one example, by the way, of industries in this position.
 
Applying complexity analysis to bash/sed scripts now ^
 
12:43 AM
the energy industry is another example.
the government can't permit them to fail, because it would essentially destroy the economy.
but they're also not government funded and don't pay for government protection.
 
Joe
@Pawnguy7 it's called a housing bubble
 
so when they make a mistake.
everything goes tits up.
another example is that corporations in general have become a lot more advanced at avoiding tax.
 
Joe
and DeadMG has been pretty much wrong about everything he is saying so far, but no need to argue with the tinfoil hat kinda guys.
 
because they can shuffle money between countries and stuff like that.
@Joe The housing bubble wasn't the cause of the recession.
fact is, businesses fail and markets crash all the time.
the real question is, "Why did a burst housing bubble bring down the entire rest of the economy?".
 
In your opinion, what would the average tax, as a percentage of income, be, ideally, for the average citizen?
 
Joe
12:45 AM
@DeadMG that is called CFDs
 
To... fix this.
 
the fix has nothing to do with citizen tax levels.
at least, not for the average citizen.
they've been doing their jobs, paying their taxes.
 
So your concern is for corporations?
 
yes.
essentially, they've been stealing from the government- some intentionally, some unintentionally.
and part of it is also the governments fault for not co-operating with foreign governments, blowing all their money on wars, stuff like that as well.
 
Perhaps I am foolish thinking most of these people are honest.
 
12:47 AM
ah, no.
 
I don't know why, it hangs there like an assumption, when I really have no clue.
 
the problem is that whether or not "most" people are honest is irrelevant.
because virtually all the money that we need is held by a very few, very rich people.
 
@Joe Lol. Do you own a mirror?
 
and secondly, because the economy is propped up by some core industries (e.g. banking, energy, health) which simply cannot fail, but weren't sufficiently regulated.
 
Joe
@sehe still defending your bro, bro?
 
12:48 AM
@Joe Nope. I'm questioning your own argumentation. That's pretty clear, no?
 
Speaking of regulations.
 
57 secs ago, by sehe
@Joe Lol. Do you own a mirror?
 
I get what they are attempting to do.
But... regulations are rather complex, aren't they?
 
yep.
 
Of the license sort?
 
12:49 AM
but the real problem isn't about regulations themselves.
a lot of regulations work just fine, give or take (although far from all, of course).
it's the people who are against regulations by their very nature.
 
Joe
@sehe don't worry, I'm not attacking your bro. He's got the problem and fix sorted
 
you have it a lot worse in the US.
people who are against raising taxes because ER MAH GERD THE GOVERNMENTS TAKING UR MONEYS.
instead of seeing the issue logically.
in fact, I think it's far from an inaccurate assessment to say that they are blocking the entire legal process.
and it's more than just their pathetic ideology
they lost the fucking election, they should get over it and let Obama do his thing like the people of their country voted for.
 
@Joe No doubt you know a lot about the subject, and I don't value DeadMG's opinion here as "truthy". But your own contribution don't make me instantly attuned to your expertise either
Points in case: ("It's called the housing bubble" - that's the media... They're usually part of the problem with understanding // "and DeadMG has been pretty much wrong about everything he is saying so far" - needs citation; you can't just claim that - that's your own tin-foil hat mentality shining through!)
 
@DeadMG that mentality has me a bit concerned.
 
@Pawnguy7 Right now, nobody can do anything.
 
12:52 AM
Joe is just upset his question got binned.
 
I don't think so. He's just too good at arguing. If it was just rage, it would resemble nothing
 
Yes.
 
@sehe Well, I'd welcome some extra participants.
 
But...
 
I was just leaving for bed :/
 
12:53 AM
fair enough then.
 
Let's imagine.
That we are some people voting for or against Hitler being a leader, at that time.
 
sure.
 
Imagine you were against it, and lost.
 
Joe
@sehe It is the housing bubble. Every economist with an average IQ has pointed it out. What is the need to reference it?
 
Do you just let them reign free?
Or are you still concerned?
 
12:54 AM
the Nazi people, by and large, did not vote for genocide.
 
Joe
@Rapptz yeha bro, i'm killer hurt. totally emo
 
Maybe Hitler just turned bad because of all the time travelers trying to kill him.
 
and if Obama tried to put genocide through the Senate, I'd expect people to vote against it.
 
@Joe I suggest getting that fixed ASAP.
 
but when you're talking about stuff that was part of his election promises?
 
12:55 AM
Um.
 
Joe
@Rapptz thanx for the opine bro. your concern means lot much
 
then yes, if I voted against Hitler and I lost, and he put forward a proposal that was part of his election promises, and I'd vote in favour.
 
np
 
obviously that's before the whole "Genocide" and "Dictatorship" thing.
although to be entirely fair to Hitler, he did not take power in a coup (although he did try, if I recall), it was all totally legal.
 
Joe
one mans genocide is another mans cleanse
 
12:56 AM
Just... let's say each of these issues is an individual Hitler election. An exaggeration for effect, we are not democratically picking genocide.
 
@Pawnguy7 ok.
 
Since it is perceived as bad, they, as concerned citizens, stand for what they think - incorrect or otherwise.
 
er, no.
they don't stand for what they think at all.
they stand for getting in the way of what the other guy thinks.
the Republicans can't make anything happen, they can only stop the Democrats from making things happen.
 
Quite possible. Politics are, well, politics.
 
if it was the Republicans saying "Well, actually, you have the President but we have the Senate and Congress so lol @ u we're gonna do what we want now"
I'd have sympathy.
because at least they would be doing something, trying some solution.
 
12:58 AM
If this situation were reversed.
 
I could sympathise with someone who was attempting to solve a problem, even if they were going about it totally wrong.
 
Does the blame fall the same way?
 
define reversed- describe the reversed situation.
just to be sure we're on the same page.
 
Democrats have the house, Republican president and senate.
 
yes, absolutely it does fall on the blocking minority party (Democrats in that hypothetical situation).
 
12:59 AM
But only if they are being political, not if they are doing what they think is best?
 
well
 

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