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Java lol: TIL that, despite EVERYTHING descended from 'Object', Java does not have virtual constructors. They traveled 1000km and failed to go the extra 1cm:).
 
sbi
@AlexM. This probably wouldn't be a good idea, if I may say so. They're probably too precious to be left alone with me.
 
@MartinJames lol "virtual constructors"
 
sbi
@TonyTheLion Oh, so this really is a thing? I'd be sad if a group of such good people – who happened to meet each other on SO for a reason, after all! – moves away from SO.
 
11:02 AM
@MartinJames Virtual constructors are really not worth it.
 
@sbi yes freednode #loungecpp
sad or not, its just another place we can go chat, and one where we have more control.
 
@milleniumbug I like virtual constructors. and yes, I override constructors frequently.
 
also isn't stuff.getClass().newInstance(whatever) a thing
 
I rarely use inheritance :<
 
sbi
@TonyTheLion Oh, I have heard the technical details of there being a place.
I just didn't know this has already progressed to the point where you are actually fleeing SO. This is so sad. Especially for Stackoverflow.
 
11:03 AM
if I do I have to think like
|
|
|
vs | | |
best explanation 2015
 
also
I'm really not sure what the fuck.
if you have an interface, then by definition the object implementing it is already constructed.
what would a virtual constructor even do.
 
@Puppy lol
 
did you guys play rollercoaster tycoon (any I think)
 
@AlexM. YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
Roller Coast Tycoon 3 best tycoon
 
I tried RCT 3 and I found the ability to try out your rides in first person to be really fun
 
11:06 AM
@sbi Except for ScottW, who got banned for a year after impersonating a mod, currently no one is really leaving that I know of. Though it has been discussed a few times, especially after drama related events.
 
Scott got banned for a year?
 
sbi
I didn't know either.
 
a year? wow
 
@Puppy Yes and now his account is deleted upon his request
 
why would he do that
 
11:08 AM
6 mins ago, by milleniumbug
@MartinJames lol "virtual constructors"
 
sbi
@TonyTheLion Well, if some other place really became something where the Loungers really meet and chat, then you currently are in the process of leaving, whether you have decided this actively or not. And this greatly saddens me.
 
I didn't mean to make you sad on a Sunday morning.
 
@sbi I'm still of the opinion that this whole thing will blow over.
 
how many people are active on the irc thing?
 
Before this debacle, it was only really me, cat, cosh and cicada
but now quite a few others, seem to come in quite a bit
 
11:12 AM
lemme see if I can find a client, I haven't used these irc shenanigans before
actually I did back in elementary, but all I knew about it was that everyone of my friends were using mIRC to log in to this room which had a trivia bot on
so I followed
 
sbi
@Puppy Look, there have been many such problems, and they all have, indeed, blown over. But in a sense, they haven't. Every time this happens, this room's inhabitants get a bit more cynically frustrated about the meta police, about this Merkan bigotry, about this insensitive slapping of users who have not broken any rules, except those in the head of some bigots. So every such incident, no matter how stupid and temporarily, does push off the users here a bit more.
@TonyTheLion Again, I consider this very sad, because I think we met here because there was something we had in common that we found here, and won't find elsewhere.
 
I for one welcome the irc room idea
at the end of the day here our actions have effect on the whole site, so it's only natural that the whole site would react
 
sbi
Yeah, but this doesn't mean they have to react badly.
 
Good Mystcial Morning
 
@sbi I understand that, don't know what to say really.
 
sbi
11:18 AM
I mean, there was some bad stuff coming out of this room, where I agree that it shouldn't have happened. But many (not some of the worst) incidents were incited by pure stupidity and bigotry of the meta crowd.
@TonyTheLion Neither do I, TBH.
 
Morning
 
Morning
 
haha I joined irc :D I'm such a 90s kid
 
sbi
Maybe this is a good moment to link to this.
 
11:20 AM
do we have chat logs on irc?
 
sbi
@AlexM. I remember when we Usenet users shook our heads about that new thing called IRC. I feel old now.
 
@AlexM. in the room title
 
sweet, thx
 
sbi
Lemme quickly go through @balpha's list:
> Signs of appropriate rooms
> - The discussion generally (not necessarily exclusively) evolves around topics that are relevant to Stack Overflow. This doesn't mean it has to be about programming; it may also be about technology in general, about the programming community at large, or about Stack Overflow itself.
I think this is a Check, even if a cautious one.
> - The population of the room contains many active Stack Overflow users who use the chat as what it was designed to be – a Third Place –, not as their primary way of interacting with Stack Overflow.
CHECK
 
@sbi The room is appropriate.
You don't need to go over the list.
 
sbi
11:23 AM
> - The room is welcoming to new users, but critical (in a helpful and guiding way, if possible) of dumping-my-problem-into-the-room drive-by chatters.
Given the influx of help vampires and idiots such a highly active room brings with it, I think the room isn't as bad as its reputation suggests. So a Check, although with some reservation.
 
Oh it's Madara.
 
sbi
@sbi I believe chatrooms on SO should need to stay on topic, and I believe that a deletion of the C++ chatroom and banning of the worst offenders from chatting is in order. If a new one is created, it should be with new chatroom owners, this room is long beyond saving, imo. — Magisch 2 days ago
> - There's a (not necessarily outspoken, more implicitly present) agreement among the inhabitants regarding the question "What is this room about?", and even when the conversation drifts off for a while, it tends to automatically return to somewhere around this topic.
CHECK
 
I like to consider the meta question a drunken mistake.
 
sbi
> - The real-world equivalent of the room would be a user group meeting.
 
Because every post on there is dumb.
From both sides.
 
sbi
11:24 AM
CHECK
> Signs of inappropriate rooms
 
@Rapptz I think the discussion is good to have. But it happened much much to close to the original incident to be helpful or thoughtful in any way.
 
yawn
 
sbi
> - The room's given topic (and thus its definition) already hints at the fact that people explicitly not want to talk about stuff that would be considered SO-related.
I think we can easily rule this out.
 
@MadaraUchiha It was never going to end well.
 
Oh gosh, can we move on at some point?
 
11:25 AM
Yeah I wanna move on too.
 
Same o/
 
sbi
> - The room is mainly used by people who just so managed to get 20 rep on SO in order to be able to chat, and then started chatting and hardly contribute to the site anymore.
Well, I think at any time, this room's most active ten users have a couple 100k among them.
 
why so serious?
 
sbi
> - The room generates conversation in a tone that cannot by any stretch of imagination be considered "professional". This may e.g. be A/S/L types of conversation, bullying, back-and-forth accusations, etc.
While I know that some of the meta crowd will strongly disagree, my feeling is the examples given by this criterion apply to MSO more then to us.
 
THEY ARE NOT SHUTTING US DOWN, CAN WE MOVE ON NOW?
 
11:26 AM
@sbi The problem isn't the appropriateness of the toom.
 
I don't know what I can say anymore though
Sexist comments lead to a ban and anti sexist comments lead to a ban too
 
Meta is law m8
 
The problem is that sometimes, (and more often than most other places), someone (and that can be anyone) crosses the line.
 
I'll just talk about facts then
 
@user703016 try to be asexual
 
11:27 AM
And then when moderators step in, they're viewed as enemies.
 
Did you know that the human body has the same water concentration as a cucumber??
So essentially we're cucumbers that create drama
 
@user703016 [citation-needed]
 
I wouldn't have as much of a problem with moderators if they wouldn't be so stubborn.
You guys come into a room full of stubborn people while being stubborn. Not a good mix.
 
@TonyTheLion m8 do you actually think i'd say something real
 
@Rapptz they could say the same of us though
 
sbi
11:28 AM
@chmod666telkitty Quite a few years ago, I put a lot of effort into creating a room culture here that kept attracting a lot of rather great users. We moderated rather vigorously when there weren't even tools for room owners to do so. We came up with our own set of rules for the room. (Where do you think this regular welcome message comes from?) We set up rules governing how and why owners are chosen.
I'd really, really hate seeing this all going to waste because a few idiots on meta cringe when someone uses "fuck".
 
@TonyTheLion See the next message.
Heh.
 
Cucumbers are usually more than 90% water
 
@user703016 not really, but I thought I'd go along
 
sbi
@MadaraUchiha This is not a consensus at all.
 
@sbi That's my personal opinion.
 
sbi
11:29 AM
@MadaraUchiha Well, what states do you where the police is seen as enemies, and this is not the police's fault?
 
has anyone here tried cucumber juice
 
That's what I view as the problem. Any room has problematic users, and drive by trolls. The problem here is that the users here for some reason work against the mods, and not with
 
@user703016 how can water be real if our bodies aren't real?!
 
sbi
@MadaraUchiha Yes, and I happen to disagree.
 
@sbi There's never one side that's at fault.
And you know it.
It's never black and white, there's never a good side and an evil side.
 
11:30 AM
@sbi You see, there is a difference between "Being a C++ help forum" and "Discussing C++" You seem eager to twist what ever I say into something different, as for the matter of sex, if you can't see WHY it can be seen as inappropriate to discuss it on a programming site, well, there's not much I can do then. — Epodax 2 days ago
lol
 
sbi
@MadaraUchiha Having grown up east of the Iron Curtain, I can tell you that you just blurted out with what's an embarrassing case show of ignorance.
 
@MadaraUchiha Are you trying to justify ISIS
 
@MadaraUchiha I think this has historical reasons, and anyone that's been around quite a few years will understand that. The Tina incident, is one example which caused a lot of friction between some regulars here and meta.
 
Classic "if you can't see it then you are beyond repair" arguments
 
sbi
@user703016 Will you stupid troll get off this room??
 
11:31 AM
no
 
It's Cicada.
sbi please.
Cicada pls
 
@TonyTheLion Right
 
We've had a lot of issues with meta.
 
@sbi personally I suspect that the staff want as much drama as this room does - that is they don't want any either. But this room seems to not be able to let things go. If you just move on, then they will too, given the room stay as 'gracious' as the recent 3-4 days.
 
@MadaraUchiha and unfortunately every subsequent incident we had that involved meta, has seemingly only added to the friction.
 
11:32 AM
@Rapptz You have a tendency to antagonize, I'm not going to lie.
 
Which is probably why the mods don't like us and like to funpost about this room being evil.
 
And the bad history between the two sides doesn't make it better.
 
sbi
@Rapptz I don't care who does this (though I suspected him). I had looked at the guy's chat history a few minutes ago. It's all shit. (And, please, do not take this personal. I have had beers with him, and I know he can do much better.)
 
@MadaraUchiha Antagonize what?
 
But you guys are moderators :/ it's your job to defuse the friction you know
4
 
sbi
11:33 AM
^This!
 
@Rapptz From what I observed in the past interaction (during heated times)
 
@user703016 this is a good and valid point
 
That's not answering the question.
 
ITT mods are counter-frictionists
 
sbi
@MadaraUchiha I can give this back to you right away.
 
11:34 AM
The users in the room (and I'm using a generalization here because nearly every user present was at fault in this) attempted to bait me, disputed my claims, very close to trolling me, no matter what I said or which side I took.
This happens on meta as well.
 
@MadaraUchiha The thing is, some users in this room feel the same way about meta and/or the moderators.
 
wow, hexchat only uses 7 megs of ram
 
You funpost, you get funposted back.
 
@TonyTheLion I realize.
Which is why I aim to change that, if only a little.
 
Though I don't troll you.
So I don't like the accusation.
 
11:35 AM
Jon started and we're intending to continue. My aim is that the users of this room (and of any room) see moderators as helpers, not as enemies.
 
actually nvm, foobar2k uses 6
#notimpressedanymore
 
@sbi I think you've just forgotten my style but it's OK
 
@AlexM. It's mainly text.
 
And tbh I've seriously toned down over the years
 
I like my old 2007 shitposts too.
I think 2011 was my peak.
 
11:37 AM
@Rapptz Drive by morons or trolls are fairly easy to handle, and room owners generally do a good job at it (and even call mods for help)
 
sbi
@MadaraUchiha And this wasn't the case initially, I can tell you that. In fact, a mod yanked this room out of the hands of some guys who had created it and left, and gave it into those of a few C++ tag users. Can you imagine we disliked mods back then?
 
The real problems is when the room regulars themselves cross the line at some point. This happened at least once in every room.
 
@MadaraUchiha I don't see you or any mod as an enemy, but I find wielding ban hammers like was done the other day a rather extreme and violent measure to deal with an already delicate situation. It could have been handled without so much brute force, because brute force tends to beget brute force.
 
exactly
 
@MadaraUchiha The real problem is interpretation of communication and having black and white arguments about it with extreme actions including banning.
 
sbi
11:39 AM
@user703016 Again: I had looked at your profile. It's all shit, and its only purpose is to troll. And so were most of the recent messages your profile showed. What am I to say? That you've been a valuable member f the community this morning??
 
@Jefery See? This. This is what I'm talking about.
 
2 messages moved to bin
 
lol
 
sbi
@Rapptz Thanks!
 
We are trying to have a sensible discussion here
 
11:40 AM
@sbi I think you're missing a lot of context
 
Please don't provoke anyone
 
sbi
@user703016 Shrug.
 
@MadaraUchiha What's wrong with disputing your claims?
 
@Rapptz If only you (or other room owners) did that when the whole drama fiasco happened, I'm sure everything would have gone a lot more pleasantly.
 
Lol.
 
11:41 AM
Are your claims in some way better than our claims for some reason, or ...?
 
Whether the initial suspension was justified or not isn't even relevant here. Once you start antagonizing the mods that enter and try to help the situation out (which is what I initially came here to do), there's absolutely no benefit in store for any of the sides.
 
His claims are no better or worse than ours
 
sbi
@MadaraUchiha We have seen @Shog disowning room owners who weren't even there when something bad happened for not having done something.
 
@sbi Shog cleared the list.
The entire list, except for a few he trusted.
 
sbi
@MadaraUchiha I believe this is what i said.
 
11:42 AM
Yes, that is correct.
 
sbi
@MadaraUchiha LOL! He trusted me!
 
I am getting this very strong feeling of déjà vu for some reason
 
@sbi Is there a reason he shouldn't have?
 
And of course no answer is given. Why am I even bothering.
 
@user703016 This happens yearly?
 
11:43 AM
@Jefery No, my claims are not better than your claims.
But remember that I am one, and you are thirty.
And being lynched over every sentence makes it absolutely impossible to form any sort of discussion.
 
@MadaraUchiha bukkake
 
Mods are elected to follow rules. But if you were a community managers or Jeff Atwoods, then you follow a different set of rules. Because Jeff is secretly obsessed with elite trolls. The first few CMs he has appointed are also fans of elite trolls. So if you are a troll, try to be one of the best, this way, you will be given special consideration.
 
@user703016 That's another way of putting it.
 
@sbi I have to be confused by "user703016 Will you stupid troll get off this room??" When we gave that user two days off to avoid fueling the remains of a fire - there was out-roar (bad/evil mods) - but right now that almost sounds like you'd rather the user not be here...? Talk about confusing :)
 
I mean, in general, if you are an elite troll, you will end up with a lot of followers. Some of them even try to get your phone number and send you many messages. I know this from experience (brb, deleting unwanted messages).
 
11:44 AM
@JonClements By the way, next time you do that, I'd appreciate a warning before and/or an explanation afterwards.
 
sbi
@MadaraUchiha Well, I mostly disagree with the meta crowd's view of this room. I was absent. I have been mostly absent for years. He setup an idiot as co-owner who never did anything good here in my eyes. need more?
 
It's quite difficult to stay put and enjoy a ban when no reason has been given for it
 
oh yea, LRiO got made an owner, IIRC
 
@sbi Shog's move was the response of the "current" administration failing to meet his expectations.
 
sbi
@JonClements Oh god, did we just ruffle your prejudiced feathers about this room a bit? I am so sorry not to comply with your ideas of how bad we are.
 
11:45 AM
@MadaraUchiha Did you perhaps stopped to think that you did something wrong back there and you have greater responsibilities for your mistakes than we do?
 
Shog is not overly familiar with the room and isn't here on a daily basis
 
sbi
@MadaraUchiha He is.
 
Neither are you.
 
It's irrelevant.
The owners got added back eventually.
Not right after or anything.
 
@Rapptz Right.
@Jefery That is also true. That will not stop me from intervening if I feel the need to.
My aim is to work with the regulars and room owners to ensure everyone enjoy and have a productive time in this room.
If the carrot won't work, moderators have a large stick.
 
11:46 AM
That's a blank statement to me.
 
And that's not my personal opinion anymore.
 
` `
 
That's like saying "I want world peace".
 
fail
 
Sigh.
 
11:47 AM
@Jefery what is your solution?
 
@MadaraUchiha Is that a threat?
 
@MadaraUchiha carrots? where?
 
Can you stop baiting Jefery.
 
@MadaraUchiha For what? Back then or now?
 
did I miss all the goodie goodies?
 
11:48 AM
The problem is as you perceive it. You have unlimited powers of mod/admin.
What do you do to make things better?
 
define better
 
Again: back then or now?
 
@Rapptz I'm not baiting him. I'm genuinely interested, because clearly he doesn't agree with my approach.
 
@MadaraUchiha You start by working on your human skills rather than using the tools at your disposal
 
@Jefery Both.
 
11:48 AM
@MadaraUchiha Not you. I meant he's baiting you.
It's annoying.
 
Now there's noting you can do other than apologize.
 
@Rapptz Commas, they're important :P
 
sbi
@Rapptz No, they did not "get added back". I (who, remember, hadn't been here much in years by that time), had to sacrifice half a day I had planned to spend digging through my garden to read up on the mess, got to grips with the situation, fight off the idiot Shog had setup, smack everybody's had, and put back into charge who I thought should be – while LRiO shut wanked off and Jerry didn't dare to touch anything for fear of getting banned himself as well.
This did not all just happen automatically, you know.
 
@Rapptz Baiting him into what? What are you even talking about?
 
I can see the ambiguity I guess.
@sbi iirc Mysticial helped diffuse most of the situation as well.
 
11:50 AM
defuse*
 
@Jefery Your discussion style comes across as somewhat aggressive.
 
sbi
@Rapptz If so, he certainly wasn't around that morning to help do all that.
 
@user703016 Nah.
 
@MadaraUchiha Back then the mod that banned Jerry's message could have stopped for a second, realized that if so many people were against that action maybe he could have made something wrong. He could have reread the message and realized there was nothing wrong with it, unban Jerry and apologize to the room.
 
I like mine better.
 
11:51 AM
@TonyTheLion Sorry if I'm invested in this, I guess.
 
sbi
@MadaraUchiha No, this is not true for the majority of all incidents that arose from the police storming in here. The problem is that various members of the meta crowd define "the line" depending on whatever is their current state of mind, and then smack the heads of everybody who is surprised because they can't find anything in the rules backing the mods up.
 
@sbi I don't think "bad" at all - just pointed out mixed messages
 
@Jefery While I get your perspective the wording here is incredibly faulty.
 
@Jefery You can be invested in it, and I appreciate your effort, but if you can just try not to sound so aggressive. :) <3
 
also, I need to start on finishing my paperwork or I will be hit on by a huge penalty ...
 
11:52 AM
Moderators have to do something that causes people to be upset.
It's just how the job is.
You can't please everyone.
 
@TonyTheLion But I am. I'm trying really hard not to show it.
 
Granted, if people are upset over the action they should listen and try to understand why they're upset rather than being stubborn and maybe try to change their action by reverting it or not.
 
sbi
@JonClements As I said further up, we have been governing this place before you even gave the meager tools for that into the hands of the owners they have now. And I have mostly done so by telling people what I think, rather than trying to get them banned. (So I did some of the latter, of course, over the years.)
 
@Rapptz So many highly ranked (room owners) people upset? That's a red flag.
 
@Jefery <3
 
11:53 AM
@Jefery Not necessarily.
I've seen many cases where high ranking, room owner regulars were all in the wrong.
 
No no, it's a red flag necessarily. It doesn't necessarily mean that it's a bad action.
 
Rushing to defend a friend
 
sbi
@Jefery Why don't you try to channel it into something useful then? What you're doing is trying to troll the mods, which isn't useful at all.
 
But it should make you think.
@sbi I'm not trolling anyone. I'm discussing something I care about.
 
sbi
@MadaraUchiha So what happened to their rooms?
 
11:54 AM
@sbi Which works - what doesn't work is when trying to have a civil conversation - letting people intervene throwing petrol around the room doesn't help. What doesn't help either is that if no one tells the person to shut up from the RO team - it's easy to see it as you're willing for it to go on - if mods handle it - it looks like we're throwing our weight around... so I'm sure that's something we both want to avoid in the future
 
How is everything trolling these days.
 
@sbi Note that I said we weren't added back immediately after. There's a lot of context there missing. Think of it as a timeskip.
 
@sbi They reformed.
 
Something you don't like? That's trolling!
 
This happened twice in the PHP room, and once in the JavaScript room
 
sbi
11:54 AM
@Jefery I am not accusing you of wanting to. I am only saying how you come across.
 
@JonClements "Throwing petrol in the room". Seriously? All my messages were fairly innocuous.
 
In both, the owner list was refreshed.
 
You are overly sensitive.
 
1 min ago, by Jefery
No no, it's a red flag necessarily. It doesn't necessarily mean that it's a bad action.
 
It seems I got banned exactly for this: "women live longer to make up for the time spent under the dominance of men". Seriously?
I mean, seriously???
 
Ell
11:56 AM
(Praise be to Allah)
 
PBUH
 
wom*n
 
Please don't fuel any fires, thanks :)
 
I've brought it up before.
Lemme find it.
 
11:56 AM
(this conversation will go no where, let's stop wasting time now) can we go back to happier topics? I mean, no one comes here to be upset
 
Sure, but please don't accuse me of throwing petrol.
 
Well we can have a civilized discussion.
 
You could just go and say "user2349238402, please stop your trolling" like a civilized person and all would be fine
If there's anyone throwing petrol - it's not me.
 
Nah too lazy to search more.
 
You know, admitting you were wrong is not a sign of weakness for a moderator. It's a sign of strength. Because next time you take a position people will know that you are not just defending it for the sake of appearing to be always right.
 
sbi
11:58 AM
@JonClements Well, if you manage to offend the owners, how are you expecting them to support you banning someone for posting something which was considered wrong even though nobody of the meta police seems to be able to explain how? And, really, this is not the first time, and most people in this room feel they have been wronged terribly by the police, so all it takes by now is small offenses. (Not that I am saying this was a small one. This was handled in probably the worst possible manner.)
 
@Jefery I admitted to a couple of things I did wrong.
 
I'm not talking about you.
 
I did an omelette wrong the other day
 
Freezing the room and suspending CatPlusPlus for 30 minutes are not two of them.
 
Can you believe that
 
11:59 AM
@MadaraUchiha No one cared about both of those. FYI
 
Ell
@user703016 I can
 
@Rapptz I'm aware.
 
I actually cared.
 
@Jefery Freezing the room was a result of
16 mins ago, by Madara Uchiha
But remember that I am one, and you are thirty.
 
@user703016 same as Ell
 
11:59 AM
And remember that you're a mod, and we're not.
 
sbi
@chmod666telkitty Yeah, you go off to happier topics and come back here when the grown-ups are done with their serious talking. (I mean, we are only trying to save the room from getting wiped out, you know.)
 

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