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8:00 PM
@KendallFrey does that mean something to a Canadian? I don't know anything about the sports you syrup-drinkers play
 
user47589
thank <INSERT DEITY> its friday
 
user5981182
hahaha
 
@mikeTheLiar I already know too many Caps fans in chat (<3 @SterlingArcher)
 
!!bees
 
right
 
left
 
right
b
a
 
user5981182
Please center your joystick and press Enter
 
down right left a b b a
 
8:03 PM
ABBA?
 
I wonder if my joystick still works ok
I might need it
 
user47589
go home before playing with your joystick.
 
agreed
 
There is always lunch
 
Time is an illusion.
 
user47589
8:06 PM
that's what that kid said about spoons, and boy was he wrong
 
We merely live in an instance of the game SimUniverse 3016
 
user47589
I believe we exist in a simulated universe.
 
This body. This body holding me. Be my reminder here that I am not alone in
This body, this body holding me, feeling eternal
All this pain is an illusion.
 
We're some 10-year-old kid's trainwreck of a Civ MMXV session
 
If the big bang is a cyclical event, what started the cycle? What is before time = 0?
 
user47589
8:10 PM
its not cyclical.
 
@TravisJ lasagna
 
user47589
the universe's expansion is speeding up, not slowing down.
 
doesn't mean the universe isn't cyclical
just means the big crunch isn't part of the cycle
 
@Amy - Expansion doesn't negate cyclical.
 
user47589
there's no evidence to suggest its cyclical.
 
8:13 PM
there's no evidence to suggest it's not
 
user47589
I choose to believe in things for which there is evidence.
 
@Amy - Sorry but you are incorrect.
There is evidence.
 
user47589
Please explain.
 
prior to the Big Bang, there was a contracting universe with space-time geometry that otherwise is similar to that of our current expanding universe
 
It seems it is easier for Windows explorer to sort by name than by date created? Why?
 
8:16 PM
Calculations are not 'evidence'
 
user47589
We don't have a unified quantum theory of gravity though.
 
The predictions of a model form a hypothesis, not the evidence to support that hypothesis
 
@Amy I understand some of those words.
 
There is evidence that matter existed before the big bang.
 
Are gravity "waves" quantized?
 
8:17 PM
@TravisJ I don't believe you.
 
user47589
We can use General Relativity equations to wind time back to 10^-32 seconds after the Big Bang, but we cannot infer anything further back than that. We lack the proper equations.
 
The conclusions drawn from that existence compose sets of theory, but that doesn't negate the existence.
 
@kush I'm not aware of any evidence for quantization of gravity. Quantum gravity is beyond my level of knowledge, but my impression is that it hasn't gotten very far
 
user47589
PBS Space Time's latest videos are about the Big Bang and its problems.
 
@TomW - So you are arguing that matter can be made from nothing then.
 
user47589
8:19 PM
I like the idea that black holes create new universes, and our universe was made in such a manner.
 
@TravisJ No. 'Nothing' is a vague concept anyway, but I'm asking you to present evidence to support your statement
 
@TomW but we know for a fact that gravity exists between subatomic particles?
Sorry, I am not very knowledgeable so I ask basic questions
 
user47589
All forms of energy warp space-time.
 
@TomW - I was under the impression this was common knowledge. So you do not believe the "big bounce" theory?
It is rather widely accepted in the scientific community.
 
Really?
 
user47589
8:22 PM
I certainly don't believe in the Big Bounce.
 
In the beginning the Universe was created.
 
user47589
It isn't anymore, @TravisJ
 
I almost never hear it seriously discussed
 
@kush yes, gravity is thought to operate in the same way on elementary particles as it does on macroscopic objects, but the best model so far is general relativity and that isn't quantised
 
user47589
Big Bounce used to be widely accepted, but now it isn't.
 
8:22 PM
@Amy - [citation needed]
 
Due to accelerating expansion, we're pretty sure our universe won't bounce
 
@kush
 
@TravisJ 'big bounce' is an interpretation of one of the possible topologies of the universe, it doesn't make testable predictions, so isn't a theory.
 
If you fire a bullet into the sky, it will look like it is accelerating for a long time.
 
you said you're a master's student at CUNY?
 
8:23 PM
@KalaJ hello
@KalaJ si senor
 
When do you graduate?
 
never :( maybe december 2017
I want to work and go to school part time
 
lol nevermind
Do you have android experience?
My company is hiring
 
@KalaJ yes a little
 
Do you have an android project to show?
 
8:25 PM
@TravisJ not accelerating away from you
that's a terrible analogy
 
@KalaJ it is pretty basic :(
 
user47589
fire a bullet up? it will accelerate up until it leaves the gun, then will immediately accelerate back toward the earth at 1G.
 
What is it about? @kush
 
Yes. It is a simple analogy. Would you prefer a balloon popping or an underwater air bubble?
 
if you can make your point, sure
 
8:27 PM
@KalaJ I want to make an app to log commute but I've just started working on it.
 
The point is that acceleration does not negate the presence of deceleration.
 
user47589
what does that even mean
 
uhm yeah
by definition it does
 
user47589
maybe you guys shouldn't exchange phone numbers in a public chat room that's logged for posterity?
 
Making the point that because the universe is expanding at an accelerating rate then it cannot collapse or contract is the same as saying that because acceleration exists deceleration cannot.
 
8:29 PM
What I think you're saying is that the fact that expansion is accelerating now doesn't prove that it will always be accelerating. However you'd have to hypothesise an as-yet unpredicted force to make that happen
 
but there's no evidence it will ever stop accelerating
 
@Amy yes
 
But then there is no model for the inflationary force either, as far as I am aware.
 
user47589
Yeah, we don't know what Dark Energy is.
 
We do know it happens though
 
8:29 PM
also kush my company doesn't sponsor work visas if you need one (not sure if that applies to you but heads up)
 
user47589
I hope the nature of Dark Energy is pinned down in my lifetime.
 
@KalaJ that's fine (:
 
Tensile strength perhaps? Maybe a spring is a good analogy of that.
 
user47589
Science excites me.
 
Okay, I missed your phone number but we can take it off this chat for more discussion. It's likely the role will be Xamarin/C#
for Android and iOS but I'll let you know when I get more details on Monday
 
8:31 PM
@Amy I'd really like a GUT
 
@KendallFrey carry on with those panini and you'll have one soon enough
 
user47589
if you don't have a GUT, you should go to the emergency room immediately
 
@KalaJ I don't have experience Xamarin but I'm sure I can pick it up. Thanks :D
@KendallFrey you can have mine
 
user47589
I wish I had gone into physics in college.
 
Either way, if the big bang or bounce are not theoretically stable, there is still the general idea of time which was the original point of this. Perhaps there are two facets, 1: What was before time 0, and 2: Is it possible for time to be negatively infinite and why?
 
8:32 PM
I'm still undecided about whether I'd rather get a degree in physics or math
I mean probably I'll get neither
 
physics requires you to do all the work of a math degree at lower levels.
 
Protip: lab work is boring as shit, avoid avoid avoid
 
@TravisJ I thought the consensus was we can't tell what happened before the big bang
 
I minored in both math and physics.
 
8:33 PM
@TravisJ A better question would be what was before T+10^-32?
 
user47589
Until we have a unified theory that bridges GR and QFT, we cannot guess what happened in the universe before T = 10^-32 seconds
 
I think going back to college for any reason after you're already a professional is a waste of time
 
We don't even know it was T+10^-32
 
user47589
right
 
@KendallFrey what is this magic number and where did it come from?
 
8:34 PM
It's all a big mess and nobody has a clue. Ditch it and do a complete rewrite
 
it's just that GR would end that amount before
 
@kush It's how early in the universe GR is relevant/useful
 
@KendallFrey - If the big bang theory or set of outlooks is incorrect, then that would mean that at t+10^-32 there wouldn't be much difference as matter is spread across universes.
 
I'll watch the video thanks
 
8:35 PM
@TravisJ what do you mean?
 
@KendallFrey - The idea of the universe getting denser as time goes back. If matter however was being transferred through black holes as suggested through the alternate theory of the big bang ("rainbow gravity" and parallel universes) then it would not be denser it would have been balanced through the connections.
 
user47589
I agree with what travis just said.
 
@TravisJ GR is the dominant theory at universal scales, and it points backwards to everything being at a single point. Any other hypothesis would require some serious tweaking.
 
@KendallFrey - That tweaking is suggested by Higgs Boson and the whole "gravity wave" thing.
 
what?
 
user47589
8:39 PM
I dont agree with what travis just said.
 
the Higgs mechanism is completely unrelated, and standard GR already predicts gravitational waves
 
user47589
the whole gravity wave thing was just further confirmation of GR.
 
user47589
It didn't add to our understanding of anything.
 
It is related. If the Higgs were correct, then that would mean black holes can transfer matter.
 
the fuck are you smoking
 
8:41 PM
@TravisJ I'm not familiar with that one. Says who?
 
user47589
I need a citation for that assertion. The only way I'm aware of for black holes to lose mass is Hawking Radiation
 
citation fucking needed
 
The Telegraph, huh
 
user5981182
8:41 PM
Closed as duplicate from Reddit
 
:P
 
user47589
That article uses a lot of "could prove"
 
Hi
 
All I said was suggested
 
user47589
hello @Manulaiko
 
8:42 PM
@SteveHémond reminds me of Articles for Deletion (AfD) on Wikipedia
 
I see no connection to the Higgs other than that it's mentioned in the article
 
user5981182
ahaha exactly
 
Screw wordy description, show me the math(s)
*Will not understand the math(s)*
 
I call them 'full stack overflow developers' because they only copy and paste stack overflow answers. @codepo8 #smashingconf
 
> Normally, when people think of the multiverse, they think of the many-worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics, where every possibility is actualised.
 
8:44 PM
I'm a full stack developer from today
 
no, not actually
That's just the media running with a "crazy science" story with no evidence
Also, still no idea where Higgs comes into it
 
user47589
^
 
ohhhhhhh i think i'm done with these 200000000 unit/integration tests
my brain hurts
 
@SteveG I prescribe 11mg of rebecca
 
user5981182
Gotta have my bowl, Gotta have cereal
 
8:46 PM
oh i'll take the whole dose of her
 
user5981182
I see my friends
 
kickin in the front seat
 
user5981182
fun fun fun
 
user5981182
rektbecca
 
2PM getting out of my bed
 
8:48 PM
it is friday
 
i see you hanging out of the passenger side of your best friends ride, tryin to holla at me
 
!!drink
 
@TomW That didn't make much sense. Use the !!/help command to learn more.
 
!!/help
 
Why would you use FormGroupFor html helper?
 
8:48 PM
@TomW Information on interacting with me can be found at this page
 
@SteveG oh god destiny's child
 
I haven't seen it before until today
 
user47589
Caprica doesn't drink, @TomW
 
user5981182
> give porridge to manannan
 
I usually use TextBoxFor
 
8:49 PM
@Kush lol is that who it is? i thought it was like, TLC or something
hands Tom a glass of whiskey
 
oh it is tlc
man
 
s/l/h/g
 
lol
 
I sucked at that identify the music game
that was only three years ago
 
In mathematics, the special unitary group of degree n, denoted SU(n), is the Lie group of n×n unitary matrices with determinant 1 (i.e., real-valued determinant, not complex as for general unitary matrices). The group operation is that of matrix multiplication. The special unitary group is a subgroup of the unitary group U(n), consisting of all n×n unitary matrices. As a compact classical group, U(n) is the group that preserves the standard inner product on Cn. It is itself a subgroup of the general linear group, SU(n) ⊂ U(n) ⊂ GL(n, C). The SU(n) groups find wide application in the Standard Model...
 
user47589
8:51 PM
what
 
if you simplify that, it simplifies down to 42
 
Oh crap, now you're asking. SU(2) is...electroweak symmetry, I think?
 
@TomW - Nice
In the Standard Model, the Higgs particle is a boson with no spin, electric charge, or colour charge. It is also very unstable, decaying into other particles almost immediately
I couldn't find a good composite of all of this aside from wiki though
Some of their reference citation isn't repeated in the article, it seems like it is a lot of information
 
We did do gauge invariance and why it implies fields, but the math was...bad
Non-rigorous, that is
 
8:54 PM
i don't remember much of the math i learned in college, i wish i could have been able to apply it to real life situations, then i could remember it better
but just memorizing algorithms, with no real usable purpose to me, didn't work out so well
 
I am in the same boat. I would probably not pass a majority of the upper division math tests if given today.
Would definitely need a refresher course or something.
 
yeah same here
and i liked calc, just didn't know how to do anything with it, in real life, just knew how to solve equations they gave me
 
I wish I properly knew calc
 
We got as far as proving that electrons exchange photons I think, that's about as simple as it gets in the standard model
 
I know enough to get by though
 
8:56 PM
@TomW see! that sounds awesome! I've never taken a physics class
 
I got really sidetracked by electrons. Fascinating little things.
 
@SteveG it's hard. Especially when the professor is lazy with his mathematical formalism
MSc level theory class, that is
 
user47589
I've forgotten most of my calculus.
 
You can see where they are, but not determine their vector. Or, you can know their vector, but not be able to determine where they are.
 
oh i can't imagine
everybody says it's hard, but in all honesty, the only things i like are challenges, i get bored easily
 
8:58 PM
@SteveG If you're actually interested I'd start with why you're doing it, look up Noether's Theorem
If you have literally no fucking idea what that's going on about, which I didn't without being walked through it, you're SOL
 
lol, i didnt even take differential equations, so the first sentence makes me think i'm clueless
 
You start with the properties of (groups, I think?) and end up with why charge exists, for example
 
yeah that sounds awesome
 
@SteveG OK so this will take you about six years, or it did me, anyway
 
Oo
 
9:00 PM
@TravisJ you didn't specify which vector
 
Maybe it was just my particular teacher, but I remember being confused by abstract algebra
I thought computer science theory proofs were both more rigorous and understandable
 
@MikeAsdf I'd imagine that's everyone. However in my case they didn't even really deal with why abstract algebra is something that should be considered, they just launch into special cases with no context
 
@KendallFrey - Euclidean
 
what
 
In mathematics, physics, and engineering, a Euclidean vector (sometimes called a geometric or spatial vector, or—as here—simply a vector) is a geometric object that has magnitude (or length) and direction and can be added to other vectors according to vector algebra. A Euclidean vector is frequently represented by a line segment with a definite direction, or graphically as an arrow, connecting an initial point A with a terminal point B, and denoted by A vector is what is needed to "carry" the point A to the point B; the Latin word vector means "carrier". It was first used by 18th century astronomers...
 
9:02 PM
that's... not what I meant
 
You didn't specify what you meant.
 
An electron does not have "a vector"
 
@MikeAsdf - The pumping lemma was a pain =/
 
it has lots
 
@KendallFrey - Well that is part of the whole issue with them. At an instant, if you measured an electron did it actually pass through that area? Yes. At what vector? Your answer is that it instantaneously has many vectors at the same time?
 
9:04 PM
no, jesus christ
 
yes?
 
You speak of "vector" as though it could only possibly mean momentum
 
The problem with using only 3 words to describe yourself is that it has the side effect of not actually explaining anything.
 
The problem of leaving out the most important word in the entire sentence... nvm
 
Hmm. Okay, so I'm sure I'm doing something stupid but any idea why my Application_Error method isn't getting hit?
Application_Start is but not Application_Error
 
9:07 PM
@mikeTheLiar what kind of error are you triggering?
 
@KendallFrey - That is part of the issue though. Of course it has momentum. I am not implying there is momentum I am flat out stating its existence.
 
Please make sense
 
@TomW I'm deliberately throwing an error for testing purposes
public class SpecialException : Exception { }
 
My point is, momentum is a vector, spin is a vector, position is possibly a vector
 
public HttpResponseMessage Post()
{
    throw new SpecialException();
 
9:12 PM
@mikeTheLiar hm, no idea then
customErrors setting?
 
@KendallFrey - Well that is part of the issue. The argument is that by observing the electron you change its momentum.
anyway, be back in a few
 
@TomW that would be in Web.config right?
 
@mikeTheLiar yeah
 
@TravisJ Well, of course. Your point is?
 
user47589
That won't be a problem once we invent the Heisenberg Compensator
 
9:15 PM
This whole conversation is just reminding me of how much I used to love physics but couldn't afford to stay in college.
And the likelihood of me being able to go back to school at any point in the near to mid term future is slim to none.
 
@KendallFrey - My point was that when I first learned about that it was interesting. That was literally the only point I was making when I first said that electrons were fascinating.
 
okay then
 
user47589
what is the verb form of surveillance? surveil?
 
survey?
 
Survey?
 
9:21 PM
oh i didn't know electrons moment changed when you observed them
thats neat
 
user47589
my browser doesn't like either for some reason
 
I also found it interesting that you could measure an electron in once place and the next instant that same electron could be very far away as opposed to still in the same circuit.
 
@SteveG It's called diffraction
 
@Amy yes, surveil. "To keep under surveillance"
 
9:25 PM
just by us looking at something, by accepting the light thats reflected off of it, we change it's momentum
thats just mind blowing
well, it's tiny, so theres probably no light reflected off?
but w/e
 
user47589
electrons absorb and re-emit photons
 
@SteveG no
the light that's reflected off it changes its momentum whether we see it or not
 
ohhhhhh
that sounds more reasonable
 
user47589
everything you see is light emitted by electrons emitting photons
 
you can even use that to propel a spaceship
!!wiki solar sail
 
9:27 PM
Solar sails (also called light sails or photon sails) are a form of spacecraft propulsion using the radiation pressure (also called solar pressure) from stars to push large ultra-thin mirrors to high speeds. Light sails could also be driven by energy beams to extend their range of operations, which is strictly beam sailing rather than solar sailing. Solar sail craft offer the possibility of low-cost operations combined with long operating lifetimes. Since they have few moving parts and use no propellant, they can potentially be used numerous times for delivery of payloads. Solar sails use a...
 
excited electrons :)
 
user47589
yup
 
user47589
whenever an electron wants to jump energy levels, it either has to absorb or emit a photon.
 
!!wiki planck's constant
 
The Planck constant (denoted h, also called Planck's constant) is a physical constant that is the quantum of action, central in quantum mechanics. First recognized in 1900 by Max Planck, it was originally the proportionality constant between the minimal increment of energy, E, of a hypothetical electrically charged oscillator in a cavity that contained black body radiation, and the frequency, f, of its associated electromagnetic wave. In 1905 the value E, the minimal energy increment of a hypothetical oscillator, was theoretically associated by Einstein with a "quantum" or minimal element of the...
 
9:29 PM
^--- why the Physics.SE chat room is called "The h bar"
 
ahh
 
!!wiki h-bar
 
H-bar or h-bar can refer to: H with stroke, a Latin letter H with a doubled horizontal stroke (Ħ ħ) reduced Planck constant, which the above symbol represents as a mathematical symbol, ħ = h/(2π) Antihydrogen, an antimatter element represented by the symbol H Steyr AUG H-bar, the light machine gun version of the AUG assault rifle...
 
!!wiki planck length
 
In physics, the Planck length, denoted ℓP, is a unit of length, equal to 6965161619900000000♠1.616199(97)×10−35 metres. It is a base unit in the system of Planck units, developed by physicist Max Planck. The Planck length can be defined from three fundamental physical constants: the speed of light in a vacuum, the Planck constant, and the gravitational constant. == Value == The Planck length ℓP is defined as where is the speed of light in a vacuum, G is the gravitational constant, and ħ is the reduced Planck constant. The two digits enclosed by parentheses are the estimated standard err...
 
user47589
9:31 PM
♠?
 
♠!
 
that's odd.
 
user47589
This new ♠ physics confounds me.
 
Was about to ask about that
 
<span style="display:none" class="sortkey">6965161619900000000♠</span>1.616<span style="margin-left:.25em">199</span>
 
9:33 PM
2 mins ago, by Amy
♠?
I am not familiar with that symbol
 
user47589
the wiki text is {{val|1.616199|(97)|e=-35}}
 
user47589
which gets rendered as 1.616199(97)×10−35
 
user47589
so why is that extra span in there?
 
The generated HTML is
 equal to <span class="nowrap"><span style="display:none" class="sortkey">6965161619900000000♠</span>1.616<span style="margin-left:.25em">199</span>(97)<span style="margin-left:0.25em;margin-right:0.15em">×</span>10<sup>−35</sup></span> <a href="/wiki/Metre" title="Metre">metres</a>.
 
user47589
<span class="nowrap">
	<span style="display:none" class="sortkey">6965161619900000000♠</span>
	1.616
	<span style="margin-left:.25em">199</span>
	(97)
	<span style="margin-left:0.25em;margin-right:0.15em">×</span>
	10
	<sup>−35</sup>
</span>
 
9:36 PM
I'm not seeing a definition for the "sortKey" class
 
odd
 
I believe that's how the wiki sorts tables.
 
@MikeEdenfield I was thinking something similar
To properly place it in a list of lists or something
 
@KendallFrey I do love the Caps
 
it appears they inserted that into the {{val}} template so that using it as table cells would sort properly even w/ scientific notation
I'm not sure why the extra span between 1.616 and 199 is there, though
 
9:38 PM
@SterlingArcher Silly boy
 
user47589
weird.
 
Don't tell me, you're a Canadian's fan, eh?
!!afk >:(
 
jesus hell no
 
user47589
9:54 PM
it got quiet in here
 
user47589
where'd all the chatterers go
 
Bon
Oh neat, I didn't realize chat was added to SO
 
I'm just fighting with this global exception handler
Where can I re-enable "break when this exception is unhandled"?
 
@Bon chat has been here for years now
 
Bon
I figured. Still neat.
 
9:57 PM
@mikeTheLiar You can disable that?
 
Apparently
 
user47589
yes
 
user47589
Debug menu -> Exceptions
 
What do you guys consider a good example of a multi tier application?
I mean more than 3 tiers
 

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