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12:07 AM
hmm, should I go to MS TechFest...
 
12:24 AM
do it... it sounds cool, idk what it is though
 
12:36 AM
@Codeman There's usually very cool stuff from MSR there
and frequently a lot of F# goodies ;)
 
1:07 AM
Civ V is full of dicks
 
has anyone towed anything before? I wonder if the ball mount drop is off by 1/4" if it matters?
 
user47589
my partner tows stuff somewhat frequently. i can ask.
 
user47589
what do you think of the newest Civ game, @KendallFrey
 
Beyond Earth? Haven't played
 
haven't played the newest civ yet, maybe I'll go grab it
 
user47589
1:18 AM
yeah that's the one
 
I didn't like civ 5 for some reason
theoretically it is a million times better with the enhanced combat but something felt off
I played for maybe 30 hours or so and quit. I probably dumped 2k hours into 4 and over 5k into 2...
 
user47589
civ 5 diplomacy is a joke
 
lol yeah
I accidentally got diplomatic victory my first game
 
user47589
lol wow
 
right now, I'm feeling very picked on
At one point during the game, every civ that had met me was at war with me.
 
user47589
1:21 AM
@CuddleBunny what are you going to tow?
 
all the games of civ 5 I played I accidentally won with culture
@Amy a small uhaul trailer
with no more than 300lbs of stuff inside
class 3 hitch, 2" drop but uhaul site says to get a 2 1/4" drop for my vehicle
 
shit
he declared war
im toast
Genghis Khan is going full Hitler, invading everyone
I wish Civ V had Hitler as a leader
lol
 
no custom Hitler downloads?
 
I'm sure there are kek
 
@Amy I found "Must not exceed maximum allowable hitch ball height 25", I guess I just have to make sure I'm below that
 
user47589
1:32 AM
she says its fine, just put most of the weight in the trailer forward of the axle. she says the important thing is "tongue weight" and suggested you google that
 
user47589
and make sure the chains don't drag
 
user47589
you want the trailer level, or tilted downward, so there's more weight on the hitch
 
user47589
she recommends not making it level, but having it tilt down some. makes it safer, apparently. i dont really understand any of this, just relaying.
 
that makes sense, thanks!
 
user47589
sure
 
2:21 AM
o/
Assert.Throws<Exception>( async () => await _someObjt.DoStuffAsync()) ;
^
@KendallFrey
 
you're disgusting
 
why does that give me: The active Test Run was aborted because the execution process exited unexpectedly. The test execution process crashed while running the tests.
 
Wish I knew
 
ok
 
does it happen when you debug?
 
2:23 AM
yeah, but when i use ExpectedException, instead of Assert.Throws, it works
 
probably an async thing
 
the compiler tells me this should work though :/
it says "lambda must be an async lambda", so i make it an async lambda, and then throw in an await, and it just gives the above error
ohhh, Assert.Throws doesn't pick up the exception, for some reason, when it's async
ahhh theres a ThrowsAsync method
 
 
3 hours later…
5:52 AM
Hi
 
6:13 AM
Strings are hard!
 
 
1 hour later…
7:13 AM
Mürgen!

Anyone playing or is going to start play BDO today?
 
7:29 AM
@JakobMillah Thinking about it but dont want to get to invested have the division next week
 
So many games right now... But I still think, personally, I will enjoy BDO more. Even though I like FPS games more
It just feels a bit bland.
 
7:45 AM
BDO?
Good morning all
 
Black Desert Online
And morning :)
 
mm, looks nice
 
sup guys
 
It's a sandbox anyway. I like sandbox games. Too bad it has the Asian look.. I don't really like that :) But whatever
sup bro
 
Not much. Snowing again
 
7:51 AM
Had snow yesterday.. Glad it didn't last
 
Working from home today, since it's chaos everywhere
30-40cm snow
 
That baD? :o shieeet!
 
how do i 'console read key: int1, int2, int3, int4, int5, int6.tolist() ?
 
Console.ReadKey()?
 
no but 6 different inputs on the same line and put to list
ex: 15, 20, 35, 20, 5, 1 --> tolist
 
7:52 AM
You can use ReadLine() too
and then split on space, and parse it to int
 
bingo! thanks
 
Might even go Console.ReadLine().Split(' ').Select(x => int.Parse(x)).ToList()
but that will blow up if it can't parse the input to int.
 
how do i access the list?
var q = 'list'[0]
 
'?
 
string input = Console.ReadLine();
List<int> = input.Split(' ')...
 
7:55 AM
List<int> variable_name = ...
 
so how does console.readline() run if it's placed in a variable 'input'?
 
it will stop at that point, and wait for input
 
i would readline then split that into a list of strings
 
even though it's put in a variable?
hmmm interesting
 
yes. ReadLine is blocking, and will run. Not the Action will be stored
 
7:56 AM
then count the list and parse each only if i have the right number using try parse throwing errors as needed
 
Indeed as @AlexL said. Then iterate and parse to int with int.TryParse(), to exclude non int elements in the array
 
'morning, all.
 
@JakobMillah: Might give it a go later today. Have you signed up?
morning @AvnerShahar-Kashtan
 
yep, purchased yesterday. Will play this afternoon if I get in
 
thanks guys!
 
7:59 AM
You're welcome @Adan
 
how do i set my console app to 'quit' if i press 'ctrl + c'?
 
@Adan you dont thats part of windows
 
my console app is going to do stuff for 5 minutes, but if i find something i dont like before 5 min i want to press 'ctrl + c ' to force shut
oh
 
You don't have to emulate ctrl+c. You can quit with Environment.Exit(0)
 
morning all
 
8:05 AM
good morning
 
@Adan well you would have to build in a listener for keyboard input then set timer for 5 mins then shut down
 
@Ggalla1779 again not needed ctrl+c will force quit regardless
 
the problem might be doing a clean exit
 
I just tested Ctrl-C to break in three situations - when my console app is blocking with a Thread.Sleep, when it's blocking with a tight while(true) loop, and when it's awaiting a long running task. In all three cases, Ctrl-C forced a shutdown immediately.
 
8:21 AM
Environment.Exit didn't shutdown immediately? Did You test it as well?
 
@ntohl Nope. I wanted to ensure that Ctrl-C is handled by the console window, not by my code.
 
what if you do want to handle it in code?
 
You can't override it in a console app
 
What, capture the Ctrl-C and handle it gracefully?
 
Unless you use some hooks
 
8:24 AM
Yeah, I was gonna say - use a global keyboard hook.
 
It would be very bad UX
 
There aren't any keypress events in a console app either
 
Also
71
A: How do I trap ctrl-c in a C# console app

akuSee MSDN: Console.CancelKeyPress Event Article with code samples: Ctrl-C and the .NET console application

 
Not sure what happens if you try to stick forms in there though
 
it would be like making it so kill process didnt work
 
8:26 AM
apparently pressing CTRL+C raises an event where you get one last chance to clean up before your app is killed
 
eugggh
 
@AlexL Yeah. As Raymond Chen likes to posit in his blog, "Imagine if every process did that".
 
DON'T
 
I would be quite surprised if I tried to terminate a console app, and it didn't respond to ctrl+c
might even be mad
 
@scheien I would burn it with fire
 
8:27 AM
throwing fireball
@StevenLiekens yeah, to clean up, not to supress terminating it.
Got any docs on that?
 
It might be acceptible in an enterprise as a security thing
 
if you set e.Cancel = false then your app won't exit
 
@StevenLiekens doesnt change the fact that you really shouldnt do it, and if you must use that event then at least make sure that you have timeouts on everything
 
sorry I meant true
> The default is false, which terminates the current process.
 
8:33 AM
for a consumer product I might accept a conditional cancel that gives you a warning then respects it next time, but if you have to use ctrl+c I expect that event will never fire.
 
9:04 AM
Morgen
 
@Squiggle Freemen
 
Good morning lads.
 
Finally upgradin' to 2015 at work :D
 
@Squiggle there will be some random app (VS) quit
 
@Squiggle Too bad 2015 is a POS :P
 
9:19 AM
I have 2015 Community at home. On a decently specced machine (not SSD) though. Startup time is abyssmal. :(
40-50 seconds, usually, for a first time after a reboot.
 
Yeah. SSD is pretty needed
 
jesus
I haven't even gone to bed yet
y'all are crazy
 
Timezones, how the fuck do they work
 
@TomW we don't care how they work - we just use a library to handle that logic for us, surely?
@ntohl I'm using a Quad-core i7, 16GB RAM plus SSD. VS2015 runs just fine here so far.
 
Same spec on my home desktop
 
9:33 AM
Actually - 30s to open and load solution. That's not great.
 
when I built it 4? years ago, that was an epic spec
Now looking run of the mill
 
@Squiggle Same spec here. gen6 i7. It runs.. okayish. It's not great.
But mainly its analysis is so extremely slow
 
Is that the new Roslyn analyzers or are they not in prod yet?
 
why on earth do I keep getting this for projects with MVC...
 
I still kill XDesProc.exe 2-3 times a day. :(
 
9:37 AM
@Mathematics I only get that when merge conflicts happen in my .csproj files
 
@AvnerShahar-Kashtan has anybody ever seen MS fix a bug, rather than just obsolete the product that it resides in by releasing a new version?
 
do you want to try ?
http://dotnetspeak.com/Downloads/AngularSSRS.zip
http://dotnetspeak.com/2013/12/using-ssrs-in-angular-asp-net-mvc-application
 
@Squiggle really? it takes me like... 5 seconds, maybe?
and I'm opening a microsoft written thing...
I have a 12 core Xeon and 32GB of RAM and a PCIe SSD though
 
yeah. This is just a high-spec laptop.
The economists get better machines than we do, and they just play with spreadsheets all day.
 
@Squiggle businesses are dumb
 
9:42 AM
yarp
 
@Squiggle To be fair, though, I've seen spreadsheets that took minute to calculate on high-end machines.
 
@AvnerShahar-Kashtan yeah, I guess when you're working with 50GB datasets you kinda need some processing power
 
I remember what SharePoint added an "Excel Calculation Server", which is basically Excel's number-crunching engine on a server. I don't know if anyone ever actually used it.
But that was the exact use-case.
 
sigh
use a real stats package
 
oh, they also have MatLab but there's only a couple of folks in the entire department who know how to use it AFAICT
 
9:49 AM
Excel is the most widely used stats package in the world, de facto. It makes sense to make a server version of it, rather than translating Excel to a different format and then back.
 
Excel is surprisingly good, to be fair.
I use it all the time
PowerQuery <3
 
I'm going to bed now
 
Good night @Codeman
 
because there is noone up to review my code
so I can't merge it
see you guys in 10 hours
 
Business users and spreadsheets...
 
9:52 AM
why do i get my best work done after midnight...
blah
 
@Codeman Because no distractions.
 
check it again tomorrow. It won't be Your best work after some sleep in a blink of an eye
 
@ntohl nah, this is just some refactoring stuff
but yeah. no distractions helps
 
Quiet working environment?
 
weirdly, I work better when my GF is home with me. She relaxes me
 
9:53 AM
Spreadsheets seem to make users forget about data and start thinking about spreadsheets. They don't even think about what the spreadsheet is doing for them, after a while. Instead of being a means to an end the domain becomes about spreadsheets, not about data
 
the biggest "wtf just did I" expression were after waking up for me
 
The most difficult analysis cases to unpick what the user really wants tend to involve spreadsheets, in my limited experience
 
@TomW this is a problem, yes. And because "spreasheets" is all they see, the solution to everything becomes "spreadsheets"
 
We're on the same page
er, sheet
 
worksheet
 
9:58 AM
@ntohl idk, I'm perfectly lucid late at night
probably because I only get like... 2-4 hours of sleep a night anyways
...I'm going to the doctor soon to ask about that
but I just had an Elysian Immortal IPA and I'm feeling pretty good so I'm gonna go to bed
...maybe I just need to start having a glass of wine before bed...
 
anyone can try this for me please ?
 
looks good (the beer)
 
21 mins ago, by Mathematics
do you want to try ?
http://dotnetspeak.com/Downloads/AngularSSRS.zip
http://dotnetspeak.com/2013/12/using-ssrs-in-angular-asp-net-mvc-application
 
@Mathematics builds fine
runs fine
 
why is it not loading for me, and it's not just project
 
10:02 AM
I had a couple of small-batch beers last night. Brewed 50m from my front door. They were niiiice.
 
@Squiggle lets talk about anything but C# :)
 
@Mathematics close the project then delete the .vs folder
 
@Mathematics are you getting any errors in your Output window?
 
@Squiggle what kind of beer was it? Send me some samples :D
 
Maybe the packages folder as well
 
10:04 AM
let me try again
opening it in VS 2012 btw
 
I like small-batch IPAs. Or IPAs in general.
 
@Squiggle yes
 
@Mathematics and its unmodified freshly extracted?
 
error :
The imported project "C:\Program Files (x86)\MSBuild\Microsoft\VisualStudio\v11.0\TypeScript\Microsoft.TypeScript.Default.props" was not found.
Confirm that the path in the <Import> declaration is correct, and that the file exists on disk. C:\Downloads\AngularSSRS\AngularAspNetMvc.Web\AngularAspNetMvc.Web.csproj
seems like I need to install typescript compiler
 
looks like it
you using VS2015?
 
10:07 AM
Does VS2012 support typescript?
 
I doubt it
 
3
Q: microsoft.typescript.default.props not found when opening project in vs 2012

SDeezyWhen attempting to open a project which uses typescript in vs2012 I get an error stating microsoft.typescript.default.props not found. Any ideas?

 
TS plugins are available for 2013/2015, not 2012.
 
:O
that's not fair
 
o/
 
10:09 AM
o/
epic fail
 
\o
 
Hate asking a co-worker regarding something, he gives an explanation and I tell him that it's still a bit unclear. He then describes it a bit further, this time a bit irritated. Now I am left here alone, with something I need to do, but I have no idea what to do..
 
@JakobMillah should had asked nicely :)
 
I always ask nicely
But he is a bit fiery person
 
@JakobMillah: Is it related to him explaining a task? or is it something you could ask us?
 
10:12 AM
@RoelvanUden am left with nothing but to install VS 2013 ?
 
Well, TypeScript 1.0 came out in 2014, so it makes sense to only support one VS version back.
 
ask him in email
 
@Mathematics To do what? Edit TS?
 
@JakobMillah I've had that. The trick is to repeat back as much as you understand, and let them fill in any gaps for you. Although there's no cure for someone being a prick.
 
@scheien Related to him. It's a very specific customer which is very complex and only him that knows pretty much.
 
10:13 AM
@RoelvanUden it's not loading the project...
 
@Mathematics Then yeah, 2013+ and install the plugin
 
The thing is with this guy, he got burned out for 1 ½ year and is now back, although not fully recovered..
 
@JakobMillah ah, crap. and as @ntohl said, you could send him an email
 
Is there a reason you arnt using 2015?
 
10:14 AM
Ye I'll probably do that at the end of the day so he can't call me on lync haha
 
@AlexL not sure if it's supported with SharePoint 2013
 
@JakobMillah doesn't look like he's devised a coping strategy, then
 
@JakobMillah don't be afraid of callback... just write the email, and as @Squiggle suggested repeat back as much as You understand
 
Not really.. But feel a bit sorry for him. He is smart AF and one of few that are at this company. So he get a lot of the complex jobs
 
@Mathematics Well you can run them side by side so if it doesnt its not the end of the world, but i expect it will work fine.
 
10:17 AM
@AlexL let me install VS 2015
 
I am like second after him, but ye, being new there is a lot of shit going on xD
 
It might even be that the task is too big/complex to be explained in a call, rather than an email
 
And a database that screams kill me
Ye that's one thing. + he did not exactly know what I had to do, so he told me to look it up myself and that's where I am stuck since I barely know what the issue is. Without knowing what the customers issue is, it's rather hard to know what to look up :)
 
it's not free though
should I go for express ?
or community one
 
So much shiet going on with the integration with another system.. Like deleting all products form database before import, setting all user accounts to inactive before a customer import and what not.
 
10:19 AM
what?
community is basicaly pro but free
 
@AlexL wow
 
@JakobMillah So it's a bug?
 
@Mathematics Yeah, it's a great option for small companies - up to five users can use it for free in small-medium companies.
> Any individual developer can use Visual Studio Community to create their own free or paid apps
> In non-enterprise organizations, up to five users can use Visual Studio Community.
And if you use it for teaching, academia or open-source projects, it's unlimited usage.
 
Isn't it tied to team size as with VSO? Free if the team is < 5 people?
 
We have no bugs.... :O

Basically it's a bug, or rather information. I don't really know since I barely understand the task. Gonna give it some time to try and understand by myself then just leave it and write a mail.
 
10:21 AM
@scheien No, just to org size.
Orgs with >250 PCs or >$1mil revenue are considered "enterprises" and can't use it at all.
Except for teaching/academic/OSS, as above.
 
Right. :)
 
"can't"
 
@AvnerShahar-Kashtan that's nice, we have msdn subscription though , so can get it for free from there
 
@JakobMillah your manager's problem
 
That would probably hurt if you have Microsoft step by for a license review @TravisJ
:)
 
10:23 AM
@AvnerShahar-Kashtan the requirements of free usage was not clear for me. Thx for clarification
 
You don't have enough information to complete the task and colleague said no.
 
@ntohl Sure thing. Copy-pasting is my speciality. :)
 
@scheien - It would cost them too much to even look into it than they would get out of the process, if they got anything at all.
 
@JakobMillah We have a couple of fubar integrations that I don't touch at all. Because crap will happen.
 
if I buy 250 raspberry pi's does that make me a one man enterprise?
 
10:25 AM
@TravisJ I hope so. unless they put that on top as a fine or something.
@StevenLiekens Only if you stream star trek on all of them.
 
@StevenLiekens No Pi's arnt PCs they are IOT devices
 
well duh
what else would you buy 250 rpis for
 
I had a project at a large enterprise a while ago, where we were abusing MSDN licenses and trial versions of VS2013 for the whole project. Not because they were averse to paying, but because it was 2015 and their procurement department had only finally formalized procurement procedures for VS2012, and it would take them months to have official channels to purchase VS2013 licenses. :(
 
@scheien - There is no legal precedence for that, which is to say they have never done it. Me personally though, I don't even use one of their new versions so it is a moot point.
MVC5 required in many ways Identity, so I didn't move over to it and am using my SimpleMembership because it werks.
 
@AvnerShahar-Kashtan that's the point I'd expect the CEO to just order someone to make procurement faster. That's unacceptably slow.
 
10:28 AM
46 mins ago, by Tom W
@Squiggle businesses are dumb
QFT
 
@TomW It was a >5,000 person organization. The CEO wasn't even remotely involved. Most of the projects were Java-based anyway.
 
OK, the CFO
 
Does Eclipse have any licensed versions?
 
@scheien yep and I am basically getting thrown into it since they feel like I can handle that shizzle.. Will result in me becoming a maniac :P
 
Of the 20% or so using .NET, only 2-3 were new enough to have started with VS2013.
 
10:29 AM
Someone who actually has authority to change how it's done
 
@TomW It's a big bureaucracy. The people who have authority to change it said "well, it will take us a while, so just use 2012 until then, can't you?".
 
But why does it take you a while?
 
Terrible, yes, I know.
 
Just do it
 
2/3 boat, 1/3 change
(probably didn't care enough to make the change)
 
10:30 AM
@TomW I'm assuming because they have hundreds of new procurement procedures to go through every month. And each one has a strict procedure of checking for alternate vendors and cheaper alternatives before they're approved. Even if it's a standard tool.
 
Then the procedure is stupid and should be changed. CFO definitely has the authority to do that.
 
@TravisJ MS had a license review in the municipality where I worked some years ago, that went badly. They had to pay for a few extra licenses :p
 
@TomW Yup. But big orgs live by their procedures. The CFO is probably the one who set the procedure. "Always contact alternative resellers to get the best price". In his book, that's smart management.
 
Bureaucracy is the reason I'm moving to a new job.
 
@scheien - That's what happens when you don't play by the rules. However, you still can use it; arguably it may not be wise to.
 
10:33 AM
And for some procurement scenarios, that might even be the right call. The company dealt a lot with network infrastructure. When you're dealing with cabling and labor, there can be big differences between different vendors and suppliers. When you just need a goddamn copy of VS2013... not so much.
 
The finance dept. claims that they're incapable of issuing contracts for more than 3 months in duration.
 
Are C-levels just stupid, is that the problem? Is it just that the wrong people run businesses?
 
@TravisJ true. I agree.
 
And the solution would be to replace them with smarter people?
 
screw that. I've got a 3-month notice period on my apartment and they won't issue me a renewal until two days before the end of my existing contract. Hnyrgh.
 
10:34 AM
@TomW Some of it is the price of size. If the procurement department had freer reign to choose vendors, it would allow more corruption too - choosing sub-optimal vendors for personal gain, etc.
 
@Squiggle That is abuse. :(
 
@AvnerShahar-Kashtan Distinguishing that some things are not like other things is a skill you learn when you're 1.
Apparently CFOs can't do that.
 
@scheien feels like it. At least I can say "contract extended 9 times" on my CV :P
@scheien even worse when you realise that my residency permit is tied to my contract dates.
fuqum
 
@TomW - They are too busy parking boats
 
@TomW In large enough orgs? There are layers and layers of people between the one making the call and the CFO. Each one of them has his own set of political agendas and goals.
 
10:35 AM
@Squiggle I remember you said that. Makes it even worse.
 
The larger the organisation, the harder it is for them to pivot
 
@Squiggle haven't You left that company?
 
@ntohl Working out my contract until the end of this month :)
 
@AvnerShahar-Kashtan - Isn't that the definition of corruption? When you cannot make progress due to individual agendas which run contrary to the overall goal.
 
The CFO hires a procurement manager, tells him "Make sure we have proper accountability in our procurement pipeline". Procurement Manager knows that he can't manually supervise every purchase order, and he doesn't want to have blame bubble up to him if they screw up or cheat, so he sets strict procedures they have to follow.
@TravisJ No, corruption is when people abuse the system for personal gain. What you're talking about is stagnation due to bureaucracy and mismanagement.
 
10:39 AM
@AvnerShahar-Kashtan so nobody ever sets SLAs on procurement managers then?
It's not seen as a disadvantage that the procurement manager devises a system so slow as to be useless?
 
@TomW SLAs between procurement managers and internal "customers"? Not in most places I've worked.
 
Seems like there should just be software that does the job of the "procurement" manager.
 
@TomW It's usually seen as the price of doing business. A regrettable but unavoidable disadvantage .
 
@TravisJ I'm sure there is. And I bet it's more expensive than just hiring a smarter procurement manager
 
@TravisJ What, decides what should be purchased? That's a judgement call, and probably should be left up to humans. The process should be automated, though. Usually is. That's what ERP systems do.
 
10:41 AM
Expensive? Nah, it should be on the web for free like Expedia. Otherwise it wouldn't gain traction and end up being too costly to actually use.
An ERP system is only aware of what has happened and what has been entered. Most are not capable of discovery.
Most all.
 
And now we're in the gloriously profitable world of third-party plugins
 
I have never heard the term "Procurement Manager", is that more of a European term?
 
What would you call the person who has managerial responsibility for the system of supplier vetting, issuing invoices etc?
Kind of making this up here as I have almost no idea how this actually works. It's changing somewhat now that I'm working on an ERP project
 
@TravisJ I'm translating it from Hebrew, so I don't know what the common terms are.
 
Issuing invoices? I suppose it depends on the structure. I wouldn't mix invoicing with purchasing.
@AvnerShahar-Kashtan - Fair enough :)
 
10:47 AM
I have essentially zero experience with any business topic involving money, so
 
Either way, the main issue with purchasing (which is the term I am familiar with) is growth. If a company is growing it can be hard for someone who is typically used to standing orders to know how to increase them. Especially considering that the person in charge of ordering often has no clue of what the budget has available nor what the actual rate of change for demand is.
 
I expect most businesses copy what they've always done in other companies, or follow the content of someone's MBA textbook to the letter
 
I have some experience ;) But not on a 5,000 employee scale
We definitely don't copy other companies, and no one in our company has an MBA.
Holy crap, it's 3am =/
I have to be up in like 3 hours :(
I blame Destiny for this.
@TomW - What type of ERP are you working on?
 
What types of ERP are there?
 
Well, some really get specialized into work flow, task management, or accounting.
For example, MSFT dynamics is considered to be an ERP but it mostly does work flow and task management; and is very light on the accounting aspect.
 
10:55 AM
That's similar to what I do.
 
I should sleep or something
Will probably be back on in like .... 8 hours? 9? Depends on how my morning goes when I get up.
o/
 
Sleep well, chap
 
@JakobMillah: Have you ever done any integration against Klarna?
 
Right. We're integrating with Dynamics AX and CRM
 
@scheien Nope, I have barely done any integration so far. I know this guy has though (my coworker)
 

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