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@PetterFriberg thanks, pretty clear then
@Kyll that's really horrible, del voted
If anyone like to do some NATO (also <10K) we need desperate help in SOCVFinder room, you need auto-comments : )
so much effort petter
Yeah I really need to work now... NATO is just to much incoming crap, it's a full-time job
@PetterFriberg well i will help whenever i can :)
10:29
yay i survived in the python room for more than 30 minutes \o/
I have added rule 22 to our FAQ
@rene seriously*, continue the flagged conversation*
@rene Part of that is contentious
Most flags in chat are invalid
questioning the flag is necessary
@Magisch wut?
@Magisch do I really have to explain how to respond to a flag?
@rene "take it seriously" is enough - you can take a flag seriously but still question whether it was necessary.
PR submitted
10:40
@rene For sub 10k users dismissing it is not an option
And there isn't really feedback when a flag of yours gets dismissed
And even if a flag gets dismissed, you still may want to take action on the post
So there must be a discussion about the flag unless its very obviously not ok
user3956566
hey where do we see whether our chat flags are declined or not? Is there a list like on the site?
This entire outcome goes too much in the "Listen and believe" direction for me. Offensive things are removed via flags anyways. We don't need special handling for particular offensive things. There is no need to make a hurricane out of a waterglass
Everybody's flags an accusations are subject to the same scrutiny
@Yvette No, and thats part of the problem
@Yvette mods can sort-of tell, there's an admin page on chat that lists recent flags
user3956566
@rene well done
@Tunaki did you were a spearrel few months back?
10:46
He still is
(inside)
@rene "do not continue the flagged conversation" <-- I disagree. That'd make it too easy to end a discussion.
@Magisch pff, if anything I don't want the events from earlier re-occur. I feel that needs something so either sensible regulars or an RO can fall-back to when things are still in a glass or water before it turns out to be an hurricane
I'd add "If the flag is deemed valid"
@Cerbrus I need some wording that says: investigate if the discussion at hand is somehow offensive and if so what do we need to do or change so it becomes clear it isn't
10:52
- Take them seriously
- Consider whether or not the flagged conversation should continue
Or, option 2:
- Use common sense
lol
user3956566
@rene how about "do not joke about flagged content, be mindful of other users"
@Cerbrus that will really work
user3956566
rather than "do not continue the flagged conversation"
@Yvette I posted an answer to your Q
10:53
"Be Nice, and be sensitive to others’ feelings" Just feels too much like "We don't wanna huwt anyone's feewings"
user3956566
@Cerbrus yeh, if that was available to all ...
It boils down to "If you know someone is offended by something, just cut it, we're all adults"
user3956566
@Cerbrus there is a Be Nice policy though
user3956566
@Magisch yep will go now and read and thanks
"Be Nice."
Don't bother mentioning hurt feelings. It really isn't necessary.
10:54
Hiya
You could quote Zecariah Chafee: "a man's right to swing his arms ends at the next man's nose." Or the bartender in South Park: "now, Skeeter, he ain't hurtin' nobody."
Eerie how a philosopher and a fictional bartender came to the same conclusion.
@Magisch which question?
Yvette's blocked from chat again
All praise the Australian network overlords
It must have been drop bears
2
11:10
@JanDvorak Or worse, the Drop @Kylls
Feels like I'm already one with the amount of time I spend mid-air
11:31
@Queen k
@Queen k
What's the upvote threshold for keeping a post once a user deletes their account?
0
negatively-scored posts are deleted
@AndrewL. with upvoted answers: none. Without answers, 1
waffles, to keep the clutter to a minimum
11:34
@Adriaan that's roomba, not account deletion
yes, but that speaks about post deletion especially for deleted accounts
so posts are not deleted based on the criterion that the OP is deleted, however, it does play a role in the roomba cirteria
Ok, thanks
I was under the impression that it was 3 or so
@AndrewL. that's for keeping reputation, see this meta: meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/334518/…
11:38
o/ morning all
Sam
Sam
Hiya
Morning.
sup homies
@Adriaan yeah that was confusing me, thanks again
Morning First! o/
o/ Andrew
11:41
Got to be the worst question of the month so far
^ edited it
Not at all @Magisch
@FirstStep meh, didn't make it worthy to keep
@Adriaan I did not say keep it lol
Can't understand what he need
@FirstStep that was just to say that the edit was pointless. Good thing there's no such thing as a maximum number of edits a day, but in the queue I'd reject it, because it's polishing a deletable turd
I haven't answered anything in 2 days ._.
@AndrewL. me too
On hold now
@SmokeDetector spam or naa?
11:49
@Adriaan You are not a privileged user. Please see the privileges wiki page for information on what privileges are and what is expected of privileged users.
yes yes, I know. I don't want to be privileged
@Adriaan Did you just call me pointless? :P
@FirstStep I explicitly called the edit pointless.
Nice chill music / Playlist of the day -> youtube.com/watch?v=ZwKJgox391w
11:54
@Adriaan "Feeling better" -> "Smiles"
It's still a bare "why isn't my code working?" question.
Yam
Yam
GraveRobber started 2.1.1 (debug).
@Sami at least link him to stuff like [mcve], [edit], [ask], [help] etc, instead of only stating one line "what did you try"
@FirstStep o/
12:04
@Adriaan i do what i now & edit it for him
@ColdFire o/
@FirstStep Can you explain further why that question should be reopened? Even with the attempt, it's "program no worky (code dump) (I/O dump)". There's no question in it. How is anyone going to find it and derive any use out of it?
i link him tp the help center
@Sami which is like pointing someone to a Java manual when they have a Java question. Useful, but it is rather unspecific. Better to use dedicated links, like the ones I just told you (except for [help] of course, that's still the link to the Help Centre and usually should be used with more information than just dropping that)
@TigerhawkT3 I think I explained why with my request, it is a reopen please. Not Re-open now or we are not going to be friends anymore
12:10
@Adriaan Okey
@TigerhawkT3 meeh the question seems clear and narrow with an mcve to close it we need a duplicate
user3956566
12:27
@Kyll I saw that! dammit spearrel
If anyone could help in guiding me I will appreciate it: chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/message/32867193#32867193
@SmokeDetector Is this spam?
Charcoal thinks it is
12:43
waves Hiya Jan .. long time no see!
Weird... I was here some 14 hours ago
I think the last time I talked to you was in the Tavern/Meta a few years ago..
Welcome here
:) I used to be a semi-regular here...
Started spending all of my time in wpf
user3956566
@LynnCrumbling hello long time no see
12:51
hiya @Yvette!
We finally released 2 nights ago..
user3956566
@LynnCrumbling did you see my meta post?
@Yvette Which one?
user3956566
@LynnCrumbling this
I rather have a reliable weather forecast userscipt ... oh wait ...
13:06
@Siguza Why don't you use jQuery?
I hate when everyone bully noobs :( stackoverflow.com/questions/39511759/…
@JanDvorak because I don't really know it...
@FirstStep do you mean what FirstStep did?
@Yvette Sorry to see that something like that happen and unfortunately the issue is much wider just not men and women, but also one culture and another one, new bee vs pro, skin color, the problem is always the same; one person is an "insensitive clod", trying to be fun, smart or whatever, there is no true solution other then to trash it all since there is no value for anyone in it.
@JanDvorak Did I bully? I guided. I did not push him away like other comments !!
user3956566
13:09
@PetterFriberg yep I agree
Who did bully according to you then?
Continue your battle to make internet better
user3956566
@FirstStep me too, you did good
We don't want just anyone here. Good he made effort, but even if he gets helped, we don't really want the question to stay
user3956566
@PetterFriberg you talking to First step, me or both?
13:11
@Siguza I have to run it but did you take the 9 days / 30 days / 360 days into account?
once again, nobody agrees with me...
@FirstStep What precisely do you consider "bullying" there?
@Yvette I was talking to you : ), but I guess it works for @FirstStep to... (pro vs newwbee)
user3956566
@PetterFriberg you're a nice guy Petter. You truly are.
@rene only the 9 days thing, if not closed, locked, etc. where can I find info about the 30/360 days thing?
13:13
@Yvette meeh I mess up to sometimes... but it's our nature I guess, I will show you and then you see what I mean
user3956566
@PetterFriberg meh, I mess up a lot! so we're in a club ;)
@Yvette see this chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/message/32822534#32822534, trying to be funny but as Nathan pointed out, I was just being an insensitive clod...
it is better to be boring
user3956566
13:15
yep
Yes. Plus, they they failed to reseach the site topic, and the question's not useful for english readers
@rene Okay, that makes it quite a bit more complex... I guess I'll check back when I have version 1.1 then.
@Siguza shouldn't your script do something on this? Or am I misunderstanding what it does?
and if I'm not mistaken, it'll be less than 24h before the roomba picks up that question...
13:21
@Siguza I didn't expect it there, it does work, blame me
I've missed that too
Perphaps add a splash screen (a flashing freehand red circle would do)?
well idk... was the most logical place for me to put additional stats...
@Louis I meant when the user is trying. Yes did not do a good job, did not read the compiler errors, did do the whole thing; but that is why he is considered a noob-still and needs help. So, I don't like to "_bully_" him by telling him _"hey go fix that and come back_" -> he will be like: "_fix what? I am here because I don;t know what is wrong_"
P.S when the user does not do anything at all I am the first to tell him "_hey go do something and come back_"
@JanDvorak I guess I can add a one-time introduction popover box or something...
@Siguza nah, it is fine. Once I know where to look I'll find it
13:23
@FirstStep Would it be better to just close as too broad and move on?
@JanDvorak well yeah. We are here to close junk stuff - low quality Q. But I feel sorry for them maybe because I was in their situation once and really needed any guidance
@FirstStep 100% disagree. When someone posts a question on SO that won't compile or will fail with a syntax error or fails for some reason that can be trivially ascertained, then they are disrespectful of the people who are reading the question. Telling them to do the minimum they should have done is completely legitimate. There was no bullying there.
I agree there was no bullying
user3956566
@FirstStep what do you mean example?
13:27
@Louis I mean, if someone is trying but doing a bad job, and you motivate him by saying "good job, keep going" he will next do a better job for sure. But if you say "bad job, keep trying" he might not next do a better job
Eh, no
@SmokeDetector pending edit here is pretty bad
@Louis maybe bullying was not the perfect term. But I think you completely get what I meant. You and @JanDvorak
That we need to be more positive in the comments?
@Yvette that user posted a really nice Q (considered for a noob) but comments started bad and OP got donwvote tornado. I think this gives bad image about SO as a whole community
user3956566
13:29
@FirstStep ah k
That even if a question doesn't deserve an answer answer, it always deserves a comment answer?
user3956566
I think FirstStep is referring to the notion of being nice
@JanDvorak maybe I am being a perfectionist. We can't do that with all users of course
You can't complain about the downvotes, really
@JanDvorak do you agree or disagree that this Q deserved downvotes? http://stackoverflow.com/questions/38922606/what-is-x-1-and-x-1
P.S when I commented it had -3 votes
13:31
Given that the official documentation answers this, yeah, I totally get the downvotes.
@JanDvorak this was in the documentation (see my answer) http://stackoverflow.com/questions/39278200/is-sizeofvoid-a-legal-expression/39278298#39278298
And me, answers and OP got huge upvote tornado
You may feel -3 is excessive, but we don't want people to vote based on the current score
@FirstStep SO is full of those comment, I see one more or less every 3 min, what you feel is inappropriato flag as non-constructive. I actually made a meta about these comments (on the meta you will find a lot of links to related issue). meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/333397/…
@FirstStep the difference is that you should know where to look for the meanings of operators.
Your last example shows quite a bit more effort
@JanDvorak for us it is obvious where to look or how to research. But again we are talking about noobs or first users. We need to focus on those if we want to community to grow (or provide a better QOS)
user3956566
13:36
@PetterFriberg new age Shakespeare. To Nuke or Not to Nuke, that is the question. Where it is nobler in the mind to suffer the slings and arrows of poor questions, or to edit them or just delete..
@JanDvorak do you really think it needed a bit more effort for a 12k user? I disagree. A simple research from me nailed the Q and got the answer in 2 minutes
@Yvette Check first revision, I actually had something similar : )
but the boring meta crowd edit it out : )
We don't need SO to attract more noobs
user3956566
@PetterFriberg so typical!
especially if we're going to give them voting rights
13:37
« Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer
The slings and arrows of outrageous comments,
Or to take arms against a sea of troubles,
And by opposing end them? To die, to sleep
No more, and by a sleep to say we end »
@JanDvorak I really diasgree on that. We need more users and noobs (then them to grow within SO) to get help and fix their issues. Then to SO itself to grow. So we (and SO as a community) will reach our ultimate goal: First and Best Coding Resources for Google.
@FirstStep SO already reached that goal.
I'd wager SO can keep going on sheer inertia
No. We will reach the goal of "a team of volunteers will answer each and every question you have, and delete them later". In the meantime Google will hate us to the bone
stop pinging meeee
Okay @JanDvorak
user3956566
@PetterFriberg I'm impressed clap clap clap
13:43
@Cerbrus @JanDvorak this is an interesting discussion but I really should go back to work :D
o/ everyone
That was three pings per person
@JanDvorak 4
@PetterFriberg from just that one post by FirstStep only, I mean.
I only pinged you once, Ja :P
@Yvette I like: It was the best of times, it was the worst of times, it was the age of wisdom, it was the age of foolishness, it was the epoch of belief, it was the epoch of incredulity, it was the season of Light, it was the season of Darkness, it was the spring of hope, it was the winter of despair, we had everything before us, we had nothing before us, we were all going direct to Heaven, we were all going direct the other way
user3956566
13:45
@JonClements clap clap clap clap clap bravo!
morning!
we will call you Jon Dickens or Charles Clements from now : )
@PetterFriberg yeah - no need to do that - I've always been more a Dickens than Shakespeare fan though...
user3956566
@gunr2171 morning!
13:46
@PetterFriberg The former contains a swearword
meeh it is missing \b after k, my regex would not catch it
@Cerbrus yeah - I didn't add attribution as I thought it was fairly obvious :p
@JanDvorak It's an actual last name
user3956566
I've read a reasonable amount of both Shakespeare and Dickens
I know
13:48
@JanDvorak He is a titular author of his time, though.
I mean, people who are named "Richard" at birth choose to go by "Dick". I don't know why, and it's a great vector for harassment, but it's a real thing.
(Yea, I forced that worn in there. That's a valid sentence!)
user3956566
@JanDvorak just drop that whole thing hey?
I have an Uncle Dick
Speaking of swearwords, I like these (but don't google image for them)
user3956566
13:49
anyway I must go to bed
user3956566
night all
user3956566
@JanDvorak are you serious?
user3956566
13:49
@rene will you kick him please?
@gunr2171 it's one of those weird ones... I use to work with a guy that I knew as "Jack" - turns out his actual name was "John" :p
@Yvette Why?
I mean the birds, of course
'cos in a certain era... apparently - there were completely inter-changeable...
BIG MUSHROOM CLOUD OR SOMETHING HERE...
9
Well that's ugly o.O I'd expect some more elegance from a mod nuke :P
Let's just leave it there please
13:55
What happened?
Nothing.
I expected a mushroom cloud from a mod nuke.
@Louis (removed) x 18 seems like an anti-climax :P
better than a kick
@JonClements Whoa, radical!
13:58
Everytime I come here I just see a crap ton of removed messages
@AndrewL.: you must be new here :P *Cough*
@AndrewL. can't help but feel you're exaggerating that :)
Yesterday's mushroom cloud was pretty big
14:00
Why are mod nukes so common here? I thought you'd usually just move messages to some bin room and fine…
Now, where were we before I derailed it unintentionally?
JAL
JAL
wow what did I miss
Hiya, this's spam, rite? stackoverflow.com/a/39510973/4099593
Survived there for more than an hour
@bwoebi They're certainly not common
14:01
@BhargavRao looks like it
@BhargavRao it does smell
That's what happens when you leave @petter at the gates of NATO :D
@bwoebi If you just want it moved so that you can go look at it, then there is no reason not to remove it. For the same reason SE doesn't have a wall of shame for banned users - there is no need for rubber necking.
@JonClements Well, they definitely were today and yesterday…
I left the room when NATO arrived. Too much stuff.
14:02
@Andy I haven't read what's been nuked, so don't know…
@bwoebi recent occurrence doesn't correlate with "common" occurrence...
@Andy delete, then move? Otherwise, there's a big block of (removed)
@BhargavRao : ), need to work, then I also lost 400 points on docs : (, so I went under 10K, luckily I managed to delete the worst in jasper-reports
anyway blame @Kyll : )
7
@JonClements Yeah, sorry for not having enough statistical data … I'm not that often here.
JAL
JAL
@PetterFriberg that's so sad
14:03
@PetterFriberg Damn, that's bad. Get back to 10k asap
meeh I will raise again : )
I hate when you lose privileges :(
@bwoebi The point is, it was removed. If you weren't involved you don't need to know. The users involved with the messages that were removed know what was said and now (should) know what not to do again.
@Andy Not arguing. Just saying that I usually see off-topic and escalated discussions being binned instead of nuked.
user177800
@rene thank you, that is my intent, the "your experience is not universal" quote I saw from some anonymous internet post really struck as true, that is the purpose of me challenging this "be nice" rule, it seems to encourage the assumption that if you are personally offended then the other person is an asshole by default, but passive-aggressive polite abuse is tolerated.
14:08
@BhargavRao lol
@AndrewL. true i lost a prevelige
@bwoebi and that's fine - in the vast majority of cases they're RO's that can "move" messages but not "delete" them.
hmm… I indeed can't nuke as a RO… I always thought I could, just never tried, lol
@ColdFire I lost edit and queue privileges because I dropped down to 1996 one day
@Yvette I'm not kicking users on request, sorry
plop
14:15
yay! and welcome
quick question
are there any tools
we can use
lol so many removed msg
@AndyK blob
@JonClements what did you do this time to cause so much havoc
@ColdFire varchar2
@AndyK blob is not a datatype here :/
rotfl
I <3 geek humors
quick question
14:19
@JarrodRoberson well be nice has all kind of dimensions and everybody likes to think that they are nice. Turns out you're not and I'm not and that goes for the rest of us. The central theme is: make sure you get along together. Being on either end of the spectrum doesn't help matters, IMHO. Being nice is a multidimensional problem, and it needs bloody hard work from all involved to get something that doesn't explode on a daily basis.
@AndyK Another one?
0
Q: Delete [emr] - it's a duplicate of [amazon-emr]

piotrekthose are synonyms. i suggest to merge them. leave [amazon-emr] and delete [emr] as [amazon-emr] is easier to find

or all eyes should I say
Thanks for the migration
user177800
14:29
@rene I agree 100% but the current trend is complain publicly in the comments that another commenter is rude just because they posted something you don't want to hear. Which is public shamming and a worse violation than a simple direct "We don't do your homework here." type comment that they are complainging about. I am working up a meta question about this trend/behavior, everyone will see it soon.
The alternative to such "we don't do your homework" comments is that either they get answered and learn nothing, or closed and learn a little
@JarrodRoberson love to see the meta post. Keep in mind that you're engaging in a fight between the caretakers and the rest. There are not enough caretakers ...
@JarrodRoberson please focus on the new / recently active stuff
user177800
@rene not looking for a fight, I am looking to expose the hypocrisy and inconsistency of the mods behavior.
user177800
@JanDvorak trust me, I have been a target of this behavior in the last week, it is fresh in my mind
14:35
@PetterFriberg I deny every statement made against me under any circumstance
I'm talking about your CV-PLSes
@Kyll I hereby state that you are a Spearell...
lol
what he wasnt a spearrel currently? jon
@JonClements I'm a Spearrel, not a Spearell.
@Kyll you have been until now
14:38
@JarrodRoberson use your words carefully then. I hope hypocrisy has synonyms that doesn't offend anyone at first reading ...
user177800
@JanDvorak ok one recent as today, but we can't target "users" by posting their profile and other stupid rules like that. But when you see a post from today that is extremely poor you tend to look at the history of questions that person has asked, if their most recent questions all show the same pattern of behavior of asking extremely poor questions they are relevant as well to reinforce the response.
user177800
@rene yeah I don't care about those people that get offended by words by themselves, they are a lost cause. Words have semantic meanings and innocent by themselves. If a mod accuses you of being rude and "not be nice" and them proceeds to mock you on every post you make, that is hypociricy, no other word is more semantically correct. I am collecting evidence by screen shots for the question.
@JarrodRoberson sure, but let the review queues do their job, instead organizing us as a voting mob. It is not that I don't think it is useful but because I don't want to spend another two hours on meta to defend this room.
3
I have this stupid rules because otherwise the whole meta crowd comes crashing down on us
user177800
@rene if the questions are not down voted and not voted to close at least by a couple of people then it will not be in the review queue and the behavior will not be addressed and will just continue. nipping in the bud is more effective than letting someone post crap for a year and then come here complanining because they have never been warned.
Man, just spread it over a few days, hop into the Lounge, you'll find a way. Just don't post them in a single batch here
14:43
These people don't care how you react; they're looking for the one guy that will actually do their homework for them (some people will). Consequently, your negative comment will have no effect on the OP, and will only succeed in irritating your fellow community members and alienating new visitors to the site... Harvey
It is not that hard
@JarrodRoberson that guy from a day or so ago was at -21 and about to get a question ban. And he willfully deleted. To me at least, he got the message. But to press it with a 2nd and a 3rd means that we are trying to dish out a qban
@JarrodRoberson --^ those is my feeling the negative "snarky" comments on questions just brings more crap to clean up..
it's better to just close dv and move on, no use or need to comment if you can't be constructive with OP (since he get angry or whatever)
user177800
@Drew he deleted after I has posted all the others, so there was a temporal aspect to those activities that needs to be acknowledged.
@JarrodRoberson If a mod accuses you of being rude and "not be nice" and them proceeds to mock you on every post you make- that's a rather serious accusation and you'd need to back it up.
user177800
14:47
@PetterFriberg I am the first person to vote WITHOUT a comment, I am the first person to tell everyone else to do the same.
user177800
@JonClements I am, I have plent of screen shots.
@JarrodRoberson what am saying is or you make OP listen (hence he needs to feel that you are helping him) otherwise it just no use, the comment only brings more crap
I happen to like Jarrod's comments
more bad comments, more meta, more of that more of this... and we already have enough of all of it!
ooh I'm not refeering to Jarrod's comment, I have no clue really, I'm speaking in general
user177800
@PetterFriberg thus I tend to not comment and flag any requests for comments on downvote/closevotes as "not constructive" I do not feel any obligation to comment. But when someone comments on an answer and is attacking me and mods pile on then that is not right.
14:49
@JarrodRoberson I look forwarding to seeing them. Will you also disclose the mod messages you've received about some behaviour or try to make it look very one sided?
I suggest you have someone review it first
user177800
@JonClements I am hesistent to post screen shots of private mod messages because they are just that, private. But if they are relevant to any answer/comment that I get I will post screenshots of the ENTIRE exchange. I never try and manipulate the facts to push a narrative, I will show the everything un-edited if I feel I need to diviluge.
user177800
@JonClements diamond holding mods that mock me ( or anyone else ) in public are just that public.
@JarrodRoberson sure, I really have not clue about that issue and you have my sympathy since I know the effort you bring to SO, I was more referring to the discussion on my meta , hence whether the harsh/snarky comments are useful or not
user177800
@PetterFriberg oh, yeah they are not useful, I agree
user177800
14:53
@PetterFriberg but they do not deserve the SJW mob to pile on with passive-aggressive responses that do not get equal scrutiny just because they are polite.
@DenysSéguret can you please edit your message to include a close reason? Thanks
this regex attempt... this is just like my 2yo son does when he's in front of my computer...
I need to do some shopping. Does everyone think they can keep this place tidy/unfrozen without flags and CM intervention for an hour or so? Thanks
@gunr2171 like this ?
yes, thanks
user177800
14:54
@rene what is the threshhold for using the word before it gets reported?
@JarrodRoberson SJW?
I think 2 turds a day
@PetterFriberg Social Justice Warrior, I believe
and I agree, they should just be cleaned up.
user177800
@PetterFriberg Social Justice Warrior in this case someone that gets offended by something that is only personally offensive to them and not even directed at them, someone looking for offense, just to complain about it for personal validation.
14:59
Thanks, well if offended or just SWJ is always hard to know, I'm just tired of crap in general. If question and answer is bad, we do not need more bad comments, fights with OP in comments thread... We need just to close it and then delete, if someone has the energy he/she/it can try in comment or chat to be constructive with OP..

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