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19:00
Most AutoCAD programs + 3ds Max have Z as up and Y as depth.
At least I've usually seen that vOv I don't think there's a standard
But MAya & friends have Y as up.
and Z as depth.
3D modelling programs are not math :v
Most of my artists use Maya, save for one Rogue who's in love with 3ds Max
Xeo
Xeo
Yeah
19:00
@CatPlusPlus AutoCAD are usually associated with being math and engineering-precise.
Xeo
Xeo
Also, models with x/y as the ground plane might make more sense to you if you have a "world", as x/y are positions then.
I think I'll just tell him to keep the Up-Axis as Y. That'll make this... easier.
@Xeo I've always taken Y as jump.
Or height.
So it confuses the bejesus out of me. @__@
Xeo
Xeo
@ThePhD For a 2D game, maybe.
@ThePhD AFAIK, Y is up/down +up, X is left/right +right, and Z is front/back +front.
that's RH, anyway.
Xeo
Xeo
In math, Z is inwards since you usually deal with only x/y and on paper, that's the plane you're facing.
19:02
Z is "in the screen"
LH is Z +back.
Yeah, I'm using RH matrices at the moment for DirectX.
Because RH works well with DX and plays nice.
I'm acheck one more time what maya has to say...
Oh god
Oh god he's somehow managed to take all the MayaBinary files, make them 3ds, and put it all in z-space-up
@_____________@
He really likes his 3ds ._.
Slap him
19:06
But that's not nice. D:
... THIS IS WHAT CONFUSES ME. MAYA WHY U HAV Y-AXIS-UP BUT YOUR PARNTER HAS Z-AXIS UP
They're made by the same goddamn company.
@rubenvb your clang build should have a warning that I must download/install the DW2 version of the GCC. I installed clang + non-DW2 GCC, and clang couldn't boot because it couldn't find libgcc_s_dw2-1.dll, which wasn't in my mingw folder anywhere.
They have the same internal format (fbx)
Whyyyyererererererererrerere u dooo diiissss
@ThePhD Autodesk bought Discreet, who made 3ds. They also bought Alias, who made Maya.
Also Softimage, I think.
And they could say "hey guys, when we do this Merge, let's just pick one and stick with it?"
19:08
Compatibility
Plugin ecosystems and stuff.
This is why I never want to release my software until after I've had thorough testing and QA, because if you release shit before something big happens, you can't introduce changes without someone pissing themselves about compatibility. ._.
Depends.
If the changes are internal, then it's not really an issue.
@ThePhD Hindsight
Xeo
Xeo
Hm. Somebody got a recent build of Clang handy?
@MooingDuck Right, forgot about that.
In few years you'll always realise something could've been done better
Or differently
@Xeo define recent
@CatPlusPlus And if you don't, then you did not learn enough in the meantime.
Xeo
Xeo
19:11
@bamboon Newer than 3 months, I think. :P
@Xeo is 3.2 newer than 3 months? ^^
Xeo
Xeo
I got r168978 here at home.
Yeah, but almost all exports and .max/.mb files have versioning.
Xeo
Xeo
Nah, Clang 3.3 Trunk is what I mean.
@Xeo What do you want to test?
19:12
Just look at hte version number, kick some vertices around before you import. ._.
Ah well.
Well, Xeo is on the edge that bleeds.
I'm just crying over spilt milk. I'll do the z-to-y axis transform myself.
Xeo
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes stackoverflow.com/q/14924827/500104, (my) Clang with libc++ moves even with a non-noexcept dtor.
Oh, haven't installed libc++.
Xeo
Xeo
Or maybe GCC is too old to do the implicit noexcept for dtors.. hm.
@R.MartinhoFernandes maybe you don't need libc++
19:14
Though I'm kinda busy right now. Gimme a few minutes.
Xeo
Xeo
Nvm, I think it's ok, GCC 4.8 also does that (automagically tagging it noexcept(true), I mean). /cc @MooingDuck
@DeadMG I misread that
Xeo
Xeo
@EtiennedeMartel This edge is already months old!
what did you read it as?
Xeo
Xeo
At work I got a pretty recent build, though.
Ell
Ell
19:17
Can you load a library without system API ?
@Ell No.
Xeo
Xeo
Since dynamic libraries are inherently system-dependent, no.
@rubenvb I just installed i686-w64-mingw32-clang-3.2-release-win32_rubenvb.7z and i686-w64-mingw32-gcc-dw2-4.7.2-release-win32_rubenvb.7z, and G++ works, but clang++.exe says "procedure entry point strerror_s could not be located in the dynamic link library msvcrt.dll"
@Xeo Then it's probably not bleeding anymore. Unless it's hemophiliac.
Ell
Ell
Can't you load it to memory then point to the code?
19:18
@Ell You probably need to load it into executable memory.
Xeo
Xeo
Which is effectively what LoadLibrary etc do.
(Or whatever it was called.)
And "point to the code" means "write your own dynamic loader".
@R.MartinhoFernandes Sounds like something I would do.
Just for giggles.
Xeo
Xeo
I'm thinking of writing my own fast dynamic cast for giggles.
And not the llvm::dyn_cast one that needs a fixed and known hierarchy.
Ell
Ell
Right okay
19:20
you can't write a faster unbounded dynamic_cast.
Ell
Ell
Can .dlls contain arbitrary data?
realistically
@Ell Of course.
Xeo
Xeo
@DeadMG Well, it needs cooperation from the hierarchy, yeah, but it's unbounded in a sense.
And you don't need to know the whole hierarchy at one single point.
Though I doubt it'll be that easy.
hmm
I need to uniquely name each function.
Ooh, I hope this API isn't depcarated...
19:23
hash address of type pointer and convert that to a string?
The hash is a string already.
Or is this meant for display?
no, but std::hash gives back a std::size_t
Xeo
Xeo
What do you need the unique name for? And how unique should it be? per-run?
Employ your own kind of name mangling for the function names?
@Xeo All that matters is that they all have different names. And they only need names because LLVM wants them to have names.
19:25
@DeadMG aren't the pointers unique? Why hash them?
@DeadMG > you're just jealous of my technical hymen
Xeo
Xeo
Although you may aswell use the function pointers directly, yeah..
@Xeo That's as unique as the pointer.
Ell
Ell
Technical hymen?
Xeo
Xeo
19:27
@R.MartinhoFernandes I noticed.
@Ell dont google that
Ell
Ell
Haha
@MooingDuck lol
@MooingDuck They are- I guess I could just skip the "hash" part.
Ell
Ell
What are the issues with using a DLL from a different compiler besides name mangling?
19:29
They aren't guaranteed unique.
@Ell all of the rest of the ABI
@R.MartinhoFernandes function pointers? If they aren't unique aren't they (effectively) identical in every other way as well?
@Ell Parameter passing, return value, and exception handling, mostly.
@MooingDuck template <typename T> int foo() { return 0; }?
Can you assert(&foo<int> != &foo<double>)? (I don't know)
Xeo
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes I think you can.
I found the LLVM function that deals with this.
19:31
@R.MartinhoFernandes all specializations are identical, I don't see a problem with treating them as if they were the same function
so I don't have to screw around
Xeo
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes Also, without the invokation.
@R.MartinhoFernandes oh wait, I see
Xeo
Xeo
@MooingDuck No, they're effectively different functions.
19:33
@rubenvb I unzipped the previous clang 3.1 release over the top of the 3.2 release, and now when I try to run clang I get an unhandled win32 exception :(
@Xeo I concur.
Xeo
Xeo
@MooingDuck For one, you don't know if there won't be an explicit specialization.
@Xeo not related. I was talking about treating functions who have the same address as the same function.
Xeo
Xeo
19:35
@MooingDuck Different implicit specializations can't have the same address for that reason.
@Ell en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Application_binary_interface the sizes, layout, and alignment of data types, the calling convention, how an application should make system calls to the operating system, the binary format of object files, program libraries and so on, and C++ name mangling,
@Xeo Where is that requirement?
Thank you very much
user142019
Reflection y u no find method.
19:38
@rubenvb I deleted my mingw folder, re-unzipped mingw32-gcc-dw2-4.7.2-release-win32_rubenvb.7z and i686-w64-mingw32-clang-3.1-release-win32_rubenvb.7z, and clang still has a null pointer exception at start.
....
That was totally unexpected, no
what, a not-naked girl offends
You know. My wife was here sitting. I can hardly tell her this is normal right :)
lol
I still have a comment describing how my semantic analyzer has literally zero features.
my wife was right behind me too, but I don't think she noticed
19:39
even though I actually added some features a while back.
@MooingDuck You don't think :)
@LightnessRacesinOrbit And she was actually naked.
@LightnessRacesinOrbit still naked
no visible nudity
Xeo
Xeo
19:40
@R.MartinhoFernandes For one, there's a requirement that every function template specialization has its own copy of any static variables.
@LightnessRacesinOrbit I think you misunderstand what nudity is. It's an objective state, and is not dependent on the viewer
Xeo
Xeo
I don't think it's easy to implement that without having them be different functions.
@Xeo That's irrelevant if there are no static variables, like foo above :P
Xeo
Xeo
Although you could make a lookup table I guess, and index with function name and template arguments
user142019
WHAT THE FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK
19:42
> Two pointers of the same type compare equal if and only if they are both null, both point to the same function [... stuff for object pointers].
That's better.
user142019
I tell Reflection.Emit to define a method but it cannot find that method later.
I don't know of any wording that suggests that function templates are functions.
E.g. "A function instantiated from a function template is called a function template specialization; so is an explicit specialization of a function template."
@LucDanton can two function template specializations be the same function?
That and how ODR applies to function templates and specializations really suggest that, no, they're not.
19:45
wait, I forgot whos side I was on. I started out by suggesting the address could be used as a unique function identifier >.<
Plus, keep in mind the insanity of C99 inline. At the very least I believe the intent is for them to be different (with different addresses).
@LucDanton oh, true
fucking hell
my analyzer is data member galore.
ooh, my other beer
Xeo
Xeo
Fuck, I forgot to think about an important part of dynamic_cast<D*>(p)- proving that p actually points to a D. :D
Yeah, I can make something that isn't dynamic_cast run faster than dynamic_cast.
19:52
@MooingDuck that's weird. Let me download and check myself. You aren't running XP by chance?
@rubenvb Win32XP
Lol
@MooingDuck there's a certain function that Clang is compiled to use that might cause an error. But I get a descriptive "entry point not found" error in my XP64 vbox.
Xeo
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes :D
btw, I got owncloud up and running.
With SSL.
19:54
@rubenvb the function was tiny, I can check the ASM and give a hint as to the probelm maybe
Now I only need to move the lighttpd daemon into a chroot and I'll have maximum consumer security.
Xeo
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes: I was thinking "Hm, somehow, I only have compile-time components.. wait.. wasn't there a runtime part to dynamic_cast... Fuck."
@MooingDuck was it clang compiled code or clang itself crashing?
@rubenvb I unzipped, went to the command line, typed clang, and get a unhandled null pointer.
@MooingDuck ok. I'll be able to check in about a minute if it happens on Win7 x64.
My WinXP64 box is... disconnected at the moment.
19:55
@Xeo Isn't &foo<int> != &foo<double> a type error?
Xeo
Xeo
@FredOverflow Properly converted to a void(*)() pointer, of course.
In that case they're both int(*)(), aren't they?
@MooingDuck you're assuming I can read assembly?
Xeo
Xeo
@LucDanton True, looking at the original declaration again.
19:57
:P
@FredOverflow No, why would it? They both have the same type.
Can you nilly willy cast function pointers like that?
You don't need to cast anything.
They are both int() functions.
Xeo
Xeo
I'm somehow not up to par, today.
user142019
Global method y u no work.
Xeo
Xeo
19:58
I keep overlooking important things.
@MooingDuck Well, clang -v works here. Hmm.. Running it through gdb won't give much more, all executables are nicely stripped.
Ooooh, I broke it.
Xeo
Xeo
Broke what?
himself

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