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7:00 PM
Most AutoCAD programs + 3ds Max have Z as up and Y as depth.
 
At least I've usually seen that vOv I don't think there's a standard
 
But MAya & friends have Y as up.
and Z as depth.
 
3D modelling programs are not math :v
 
Most of my artists use Maya, save for one Rogue who's in love with 3ds Max
 
Xeo
Yeah
 
7:00 PM
@CatPlusPlus AutoCAD are usually associated with being math and engineering-precise.
 
Xeo
Also, models with x/y as the ground plane might make more sense to you if you have a "world", as x/y are positions then.
 
I think I'll just tell him to keep the Up-Axis as Y. That'll make this... easier.
@Xeo I've always taken Y as jump.
Or height.
So it confuses the bejesus out of me. @__@
 
Xeo
@ThePhD For a 2D game, maybe.
 
@ThePhD AFAIK, Y is up/down +up, X is left/right +right, and Z is front/back +front.
that's RH, anyway.
 
Xeo
In math, Z is inwards since you usually deal with only x/y and on paper, that's the plane you're facing.
 
7:02 PM
Z is "in the screen"
 
LH is Z +back.
 
Yeah, I'm using RH matrices at the moment for DirectX.
 
ueh. Dx.
 
Because RH works well with DX and plays nice.
I'm acheck one more time what maya has to say...
Oh god
Oh god he's somehow managed to take all the MayaBinary files, make them 3ds, and put it all in z-space-up
@_____________@
He really likes his 3ds ._.
 
Slap him
 
7:06 PM
But that's not nice. D:
... THIS IS WHAT CONFUSES ME. MAYA WHY U HAV Y-AXIS-UP BUT YOUR PARNTER HAS Z-AXIS UP
They're made by the same goddamn company.
 
@rubenvb your clang build should have a warning that I must download/install the DW2 version of the GCC. I installed clang + non-DW2 GCC, and clang couldn't boot because it couldn't find libgcc_s_dw2-1.dll, which wasn't in my mingw folder anywhere.
 
They have the same internal format (fbx)
Whyyyyererererererererrerere u dooo diiissss
 
@ThePhD Autodesk bought Discreet, who made 3ds. They also bought Alias, who made Maya.
Also Softimage, I think.
 
And they could say "hey guys, when we do this Merge, let's just pick one and stick with it?"
 
7:08 PM
Compatibility
 
=[
 
Plugin ecosystems and stuff.
 
This is why I never want to release my software until after I've had thorough testing and QA, because if you release shit before something big happens, you can't introduce changes without someone pissing themselves about compatibility. ._.
 
Depends.
If the changes are internal, then it's not really an issue.
 
@ThePhD Hindsight
 
7:10 PM
 
Xeo
Hm. Somebody got a recent build of Clang handy?
 
@MooingDuck Right, forgot about that.
 
In few years you'll always realise something could've been done better
Or differently
 
@Xeo define recent
 
@CatPlusPlus And if you don't, then you did not learn enough in the meantime.
 
Xeo
7:11 PM
@bamboon Newer than 3 months, I think. :P
 
@Xeo is 3.2 newer than 3 months? ^^
 
Xeo
I got r168978 here at home.
 
Yeah, but almost all exports and .max/.mb files have versioning.
 
Xeo
Nah, Clang 3.3 Trunk is what I mean.
 
@Xeo What do you want to test?
 
7:12 PM
Just look at hte version number, kick some vertices around before you import. ._.
Ah well.
 
Well, Xeo is on the edge that bleeds.
 
I'm just crying over spilt milk. I'll do the z-to-y axis transform myself.
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes stackoverflow.com/q/14924827/500104, (my) Clang with libc++ moves even with a non-noexcept dtor.
 
Oh, haven't installed libc++.
 
Xeo
Or maybe GCC is too old to do the implicit noexcept for dtors.. hm.
@R.MartinhoFernandes maybe you don't need libc++
 
7:14 PM
Though I'm kinda busy right now. Gimme a few minutes.
 
Xeo
Nvm, I think it's ok, GCC 4.8 also does that (automagically tagging it noexcept(true), I mean). /cc @MooingDuck
 
@DeadMG I misread that
 
Xeo
@EtiennedeMartel This edge is already months old!
 
what did you read it as?
 
Xeo
At work I got a pretty recent build, though.
 
Ell
7:17 PM
Can you load a library without system API ?
 
@Ell No.
 
Xeo
Since dynamic libraries are inherently system-dependent, no.
 
@rubenvb I just installed i686-w64-mingw32-clang-3.2-release-win32_rubenvb.7z and i686-w64-mingw32-gcc-dw2-4.7.2-release-win32_rubenvb.7z, and G++ works, but clang++.exe says "procedure entry point strerror_s could not be located in the dynamic link library msvcrt.dll"
 
@Xeo Then it's probably not bleeding anymore. Unless it's hemophiliac.
 
Ell
Can't you load it to memory then point to the code?
 
7:18 PM
@Ell You probably need to load it into executable memory.
 
Xeo
Which is effectively what LoadLibrary etc do.
(Or whatever it was called.)
 
And "point to the code" means "write your own dynamic loader".
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Sounds like something I would do.
Just for giggles.
 
Xeo
I'm thinking of writing my own fast dynamic cast for giggles.
And not the llvm::dyn_cast one that needs a fixed and known hierarchy.
 
Ell
Right okay
 
7:20 PM
you can't write a faster unbounded dynamic_cast.
 
Ell
Can .dlls contain arbitrary data?
 
realistically
@Ell Of course.
 
Xeo
@DeadMG Well, it needs cooperation from the hierarchy, yeah, but it's unbounded in a sense.
And you don't need to know the whole hierarchy at one single point.
Though I doubt it'll be that easy.
 
hmm
I need to uniquely name each function.
 
Ooh, I hope this API isn't depcarated...
 
7:23 PM
hash address of type pointer and convert that to a string?
 
The hash is a string already.
Or is this meant for display?
 
no, but std::hash gives back a std::size_t
 
Xeo
What do you need the unique name for? And how unique should it be? per-run?
 
Employ your own kind of name mangling for the function names?
 
@Xeo All that matters is that they all have different names. And they only need names because LLVM wants them to have names.
 
7:25 PM
@DeadMG aren't the pointers unique? Why hash them?
 
@DeadMG > you're just jealous of my technical hymen
 
Xeo
Although you may aswell use the function pointers directly, yeah..
 
@Xeo That's as unique as the pointer.
 
Ell
Technical hymen?
 
Xeo
7:27 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes I noticed.
 
@Ell dont google that
 
Ell
Haha
 
@MooingDuck lol
 
@MooingDuck They are- I guess I could just skip the "hash" part.
 
Ell
What are the issues with using a DLL from a different compiler besides name mangling?
 
7:29 PM
They aren't guaranteed unique.
 
@Ell all of the rest of the ABI
@R.MartinhoFernandes function pointers? If they aren't unique aren't they (effectively) identical in every other way as well?
 
@Ell Parameter passing, return value, and exception handling, mostly.
@MooingDuck template <typename T> int foo() { return 0; }?
Can you assert(&foo<int> != &foo<double>)? (I don't know)
 
ah
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes I think you can.
 
I found the LLVM function that deals with this.
 
7:31 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes all specializations are identical, I don't see a problem with treating them as if they were the same function
 
so I don't have to screw around
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes Also, without the invokation.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes oh wait, I see
 
Xeo
@MooingDuck No, they're effectively different functions.
 
7:33 PM
@rubenvb I unzipped the previous clang 3.1 release over the top of the 3.2 release, and now when I try to run clang I get an unhandled win32 exception :(
 
@Xeo I concur.
 
Xeo
@MooingDuck For one, you don't know if there won't be an explicit specialization.
 
@Xeo not related. I was talking about treating functions who have the same address as the same function.
 
Xeo
7:35 PM
@MooingDuck Different implicit specializations can't have the same address for that reason.
 
@Ell en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Application_binary_interface the sizes, layout, and alignment of data types, the calling convention, how an application should make system calls to the operating system, the binary format of object files, program libraries and so on, and C++ name mangling,
 
@Xeo Where is that requirement?
 
Thank you very much
 
user142019
Reflection y u no find method.
 
7:38 PM
@rubenvb I deleted my mingw folder, re-unzipped mingw32-gcc-dw2-4.7.2-release-win32_rubenvb.7z and i686-w64-mingw32-clang-3.1-release-win32_rubenvb.7z, and clang still has a null pointer exception at start.
 
....
That was totally unexpected, no
 
what, a not-naked girl offends
 
You know. My wife was here sitting. I can hardly tell her this is normal right :)
 
lol
I still have a comment describing how my semantic analyzer has literally zero features.
 
my wife was right behind me too, but I don't think she noticed
 
7:39 PM
even though I actually added some features a while back.
 
@MooingDuck You don't think :)
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit And she was actually naked.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit still naked
 
no visible nudity
 
Xeo
7:40 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes For one, there's a requirement that every function template specialization has its own copy of any static variables.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit I think you misunderstand what nudity is. It's an objective state, and is not dependent on the viewer
 
Xeo
I don't think it's easy to implement that without having them be different functions.
 
@Xeo That's irrelevant if there are no static variables, like foo above :P
 
Xeo
Although you could make a lookup table I guess, and index with function name and template arguments
 
user142019
WHAT THE FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK
 
7:42 PM
> Two pointers of the same type compare equal if and only if they are both null, both point to the same function [... stuff for object pointers].
 
That's better.
 
user142019
I tell Reflection.Emit to define a method but it cannot find that method later.
 
I don't know of any wording that suggests that function templates are functions.
E.g. "A function instantiated from a function template is called a function template specialization; so is an explicit specialization of a function template."
 
@LucDanton can two function template specializations be the same function?
 
That and how ODR applies to function templates and specializations really suggest that, no, they're not.
 
7:45 PM
wait, I forgot whos side I was on. I started out by suggesting the address could be used as a unique function identifier >.<
 
Plus, keep in mind the insanity of C99 inline. At the very least I believe the intent is for them to be different (with different addresses).
 
@LucDanton oh, true
 
fucking hell
my analyzer is data member galore.
ooh, my other beer
 
Xeo
Fuck, I forgot to think about an important part of dynamic_cast<D*>(p)- proving that p actually points to a D. :D
 
Yeah, I can make something that isn't dynamic_cast run faster than dynamic_cast.
 
7:52 PM
@MooingDuck that's weird. Let me download and check myself. You aren't running XP by chance?
 
@rubenvb Win32XP
 
Lol
 
@MooingDuck there's a certain function that Clang is compiled to use that might cause an error. But I get a descriptive "entry point not found" error in my XP64 vbox.
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes :D
 
btw, I got owncloud up and running.
With SSL.
 
7:54 PM
@rubenvb the function was tiny, I can check the ASM and give a hint as to the probelm maybe
 
Now I only need to move the lighttpd daemon into a chroot and I'll have maximum consumer security.
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes: I was thinking "Hm, somehow, I only have compile-time components.. wait.. wasn't there a runtime part to dynamic_cast... Fuck."
 
@MooingDuck was it clang compiled code or clang itself crashing?
 
@rubenvb I unzipped, went to the command line, typed clang, and get a unhandled null pointer.
 
@MooingDuck ok. I'll be able to check in about a minute if it happens on Win7 x64.
My WinXP64 box is... disconnected at the moment.
 
7:55 PM
@Xeo Isn't &foo<int> != &foo<double> a type error?
 
Xeo
@FredOverflow Properly converted to a void(*)() pointer, of course.
 
In that case they're both int(*)(), aren't they?
 
@MooingDuck you're assuming I can read assembly?
 
Xeo
@LucDanton True, looking at the original declaration again.
 
7:57 PM
:P
 
@FredOverflow No, why would it? They both have the same type.
 
Can you nilly willy cast function pointers like that?
 
You don't need to cast anything.
They are both int() functions.
 
Xeo
I'm somehow not up to par, today.
 
user142019
Global method y u no work.
 
Xeo
7:58 PM
I keep overlooking important things.
 
@MooingDuck Well, clang -v works here. Hmm.. Running it through gdb won't give much more, all executables are nicely stripped.
 
Ooooh, I broke it.
 
Xeo
Broke what?
 
himself
 

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