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9:01 AM
Rename a file, type ctrl+backspace, notice the funny characters (Win7)
 
Pre-win10 plebs
 
> For example, in game development, “cowboy coders” are necessary to ...
Oh boy.
 
to cowboy_cast
 
Oh cow boy
 
what's a cowboy coder
 
9:07 AM
@AngryLettuce Code first, make architecture later
 
what do you mean 'architecture'
TIL I am a cowboy coder
 
Forgot about this commit :/
 
I remember learning about that for python.
 
@LucDanton you're still a fool
 
Don't worry, I was just as upset as you.
 
9:10 AM
@thecoshman Show us where Luc touched you <3
 
Ven
@Shoe well, rather, default values are evaluated when a function is defined
 
@AngryLettuce I meant directly going to coding without making any previous thinking (be it architecture, design, algorithms whatever)
 
@ElimGarak last night :\
 
Ven
instead of each time the function is called, like, uh, everything logical would do
 
It's the "shooting before asking questions" of programming
 
9:10 AM
@ThePhD I remember that I've spent hours trying to figure out why a list was being modified, then I came here and rightfold, if I'm not mistaken, enlighten me about this
 
@Shoe Stupid yeah.
But everyone who used Python for a while knows about it.
 
@Rerito yep that's me (not by choice)
 
Just use None next time.
It can be abused.
 
@AngryLettuce Redneck programmer
 
well if I spend time on design I am labeled as TOO SLOW
and I don't even mention WRITING TESTS
the horror
 
9:12 AM
e.g.
def foo(*, _internal_state=[]):
    _internal_state.append(0)
    if len(_internal_state) == 3:
        # function was called 3 times..
 
user1804599
@Shoe s/sometimes/always/
 
ain't gonna need tests in a trading system m8
 
silly etc
but I've seen terrible things like this
 
@AngryLettuce get a job that doesn't suck balls, m'okay
 
@Rapptz lol
 
user1804599
9:13 AM
OMG python people how many AttributeErrors will it take
 
Nothing like programmers on Twitter.
 
Why am I still awake.
It's 4 AM.
 
Another failure, www.washingtonpost.com, the supplied time stamp is almost ISO8601 but is not: 2016-01-27T02:24-500. The TZ offset either needs to be hhmm (4 digits) or hh:mm format.
There is so much fail on the Internets wrt/ metadata and upholding standards.
I should like start collecting the failures and produce some rant blog about it.
 
Lol. Implying anyone's ever followed a standard properly on the internet.
 
@ThePhD Some people try and do.
 
9:25 AM
@AngryLettuce Well, if you need tests it means you are not confident with the code you produce... Do you think you are a bad programmer?,,,
 
epic fail
 
morning
 
@Rerito yes
 
@Rerito ... not sure if you are just trying to be funny or not...
 
@thecoshman Wait, you think I'm serious?
I was just mimicking silly managers' POV
 
9:32 AM
someone is consulting me on how to write a CV .. I told them they should keep it within 1 page, and make sure it's readable
 
@Rerito no, I was worried you might be
 
@KhaledKhnifer "I wear no panties" qualifies!
@wilx I feel that would be hilarious
 
@sehe content depends on their experience, and what they're applying for. can't be specific here
 
:D
> retarted
P0wned
@ThePhD as you, I would be just as upset :)
 
@Rerito I thought of a drunk pirate developer that would be in a pub corner talking like "back in ma day, we didn't test our code"
 
9:39 AM
@Shoe Haha. Yeah. I got bitten by that some years ago as well.
 
It's like those guys in interviews that say they don't debug coz their code always work hahaha
 
@AngryLettuce robernope
 
@ThePhD Wasn't sure if trolling at first
> "To CRAPL" means "to release under the CRAPL." "CRAPLed" software is software that has been released under the CRAPL.
Definitely trolling :D
 
@Rerito Or maybe they don't debug because it's a waste of time, 99% of the time.
If tests make you insecure, constantly wanting confirmation that the computer executes your code as required is... I don't know. VeryInsecureIndeed(tm)
Tests, in fact, should remove the need for that type of debugging.
And the rest is asserts and tracing IYAM
 
@sehe My little experience taught me debugging is always a PITA when you didn't write the said code
 
9:41 AM
@Rerito problem is the day it doesn't work suddenly they're powerless and have no idea what to do
 
@Rerito s/debugging/anything/
 
debugging is not always simple, also not always possible
 
@sehe Yes :'(
 
@KhaledKhnifer deep
 
@AngryLettuce are you being labeled at all? That's. Wow. I must have been so lucky with my projects
@AngryLettuce That's why people come to him/her for advice on writing CVs
 
9:43 AM
I just like to complain
 
@KhaledKhnifer @AlexM. here's a gold nugget for you :P
 
@AngryLettuce Yep me too. Typical french
 
what is it with these "low latency binary protocols" sending sequence numbers in ASCII over 20 bytes
 
just send a goddamn uint64
 
9:47 AM
Jan 11 at 9:07, by Angry Lettuce
"This is a high performance, low latency protocol. [...] All integers are stored in ASCII form". Yes high performance yes
 
the good patience
 
This is a guide on how to write a CV that I wrote, in Arabic in case you can read it
 
@KhaledKhnifer Now, OCR it
 
@sehe different protocol this time
 
You eat protocols for breakfast
 
9:50 AM
with strawberry yogurt
 
yaourt
most beautifru spillung
 
jawohl
 
sinaasapelsap
 
sinaasappelsap
 
Yes of course more double consonants what the fuck
 
Ven
9:54 AM
Fuck, I have to use open() :[. fml
 
appel, short a, so double consonant. otherwise you'd read it as aaapel.
 
aaaaaaaaaaaapppppppppppppeeeeeeeeeeellllllllllllllsaaaaaaaaaapppppppppppppp
do you understand now motherfuckers
 
this remind me of "spooderman: tihs gaev me canecr" the meme of 8 year olds profiles on the internet
 
cause we have aa as a long a
 
I have this dilemma that I like to code against interfaces rather than concrete types but I hate runtime polymorphism but the alternative is templates so all code in header and that sucks what do
Help @Luc how2codes
please orientate your nocireceptors in my general direction
 
9:56 AM
use virtual concepts
 
Ven
@AngryLettuce use a language with ADT.
 
@AndyProwl those don't exist
 
ah, right
 
@AngryLettuce open up your Atom™ editor and start hacking away!
 
you're supposed to cure cancer not make it thrive
fuck english
 
Ven
9:59 AM
fuck so-called natural languages.
 
> Sinaasappelsap is een vruchtensap verkregen door het binnenste van een sinaasappel uit te persen. Sinaasappelsap is in de winkel te koop met en zonder vruchtvlees. Vers sinaasappelsap heeft over het algemeen een fruitig-zure smaak.
When I see all these double letters I can only think a) whoever invented Dutch had a broken BIOS b) this must gzip quite well
 
lol
oh my, wtf SFW
 
selection at work
 
bogo at work
 
Python experts
Nevermind, I figured it out
 
10:10 AM
@AngryLettuce Or it would, but modern medicine gives a lot of people second chances.
(Have you watched Idiocracy?)
 
@MadaraUchiha Oh my balls!
 
@Rerito It's got electrolytes! It's what plants crave!
 
Ven
lol, open into write: permission denied.
 
@MadaraUchiha ikr
 
> Please suggest me.
« I suggest you » — sehe 7 secs ago
 
10:14 AM
yo
 
sup kbok
 
arnaoauauoaud!
 
> Jyotideep Bhuyan
@Madara Is Jyotideep Inyurmam an allowable nickname
 
It's not openly referencing any poultry
 
@AngryLettuce Any particular reason why it wouldn't?
 
10:16 AM
No just asking
 
Morning.
 
@ElimGarak yo
 
lel
 
trying to get rerito hired :D
 
Trying to get you fired.
 
10:18 AM
int const *ptr = &a; // here we say ptr is a pointer to a const int which is a.
 
@AngryLettuce in C++ you always code against interfaces
 
I found a chat with more moderators than tavern & it's infested with trolls. I love it!
 
@Morwenn what
 
@slaphappy uh?
 
@slaphappy C'était pour la rime bébé.
 
10:20 AM
@AngryLettuce the header file is the interface
 
Oui mais non, quand tu veux faire genre class A { A(B dependency_thierry); } et que tu veux faire un mock de ton B tu fais comment au juste
 
@Morwenn oh, ok.
 
Ven
@AngryLettuce squoi le probleme?
 
@AngryLettuce actually you could make a b_mock.cpp but w/e I was just nitpicking
 
1 message moved to bin
 
10:22 AM
@Rerito hope you like TMP
 
please read the rules
 
ben faut que B ce soit une interface ou un template OR la première solution oblige a du polymorphisme runtime et la deuxieme bah ça fout le code dans le header c'est chiant
 
hahahah
@TonyTheLion <3
 
@ElimGarak <3
 
@slaphappy Ok, I read that as "review your ADL" :p
 
10:23 AM
@AngryLettuce when you write a pimpl, the header is 100% an interface
 
Oct 10 '15 at 14:33, by user1977867
is it a worng place to ask a cpp doubt
lol
 
I don't write pimpl
 
@sehe oh god
 
it's super annoying and bloated
 
@Rerito We're not going to ask you TMP questions, but the team is doing a fair amount of TMP code, so it's better if you like it
 
user1804599
10:24 AM
I removed a bug by removing the feature that it occurred in.
 
@slaphappy Yeah I like it
 
@AngryLettuce I said "when you do" not "do it"
 
@TonyTheLion That was his last message before today's apparently
 
#releasetemplatesfromheaderfiles2017
 
@sehe so he's not even new here
that makes it worse
 
10:25 AM
@AngryLettuce If I say "when you make passionate love with your sister it's called incest" I'm not telling you to do it
 
@slaphappy you are not solving my probleeeeeeeeem
@slaphappy flag&ban
 
@AngryLettuce Oh wow, this place is for solving problems now?
 
Well, for some people every day is the first one, over and over
 
I thought it was a nitpicking forum
all those years
 
Lounge is a place of manly love.
 
10:26 AM
yea I come here to nitpick
 
and besides why would I enjoy incest I am not muslim
 
@TonyTheLion honest could have pointed/moved to C++ room
 
@sehe I keep forgetting about that place
sorry
 
Is it still alive?
 
that's more C than C++ though
 
10:26 AM
Move to LRiO's room.
 
its dead to me
 
naked pointer stuff
an active bin, sounds charming ...
 
Ven
@AngryLettuce ah ouais, t'as pas vraiment le choix du coup, t'as perdu. Sinon tu peux juste rewrite les fonctions dans la mémoire au runtime pour le mock ;D
 
@LucDanton o_0
 
@ElimGarak <3
 
10:27 AM
@Ven toot le monge!
 
@Ven super
so everyone does pimpl or what
 
@TonyTheLion <3 in Wroclaw
 
@ElimGarak ah yes.
 
@Ven hardcore
 
Ven
p much. runtime cost but heh
 
10:28 AM
Mroclam
 
Ven
believe in your compiler to devirtualize calls<3
 
@AngryLettuce My understanding was that trying to mock classes in C++ was fucked so you just don't do it
 
OK but meh
 
@AngryLettuce lettuce is coming too
 
@slaphappy How am I going to test my network code without mocks
@ElimGarak yes
 
10:29 AM
@AngryLettuce use stubs
 
dibs on rerito's abs because cat's couch is taken by xeo anyway
 
stubs the zombie
 
@AngryLettuce on the network
 
@TonyTheLion fixed :)
 
I am enrolling on a drinking gaem with cat.
 
10:30 AM
@sehe thanks
 
@AngryLettuce what does "toot le monge" even come close to saying?
 
if you get to see cat first
 
Ven
@slaphappy at $work we have interfaces, then each interface has a subclass in the "impl" namespace (DI blablabla), so it's 1) interface with everything pure 2) the impl .hpp 3) the impl .cpp
(and the interface .cpp, for the DI function -_-)
 
@Ven totally overkill imo
 
Welcome to the wonderful world of Java envy
7
 
10:30 AM
@ElimGarak if you find cat, drink a bottle of vodka?
 
@sehe that
 
@slaphappy s/totally/mostly/
 
@sehe I don't has it
 
Still tipsy?
 
nah
oh wait... I have not even a smidgen of hang over... I must still be drunk
 
10:31 AM
@sehe I... I... No! What are those feelings!
 
@thecoshman Nothing. You meant "tout le monde" though
 
You should test individual classes with individual behaviours, then test subsystems, then test the system imo
 
@Ven Oh god, and then you have unnecessary layers everywhere with stub calls like internal_->do_this()
 
Ven
@Rerito nah, we don't have that
 
@Rerito Just vote for language level reflection or overloadable operator.!
 
Ven
10:32 AM
the interface class only has pure virtual methods
 
@sehe like I said, what does it come close to saying... what does that mean then I wonder...
 
I can't afford runtime polymorphism anyway THIS IS LOW LATENCY with ascii numbers lol
 
@thecoshman Nobody knows. Those frenchies are weird
 
Ven
@slaphappy yes, it is... Sometimes we skip the interface class, and only have one for interface==implementation. But at least, it's true it makes mocking very easy
 
@slaphappy When you say individual behavior, you mean all the stuff inside the class that doesn't interact with stuff outside the class?
 
10:33 AM
omg I actually started a useful conversation on testing practices in C++
showers in would-be stars
 
@AngryLettuce Runtime polymorphic digits FTW System.Digit and System.DigitSequence
 
@Rerito Embrace operator. for your pimpl :D
 
I should learn C++
 
@Morwenn You should see this code, it's fucking unreadable
 
10:34 AM
@thecoshman tout le monde = everybody
 
@Rerito Why should I see it then? :(
 
It's like chose 3 words: "Cat", "Dog", "BartekMom"
then, mix these 3 together in any order... Good job, you now have classes that coexist in the code.
 
too le monge
 
Is Bartek's mom coming to unconf?
 
@Rerito Those are synonyms.
 
10:35 AM
@TonyTheLion oh no you didn't
 
@Rerito yeah
 
Also, Bartek is going to have travel further than Andy :D
 
@sehe I did
 
@ElimGarak Airbus Beluga was already booked on that date, so no
 
Impossible
 
10:36 AM
There's the class "CatDogBartekMom", then "DogCatBartekMom", then "CatBartekMomDog" and so on (of course I'm overstating this but I'm a drama queen)
 
Camels everywhere
 
camel_toe
 
All in CamelCase of course
 
other variant include $(ProjectName)Processor $(ProjectName)Container $(ProjectName)Computation $(ProjectName)Proxy
 
funny, you google 'toot le monge' and the mega death song comes up first :P
 
10:38 AM
lol so here's a number in ASCII that takes ~~20~~ bytes yes
probably to code up 10^20 different numbers I guess
 
@slaphappy Here it's with Manager, Handler and Server.
 
toot le monge
 
You'll have say <ItemName>ManagerServer and the related abbreviations! Like <ItemName>MgrServer
 
@Rerito ...yeah.
 
And then you're like WTF dude
 
10:40 AM
@slaphappy toot toot
 
toot le monge new meme
 
#tootlemonge
 
it's been my goto French line for evers
 
toot it your f-ing self
 
monge ma marde comme dirait @Etienne
 
10:41 AM
Ostie de calice
 
je vous chie dans les oreilles
 
aley cariboo etc
 
@AngryLettuce suck le blur
 
I love french slurs
 
s/rs/ts/
 
10:42 AM
@AngryLettuce Don't, it's a waste of time.
 
Personal fav' is "enculé de ta race"
 
@Madara what about Samir Laput
 
@Rerito "a cool data race"?
 
@TonyTheLion Lol. The article has it so wrong.
> Unfortunately, the question teenagers usually ask is: how could this possibly go wrong?
That's exactly what they /should/ be asking themselves but never do.
 
@AngryLettuce I approve
 
10:44 AM
@sehe Not really surprising
Its the internet
 
Still impressive if they're gonna have the moralizing tone and get it upside down
 
> Entertainment-wise, it’s Houdini for people who get all Ds in high school.
Now that is some damn fine journalism :D
 
If there are any network/socket gurus watching: Is non-blocking send() actually ever useful? It seems to me that if the OS is under momentary load heavy enough that it can't handle flushing more bytes to the wire, then blocking/waiting for that to clear up is usually the only sensible thing todo... provided no other threads are "hogging the pipes" with huge writes, that shouldn't take very long anyway, right?
 
@thecoshman Who gets the D?
 
10:48 AM
I just replied on an email with a question, I kept refreshing my inbox for a minute, I forgot that email is not a fast way of communication
 
@Will If you can do something else instead, of course that's useful. IO bound operations rarely clog the CPU. If IO-bound, the CPU is typically... idle (because of the waiting).
Of course, that won't be true if you are going to be a silly guy and loop to wait.
That only optimizes room heating.
 
> Male giraffes have been observed to engage in remarkably high frequencies of homosexual behavior. source
TIL
 
/cc @CaptainGiraffe
 
gayraffes
 
@sehe Yeah, it's just that I expect "writing to the wire" to be pretty fast IO... are you sure the CPU would never be part of the bottleneck there? Either way, if the blocking timespans are very short I'm not sure it's worth the hasle to do something else, in most cases...
 
10:52 AM
Wow. Makes me kind of happy about /not/ getting any sex ed from my parents.
@Will Yes. That's well known fact. CPU is may orders of magnitude faster. Obviously
 
@sehe faster than what exactly?
 
@sehe how2benis
 
@Will Faster than any type of I/O
 
@Will That, of course, explains the abundance of frameworks and competing kernel primitives for doing asynchronous IO. (Hint: you've got it completely upside down)
 
@Will CPU nowadays are left mostly yawning even by intense I/O
particularly when using DMA in which case the CPU isn't involved at all
 
10:54 AM
So what hardware aspect exactly is the bottleneck in blocking writes to the network?
 
@Will The network itself
 
@Will Latency of the bottom OSI layers
 
A wire is slow
 
"OSI layers" isn't hardware...
 
@Will You could, by now just read up. Resisting it is dumb useless and annoying.
 
10:56 AM
@Will yes but its the process of getting the data to hardware, so to speak
 
@sehe OSI lol
@Will ... hardware is part of the layered model
 
The OS can only dish out so many bytes per second as the actual line allows, the rest has to be queued
 
@Will Yup. They're completely unrelated as everyone knows. Because, as you know, OSI layers are used on named pipes just the same, because it's mainly a hobby of software designers!
(Hint: you still have it upside down).
 
oh my lol
 
angry sehe alert
 
10:57 AM
I'll be gone now. I might get annoyed here.
 
tony, ping me in IRC once this stupidity is over
 
Perhaps he should read up on how computers work
 
har har
 
@slaphappy I may check out that cmg place after the interview
 
@TonyTheLion Nah.
@Will Seriously though. This is not up for debate. EveryBodyEver(TM) is not wrong about this.
I'm sorry to shatter your intuition, but the sooner, the better!
 
10:59 AM
@sehe Thats why I said he should read instead of asking silly questions
 
@sehe why is it a matter of being right or wrong? I'm just trying to get a picture of where most write latency comes from. Stop being so smug about evrything...
 

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