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2:00 PM
We have opinions :(
 
user1804599
> Some spikes killed you with its spikes.
 
I have cold feet.
Literally.
> "It is International Women’s Day, a day when women and men across the globe stand together to demand gender equality."
2
wtf
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Oh I hear you're mean!
(is it true?)
 
Do you people keep your PC's (Desktop) to the left or to the right of the monitor?
 
@Nooble Under my hands while I type
 
2:07 PM
pleb
 
@AlexM. Hey, I'm a college student
Can't be lugging around a tower everywhere I go
 
he also mentioned DEKSTOP
 
@Nooble Happens to be left atm.
 
@AlexM. Aw, give me a break, it's 4am here.
 
> (Desktop)
 
2:08 PM
@Nooble left
used to be right at my parents'
 
same
it just comes down to room layout, position of sockets, etc
 
I see putting it to the left would be more convenient, as I'm right handed and my mouse is to the right.
 
@Nooble This seems better
You might want to consider placement of USB ports though
Or how your legs move
I often kicked up computer because it was in front of me lol
 
@Nooble So you want it on the right, so that your mouse cord has maximum extension.
 
Been up quarter of an hour. Bored already.
 
2:16 PM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Would you like to be furious today?
 
@Cinch Not really
 
@Puppy I use a wireless mouse.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Would you like to look at a pre-C++ tutorial I'm making?
 
user1804599
I need a T. rex.
 
@Cinch What is pre-C++?
 
2:17 PM
@райтфолд Who doesn't?
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit For people that hasn't touched any code yet in their life.
i.e. "I'm 12 and what is this"
 
user1804599
template<typename T>
void spawn(T rex);
 
Also where the hell is GCC 4.9 for Windows?
 
@Nooble here's a trick I use to make sure my mouse's cord does not get in the way
 
2:20 PM
(feel heavy or limit my movement)
 
That's just retarded
 
And massively offensive to the originators of that movement
> Meanwhile, education secretary Nicky Morgan has also said the number of female MPs should be increased.
So get more women to run for government!!!!
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Mmm... It's not completely solved you know
 
Nobody's fucking stopping them
 
2:21 PM
Third world countries especially
 
@AlexM. Is that an XBox controller?
 
yes
 
user1804599
@Puppy I use a USB extension cord at work.
 
@Cinch I would like to see it.
 
with the mouse's cable going beneath it
and kept in place
 
lol that kid
 
follow the rabbit hole
 
Popular unrequest: Rename back the lounge<c++> please.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit lol ikr
 
user1804599
2:22 PM
> Welcome. This website is dedicated to learning C++. I will heavily confer to the C++11 standard.
 
user1804599
lol C++11
 
@πάνταῥεῖ Why?
 
user1804599
old cruft
 
@πάνταῥεῖ Unpopular request you mean
 
@Cinch I don't think "confer" means what you think it means.
 
2:22 PM
room topic changed to Lounge<C++>: Praise the High Council. [c++] [c++11] [c++14] [c++-faq]
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit fuck you're right.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit I don't like it. Haskell is just :C= ...
 
> This site prizes conciseness. This means the word count will be cut down to a minimum.
I'm sure the redundancy in this paragraph is deliberately ironic...?
> Note: you should not post on Stack Overflow until you are at least out of Level 0.
niiice
 
(I am personally level -0.5)
 
user1804599
> You know nothing about programming.
 
user1804599
2:23 PM
Neither does the author.
 
user1804599
> Do not look at Lisp, […]. A complete beginner must be able to digest the most basic of syntax.
 
user1804599
lol
 
> C++ is almost entirely irrelevant to the day-to-day work of the web industry
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Is that wrong?
 
True. Just want to note, my current project's web GUI is C++-powered
 
2:25 PM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit I thought most web people don't use C++
 
(Which fits into the other side of 'almost')
@Cinch correct
 
user1804599
Whoever wrote that crap most delete it.
 
user1804599
What a horrible website.
 
@райтфолд Stop being such a turd, seriously
@Cinch I wanted to codeshare between the front-end and back-end so I made the front-end a CGI app written in C++, and it worked out wonderfully
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit I thought you can do that with Python
 
2:26 PM
> High-school algebra
> (trigonometry and calculus not required)
 
@Cinch I wanted to share code between them
 
so, middle school algebra?
 
The data models are quite thick for this particular project
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit I see
@Blob Uh, no...?
@Blob I'll probably introduce trig somewhere for the sake of it
@Blob i.e. Angles and navigation etc etc.
Pretty important for game programming or simulating physics
Let's not even start with quaternions
I'm just not gonna go into 3D because it's way beyond me.
 
2:29 PM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit ???
But whyyyyyy QQ
 
user1804599
@Cinch Just like C++.
 
cos he's being a knob
 
@Cinch he didn't ignore you
 
Oh he's been doing this for about half an hour I think now?
 
He's been doing it for about three years
 
2:30 PM
@райтфолд I just wish people would insult me less and just give me constructive feedback.
I'm trying to do a good thing here...
 
oh I just realised the articles are in backwards order!!
 
user1804599
Then Lounge<C++> is not the right place for you.
 
you're trying to do a good thing, but you have no idea how to even start and you're just going to hurt everybody else in the process.
and furthermore, you're ignoring our expert advice.
 
user1804599
It's time to take a shit.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Just follow the links
 
2:31 PM
just focus on learning C++ and design for like, the next five years
 
I scrolled instead and got bitten for it
 
then come back and do it
 
your C++ code snippets have some &lt; etc in them
> These are called binary values (“bi” like bicycle)
"bi" like rightfold
 
> As a beginner, you will look over HTML, Javascript, or Python as your first code ever.
please do not mention javascript
 
2:32 PM
and html isn't a language
well, not a programming language
javascript is horrible
 
it is a language kind of, but it's definitely not a language in the same way that C++ is
 
broken image in 0.2
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Again? ugh....
 
@Blob So? Doesn't mean he shouldn't mention it. Newcomers will come across it
@Blob The last word in its name is "Language", bub
It's a markup language. Oh, look the penultimate word in its name is "Markup"!
 
2 mins ago, by Blob
well, not a programming language
 
2:35 PM
link to 0.3 at end of 0.2 is not a link
 
:|
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Hmm, is that where the name Markdown came from?
 
Awesome.
 
@Cinch This is very good. You need to work on the navigation a bit but the content and accuracy are excellent.
Very impressive for a beginner tutorial. Could form the basis of a pretty good book.
@Puppy lol what "expert advice"? Quote yourself giving Cinch "expert advice"? All I've seen you do is shit on his face, you little punk
 
2:37 PM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Thanks, the link should be fixed now.
 
There is a cancer at the core of this room and it's spreading.
 
> I hear there is a programming language in Chinese, but many programmers learn English as a second language to just be able to program.
I disagree
 
@ParkYoung-Bae Are you the linkedin landing page dude
 
Non-english speakers don't (need to) learn English to get what "if" or "while" does
 
@Blob Lol, silly, how else would you understand?
 
2:40 PM
and they're not used the same way as in English anyways
"if" <-> conditional
 
Do you understand what から and まで means?
Of course, you'd need to know japanese for that
 
@Cinch no, but if i'm taught that "から (myvar == 5)" executes the following block of code if myvar == 5
 
Some languages do not have an equivalent for some English language constructs
 
i don't need to know whether "から" means "if"
 
It obstructs meaning of the language
Programming languages are for us, not the computer
 
2:42 PM
@Blob Um international programmers do learn English to program, bub
 
Otherwise we'd be still coding in binary
 
@Blob Kara also means "to" in Japanese
Note how there are also 3 different "to"-like particles in Japanese
 
"[-1-9213] (myvar == 5)" is as much "English" as "if (myvar == 5)"
 
Japanese also doesnt have an exact 1-to-1 mapping of the possesive ('s)
 
2:43 PM
you need to learn what keywords map to what concepts; what the keywords are is arbitrary
 
@Blob No, "if" was chosen as a keyword because it makes sense in the context of English
@Blob NO
@Blob That is not true.
you think like a machine, not like a human
 
It can help, sure, but it's not necessary
 
@Blob You mean like how eating and breathing are not necessary?
Of course they are, you don't have to do them but you do.
Why?
Analogies are the only reason we have programming languages
 
i = to_num(>>)
call wot[i]
<< retval[0]
 
2:45 PM
please tell me how i need to learn some non-existent language where those symbols make sense to understand that code
 
You're missing the point completely, @Blob
 
@Blob Let's see you learn en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whitespace_%28programming_language%29 without documentation
I can't
I'm pretty sure any normal human being can't either
Without the compiler or an equilvalent program it would take a long time
 
@Cinch that's not the point. the point is that once i learn it (using documentation in whatever language i prefer), i can use the language without knowing a "real" language where whitespace has such meaning
 
@Blob And yet we choose to program in C++ rather than whitespace and people program in Python more than C++
 
assuming such a language exists, there's no need for me to learn it to be able to program in Whitespace
 
2:48 PM
why?
A language that is twice harder to understand is automatically worse
 
It's more about conversing with the wider community and sharing resources
But, yes, having natively-intuitive keywords makes a big difference.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit No programmer can do anything in a vacuum.
 
Your insistence that it doesn't is ridiculous
 
i'm saying you don't need to know English to know a language like C++
 
Nobody said you did
9 mins ago, by Cinch
@Blob Lol, silly, how else would you understand?
ok he did a bit
 
2:49 PM
11 mins ago, by Blob
> I hear there is a programming language in Chinese, but many programmers learn English as a second language to just be able to program.
 
I think this conversation has been a misunderstanding.
 
@Blob Dude even foreign programmers sort of agree that English is kind of important
 
@Cinch the abstract keywords "if", "while", "class", "struct", sure. When I write "class PixelData", I'm not thinking about any English meaning of the word "class".
 
This is written by the co-founder of Stack Exchange
Dude even C++ still assumes ASCII encoding
 
that's a language flaw
 
2:52 PM
@Cinch Whoever claimed, that programming languages have to have anything in common with natural languages? Read Chomsky.
 
@Blob Yes you are
 
oh, apparently there's a fitting definition for class that I don't use in English
hmm
let me find a better keyword
try {} catch (...) {}
 
@Blob It's connected to an idiom anyways and uses English to convey it
 
@Cinch I'm not quite sure why Jeff thinks this has anything to do with Americans. Does he think Americans came up with the English language, and are responsible for spreading it around the world? Strange.
 
The point is that if it were in Chinese it would have a similar idiom
 
2:54 PM
@Cinch there was a guy awhile back that wrote a programming language in arabic
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit No, he's referring to the American "Do you speak English" trope
 
@Mr.kbok Correct
 
was quite pretty looking with syntax highlighting
 
@Cinch if the keywords were "toilet {} poop(..) {}", my understanding of exception handling would remain the same
 
@Cinch Since when is that an American trope?
I mean, specifically.
 
2:55 PM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Oh well we're American and we kind of all know it
The rude American that thinks everyone should know English
is a trope indeed.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit since a long time, we're notorious for not speaking any language but american english
 
It reads as if he thinks that because only Americans speak English, therefore for everyone to speak English while programming is somehow a commentary on a purely American trope. Whereas neither of those things are true in the slightest.
 
@Blob I doubt you would've learned it that fast though
 
@Cinch ??? Of course everyone should know English lol, is there any other language worth knowing? I don't think so
 
I wonder why he couldn't make the article about the native English-speaking world, not about Americans (which have nothing to do with programmers around the world using English)
 
2:56 PM
@Cinch I seriously disagree! I AM NOT AMERICAN! (and being proud of it)
 
@πάνταῥεῖ I am American and yet I am not American, I'm from Hawaii
 
@Cinch it may be hard for someone who's not familiar with the english alphabet and can't easily recognize the difference between words, but the keywords being called "try" and "catch" doesn't help at all.
 
it's like, "Where's your passport?"
 
Besides, the Latin alphabet, as the name suggests, was invented by Americans
 
2:57 PM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit pa-sa-poo-ru-to o kudasai?
@ParkYoung-Bae Yup.
Of course, 'murica also invented freedom
And rock and roll and God.
 
@Blob That's total nonsense. Try #define boogie try #define puppy catch #define when if #define humphrey else and see if you don't get confused
@Cinch what?
 
@ParkYoung-Bae which was really ripped of the phoneticians
 
@Cinch Surf well, and have a good smoke ;-)
 
user1804599
hhahahahahaha
 
2:58 PM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit That's totally Asian-mangled English right there
 
@πάνταῥεῖ No, I kind of wish Hawaii was more... integrated in a way
so what? We take racism kind of lightly over here because it's not the biggest problem.
 
I wish I could star that
 
user1804599
You must be white.
 
so you only take something seriously when it reaches the #1 spot?
 
2:59 PM
@райтфолд I'm Japanese/Okinawan
 
I suppose a small isolated community can do that
 

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