« first day (1604 days earlier)      last day (3345 days later) » 

9:17 AM
what, "Only pregnant women with cravings are desperate enough to buy McDonalds"?
 
@Puppy What? Risk their unborn child? Never!
 
now now
 
Do any of you know assembly well enough?
 
I know it well enough
 
Well enough for what?
 
9:24 AM
for your mom
 
For my new tutorial website
 
assembly's use is zero, so "well enough" is zero; therefore, everybody knows assembly well enough.
 
Remember how "C++ tutorials" suck?
 
also, I had a brief look at your tutorial website, and it is shit.
 
@Puppy Which is why I'm here to ask for help
 
9:25 AM
considering that you appear to know pretty much nothing about C++, it would be best for you to shelve the project until you do.
 
@Puppy I disagree and will continue going on because you learn by teaching as well
sorry not budging on this one
 
except in this case, you're basically just teaching other people bullshit.
you're making them suffer and teaching them incorrect things just for your own benefit.
it's pathetic.
 
@Puppy What's incorrect?
 
well, let's see
 
inb4 'All of it'
 
9:27 AM
the first six items are just meaningless wanking.
the most important items are at the bottom of the list.
the majority of critical items like std::vector are nowhere to be seen
 
I'll add that
 
and half of the list is just random specific libraries that don't belong anywhere here.
 
I meant read 0.1 and 0.2
sorry
0.0 and 0.1
 
I would start by deleting about 75% of those items.
and changing the rest to be in a completely different order. And then adding some more actually useful items.
also, I actually have a bunch of C++ tutorials up somewhere.
well, they're not up anywhere anymore, but I do have them lying around... somewhere.
 
@Puppy can you tell me some useful items?
 
9:30 AM
well let's see
the whole containers and iterators of the Standard library should go right at the top.
templates too.
and lambdas.
fuck arrays who needs that shit.
 
By the way, Level 1 is meant for people that still haven't gotten through anything else
Arrays are important because std::vectors are somewhat wrappers around arrays
 
also
 
As in, I'm a C programmer who needs to learn C++
 
hang on, did you seriously reference HTML as a syntax similar to C++...???
@Cinch Forget C. std::vector wrapping an array is irrelevant.
 
No, it's a better introduciton
@Puppy Implementation is important!
 
9:31 AM
HTML has nothing to teach that's useful for C++.
@Cinch Only if you're the implementor.
what matters is the interface.
 
@Puppy Syntax is still better to understand than C or C++
I started with HTML as my first introduction to code
 
yes, but it's utterly useless to anybody who wants to learn C++.
so there's no point learning it just because it's easier.
 
Which is why I also gave Javascript and Python as useful examples
Dude, it's meant for people that haven't touched code in their life
Level 1 is for people that have touched code
 
contradiction.
1 min ago, by Cinch
As in, I'm a C programmer who needs to learn C++
 
How's that a contradiction?
 
9:33 AM
@Cinch HTML is not code; it's markup. Even if you went to JS instead, the concepts there are so different to C++ that it's more-or-less useless.
 
@Puppy To people that haven't programmed before, HTML might as well be code
They dont' even have an idea of what syntax IS
 
no.
 
Well, most people use one or more natural languages.
 
No?
 
HTML is not code and that's a fact regardless of your perspective.
 
9:34 AM
@Puppy Its 9:00am and your making fun of some kid :-/
 
fundamentally, the aim of your tutorials is to teach people C++, and learning HTML will do fuck all for anybody in that regard.
 
@Puppy Level 0 is explicitly for people that have not learned how to code at all
 
you need to focus on your core goal and discard all the irrelevant shit.
 
Level 1 is the starting point for people that know code
Level 0 consists of fundamental concepts required to start learning C++
for people
 
"know code"? know code? knowing other code is immaterial.
and HTML doesn't really have any concepts useful for starting to learn C++.
 
9:35 AM
@Puppy HTML introduces the basics on syntax and formatting for people
 
just start from the C++ beginning and let people read the ones they want to and skip the ones they don't.
 
that's it.
@Puppy I disagree.
 
which they could equally easily learn using C++.
let's face it, C++ has some horrendous syntactic abominations, but if you're just starting out you won't really encounter any of them.
 
@Puppy But they will.
The point is to give people strong fundamentals
I don't believe in case-by-case solving
 
HTML is not a strong fundamental of C++.
 
9:37 AM
No, it's not
 
then cut it.
 
it's a good choice for a 12 year old kid that has no idea what coding IS
 
well, no, it isn't.
 
Unless someone has built a processor that executes HTML in hardware, I would struggle with C++ and HTML in the same tutorial.
 
It was for me at 12
 
9:37 AM
he already made his choice by coming to a C++ tutorial website.
 
@Puppy mmm, good point.
 
@Cinch That's irrelevant.
 
@MartinJames Any processor will do!
 
@MartinJames Did you look at the site
 
personally I started with QBASIC, but I would never recommend that to anybody else.
 
9:38 AM
@MartinJames /compactcpp.wordpress.com/2015/03/08/0-0-ground-zero/
 
When I was 12 I learned a bunch of wrong stuff like malloc, still trying to get it right :-)
 
@Cinch No, (which is why I made only some general comments).
 
@MartinJames It's pretty terrible.
hence my immense sarcasm and smacking.
hmm
I do still have my old tutorials lying around on disk it seems
at least some of them.
this isn't all of them.
 
I cover basic digital logic in 0.1
 
that's an epic fail.
 
9:42 AM
WEll, it suggests avoiding Lisp, Haskell, and Fortran. So far, so good, though Fortran should be FORTRAN.
 
@MartinJames okay
 
Xeo
Om nom nom prawns.
 
oh by the way
I love how you list random tools, but then don't even mention source control.
oh, there it is.
I should consider equipping my glasses.
anyway, that should really be in the "Before you even begin" section.
 
@Puppy Hm...
 
hmm
should I ressurrect my previous C++ tutorials?
 
9:44 AM
@Puppy where they any good ?
 
er, I wrote them
 
inb4 "better than his"
 
Xeo
@Puppy So, of course not.
:P
 
owch
that hurts me in my hurty place.
 
'But computers cannot add' -well, I'm pretty sure that is one of the things that they can do:)
 
Xeo
9:46 AM
Prawns with thousand island dip.. so good
 
@Xeo Oh thanks. I've had some toast:(
 
@MartinJames "Or can they?"
 
Xeo
They had the prawn ring on discount :< I couldn't resist
They also had tiger and black tiger prawns, but those were a tad expensive to eat alone.
 
Hmm. Food.
 
right.
 
9:49 AM
needs more soylent
 
I submitted another very unhappy complaint that will get totally ignored by the recipient.
 
Should probably grab some before I finally get home.
 
Xeo
aaand I'm out of prawns. Dammit.
 
I know it's pointless but it makes me feel better.
 
Xeo
Too tasty, too quickly gone.
 
9:49 AM
notice the guy is licking the girl
 
@Mikhail dat tongue doe
 
no, his tongue is clearly on the straw.
 
I'm sorry my monitor doesn't have depth perception.
 
Your eyes do.
Stereoscopy is not depth perception is not stereoscopy.
Stereoscopy is not even crucial for depth perception.
 
alright then
I told these ugly fuckers that I'm from North Korea.
 
Xeo
9:52 AM
wat
 
gearbox
I wish I'd been informed that they're utter wankers before I purchased the game
 
Visual cues like things obscuring others by virtue of being closer don't need stereoscopy and his tongue is clearly obscuring the straw.
learn2eyes
 
10:08 AM
@R.MartinhoFernandes o_0 you brought it up though
 
That's what I told her.
 
Xeo
time for D&D
 
user1804599
hi
 
You guys like this?
 
user1804599
@Puppy I think many noobs will declare functions locally.
 
10:50 AM
@Cinch too many words, no content
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polari <-- notice Unicode
 
user1804599
All commercials are silly.
 
user1804599
I feel terrible.
 
11:22 AM
Hm.
FileFormat.info uses Google search for searching.
Seems rather bad considering the whole special characters thing.
Ooh I did find this
 
11:38 AM
Interesting discussion on terse template syntax (for those who care), with big names taking part.
 
user1804599
What would you use circular lists for?
 
auto f(auto) -> auto?
Shit man. It's happening.
 
user1804599
In C++14 you just write auto auto(auto auto) { auto; } The compiler infers the rest from context.
 
yep
auto f(auto x, auto y) { return x + y; }
 
Also, void f(tuple<auto...> t) { ... }
 
11:44 AM
yeah fuck that
I can live with auto f(auto) but not that
that's just dumb as hell
 
user1804599
auto f(auto {x, y}) { return x + y; } :P
 
Why would you care forbidding it?
auto type deduction is already defined in terms of template type deduction
 
user1804599
Because he loves special cases (see also Sol).
 
Shut up rightfold
Use git blame next time
 
It makes sense to let auto appear wherever a T (for some typename T) can appear
 
user1804599
11:45 AM
lol in Go you can create a ring of -1 elements.
 
auto in parameters at least has precedence for consistency (i.e. generic lambdas)
 
and then it makes sense to have a concept name appear wherever auto can appear, except they slightly fucked that up for the moment
 
temp<auto...> doesn't have that
and it doesn't even make sense tbh in terms of use case
why would you use it?
 
1 min ago, by Andy Prowl
auto type deduction is already defined in terms of template type deduction
 
user3010322
@AndyProwl I need template <auto...> for a list of values.
 
11:46 AM
for consistency, I think they just did the right thing
 
user1804599
Go is a great programming language.
 
user3010322
Right now, I have to do template <typename V, V... vn> to do a list of values
 
@ThePhD That's not part of Concepts TS (in fact I'm not sure there's a proposal for that, but I read about it)
 
user1804599
Because it's simple.
 
I need template<anything...> to write a template that is capable to catch every template.
 
user3010322
11:47 AM
@Griwes Too hard to work into the current system.
 
Yeah.
 
The thing I mind the most about Concepts TS is that I can't declare a variable of concept type
 
It'd need types to be typed values.
 
user3010322
You'd need something meta to be able to tell apart a type from a value
 
I really don't understand why
 
11:48 AM
@ThePhD Not really, I'd just need types to be first class. :D
 
The specified use case for temp<auto...> in the thread seems to be for pseudo-constraints
 
It's a "forwarding" template anyway.
 
which is just a half-baked thing for when actual real concepts are added to the language
 
And the second thing I mind the most is that there is no shortcut for referring to both rvalues and lvalues in concept definitions
 
user3010322
@Griwes template <typename V, V v> struct value {}; And there you go, now you can give a value to a list of types.
 
user3010322
11:49 AM
I do this in my C++07 const_map implementation.
 
@ThePhD Let me try to show you what I am (or rather, was) trying to do.
 
user1804599
> Should a maximum size be adopted for a queue, then a circular buffer is a completely ideal implementation; all queue operations are constant time.
 
user1804599
Neat.
 
C++07?
 
user3010322
@AndyProwl It was for VC++ on vanilla VS 2013.
 
11:50 AM
What's C++07?
 
user3010322
A bastardization of C++11 that only VC++ "supports".
 
I've stated it before
But I find auto abuse like this to be stupid and find concepts way better.
 
@ThePhD The simplest case is template<template<typename...> class T> struct template_ { template<typename... Args> using type = T<Args...>; };.
 
Why would that be an auto "abuse"?
 
So basically I want to "apply" "laziness" to a template.
 
11:51 AM
void foo(vector<ConceptName>) => fine, void foo(vector<auto>) => wrong?
 
Right now I can only do that with templates that are parametrized on types, can't do that when a value appears somewhere.
 
That would be an argument against consistency
 
@AndyProwl m8 if auto f(auto t, vector<auto>) -> auto is not 'abuse of a keyword' then god knows what is.
 
Which makes it incapable to capture enable_if'd templates.
 
43 secs ago, by Andy Prowl
void foo(vector<ConceptName>) => fine, void foo(vector<auto>) => wrong?
 
user1804599
11:52 AM
@AndyProwl Make auto be the empty concept. :P
 
Yes.
 
@Rapptz That... makes no sense.
 
When you take in a generic algorithm you are expecting something from the type.
 
No, that would be a horrible inconsistency
 
This should be specified in terms of a concept.
 
11:53 AM
@Rapptz Also no-one writes auto f() -> auto.
 
Not something like "let's just throw in auto in there"
 
user3010322
What does auto mean in your example, @AndyProwl?
 
user1804599
void f() throw (T) {
    throw auto(); // throws T()
}
 
@Rapptz Then you could just ban auto
 
I don't hate auto.
I just don't like it in function parameters or in my types.
 
11:54 AM
@райтфолд Jesus
 
@Griwes Yes it does.
 
user3010322
I want template <auto X> to get rid of having to specify the value type before using a value in a template.
 
@Griwes Purposely placed to show a message.
 
@Rapptz Ok, but then f(auto) should be just as bad as f(vector<auto>). Why would you leave with the former, but not with the latter?
 
@AndyProwl I don't actually like the former.
 
11:54 AM
@Rapptz But you can live with it
 
I said I would live with it if it came down to it.
That doesn't mean I like it.
 
user3010322
@AndyProwl Can't you achieve that with template <typename T> f (vector<T>) ?
 
Right. So why can't you live with vector<auto>?
 
@Rapptz No-one writes code like that, so the example might even be an abuse, but it's completely irrelevant to the discussion.
 
@ThePhD Yes, but that's unnecessary syntactic noise
 
user3010322
11:55 AM
@AndyProwl don't you like*
 
Ahem?
 
Also, what would be the requirements of something like std::move() on its type?
 
@Griwes Whatever. Couldn't care less.
 
lol
 
This is probably the most critical article I have right now: compactcpp.wordpress.com/2015/03/08/0-3-translating-code-to-run
 
11:56 AM
@AndyProwl It's unconstrained!
 
user1804599
The more places you can use auto in, the better.
 
user1804599
Use auto everywhere.
 
@Rapptz Usually I play your role in various discussions. :D
 
@Griwes I'm not in the mood to play games with you.
 
user3010322
@AndyProwl Oh, right. So it's the same things as polymorphic lambdas having auto for the generic type.
 
11:56 AM
@Rapptz Sorry, I don't understand. Did you mean to reply to another message of mine?
 
@Rapptz wat
 
@AndyProwl Yours.
 
I just stated an observation. How the fuck is that "playing games with you"?
 
Can you guys look over 0.3 and see if it ties up the intro to programming part of my C++ tutorial site nicely?
 
@ThePhD Yes. Plus, you can put auto wherever a T was allowed (for some typename T). After all, auto type deduction is already defined in terms of template type deduction.
@Rapptz ..."of mine"...?
 
user3010322
11:57 AM
I actually would be against this.
 
So should I encourage newbies to use auto or no?
 
@Cinch Let's start from "almost no language is inherently 'compiled' or 'interpreted'".
 
@Rapptz (I'm referring to the std::move() one, more precisely)
 
@Griwes The third choice is a combination of both
 
user3010322
void (auto f) in a non-lambda function gives off the air that this is a function that can be compiled into a translation unit. It's not.
 
11:58 AM
That's where I explain Java
 
@AndyProwl I didn't reply to anything about std::move.
 
@Cinch Again.
 
Okay, but what else would it be?
 
@Cinch No language, except some weird ones, like Perl that is not parsable, is not inherently "compiled" or "interpreted".
 
user1804599
I like how in Go you can actually say func f(a, b int) { } and both a and b will be of type int.
 
user3010322
11:58 AM
Usually you can tell something's a template by the template <...> on it.
 
@Rapptz So what's unconstrained about PhD's example? How does your reply relate to my mention of syntactic noise?
 
You can compile Python to an executable.
 
@Griwes I said that
 
You can have a C++ interpreter.
 
Okay I'll just put that languages can be run two different ways
 
11:59 AM
@Cinch You also state that "python is an interpreted language".
 
user1804599
I wonder if whether would be possible in C++. I'm afraid not.
 
@ThePhD auto void f() cannot be defined in a separate translation unit already
 
Which is bullcrap.
 
user1804599
Because you can leave out parameter names in C++.
 
user1804599
CPython doesn't interpret Python code.
 
11:59 AM
@AndyProwl Syntax error.
 
user1804599
It compiles it to bytecode which is then interpreted.
 
user3010322
@AndyProwl You missed something there. :P
 

« first day (1604 days earlier)      last day (3345 days later) »