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12:00 PM
As I said, there are weird corner cases, where the language in question is actually inherently interpreted.
 
Uh...
Python is interpreted...
Or embedded
 
user1804599
No, there aren't.
 
But in general, you are confusing languages with their implementations.
 
user1804599
Your example of Perl is wrong.
 
I edited it btw
so reload and reread
 
12:00 PM
@райтфолд So you claim Perl is parsable?
 
@Rapptz I don't understand. What do you mean?
 
user1804599
No, but that's irrelevant.
 
user3010322
@AndyProwl But it's a good point, you're right. Though, if you fix the return type you can compile it (e.g., auto f () -> int () // perfectly okay to nail it down into a translation unit, right?
 
> C++ is a compiled language.
Bullshit
 
@AndyProwl auto void f()?
 
12:01 PM
You did not understand a word of what I was saying, did you?
 
How is this syntactically valid?
 
user1804599
You cannot parse Perl code since Perl code can modify itself at compile-time with source filters.
 
@Rapptz Yeah wtf is this
 
user3010322
Wait.
 
user3010322
Now I'm INSANELY curious.
 
user1804599
12:01 PM
Any file that starts with use …; could be a valid Perl program.
 
@Rapptz Yeah sorry auto f(). I failed at following messages
 
user3010322
auto f () -> int can that be made a compiled function (e.g., defined in a translation unit)?
 
Wtf did they have to add auto anyways?
 
@райтфолд Interesting.
 
@Rapptz The message of yours I did not understand was this:
6 mins ago, by Rapptz
@AndyProwl It's unconstrained!
 
user1804599
12:02 PM
Disregarding source filters Perl is context-sensitive so even then modules have to be imported.
 
user1804599
And you can do arbitrary computations to determine which modules to import.
 
Disregard it.
I'm going to bed.
I'll feel better in the morning afternoon.
 
user1804599
Hence you need to solve the halting problem to parse Perl.
 
See ya.
 
@ThePhD It was meant to be auto f(). Trailing return type would make it possible to define it in a separate function, yes. But C++14 return type deduction will exclude this possibility.
 
user3010322
12:03 PM
Awww.
 
user3010322
Feel better, buhbye!
 
@Rapptz Nite
 
@Rapptz Yeah have a nice nite
 
user1804599
BEGIN {
    if (rand(5)) require 'foo';
}

f; // bare word or subroutine call? depends on the random value!
 
12:03 PM
@райтфолд oh God
 
So in fact the "if I don't see template I assume I can put the definition in a different TU" argument is no longer valid after C++14
 
Because i'm about to post it on reddit
 
user1804599
The code in the BEGIN block is executed at parse-time.
 
> C++ is a compiled language.
Still there.
You did not fix a single thing.
 
reload
 
12:05 PM
And now those three points mean nothing.
"A means A, but also B, while B means B, while also A."
 
@Griwes That's not the point, though
 
What a mess
 
The point is that there are two ways to do it
 
user1804599
Well you could actually parse Perl given you can execute Perl code at parse-time.
 
You need to rewrite that section from scratch. Describe how compilation works, how interpreters work, stop saying anything about actual languages.
 
12:06 PM
@Puppy I think you should put your tuts back online.
 
user1804599
Similar to how you have to be able to execute constexpr functions in C++ in order to parse C++ code.
 
@Cinch Yes, I get that, but you started it horribly wrong, and then a horrible mess emerged.
 
user1804599
Good thing this is a problem in neither well-written Perl nor well-written C++ code.
 
Well what about the other section?
(Suddenly it's all quiet...)
 
user1804599
 
user1804599
I cannot decide.
 
user1804599
It's an undecidable problem!
 
I prefer the top one
 
user1804599
I could allow both.
 
I'm just wondering if the entire sequence is sufficient for newbies that want to understand C++
from 0.0 to 0.3
 
12:15 PM
it amuses me that you keep wanting to teach others things that you don't remotely understand.
 
user3010322
.....
 
user3010322
> k, integer, 48 bytes
 
user3010322
WHAT THE FUCK, R?
 
@Puppy Oh you're back! :)
 
user3010322
Why are my integers 48 freakin' BYTES?!
 
user3010322
12:16 PM
It's the number 10 for chrissakes!
 
user1804599
Yeah I'll go with allowing both.
 
yep
I have returned from playing Homeworld Remastered multiplayer
 
@Puppy That game is amazing
But did you read 0.3? or 0.2?
 
user1804599
What was that language called that had } but no { for delimiting blocks?
 
I have not played it sufficiently to make any determinations
 
12:17 PM
@Puppy The single-player is the only reason why the game is good
Multiplayer is not a factor compared to the story
It's the icing on the cake
 
I'm more of a multiplayer man than a single-player man
 
1
A: Does all error codes of WSASend() and WSARecv() means that the socket has disconnected?

Filip Roséen - refpThe Answer No, not all error codes is because of a disconnected socket. Elaboration I'm actually not sure how to answer this question without yelling out "No, read the documentation!". msdn.microsoft.com - Windows Sockets Error Codes As an example, WSAEINPROGRESS means that there's ano...

^ how is this not an appropriate answer to that (utterly stupid) question?
 
@Puppy Oh I know I used to play LoL
But the story is what makes it
 
@FilipRoséen-refp OP banned from MSDN? :)
 
@MartinJames haha, yeah - probably
 
12:21 PM
@Puppy Indeed he does not seem to care about understanding as much as he cares about teaching.
Jan 24 at 11:42, by Andy Prowl
You seem to be after some kind of wisdom that comes from years of experience and is subjective anyway, but without going through that experience
 
user1804599
Nobody wants to go through the experience of using C++ for years.
 
@райтфолд Which is why I'm writing the tutorial
I really don't care too much about programmng
I care about what I can do with it or helping others do stuff with it
 
@райтфолд Yeah, but then you should not want to teach C++
@Cinch lol, again
 
user1804599
It's very common that people who teach C++ have no idea about C++. :P
 
12:23 PM
@райтфолд Usually they don't admit that though, or they teach it because they have to
How can you help others if you don't understand things yourself
 
Hi, first time in a SO chatroom so I apologize beforehand for any errors. I've been programming in python and java for the better part of the last 2 and a half years and recently picked up JS. I reached a point where I wanted to explore more low level stuff and always been interested in c++ so I've been searching for good resources to read from(books, lecutres, etc). The way I intend to practice is by implementing data structures such as linked lists, tress, graphs etc.

Do you guys have any particular recommendations ?
 
user1804599
 
user1804599
You can learn about data structures all you want, but you cannot implement them in C++ without knowing C++.
 
So a books are the best way to get into the language ?
 
@Bhargav Apparently so
 
user1804599
12:25 PM
I don't know. I never learn programming languages through books.
 
I'm developing a tutorial for that right now but it's still in the early stages
 
user1804599
@StackedCrooked Sweeter.
 
rolls eyes
 
you don't want to read that dude's tutorial.
 
@Bhargav Here's my recent Tower of Hanoi clone that makes use of the basic C++ std::stack and such
 
12:25 PM
There, he found a student already
 
@райтфолд lol
 
4271
Q: The Definitive C++ Book Guide and List

grepsedawkThis question attempts to collect the few pearls among the dozens of bad C++ books that are published every year. Unlike many other programming languages, which are often picked up on the go from tutorials found on the Internet, few are able to quickly pick up C++ without studying a well-written...

Don't read any book that's not on the list.
 
Why don't you write tutorials on stuff you care about?
 
I already went through the list and was reading the reviews of accelerated c++ on amazon
 
12:26 PM
i made a silly "intelligent" hanoi solver once
 
@Bhargav Uh... have you used make before?
 
Nope, first time working with c++
 
user1804599
* sigil is silly. I'll go with % instead.
 
@Bhargav How about what operating system are you using?
 
@Cinch I mostly worked with python and java
OSX
 
12:28 PM
Does OSX come with make, guys?
 
I have cmake installed
 
@Blob Oh interesting
 
user1804599
Anyway.
 
@Bhargav cmake is not make
make is make
 
12:29 PM
@Cinch lol
 
Have you downloaded a compiler or run any programs?
 
Yeah a Hello world program using clang++
 
"guys I need to teach this dude stuff but I don't know it. Can you tell me, so I can teach him?"
2
 
user1804599
lol learning how to implement data structures like linked lists and trees and graphs using C++.
 
@Bhargav Well then you're good
go the console, put in "make"
does it work?
 
user3010322
12:30 PM
Wow
 
user3010322
Fuck R.
 
user3010322
It's a fucking hodgepodge language with a bunch of well-documented BULLSHIT ways to do things that don't make any fucking goddamn sense.
 
@Cinch But what does make have to do with learning the language though?
 
@Bhargav Like I said, I'll give you some code to go through
It's my recent classroom project for our C++ intro course
 
user3010322
There's absolutely no structure, no predictability, and PERFECTLY VALID CODE will just run like SHIT because WHY THE FUCK NOT.
 
12:31 PM
I make use of some pretty standard features for newbies so I'd say it's good
 
The towers of hanoi solver ?
 
@Bhargav yes
 
And I get a no target found message
 
@Bhargav well good, you have make
use git, get the repo, download my stuff
 
user1804599
@Bhargav Good. Here's already one C++ tip you'll thank me for forever: object creation syntax is like Python's, not like Java's. Pretend new doesn't exist.
2
 
12:31 PM
use "make -f makefile" on it
inside the directory, i mean
 
@райтфолд why what are the disadvantages of using new ?
@Cinch I understood, cloning the repo right now
 
@райтфолд Yeah why would you ignore new?
 
user1804599
You end up with memory leaks.
 
@Bhargav You create an object on the heap and risk leaking it.
 
@Blob Oh, I see, you mean the raw version
But smart pointers solve that.
 
12:33 PM
@Cinch smart pointers were added in c++11 right ?
 
Unless you use RAII, which you shouldn't bother with for now (just learn C++), you need to keep track of every possible exit point and make sure you free the memory there.
 
@Blob Formally
@Bhargav But you can do it in whatever you want
@Bhargav It was doable before they just standardized and made it a part of the standard library
 
Right now I want to learn the language
 
@Blob What the fuck are you smoking?
 
user1804599
@Blob RAII is a fundamental part of C++. You should bother with it.
 
12:34 PM
@Bhargav i.e. The Boost C++ libraries had it before C++ basically just stole it
 
"Hey guys, learn the language by learning outdated broken idioms that just make your programs shit!".
 
Dude doesn't even know C++ yet
 
user1804599
You are a moron hth.
 
@Blob Uh, new is pretty standard
 
all he's done so far is hello world
 
12:34 PM
@Cinch C++ had auto_ptr since C++98. Boost didn't invent smart pointers.
 
user1804599
@Blob Yes, so don't teach him things he doesn't need to know and that will only cause confusion, such as new and delete.
 
@Blob And you want him to step up from hello world into buffer overruns and memory leaks?
 
@Puppy Oh, really? I thought that was a '03 thing
 
@райтфолд i never encouraged that
 
user3010322
Now I remember why I never wanted to fuck around with R ever again.
 
user3010322
12:35 PM
Screw this bullshit language.
 
always use RAII for resource handling.
 
user1804599
R is terrible.
 
@райтфолд I never said he should
 
user3010322
And fuck the idiots that created it.
 
user1804599
We were forced to program in it in school.
 
12:35 PM
@Bhargav Well go here, basically:
pretty damn simple
 
I don't expect him to be able to learn RAII when he doesn't understand classes. Sure, he can still use smart pointers, but that's not learning RAII.
 
might have some outdated stuff but apparently C++ doesn't have great online resources
 
> Although this method is less explicit than using the "std::" prefix, it's generally considered safe and acceptable
fail
 
(which is why I'm writing one right now even though I'm a noob too)
 
burn it with fire right away.
oh wait, wrong directive.
ah, here's the right one.
> There's open debate about whether this solution is good practice or not.
fail.
 
12:37 PM
So I follow accelerated c++ and these resources right ?
 
@Puppy What are you talking about?
@Bhargav Honestly I've never really used a book
You learn the most by just doing.
 
user1804599
hey puppy the C API of libclang is stable right?
 
@Cinch This is in like, one of the first tutorials, describing using namespace std;.
@райтфолд As far as I know; but that's achieved by stripping a lot of useful stuff that the C++ API expresses.
 
user1804599
Nice.
 
oh, lovely
 
12:38 PM
@Cinch Yeah I know the reason I am looking into accelerated c++ is because I am already comfortable with a couple of other languages
 
@Puppy so you think that using using namespace std; is good?
 
you can find new, delete, C-strings, void*, function pointers, and virtual inheritance, all before std::vector.
 
@Bhargav No, I mean, just program
 
@Cinch No, it's been known for decades that it's a terrible practice.
 
@Puppy (and yet my school still teaches this)
 
12:39 PM
anybody who thinks that it's up for debate is an uninformed neanderthal.
 
@Puppy Sheesh, you're so hard, Puppy.
 
@Cinch most books do too
which is why you avoid everything not on the list
 
@Blob And this is why you should NOT read the book
 
@Cinch I'm sick of seeing people teaching other people C++ when the teachers don't know it and they just teach terrible everything.
like you.
 
@Puppy agreed. That's why I'm asking people like you who can help me.
 
12:40 PM
just for once the teacher should be someone who actually knows C++ and won't teach their students giant piles of shit.
 
user1804599
I should start a bakery and offer discounts for pitas for C++ programmers. I know they will buy many.
 
@Cinch You need more than a little help; you need like, three years of study at least.
 
@Puppy Well, who am I to decide what's right and wrong.
 
@Puppy exact reason why I came here for help
 
and probably more than that.
 
12:40 PM
@Puppy Well you keep insulting me and you don't really have substance to back it up
The insult to substance ratio is pretty <1
So how about you crush me with evidence
XD
 
I mentioned all of the terrible things in your tutorial subject list when you first posted it.
 
@Puppy Dude, read the actual thing
And the list is pretty freeform right now I didn't put too much effort into it
once again, start from 0.0 or wherever you left off
 
@Puppy It seems to me the guy dreams about adding himself to the count.
 
right; except you should be able to draw up a vastly superior list in three seconds.
> Compiled programs are translated directly into binary code that can be sent to your processor to be executed later, raw, and often very fast.
who needs bytecode or JITs?
or intermediate steps in interpreters?
or multi-level compilation?
 
// The using directive is acceptable for a small C++ program
using namespace std;
 
12:43 PM
or hell, even linkers.
 
love how he has to defend it
 
nobody needs any of that shit.
 
@Puppy ...
"Nobody" includes most of the popular programming world right now
It's good to put perspective into a pre-C++ piece
 
I see.
 
Puppy, it looks like you'll love my language.
 
12:44 PM
so we'll completely ignore the fact that the first step in interpreting pretty much any language entails compiling it to relevant bytecode or IR?
 
there's nothing hard to implement there
 
even JS and Python implementations do this.
and then we'll further ignore the fact that pretty much every JS implementation ever now JITs the JS code into native code.
 
@Puppy oh, good reminder
 
lol
 
and then we'll also ignore the fact that compilers need linkers to produce actual executables, so everybody using C, C++ and friends actually doesn't produce executables at all.
and then we'll also do our best to completely ignore things like native cross-compilers.
or virtual machines/emulators.
 
12:46 PM
@Puppy Virtual machines are in the 3rd bullet
@Puppy Linkers are not important when understanding the translation of code to machine code as a concept
 
@Cinch Python and JS use virtual machines as well.
 
These morons/s are really pissing me off:
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/28926051/issues-with-interrupt-handling
 
oh, not to mention shit like I dunno, emulating an ARM operating system on x64.
fact is, pretty much every program goes through the exact same steps to be executed; the only difference is when they're applied.
you can do fun things like interpret C++ using Clang if you want or libgccjit, which I have done.
 
@Puppy Ooh, interesting!
 
> First, Corona SDK is now FREE. Everyone using the Corona Simulator now gets the functionality that used to be included in Corona SDK Pro.
Second, we are soon going to support building Mac and Win32 desktop apps.
OMG OMG OMG
 
12:48 PM
@BartekBanachewicz Yeah this was on Reddit days ago
 
OMG OMG
@Cinch shaddap. omg
 
I'm voting to close this question as off-topic because a dup was posted 2 yours later, so either a sockpuppet or assignment dump. — Martin James 7 mins ago
> yours
> 2 yours later
 
Love2D just got a nice alternative or windows
or welp will get soon
 
> C and C++ currently can also compile to, besides machine code, something called assembly.
 
@BartekBanachewicz Also, hey, join the blog review party: compactcpp.wordpress.com
 
12:49 PM
I don't think you understand what machine code and assembly are.
let alone things like GIMPLE or LLVM IR.
or things like C++/CLI.
 
@Cinch probably sucks. no time now vOv
 
@Puppy Nope! Enlighten me!
 
@Cinch That would take years that I don't have spare.
 
> C++, A COMPILED LANGUAGE C++ is formerly a child of the C programming language–in fact, C++ used to be called “C with Classes.”
Still sucks, first for the reason already discussed, and second for even mentioning "C with Classes".
 
12:50 PM
C++ and C with Classes are completely different languages.
 
get rid of every reference to C
 
you may as well suggest that humans and dogs are the same animal because they have some shared ancestors.
 
Also what kind of statement is "is formerly a child of".
 
@Puppy "In 1983, it was renamed from C with Classes to C++"
 
@Puppy Meh - fed Bailey but not walked him yet. It's time for the field:(
 
@Cinch Ten million years ago, humans split from dogs. That doesn't make them the same animal.
 
10 million? Is that number accurate?
it seems far too little
 
it's probably a lot more.
 
Stroustrup said that C++ was C with classes on some point on his website
 
you're missing the key point here.
was.
is not anymore and hasn't been since before you were born.
 
12:53 PM
@Cinch It's a completely irrelevant, since the term was warped since.
 
@Griwes I know, reload and rerad
@Puppy And how old are you?
 
I don't have time to keep reloading.
 
You're going to use age as a factor with me?
 
I'm exhausted.
Hi.
 
Also I don't think we need your "resource" for... anything.
 
12:54 PM
@Griwes Well nobody does
It's if they want
But I would like to improve it to the point where it's good
 
That makes no sense.
There is no point in doing that.
The world doesn't need any more C++ tutorials.
Or whatever that is meant to be.
 
@Griwes But according to other people they suck.
 
We have heaps of books to refer to beginners, so... vOv
 
@Griwes And yet somehow the classmates at my uni are lost?
 
@Cinch Just about old enough. Barely. In fact, they might even have split before I was born.
 
12:55 PM
@Cinch Exactly! Tutorials for this language suck. You are not going to make it better.
You are going to make another crappy one.
 
That's not true.
@Griwes That's like saying education is never going to get better
 
That's why we consistently say "get a fucking book" instead of reading tutorials.
 
only way to improve it is to let only the experts teach. you're still a student.
 
Don't get them started on education.
 
@Cinch Books. Books are better than whatever you are trying to do. Well, some.
 
12:57 PM
I bought The Joy of Sex recently. Does that count as "a fucking book"?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I am all for education and I am all for improving it; it's sort of my life mission right now
 
Usually, when someone starts writing a tutorial for something he didn't create or participate in, it is crap.
@Cinch You have to learn before you can improve education.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Brave New World has an orgy and its still considered an essential classic for some high school classrooms
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes i think "fucking book" refers exclusively to the Kama Sutra
 
Trying to improve education before being an expect at it makes it worse.
 
12:57 PM
@Griwes What more do I need to learn? Names, concepts, feed me Seymour, feed me.
 
Markdown cannot into markdown.
 
@Blob the two are at a fundamental level the same.
 
Or I cannot. lol
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes i haven't read either; i wouldn't know
 
@Cinch Let's start from "pretty much no language is inherently compiled or interpreted".
 
12:58 PM
@Griwes I never explicitly said that
(right?)
 
@Cinch you don't need to learn the concepts, you need experience with them
 
"C++ is a compiled language."
 
you can't get experience from asking a bunch of random people what to include in your tutorial
 

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