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3:00 PM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit We are isolated, it's our curse and blessing
 
@райтфолд wrong again
 
We have an Asian majority here
 
@Cinch Way of being considered in programming languages? That's not a matter of discrimination :P
 
user1804599
Better isolated than insulated.
 
Asian master race
 
3:00 PM
@райтфолд having a proper jalf moment there
 
@райтфолд It's funny because "insulated" puns on "insular"
 
I love Hawaii because it is beautiful and has beautiful people but...
We're kind of too isolated in a way
 
user1804599
Alaska ftw.
 
So many people here would rather surf and take drugs than actually do stuff
 
Shame you don't have a light-speed connection to the rest of the world. Perhaps some kind of information-sharing system.
 
3:01 PM
@Cinch 2000mi of ocean does that to a state
 
@Cinch That is doing stuff
 
@Mgetz Ironically, we are the most central to the Pacific side of operations for the military
 
@Mgetz to a community*
the fact that it is an American state is irrelevant
 
We are also the host site for the APEC summit
 
@Cinch Well, it's hard to become not kinda isolated staying in the middle of the pacific ocean.
 
user1804599
3:02 PM
> If you have motivation you can achieve anything.
 
user1804599
> If you have motivation
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit No, I have to disagree, Pearl Harbor and a huge military presense is here.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit eh... we have mountains here... they can be surprisingly isolating
 
user1804599
Perl Harhar
 
@Cinch How is that disagreeing?
@Mgetz What does that have to do with my observation
 
3:03 PM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit If it weren't an American state things might be different
 
@Mgetz @Mgetz Good point. Same here BTW ;-)
 
@Cinch Oh yes of course. Because only American communities have a military.
 
Imagine if it were still a sovereign state?
 
If it weren't American it wouldn't be free and/or developed. (Just look at the non-American world)
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit as is my custom: absolutely nothing
 
user1804599
3:03 PM
There are even mountains in the Netherlands.
 
@Cinch I just don't see what Pearl Harbour has to do with the isolation of the island
 
user1804599
And volcanos.
 
yay non-sequitur
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Pearl Harbor is Pacific Command for the U.S.
 
@ParkYoung-Bae ikr what a fucking mess
@Cinch Yes, I know what it is. I don't see what it has to do with the isolation of the island.
 
3:04 PM
@Cinch technically 6th fleet is out of san diego
and 7th fleet is out of yokohama
 
@Cinch It would be probably much harder to save your current life style. Look at those poor pitcairn folks :-P ...
 
8th fleet is out of your yank arse
 
lol but eh
Hawaii is isolated and not at the same time
 
makes perfect sense
 
user1804599
I should move to the Caribbean. Better weather, fewer laws and the same language.
 
3:05 PM
well, I'm hungry (but not, at the same time)
 
We are host to countless tourists from the world and important Asia-America relations
 
so I'm going to go put the oven on (but also not)
brb (not brb)
 
The good thing about being an island is that muslims have a harder time getting there. Oh, wait, UK.
 
@ParkYoung-Bae lol
 
user1804599
@ParkYoung-Bae That's an ISland.
 
3:07 PM
@райтфолд Nice one
 
Anyways why is there no GCC 4.9 for MinGW yet?
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Same considerations, but I got no really good ideas actually :)
 
user1804599
It's a mystery.
 
user1804599
And a misery.
 
user1804599
Misery and Sorrow Visual C++ compiler.
 
3:09 PM
@ParkYoung-Bae what
 
@райтфолд Agreed! (as rarely)
 
@райтфолд What's Visual C++? Is that a new form of cancer?
 
an old form of cancer
 
Hasn't it been cured already?
 
@Cinch That would be sharia
 
3:10 PM
Lol i'm just joking but lol
@ParkYoung-Bae Wow, lol
 
@Cinch It's an old form of cancer.
 
Come on flaggot, take the bait
 
user1804599
@ParkYoung-Bae According to sharia I should be stoned. Good thing I'm Dutch.
 
I'm suggesting GCC MinGW 4.8 for my tutorial
 
@райтфолд Eh me too. Except I'm not Dutch!
Nobody's perfect rite
 
user1804599
3:11 PM
I am.
 
No, you're Dutch
 
@ParkYoung-Bae Just accusing all muslims is certainly not correct!
 
user1804599
Neither is killing all non-muslims.
 
@πάνταῥεῖ Would accusing all of them minus one be correct?
 
@ParkYoung-Bae Certainly not, racist!
 
user1804599
3:13 PM
Baka Harem.
 
user1804599
C++ master race.
 
@πάνταῥεῖ Just so you know I AM muslim and therefore I think I am allowed to say whatever I want on this topic.
 
user1804599
I love C++. It's a great language.
 
user1804599
Better than filthy rusty immitations.
 
Guys.
Calm down.
 
user1804599
3:14 PM
@ParkYoung-Bae No, you're Asian.
 
If you want to have a disgusting anti-Islam hate speech rant, do it someplace else.
 
user1804599
You can have only one race.
 
I don't see your name in italics. Therefore, no.
 
@ParkYoung-Bae Just so you know I AM buddhist, and may say even more anything and whatever I like about this topic.
 
@πάνταῥεῖ Well what can I say, nobody's perfect.
 
3:15 PM
I am a human, so I can say anything about anything human.
 
user1804599
You're not human.
 
user1804599
You're a robot.
 
Ah, I see. So you only act like a decent human being when asked to by someone who can punish you for not doing so. Interesting.
 
@Lysergia25 Truly valid point!
 
user1804599
> I take care of servers running on Debian and Slackware, workstations running Debian/KDE and a personal Arch Linux box.
 
3:16 PM
noraj pls
 
user1804599
Only robots do that.
 
Robot parents
 
Actually I'm Patrick Volkerding. No one else actually uses Slackware.
 
user3010322
Question.
 
user3010322
Does Python index from 0 or 1?
 
3:19 PM
Yes, it does.
 
@ThePhD 0
 
user3010322
Mmm.
 
user3010322
R is the only language I use so far that indexes from 1.
 
user3010322
Fuck R.
 
user3010322
3:22 PM
Next time I have to do something like this, I'm using fucking Python.
 
user3010322
Fuck R and all its bullshit.
 
Dude... Aren't you the one working on a Lua wrapper for like, a year?
And you haven't noticed Lua indexes from 1 too?
 
@ParkYoung-Bae I thought it was 0
 
user1804599
Perl indexes from $[.
 
user1804599
Perl ftw.
 
3:25 PM
lua indexes from 1?
what?
i always used ipairs or whatever it was
 
user3010322
@Cinch It's 1, or the stack indices start with 1.
 
user3010322
@ParkYoung-Bae Yeah, but I haven't looped in lua ever. :l
 
@ThePhD Stay away from Fortran (though indexing from 1 is only one of many reasons to do that).
 
user3010322
So using a traditional for loop is slow
 
user3010322
And it's discouraged in R
 
user3010322
3:33 PM
And then they have these shitty expanding / unexpanding functions that are supposed to do it "properly"
 
user3010322
But the fuck if they can document the functionality in a way that makes sense.
 
user3010322
All the types just take fucking WHATEVER and just WELL I SURE HOPE THIS IS THE RIGHT THING.
 
@ThePhD Obviously you really want APL (or J, if you're addicted to standard keyboards).
 
It don't mean a thing, if you ain't got that swing.
 
user1804599
@ThePhD sounds like Python.
 
3:48 PM
@райтфолд Sounds like crap.
 
user1804599
That's what I just said.
 
@райтфолд OK, true:)
Interpreted shit who cares if indexing from 0 or 1?
 
One day, I am already on section 1.0!
Opinions?
Any mistakes?
 
> std::cout << "Hello World!" << std::endl;
Is that on purpose?
 
3:56 PM
@BaummitAugen fixed, just reload
 
user1804599
> 15 Years In Environment Of Constant Fear Somehow Fails To Rehabilitate Prisoner
 
> I will assume you are using Windows 7 or 8.1.
epic fail.
and then recommending MinGW and Code::Blocks/NP++?
system environment variable changing?
 
I don't care about C++ tutorials, there is worse. I did not set the microwave correctly and our lamb chops are still frozen solid:(
 
compile on the command line without even a script to do it for you?
what the fuck are you smoking?
 
@Puppy calm down
the makefile will come in 1.1 or 1.2
 
3:59 PM
this is the Google Style Guide of C++ tutorials.
 
People type stuff in?
 
user1804599
@Cinch the body of the main function is as well-indented as the code of a noob.
 
I mean, other than 'build'?
 
@Cinch Does it come with recommending tools worth using, recommending using them in a useful way, and not making unwarranted assumptions?
 
..or hitting F5?
 
4:00 PM
> //Then, flush the buffer, ensuring that it all outputs
//to the screen.
 
@Puppy it'll be a regular makefile
 
Why explicitly flush the buffer?
 
so that's a "no", then.
 
@Blob It's already flushed as a part of std::endl;
 
@Cinch that's my question
why?
 
4:00 PM
@Puppy Any systems to recommend?
@Blob It's just how it is.
 
user1804599
Use Perl to generate a file named build.ninja. Then invoke ninja.
 
sure
 
It's a pretty standard Hello World program
 
@райтфолд OMG..
 
@Cinch i didn't read the whole thing but i doubt you introduced what buffers are that early
std::cout << "Hello, World!\n"; is my standard hello world
 
4:01 PM
@Blob Nope, I don't expect them to know
 
it's called, "Let the user set up their own build environment as they see fit", and, "Don't make unwarranted assumptions about their platform and requirements", and, "If you're going to assume Windows you may as well recommend the only vaguely decent (relatively) toolchain available"
 
@Puppy This is for people that have not used C++ before.
THis is for people that will not be able to make informed decisions about C++
and therefore, I am making it for them so they can just learn
 
which is why it's a total joke that you would recommend using MinGW, Code::Blocks and Notepad++.
 
@Puppy what do you recommend?
 
@Cinch: I could make another GIF, this time for ignoring Twatty, but I think you get the point. :)
 
user1804599
4:03 PM
Vim and clang.
 
the only toolchain on Windows worth actually using is VS.
 
/cc @R.MartinhoFernandes
 
not because VS is good, but because the others are somehow so much worse.
 
@Puppy I refuse to use VS on Windows anyways
 
Total nonsense.
 
4:03 PM
well, that's your insanity and not one you need to propagate
 
I know VS is the best C++ IDE for C++
 
@Puppy Oh the irony
 
mostly due to lack of competition
 
user1804599
For the poor fuckers doomed to be on Windows, install Vagrant and a VM with Linux.
 
aka hypocrisy
 
4:04 PM
I'd rather not use Windows-proprietary software period
 
user1804599
Then use clang in that.
 
@райтфолд I've survived so far without VS
 
well, most people who just want to learn C++ aren't going to give three shits about er mah gerd the freedoms
they don't have to pay for VS and it's the best tool available so they'll go with that
 
@Puppy They will care once they need to start looking at a cross-language, cross-platform IDE
 
@Cinch You make it sound like "so far" is a long distance.
 
user1804599
4:05 PM
@Cinch So tell them to use Vim.
 
@райтфолд Vim is too hard to learn to use initally
 
@Cinch Which may well arrive approximately never, and once they are capable enough to undertake something like that, they can do for themselves.
 
They use vim at my college
 
user1804599
The best IDE is Vim, Z shell and coreutils.
 
Nobody can use vim.
 
user1804599
4:05 PM
At my college we used whatever the fuck we wanted.
 
It's so unproductive without good direction
@райтфолд At my college they basically force feed you vim
Nobody likes it
People have already switched to sublime
They use the remote server to compile
 
@Cinch Yeah, well, my college had stupid parking restrictions. There's always a downside.
 
user1804599
@Cinch lol
 
@райтфолд ikr
I've done the same thing in the tutorial for them
And I told them to ignore Code::Blocks anyways
Code::Blocks, to me, is the easiest IDE to set up that's not Windows, at least for C++
It comes with MinGW anyways and it's a one-button build
 
4:08 PM
Everything is a one-button build.
 
No issues with console emulation like in Eclipse
 
@Cinch sudo apt-get install g++?
 
One-button build is not a feature.
 
@Blob I am not assuming Linux
 
user1804599
I have a one-button build-and-test that's called "save file".
 
4:08 PM
If your development environment boasts that as a feature, it probably sucks.
 
It also doesn't have the case where we encounter a program "not running" when it just doesn't stop
 
user1804599
With autosave it's even a zero-button build.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes This is off the top of my head anyways
 
@Cinch Who the fuck needs console emulation? Why are devs still using a UI from the 60's?
 
@MartinJames ...Eclipse uses it and it's terrible
 
user1804599
4:09 PM
File system watch ftw.
 
I would recommend Eclipse if it's C++ support wasn't so bad.
 
I would recommend Eclipse if.. actually, no.
 
VS is the best not because it's good but because all the rest are somehow so much worse.
 
But I must also mention that doesn't MSVC use some special headers that do not exist in other environments by default?
 
no.
 
4:10 PM
stdafx.h?
 
MSVC does not use it.
 
^^ what @puppy said.
 
it pregenerates it in one of the project templates, which uses it.
that's a different thing.
 
@Cinch That does not exist in MSVC's environment either.
 
4:11 PM
right
 
Hm.
VC does seem like a better choice... but...
eh.
 
the only thing special about stdafx.h is that it's pre-generated for you, and pre-generating things is hardly unique.
 
And it's empty.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes It's also a mechanism that's not easy to explain to a beginner should they encounter it.
Bah, w/e
 
you don't need to explain it.
just tell them to use the empty project template.
 
4:13 PM
@Puppy I'd rather have people understand the command line so that it becomes better when they need to include files and start linking
Then, when it gets too much, introduce IDEs and scripts when it makes sense
It allows the programmer to understand why such tools are necessary
it is a very organic learning flow
 
@Cinch You mean 'initially'
 
which is completely irrelevant.
they'll discover why it's necessary in their own sweet time if they are curious.
 
@Cinch It doesn't because if they were not necessary, they would be the tools.
 
otherwise, all that matters is that it is necessary.
 
The only situation when they're not necessary is when the existing tools are already them.
 
4:14 PM
What build systems do you use?
 
Why piss about with command-line tools if someone has already found a way of driving it from an IDE?
 
I know only of Boot.Build, CMake, make, and IDE's pre-made ways
 
@Cinch By doing this you will get the smart students asking why the other tools are necessary, not the IDE.
 
personally, I use premake into MSBuild or make for Wide, but I also build shit with cmake and boost.build.
 
I hit F5
 
4:15 PM
and they're universally terrible.
 
@MartinJames F9 here.
 
1
A: Audio slider for chat pings

reneAs this feature request is still open we have to assume that the 6 to 8 weeks planning was a little bit to ambitious (or something else came up). Until this feature gets added to the official code-base you can use the following userscript to enhance your sound experience while chatting: // ==U...

 
CMake is a nice thing I think in theory but then they had to invent their own shitty DSL to drive it.
 
Someone made a script to do my feature request \o/
 
Premake is a nice meta-generator in a nice environment but it's only about a third implemented.
make is just ... well, it's make, nuff said.
Boost.Build is just shit.
 
4:16 PM
@Puppy And its EDSL is crap.
No scoping is horrible.
 
not a huge fan of Premake's EDSL.
they could have used Lua's in-built data declarations to do it which would have been far superior.
still better than make or cmake, though.
 
So there isn't a really nice clean alternative, then.
Other than using IDE's
 
MSBuild is, well, I've never really had to do anything much with MSBuild, which I think is a good start for a build system.
 
user1804599
My C++ build system tends to be clang++ src/**/*.cpp … until it gets too slow and I switch to Perl to generate a Ninja configuration file.
 
lol the flag
 
4:22 PM
@райтфолд Lol I should make a C++ too to craft a text file to copy and paste
or maybe a Lua program?
 
If you have a problem with my message above you can bring it up with me.
 
If you don't bring it up with me you'll accomplish nothing.
Sep 10 '13 at 20:23, by R. Martinho Fernandes
I wanna live in a castle built of your agony and I wanna crumble it with an axe to your carotid arthery.
 
what movie have you guys watched recently?
 
user1804599
> This user has been automatically suspended for posting inappropriate content and cannot chat for 29 minutes.
 
user1804599
4:25 PM
fail
 
what'd he post?
 
@Blob ask him 28 minutes later
 
30 min ban seems harsh..
unless he was insulting Vim
 
something something throat slash or wtv
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Sorry robot, it was just too tempting.
I owe you a 30 minutes ban.
 
user1804599
4:29 PM
30 minutes is nothing.
 
user1804599
Gordon banned me for 24 hours for quoting /b/.
 
He'll probably ban me for life, when he comes back.
 
Anyway, which movie you guys have watched recently?
 
how to eat too much, by puppy
 
@YourFriend i watched "Free to Play" (by Valve) a week or so ago
no point hosting that in your website, though. it's free to watch.
 
4:34 PM
> arthery
@райтфолд who?
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit robot
 
jesus robot what
y
 
i missed it :|
 
9 mins ago, by Borgleader
something something throat slash or wtv
 
9 mins ago, by Jefffrey
@R.MartinhoFernandes Sorry robot, it was just too tempting.
 
4:38 PM
oh right & jeffffffffffreys a dick
:P
 
I kinda am.
 
@Jefffrey Yes I got that part
 
4:54 PM
Aaaand, see you later guys.
 
welcome back robot
bye jeffrey
 
look @Jefffrey leaving right as robot comes back
wuss
 
No, I meant that I was going on a forced vacation.
 
@room owners: rename to GPSL<C++> please
by popular request
 
@Jefffrey 'forced vacation' - you've been fired?
 
4:58 PM
@MartinJames "banned" would be the term
 
@Blob lol
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3
@Blob dont tell me what i cant do
 

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