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10:00 AM
@xslr ah not a problem, it's just very hard to talk about things at such an abstract level.
 
my school sucked, but that doesn't matter much because as a software dev you need to self-educate anyway
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes lol; life, a prolonged exercise in bad decision making
 
@thecoshman I appreciate your and the rest of the loungers' effort :) I feel I gotta implement something to get a better idea of the issues.
 
No way, you're supposed to feel abused or something. Not grateful. Kids these days.
 
gotta get going. catch you later ^^
 
10:05 AM
@Stacked I don't think I'll get the degree. At least now.
Like you know, people cheer when they finish their education
I'm so tortured that I would just snap the piece of paper from the damned hand and walk away without a word
I am not sure if that's how graduation is supposed to look like
 
Or a mature adult
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes ... do... do you need someone to sneak into your room and grope you at night?
 
JBL
My experience with graduating: "Now I can bullshit people because a paper says I'm an engineer. Yup, that's all".
 
@BartekBanachewicz You get a piece of paper and companies that didn't want to hire you suddenly want to invite you for an inverview just to tell you to get experience. Or at least that's how I imagine it.
 
I wore a funny hat of graduation :)
 
10:09 AM
Yeah so fuck those companies right
I mean seriously
 
JBL
@Griwes Quite accurate.
 
@thecoshman That's creepy given that you'll be sleeping on my sofa.
 
guess now he'll be sleeping on your porch :p
 
Xeo
@Griwes the whole hiring / experience / degree stuff is utterly borked anyways, IMO. there are plenty of people with a degree who don't know anything, and vice-versa.
 
@JBL Doesn't work. You need Ph.D.s for that.
 
JBL
10:11 AM
@R.MartinhoFernandes It's the next level.
 
@Xeo Thank you, captain.
 
Xeo
@Griwes since I'm taking opioid-based painkillers now, I can just blame all everything on those
quite convenient, in a way
I have a feeling they aren't quite working as advertised, though. I still feel leg pain.
 
JBL
Why is "borked" or "b0rked" a thing? (Genuinely asking :/)
 
Because someone borked "broken".
 
JBL
10:15 AM
Ok I admit I laughed.
But meh.
 
Never substitute letters by digits
 
JBL
^
 
@CatPlusPlus h4x0r
 
JBL
It's t3rrible.
 
t3rr1bl3
 
10:18 AM
Goddammit Qt
Protip: QProcess is borked
 
> Lambert has profound myopia and cannot see without his glasses. Because he cannot wear contact lenses, he is often forced to act while virtually blind. This has led to injuries while performing his own stunts without glasses. His myopia is often credited as being part of his appeal, by giving his stare a peculiar charm.
Why the fuck would anyone perform their own stunts while blind?
 
user1804599
@melak47 string(vec.begin(), vec.end()) would be faster in theory.
 
@rightfold because it doesn't have to scan for \0? :)
 
user1804599
:D
 
@Xeo that'd be a reason to stop fucking requiring a degree, but apparently people are too dumb to notice
 
10:25 AM
You need to get through HR drones
 
@Xeo "years of experience" is the dumbest measure of them all.
@BartekBanachewicz I actually sent someone in SE SO careers a message telling them I don't want the job but have the GPA and I think that requiring a degree like they do is stupid once. Got a reply too.
 
@BartekBanachewicz Is the proportion of people that are worth hiring from the without-a-degree population worth the extra trouble?
 
> You are totally right and we are aware we might be missing some very bright people because of it. However, statistically we found better match to what we're looking for when using these requirements - and so to save us the time in the "common case", we decided to add this criteria.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Who?
 
@CatPlusPlus Buzzwords work best for that IMHO
"Web technologies, design, agile, C/C++, distributed"
 
10:27 AM
@wilx Christopher Lambert. Played Connor MacLeod in The Highlander, and Lord Raiden in Mortal Kombat.
 
user1804599
Hardcore distributed programming in C++.
 
JBL
Haha, "C/C++".
 
I shit you not.
 
@BartekBanachewicz "I have 15 years of experience on the Amazon and Google clouds writing SaaS using Web 3.0 technology and a NoSQL database."
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Oh, interesting.
 
10:28 AM
@BenjaminGruenbaum yep
 
user1804599
@BenjaminGruenbaum 15 years of experience with Google.
 
JBL
I know, I've seen it myself a few times already
 
bonus points for using words that look hard and they don't really understand
 
@wilx It explains a lot IMO.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Like what?
 
10:29 AM
Have you ever watched any of those movies?
 
@BartekBanachewicz it's tricky, they have to know them and think they understand them but not understand them at all.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum like "scalability", "security", etc
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Sure, all of them.
 
JBL
"Experienced C++ developer with strong optimization skills" -> Reality: uses -O3. Teehee
 
10:29 AM
His characters always look awkward as fuck.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum yeah and that too
 
Now his weird stares make total sense.
 
Heh.
 
The worst ones are people that are looking for "JavaScript Ninjas"
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes what extra trouble would not checking for a degree be?
 
10:29 AM
@R.MartinhoFernandes I think that it is.
@ArneMertz the fact that you will interview more idiots
 
@ArneMertz The extra trouble here is interviewing more people you don't want to hire.
 
Or "JavaScript Hackers". For some reason people think they should read an article on w3schools and then step right into an interview pretending to be experts and shit.
 
@BartekBanachewicz It was a rhetorical question.
(Show stats)
 
because the point they are trying to make is that "90% of people with degrees are idiots, but 95% of total people are idiots"
 
It's clearly not.
 
10:31 AM
That reminds me that I have to pick up my diploma and shit
 
JBL
@BenjaminGruenbaum Or "Guru". While really good and intelligent people don't want to be "guru"s :/
 
fuck you
 
If that was the point they wanted to make, they would not give it such a weight.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes hm?
 
Also I signed up for MSc because I hate myself
4
 
10:31 AM
@CatPlusPlus ahahahaha
ahahhahahaa LMAO
oh god that's the bestest thing I've read today
 
Why would they be trying to make a point at all? Do you usually interview job candidates to make a point? :|
 
If they think it a worthy requirement, they clearly think the with-a-degree population has a lot less idiots.
 
No, you signed up for MSc because you are lazy
4
lazy bums like to stay in uni
 
right, they think so.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes No, a lot more non-idiots is what they're interested in
 
10:32 AM
@R.MartinhoFernandes I know :D
 
And with those numbers, the with-degree population has twice as many of those :)
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes ok, yes. Then they should not drop the requirements but change them. The "having a degree" filter is flawed in both directions, so it should be replaced by a better fitting filter.
 
@CatPlusPlus LOL!
 
I have lazy bum friends who stayed in uni for years doing too many degrees
 
@ArneMertz Like what. "Have a degree" is clearly too coarse, but apparently has good enough RoI.
 
10:33 AM
@CatPlusPlus good job on the self loathing
 
I myself have 2 degrees & 1 master because studying is obviously something you do when you have nothing else better to do
& my professor grandpa really want us to get PhDs too
 
@sudorm-rfTelkitty That doesn't even make sense
 
In order to stay in uni, all you have to do is pass exams ... there are whole lots of things to worry about once you have started working full time
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes @Anne like "Either a degree or 3 years of experience more"
sounds reasonable for me.
not that a degree is worth 3 years of experience
 
11 mins ago, by Benjamin Gruenbaum
@Xeo "years of experience" is the dumbest measure of them all.
 
10:37 AM
@BartekBanachewicz yes, for example.
 
Greeks and Trojans.
 
I have 7 years of experience slacking off.
 
@BartekBanachewicz yeah - the bad part is that the guys having a degree sometimes think its worth 5-10 years of experience
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes eh, but it's just one of the criterias. That's why it's dumb to completely shut off everyone w/o a degree; there's just so many other important things.
@ArneMertz lol 10. Maybe some dumbass PhD would say that
lol 10 lol (for real) lol
 
You get paid for doing PhD
 
10:39 AM
@BartekBanachewicz Zirak put it nicely at one point. I can play "Marry Had a Little Lamb" on the piano every day for 3 hours for 10 years - that wouldn't make me a great pianist.
 
I've heard about 6k/mo figures
So there you go
 
@CatPlusPlus #lolnope
 
Well do you know any PhDs
Because I do :v
 
@StackedCrooked sorry to bother you, but coliru is being difficult. The "compile&run" button isn't doing anything :-(
 
@BartekBanachewicz well when I had some 4 years of experience at work and some more years of experience doing stuff @home we had a young PhD fresh from college like "You only got a diploma in Physics, so what do you know of CS?"
 
10:41 AM
@CatPlusPlus Maybe it works differently in your region
 
Lounge is a bug tracker!
 
You're working for the uni when doing PhD
 
dream job
 
We have a bugtracker, people are just lazy
And bad at instructions
 
@CatPlusPlus not always. I work for the Flemish government, but all my work is property of the uni.
 
10:42 AM
@CatPlusPlus Oh, btw, apparently I can't import YouTrack data from the interface. It has to be with some Python scripts or something
 
Yeah, there's a script
 
If you make me an admin account on yours I'll import your stuff later
 
I'll do that when I get home.
 
@BartekBanachewicz yep. Luckily they didn't have the "no degree, no hire" policy there ;-)
 
10:45 AM
Anyway, why do you want to work at such dumb places?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes money vOv
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes like which now?
 
@CatPlusPlus paychecks here are ~ 8K NiS which is ~2.3K USD, on top of that you usually work ~2.5 days a week (either at a high tech job or teaching) so you get around 3.5K USD a month.
 
The ones you're complaining about.
 
It also highly depends on where you work too.
 
10:46 AM
@R.MartinhoFernandes well one is Intel. The other is Google.
So yeah well those aren't very well known or something but have nice logos
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes that they're demanding degrees does not make them generally dumb places
 
being real though, I don't give a fuck.
 
You're complaining that Intel and Google filter their applications too much?
I think they have big enough HR departments as is.
 
thing is I wouldn't be technically an outside hire
 
10:47 AM
(Google has contacted me several times and I don't have a degree, btw)
 
so that's more a stupid policy more than HR overwhelming
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes
 
Fuck off.
2
 
anyway I'm having one call tomorrow and one on monday
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Well, if Google does have a "no degree, no hire" policy, they could just take you on as an external contractor. No biggie.
 
10:49 AM
so if it goes well I'm going to Ireland @thecoshman :P
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes same here. But when I told them I was maybe interested but did not have a degree, they told me like "well, I'll see if we have something for you then, we'll contact you in the next three days..."
 
eh but it's fucking lame
I will probably pass everything else
 
@ArneMertz On all three or four occasions I was the one that put an end to it.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes vOv you are
 
so literally this one decision of her fucked me totally
 
10:52 AM
In fact, taking on devs as short-term contractors is as good a method as I know of to filter out unsuitable potential employees. If they're shit, just don't renew. If they're brilliant, give 'em a permanent job offer.
 
@thecoshman Well fuck it. Be special, whatever the hell that means.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes you said that yourself you shouldn't be taken as a representative example
because "luck" or someshit.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes you are the exception. "We don't hire people with out degrees... but we'll take you" etc.
 
@BartekBanachewicz intel accepts everyone here.
 
@thecoshman It just goes to show they don't just do a dumb filter and call it a day.
 
10:53 AM
@BenjaminGruenbaum for full time positions?
 
One counter-example is a perfectly valid method of proof of non-universality.
 
@BartekBanachewicz yeah.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes in your case, it is :P
 
It's called a "witness".
 
They let you do shitty stuff like drivers, or verification, or simulating state machines. It's that place people without programming experience go to.
 
10:54 AM
In mathematical logic, a witness is a specific value t to be substituted for variable x of an existential statement of the form ∃x φ(x) such that φ(t) is true. Examples For example, a theory T of arithmetic is said to be inconsistent if there exists a proof in T of the formula "0=1". The formula I(T), which says that T is inconsistent, is thus an existential formula. A witness for the inconsistency of T is a particular proof of "0 = 1" in T. Boolos, Burgess, and Jeffrey (2002:81) define the notion of a witness with the example, in which S is an n-place relation on natural nu...
 
A.o.t. "wittyness"
 
If Google/whatever only take people with degrees, how do they get the water-coolers replenished?
 
even if you work for google, it still just going to be a job like every other
you will never get rich unless you are on top
it means you are more likely to get hired by others and more likely to get a better pay
but seriously 50k is really so very different than 150k in regards to become really rich??
 
@MartinJames most programmers I know don't have 'getting rich' on the top of their list.
 
@MartinJames 'sports degrees'
 
10:56 AM
@BenjaminGruenbaum Why are drivers shitty?
 
They want to make enough money to not worry about it, have some free time and do something interesting.
 
..or should I say 'why is working on drivers shitty', (obviously, there are shitty drivers).
 
@MartinJames the drivers are not shitty, working on drivers in intel is a pretty uninteresting job imo.
 
lol if you get paid under $150k a year and not invest wisely then you will have to end up working your entire life
 
Who the fuck cares.
 
10:58 AM
eventually you have to work for the sake of money
 
You repeat yourself a lot working as a small cog in a giant corporation - you don't make that many interesting design decisions (they get dictated from the higher ups).
 
work for the sake of like programming wears off very quickly
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum I find drivers quite challenging.
 
@sudorm-rfTelkitty not for me. I actually like it, fuck me - right?
 
I will wait until you reach 30 then ask you the same question again
 
10:59 AM
@MartinJames I said imo. I've talked to several people in Intel (like I said - it's the go to place for people who're in my university) and saw what they do. I found it very boring but like you said - some of them really like it.
 
then you still have another 30 years of miserable life ahead of you
 
@sudorm-rfTelkitty or for the sake of living
 
@sudorm-rfTelkitty I already went through that crisis. Even considered going to study medicine. My life isn't miserable - I do however pick workplaces a lot more carefully than before.
 
@sudorm-rfTelkitty How old are you?
 
@sudorm-rfTelkitty lol. some people don't conflate happiness with money all that often
 
11:01 AM
@BenjaminGruenbaum Luckily, we're all different. I find single-app, single-threaded one-line-after-another stuff boring. I prefer networked systems development.
 
money can not buy happiness, but if you are intelligent enough, it can get you freedom :D
 
For example - I try to stick to startups right now. I get to do a lot more different things and learn new technologies all the time. Fields I had no experience with before.
 
 
@MartinJames fwiw I find single app single threaded line after line stuff pretty boring too unless there is a lot of interesting algorithmics involved :) That's not what I do at all. If you like your work on drivers (and I have met some people at intel that did like their work on drivers, they were not the majority but they were there for sure) that's good :)
 
Hehe - I just spotted Rapptz starboard re. SE Beer:)
 
11:03 AM
I don't care about money all that much, but I LOVE freedom. Not every can be free if they have a lot of money (because they are slaves to money), but I am glad am not one of those :p
 
@sudorm-rfTelkitty Yeah, the fact that you keep bringing money into conversations all the time is clear indication that you don't care about money at all.
5
 
I don't care about money, I just want lots of it
 
I did have a postgrad in Finance ~_~ (Master of Business, major in finance)
 
Clearly you don't give a fuck about money.
 
11:05 AM
And $ is one way to achieve freedom
 
Only people that have no interest in money do degrees in Finance.
 
because I suck & don't know how to grow rice or raise cows
 
The nice thing about not giving a fuck about money is that you can sound super hip when you say you don't care about money.
2
 
I told you a million times that I care about money to the degree it can 'buy' me freedom
 
Another benefit of constantly mentioning that you don't care about money is that you are effectively constantly reminding yourself that you don't care about money, just in case you forget.
 
11:08 AM
@R.MartinhoFernandes that
 
I can't live in a forest and foraging my own food. I wish I could, but I can't
 
I almost forgot!
 
Did I tell you my app stuff is not making profit, do you think I could do that because I like to do it if I was starving to death?
Or have no roof over my head?
 
You don't have to excuse yourself for it. It's ok to care about money.
 
I care about freedom
 
11:11 AM
I care about money
Money don't care about me though
 
money's a fickle evil bitch
 
well, I think there is a difference between being realistic and saying that you need money to live in this modern world, and just wanting to amass a big pile of cash.
 
JBL
^Of cache ?
 
lol
 
I want to amass a big pile of cache.
Hence all that RAM.
 
JBL
11:14 AM
Hehe
 
personally
 
so what you'r saying is you want a good RAMing
 
I don't think that money is a useful end goal, it only helps you achieve your other goals.
 
@DeadMG exactly this ^
for once the Puppy is right
 
(peace be upon him)
 
11:15 AM
You need money to do things with
 
JBL
Well its primary use is being an intermediary for exchanges.
Wanting it just for the sake of it sounds retarded.
 
The opposite of that is not "not give a fuck about money" though.
 
@TonyTheLion he can't be! we must amass money for monets sake!
 
JBL
@R.MartinhoFernandes True.
 
user1804599
Yum.
Oreo.
 
11:18 AM
I wouldn't give a fuck about money if vegetables wouldn't rot before I could trade them for whatever I spend my money for :P
 
That would make them money.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes yep
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes No, because you can't deposit them in a bank and get back more of them later.
 
BTW did I tell you how much I love share trading? It's so much fun - it is like playing a massive online game with thousand others
 
and if you suck at it, you lose all your money
 
11:20 AM
The score is settled in real money
 
@ArneMertz It's likely you would if they worked like you described.
 
I made a good profit ... that's one reason which made it more fun probably but I was not too sad if I lose a bit
 
I like stocks, in fact the company I'm at makes a product that gives you stock analyst data ( tipranks.com). Also, trading stocks is another indication of not caring about money.
 
Texas Instruments pranks.
 
Hel folks ^^/
 
11:22 AM
I treated it as as seriously as the other online game I used to play ... I used to be so sad when our team lost ...
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Thanks for the completely unnecessary self-promotion. I'm sure we don't mind at all.
 
@DeadMG Are you more than one person?
 
@DeadMG so saying where I work in context is self promotion?
Guess I missed that memo.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes it makes them valuable, not money
 
dumping a link to it is.
it's one thing to say "I work with stocks" and another to say "Here's my product!!111"
 
11:23 AM
@BenjaminGruenbaum ಠ_ಠ
 
Did I tell you I am going to build a small house (granny flat) soon, my life is so good, I get so many toys/games to play with. Although I expect hard work, but I am not afraid of hard work, I am afraid of boredom more.
 
@thecoshman If you can use them as payment for goods, it's pretty much money by definition.
 
WHERE THE FUCK DID THAT PLINK COME FROM!!!
 
@thecoshman This one?
 
@DeadMG 'dumping a link'? I just linked to my company's website - I wasn't selling anything -_-. It's a site with a video explaining what the company does and what we do...
 
11:24 AM
@BenjaminGruenbaum Which is self-promotion.
 
I think it was ok.
 
@DeadMG That's like saying someone who works at intel who posts a link to intel.com is selling you intel processors.
 
the only part of what you said that's actually in context is "I make a product that is in the financial world".
 
I'm the robot.
 
Hai! :) Can I haz basket?
 
11:25 AM
My friend was like "You are probably the only female builder I know of ..."
She doesn't know many builders ...
 
user1804599
No. Get out.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Hi
 
Looking forward to manual labour <3
 
@rightfold What would a pony like you know?
 
user1804599
That you like Python.
 
11:26 AM
I'm totally in love with it. I admit it.
 
user1804599
I do not really like Python.
 
You love C++??
Thought so.
:P
 
> Downloading has declined thanks to good legal alternatives
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes WHY THE FUCK DID THAT BASTARD FUCKING SOUND COMEBACK
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit lol
 
11:30 AM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit would you stop with that horrible site :P
 
Which torrent sites do you guys use nowadays? most of the more popular torrent sites have been shut down ... or worse still, monitored
 
@thecoshman @thecoshman ?
 
Anton published Haste foreign export beta
 
ok
now I passed a whole 16 of 49 tests.
a big improvement on the 4 of 45 when I first finished this refactoring.
 
11:32 AM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit every link to post is to yet another terrible article
@DeadMG ... if you have tests failing, you haven't finished refactoring
 
just plinking @thecoshman
for sound purposes /cc @thecoshman
 
are you people fucking inbred? obviously the first thing I do when chat decides I must love to hear that fucking shit stain of a noise once more is turn it off, then rage about it.
 
meta mentions have better sound
 
Pirate is mad
 
11:34 AM
you should spam people more on meta chats
 
@thecoshman how do you turn it off?
OMG I ONLY JUST SPOTTED THE SOUND ICON
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit o_0
 
fucking hell
 
argh
 
11:35 AM
I've seen it soooooo many times but never once stopped to actually notice it. you know what I mean?
 
how can the VS debugger be so bad and yet still the best debugging experience? :(
2
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Reminds me of TC&TC.
 
omg omg omg we didn't know you are an idiot Tomalak, omg omg omg
 
But then, everything reminds me of that these days.
 
although on the other hand
I would not be surprised to find that Clang simply called exit() right away.
 
11:42 AM
@R.MartinhoFernandes eh
 
@thecoshman +1
 
well, looks like I'm just going to get more rep but no solutions for another rant about that fucking bug
 
--rerere-autoupdate is a flag for git merge.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes lol
 

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