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12:00 AM
Quite the opposite.
 
@StackedCrooked ?? are there any languages that do not?
 
I remember spending hours explaining the stack to people that had learned the game when I did, or before. That was confusing somehow.
 
Ell
@martin I want to ideally use one mic to record all of us
 
@StackedCrooked proper garbage collection would of course prevent any interaction with newly created objects
 
user1804599
@MartinJames C.
 
12:00 AM
@MartinJames I must be misunderstanding. (See this for context.)
 
user1804599
@sehe proper garbage collection would of course prevent PHP.
3
 
@Ell I'm not an iphone guy, but the mics in the newer ones are decent enough for a regular conversation in a semi-quiet environment (so if you got access to one, give it a try)
 
Oh hey. The old magic cards look like ass
 
@rightfold wazzamapoint
 
user1804599
12:01 AM
@StackedCrooked they mean new foo()->bar().
 
@Rapptz It is still held together by duct tape, there is just less of it there.
 
Oh, you never saw them?
 
@rightfold OK, fair enough. I assumed OO, not shite.
 
@Rapptz Bleh white reprint borders. :P
 
user1804599
Which is horrible and should be forbidden.
 
12:01 AM
@rightfold lol, that was not supported?
 
user1804599
@StackedCrooked PHP didn’t even support foo()[4] until some recent version. vOv
 
Why would people outcry to this?
 
> Evolution, baby. PHP is a survivor.
 
user1804599
You had to do $x = foo(); $x[4].
 
It's a nice change lol. How does that "remove the fantasy element" from the game? Shit's weird
 
12:02 AM
I think I'm gonna tatoo that on my arm
 
@rightfold Ok. Let's end this here.
I need to sleep soon.
 
user1804599
Me too.
 
@Rapptz It's a big change, and late in the game. People grew used to it.
 
user1804599
Gonna jack off and sleep.
 
user1804599
Goodbye.
 
12:02 AM
Have you seen the old white frames?
 
er. good night.
 
Those were the horriblest.
 
I have
Blue cards looked really really bad
 
Can't even read the card name properly.
 
@Rapptz Only some white and green cards looked not-horrible. Some. :P
 
12:04 AM
I liked blue cards :(
 
jesus christ it's a religion
> More power to the PHP Hammer
 
@Jefffrey What a funny statement.
 
@Jefffrey where do you take that?
 
@LoïcFaure-Lacroix comments here
 
Daaaamn, this oversized foil Sharuum is gorgeous <3
 
12:05 AM
#34 to be precise
because they don't have a system to link comments
IN 2014
 
Anything replaced Pear?
 
Magic has 4 rarities. Yugioh has 23.
 
@LoïcFaure-Lacroix Tears and broken hopes
 
@Rapptz 4 rarities > 23 rarities.
 
12:06 AM
@Rapptz How the fuck.
 
Also wat 23 rarities.
 
Be amazed!
Yeah it's a bit weird
Many of them are exclusive to specific packs.
 
I'm a maze
 
@Jefffrey Awesome, article that says nothing constructive.
I love those.
 
@Rapptz Wat.
 
@Griwes comments are way better
 
> Ultra Secret Rare
> Secret Ultra Rare
Wat.
 
Duel Terminal Secret Parallel Rare
 
12:08 AM
:lol:
 
Yup. It's pretty bad.
 
> Duel Terminal Rare Parallel Rare
Wat.
I mean, wat.
 
> PHP haters are gonna hate, We will still shine though and lead the way in the Dev world.
Ok I'm done.
 
Duel Terminal packs are promo packs (so those are exclusive to a pack)
 
Holofoil sounds like something lifted from Star Wars
 
12:09 AM
@Rapptz Oh, like mistake #4?
 
> Dual Terminal Rare Parallel Rare
 
It's superduperrare man
 
Who the fuck puts the word "rare" twice in the same expression.
 
It's so rare it doesn't even exist
 
The Japanese
 
12:10 AM
Throat Wolf. That's MtG's fifth rarity.
 
@Jefffrey I wonder if any of those read this. I guess not.
 
@Griwes If you think that's bad, there are actually 4 different variants of Duel Terminal Rare Parallel Rare.
 
@Rapptz Are. You. Fucking. Kidding. Me.
 
That's awesome
 
@Griwes lame people
 
@Rapptz I don't want to know.
I will know to stick to MtG from this point, thanks.
 
Is this just about the aspect, or do the cards actually have different proportions within a set?
 
@Griwes I should read it too
 
latter iirc
 
@Jefffrey Pretty good read, although some of the points are arguable.
 
12:13 AM
@Rapptz Oh gosh.
 
Never engage with rabid PHP fanboys
 
Duel Terminal cards were supposed to be for people new to the game
 
Ell
okay audio is out of my depth!
 
Might explain why they're so shiny.
 
@Rapptz So they can get an awesome new rarity no-one cares about?
 
12:13 AM
Because in MtG you have foils, and textless, and promo variants and all sorts of rare stuff, but within each set there's a fixed proportion: 11 commons + 3 uncommons + 1 rare per pack; one in thirteen packs has a mythic rare instead of rare.
Textless are bestest.
 
Each pack usually have Common, Short Print, Uncommon, Rare, Super Rare, Ultra Rare, and Secret Rare cards.
 
@CatPlusPlus There are rabid PHP fanboys?
 
@MartinJames Yes, all of them
 
@Rapptz Wait, it's not 1:1:1..., right?
 
No
 
12:15 AM
@Griwes lol
 
 8 Secret Rares
10 Ultra Rares
14 Super Rares
20 Rares
48 Commons
from the newest pack
 
@CatPlusPlus OK, luckily they're rare around here. I only get rabid SQL developers.
 
Oh, packs are huge.
@Rapptz Wait, what do you mean with "pack"?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Well, when confronted with 23 rarities, a human can doubt the sanity of the rest of the ecosystem.
 
the entire set of the booster pack
 
12:16 AM
The one true amazing thing about PHP is that I know how Facebook is converting from PHP to C, but in Russia, they just built a PHP compiler to build php to binary instead.
 
an actual pack has 9 cards in it
 
the ratio is guaranteed to have at least 1 rare or higher in it
 
MtG sets are ~200-300 or ~100-200.
 
if you get 1 rare you have a chance for another rare or higher card
so at most 2 rares or higher per pack
 
12:17 AM
Ah.
 
That particular rule would be similar with MtG's.
 
> I can't tell you the number of times I've watched through a one-way mirror as players were baffled about what happens when their 2/2s are blocked by 1/3s.
I don't get how that's confusing
 
> There’s redundant syntax for blocks: if (...): ... endif;, etc.
it's kinda useful when embedding in HTML
 
:( Deathtouch is such a good mechanic
 
Except that raw PHP is shit at templating
So it doesn't have much value
 
12:24 AM
you don't have much alternatives as powerful
SMARTY just sucks
 
I implemented Django templates in PHP long time ago
 
lolwhy
 
Anything is better than PHP, because PHP is not powerful at all at this
 
@Jefffrey I implemented a reasonably working template system in like 3 days back when I was an utterly shitty programmer.
 
Inheritance is really, really, really, really necessary for any non-trivial shit
 
12:26 AM
> Protection
Some experienced players mess this one up so there's no way beginners are going to get it. OUT
 
then I remember __get and __call
those were awesome
for confusion
 
@Rapptz Wait what? Are we talking MtG?
 
Yeah
I'm reading the old link Robot gave me
 
How can you mess protection up.
 
iunno
 
12:28 AM
@Rapptz There are tons of good mechanics in MtG. Life is too short to discover the awesomeness of all of them. :D
 
> Smarty is like having a car on top of a car and believing it improves your gas mileage.
 
yeah
 
@HamZa That ain't a template, that's raw PHP in HTML document.
 
@Griwes PHP is kind of a templating language. So there is no need to put another layer on top of it
 
@HamZa Quite the contrary - you can either have to do shittons of checks or do a proper templating engine.
6 mins ago, by Cat Plus Plus
Except that raw PHP is shit at templating
 
Ell
12:30 AM
my ruby c++ generator code doesn't look that awful :P
 
Have you read the whole article ?
 
@HamZa I didn't have to.
 
Hm.
 
well there's the problem
 
> After a lot of number crunching, we came to realize that there was a high causation between how many words a card had in its rules text and how often a player noted he or she didn't understand what the card did. The magic number (or should I say,Magic number) where comprehension dropped off the sharpest was at twelve words. The Spinal Tap Rule says that cards can "go to eleven"—that is, they may have up to eleven words of rules text. At twelve words, the card is red flagged.
that makes sense I suppose
 
12:31 AM
@HamZa why would we waste our time with that?
 
> Subclasses cannot override private methods.
wait wat
 
@LoïcFaure-Lacroix you don't have to
 
Ell
@jeffrey that's fine?
protected methods
 
oh wait, I forgot that PHP is a forbidden word here
 
@HamZa 1) I do not care about it 2) You just told me its premise and I wholeheartedly disagree with it.
 
12:32 AM
@Griwes It only affects four things.
 
Why would I read it again?
 
Cards with protection from X can still be affected by cards with X.
That's confusing.
 
@Ell yeah, then why is he bitching about it?
 
@Griwes let's stop here since there will be no progress. I respect your opinion
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes This is usual. Protections (hexproof is still a kind of protection) only protect from targeting.
 
12:33 AM
@Griwes Usual doesn't matter.
It's confusing.
 
Otherwise mass removals would make no sense whatsoever and slapping any of the mass hexproof enchantments would be an instawin.
It's logical when you give it 20 seconds of thinking.
 
@Jefffrey I guess he means "that you cannot reuse the name of private members in subclasses.
 
Yes, but protection protects from mass damage, but not mass removal, for example.
 
But then, people don't want to spend 20 seconds doing such trivial things as "thinking".
 
TIL the average beginner Magic player has a 5th grade reading level
 
12:34 AM
Hexproof only prevents targetting. It's simple and quick to explain.
 
@Rapptz :D
 
Protection is not so simple.
 
So if you have a private member called "item", subclass won't be able to define a memeber called "item" that will "ghost" the private member in some ways
 
@LoïcFaure-Lacroix could be, but he clearly says "can't override"
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Sure, because it does more things.
@R.MartinhoFernandes Same way "indestructible" is "not so simple".
 
12:36 AM
@Griwes Why do you think indestructible gets printed all the time? Wait, it doesn't.
 
But I'd still argue they aren't really complicated - and you can always spend another 20 seconds to check the ruling.
 
@Jefffrey yeah may be not best argument
 
I wanted to make keywords a bit simpler
 
It's not 20 seconds, and those 20 seconds are exactly the reason it fell out of favour.
Rules lawyering is for judges.
 
so like I made Protection not be Protection from X but rather just "Protection from being attacked" in general
 
12:37 AM
@R.MartinhoFernandes Lawyering is fun \o/
 
If you've got someone good at googling, it's a minute to find the information, another three minutes for three people reading over their shoulder to debate what it actually means in this specific case (oh, but he has deathtouch!), ten more minutes for the fistfight that actually decides the ruling...
 
> In 2007 the interpreter had an integer overflow vulnerability. The fix started with if (size > INT_MAX) return NULL; and went downhill from there. (For those not down with the C: INT_MAX is the biggest integer that will fit in a variable, ever. I hope you can figure out the rest from there.)
It's still my favorite so far
 
@SamDeHaan "He has deathtouch" brings nothing new, because everyone knows what deathtouch means and that it needs to deal damage.
"Applied logic" should be taught in school.
 
Preferably using MtG rules.
 
12:39 AM
Applied logic implies that everything is presented logically.
 
:D
 
Hearthstone had that issue where if you attacked someone with Divine Shield, they'd get -0 damage
 
It's the mutant horses all over again, isn't it?
 
But people had cards that said "If this card deals damage, then destroy the card that it dealt damage to" and since you technically dealt -0 people were confused
 
> int charsize = sizeof(char);
if ((size > INT_MAX || size <= 0) || ((size * charsize) > INT_MAX || (size * charsize) <= 0)) {
return NULL;
}
 
12:40 AM
> Incrementing (++) a NULL produces 1.
This is the best feature
 
@Rapptz lol.
 
I still don't get how they came up with that
 
@LoïcFaure-Lacroix You could think as NULL being 0, but hey! --NULL is equal to NULL.
PHP is wonderful
3
 
Do you see in the snippet above that the (size*charsize) will never be bigger than INT_MAX ?
 
@Griwes FWIW, I know pretty much all the rules up to M10 (including arcane bullshit like order of state-based effects, and except for useless bullshit like banding), but the last thing I want when I'm playing is to have to explain them to someone in the middle of a game.
 
12:43 AM
Nothing is more frustrating than someone calling judge for explanations.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Well, mostly agreed.
 
And much less, to win or lose a game because someone misunderstood something.
 
@Rapptz Last Saturday at Born of the Gods prerelease, about 95% of cases of calling a judge were from a single guy. :D
 
Also, FFS, why do I know order of state-based effects.
 
Anyway, about the only rule that leads to "fuck you, dude" when one doesn't know it is the stack. IT FILLS WITH RAGE when people don't get it.
The worst thing is, a friend of mine who is studying robotics here at WUoT (!) couldn't get the rule. ?!
 
@Griwes Still? I hadn't had to explain the stack in years, but I know how you feel.
47 mins ago, by R. Martinho Fernandes
I remember spending hours explaining the stack to people that had learned the game when I did, or before. That was confusing somehow.
That was back in Sixth. The stack felt so elegant.
 
So, this begs the question - what's the stack? :)
 
Effect resolution
 
@SamDeHaan FILO queue.
 
Ah. When I play, I play with people who are all relatively casual / play mostly online where the rules are handled for you. The stack is a big source of disagreement
 
12:49 AM
How can you even disagree on how the stack works.
 
Yugioh's Chain thing is a lot more complex
 
Not playing often is a pretty easy source.
 
I really, really don't understand not understanding the stack.
 
because everything can be chained
well, 90% of things
 
> After placing all Spell Speed 1 effects on the Chain, or after a Fast Effect activation, the last player who activated his card/effect must give his opponent the chance to respond with another card/effect of their own.
 
12:50 AM
Well, it might not technically qualify as the stack
 
How elegant that in MtG this is abstracted out as priority. :D
 
There are cards that activate based on chain count
 
I think split second cards were the first to mention the stack in print.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Maybe.
 
I remember that it caused a few people to go "what the hell is a stack?"
 
12:51 AM
Let's search gatherer for "stack" in text. :D
 
I was unsure if Time Stop had it in reminder text. Seems it did.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes There are some Scourge or Mirage cards that mention the stack.
 
@Griwes Not in print.
 
12:53 AM
Ah!
 
Why does that need reminder text?
 
Right.
@R.MartinhoFernandes Or not right: gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/…
 
@Rapptz "End the turn."? Because there was no effect that did it before.
 
@Rapptz Because end of turn is a hell of a complicated effect.
Doesn't trigger end step, which - as I heard - people tend to miss.
 
In particular, clearing the stack is not something you would expect.
It's a super counter.
 
12:55 AM
Ok, so only Scourge had "stack" in print before those silly split seconds.
Interesting.
 
@Rapptz Time Stop is one of those cards that has a rules section just for itself (well, it's not alone anymore, but it did when printed).
 
Hm
Still don't know how to do proper card grammar anymore
 
> If a Magic subgame (see rule 715) is restarted, the main game is unaffected.
hahaha.
What a mess.
 
1:21 AM
 
Ah so it is related to that
I wasn't sure
 
That's another one of those that has a section for itself (715).
 
that is terrible. games take long enough as it is >.>
 
The quote is from the section dedicated to Karn Liberated, which can restart a game (and interact in the worst way possible with Sharazad).
 
1:22 AM
@Borgleader What the fuck.
 
Another fun interaction with Sharazad is that the cards left in the original game are outside the game in the subgame, so you can move them from the original game to the subgame with Wishes‌​.
So you can fetch the Sharazad you left in the main game's stack straight into the subgame, and start a sub-subgame.
 
Is that Secret Mistake #21?
 
Hopefully your opponent will concede at the prospect of playing so many games.
@Rapptz Nah, that's just an old silly card.
 
I really hope this Shahrazad card is banned in all settings.
 
Of course
> 715.6. A subgame can be created within a subgame. The existing subgame becomes the main game in relation to the new subgame.
Ah hey. It's valid.
 
1:28 AM
@EtiennedeMartel It is.
 
Good. Because fuck that bullshit.
 
Meh.
Games in Vintage last three turns. (And that'd be the only format it would be allowed if it was)
 
Did I mention I don't play card games?
 
It shows.
So.. what was wrong with Ante?
Or well, what was it
 
1:31 AM
Oh...
 
At the beginning of the game, you would take a random card and put it facedown as ante.
 
I just read it.
 
The winner would get everything in the ante zone. As in, own it.
 
That's just weird
 
1:31 AM
Yeah...
 
Some cards manipulated the ante zone.
That was even horribler.
 
MtG needs more horsemanship.
 
@Rapptz Yeah. "Here, have a Mudhole"
 
lol this one is great
I like how it shows the newer card text
 
"Remove the pieces from the game afterwards." is one of the best rules text ever printed.
 
@Rapptz ...some magic cards are just no
 
@SamDeHaan It's a joke set.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes huh, I see
 
1:37 AM
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yeah, always gives me a chuckle.
 
Are any haskellers around?
 
No die rolling in non-silver bordered land, though. Coin flipping yes, though.
 
> You may roll dice only when a card instructs you to
@R.MartinhoFernandes is this even fair?
 
@LoïcFaure-Lacroix Is what fair?
 
1:42 AM
The dice roll clause?
Yeah
 
Do all people flip the coin or just you
 
No coin flipping unless some effect calls for it.
 
So I need not only to win ten flips, but also to cause them.
It was a fun deck to build.
 
It'd be insane if you could just impromptu flip a coin or roll a dice
 
that's around at most 20 flips to win
 
not how probability works
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes never played cards, just read some games and played cards in Rage
I think one card game I'd like to play is strangly pokemon cards
 
The probability of winning after 20 flips is only slightly higher than 50%.
 
Pokemon TCG involves a lot of coin flipping
It is the most RNG heavy card game there is
 
1:48 AM
@Rapptz More than HS?
 
yes
 
What would be cool is if steam would use the cards in steam to create some kind of game
Not sure how it could be done but could make the trading card in steam at least worth something
 
Would need 30 flips for 95% certainty.
So, I was in the middle of implementing kernel density estimates. About three hours ago.
 

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