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6:00 PM
I have invented time travel
 
@rightføld I was forced to learn PHP in school. I told them it hurts but they wouldn't listen
 
@exitc0de Sounds like C++.
 
@exitc0de what's a multiple return type?
 
If you want C++, just use C++.
 
Let's not credit discodevs
 
user1804599
6:00 PM
For now I just need a background resembling a galaxy, and a few large images of planets.
 
user1804599
But I can mix those myself.
 
@CatPlusPlus *dicsodevs
 
user1804599
@exitc0de ignoring "C++-like", Scala
 
I just don't want to learn a language which by the type I have good knowledge of it, it dies.
 
@exitc0de what
 
6:01 PM
Because I like super useful time saving features.
 
like what.
 
@exitc0de Don't learn Fortran, then.
 
@exitc0de C++ will never die. There are just too many crappy codebases no one wants to rewrite.
 
Actually, even Fortran isn't going to die anytime soon.
 
@exitc0de How about Go?
 
6:01 PM
oh he meant "by the time"
 
Good evening btw
 
Garbage collected.
 
@black How about no?
 
user1804599
inb4 Go has GC so no
 
Can't use that for games.
 
6:02 PM
Goblow
 
@exitc0de how about english
 
user1804599
I'm using Clojure for my game and your argument is invalid.
 
C++ and time saving in the same sentence, haahahaha
 
@black Good evening.
 
look I'm posting moving pictures
 
6:02 PM
@BartekBanachewicz Like you never made a tyop.
 
user1804599
Oh Tumblr dashboard got a redesign.
 
I'm not going to be super OCD about typing correctly in a chatroom.
 
I save my OCD for serious things too
 
Ell
I think you guys might be misunderstanding the no go GC thing
 
@exitc0de It's a Lounge.
 
6:03 PM
@Ell What? Why?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I'm twerking that
 
He said it explicitly
 
user1804599
GCs are great.
 
Its a chatroom called a lounge.
 
Nov 3 at 16:52, by R. Martinho Fernandes
> Q: Why C for the compiler's language? Have you considered Go?
A: No, I did not consider Go because Go is garbage collected and therefore we can't use it
 
6:04 PM
And it's now modern
Thanks to pairs
 
How did we misunderstand that?
 
So is.
 
Ell
@R.MartinhoFernandes I think he meant for compiling the generated code
Which is still a bad argument
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Because he actually meant uh discogarbage
 
@exitc0de if you're an expert on chatrooms like you're on languages...
 
Ell
6:05 PM
But I mean there might be misunderstanding is all I'm thinking
 
@Ell So what did we misunderstood, then?
 
auto x = condition ? a : b;
What is the name for the type of x? Common something something?
 
user1804599
Great thing about photos of planets is that the background is black.
 
That's exactly what we understood. That he has no idea what he's talking about BUT GO GARBAGE COLLECTOR
 
user1804599
Easy to cut out the planets.
 
6:05 PM
@FredOverflow Placeholder type
 
@FredOverflow common_type whatever
 
Ah, that's what you meant
 
The only reason anyone has listed for C++ not being modern is a lack of well written tools.
 
The library counterpart
 
My gut says "common supertype", but that's only for inheritance?
 
6:06 PM
Which is due to the C++ community, not the language anyway.
 
The ecosystem is terrible
 
@exitc0de Pairs compensate that lack.
 
user1804599
@FredOverflow when in doubt, decltype(x).
 
Language on its own is useless
 
Yep.
 
6:06 PM
@FredOverflow Either<decltype(a), decltype(b)>
 
Language without tooling is unusable
 
@exitc0de Well, have fun with your theoretically-modern language, then.
 
Ha
 
Well Minecraft is written in Java
 
Compilers are bad, debuggers are worse
 
6:06 PM
@black and runs like total shit, congratulations
 
user1804599
Minecraft runs fine.
 
Libraries are written by idiots
 
let's bring this shitty example up every time
 
@CatPlusPlus And MSVC is even worse.
 
I'm gonna learn C++ and then Rust when it gets a nice game engine.
 
6:07 PM
lol game engine
 
And both are fine for my purpse.
 
lol
game development lol
 
*purpose.
 
There's a Rust game engine already.
 
There's no central dependency management, making running any C++ project a pain in the ass
 
6:07 PM
@exitc0de you can edit your posts
 
@exitc0de I thought you didn't know C++ nor Rust. How can you assess that they are fine for your purposes.
 
he doesn't
 
The Lounge where hope comes to die
 
Define 'know'
 
The state after you learn something.
 
6:07 PM
I can tell from what I've learnt already and what I want to do that they are fine for my purposes.
 
@BartekBanachewicz If it run as shit, it wouldn't be worth tons of money
 
@black hahah lol nope you're completely wrong
 
It did run as shit
 
Well, you referred to them as similar, so you clearly don't know enough of either.
 
6:08 PM
I'm going to work on Nagios
rip me
 
waz that
 
If you all hate C++ so much then what will you use instead.
?
 
6:09 PM
PHP is for the web.
 
.hs.hs.hs.hs.hs.HShs ............ choo chooo!
 
@exitc0de Wait, how does that change anything?
 
NO BRAKES ON THE HASKELL HYPE TRAIN
 
Oh, ffs, Bartek is back.
 
I guess the question was opinionated.
 
6:10 PM
I use C# and Python
 
But PHP != C++
And python isnt compiled.
Meh
 
Sure is
 
@exitc0de That's provably wrong.
 
Not that it matters at all
 
Not object oriented.
 
6:10 PM
lol
 
user1804599
@exitc0de wat
 
@exitc0de That's also... bullshit?
 
Smalltalk is the only object oriented language
 
@exitc0de lmao
 
Unless by "object oriented" you mean "C++". Then yes, Python is not C++.
3
 
user1804599
6:11 PM
Compiling is pretty much the first thing the reference implementation of Python does.
 
lol this dude is brilliant
 
Some people have different concepts of performance. Some don't even care.
 
C++ is a brilliant, fast, modern, well supported multi purpose language.
 
@exitc0de You should write a book
 
6:12 PM
How long do you know C++
A week?
 
ikr
A year
 
C++ is indeed brillant.
 
@exitc0de thats the beginning of where all your hopes and dreams die, C++
 
6:12 PM
Why?
I genuinely want to know why C++ is disadvantaged
 
@exitc0de "well supported" is false, and it's exactly what having crap tools shows.
 
just try it for a while
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Is "brilliant" a typo?
 
^
 
6:13 PM
@exitc0de Because it's a mass of organically grown cruft.
 
I'm starting to think this is jefffrey's parachute
 
We should change the title to Lounge<C++ bashing>
 
Rust looks promising. I'll follow that then. My problem is that you say C++ sucks basically, and there's no alternative.
 
It's like C with some mold that grew way too much.
 
C++ is better for pretty much everything than C
 
6:14 PM
Mold can still be useful, but in the end, it's just yoghurt.
@exitc0de Yes, it sucks, and there are no straight alternatives to languages.
 
For gamedev then.
 
You have alternative tools to solve certain problems.
 
And not C#
 
@exitc0de WTF
"Alternatives but not this one"
Please tells us in this picture where C# touched you.
 
C# is no better than C++ except for Unity.
 
6:16 PM
How much C# and how much C++ do you know?
 
And I already know about it.
 
Have you written any small-sized project with either of them? Medium? Large?
 
How am I supposed to describe how much I know
 
@exitc0de By knowing how much you know.
 
there's no need to; you obviously don't have a clue about any of the languages you've mentioned so far
 
6:17 PM
I can't list everything I know about C++
 
What's the most complex feature of C++ you have learned?
 
Which is, in a fact, hard, since you've basically just supplied comedy material for the starboard.
 
@exitc0de by spreading your hands apart dramatically and going "this much!"
 
This dumb trolling is starting to get boring
 
@rightføld I am looking for the english term.
 
6:18 PM
@CatPlusPlus Let's play a game. I say a number and you tell me a larger number.
 
There are some super complex stuff that you learn a bit of really early
 
@exitc0de Like...
 
user1804599
@FredOverflow "type of x"
 
@Columbo Infinity
 
@exitc0de How about trying some actual programming
 
6:19 PM
"some super complex stuff" is not a feature of C++ that I am aware of.
 
user1804599
It is C++.
 
I don't pretend to be an expert on C++
I want to know why people who know more than me don't like it and I have.
 
Yeah, I don't even.
 
user1804599
I hope I can export Pixelmator files to PNG from the command-line. :L
 
Because there's nothing to like about this festering pile of garbage
 
6:20 PM
@exitc0de Because those people have seen things.
 
Pretending to be an expert on C++ is what we do best!
 
user1804599
@exitc0de aahahaha class Math
 
You've barely touched the surface.
 
I know.
 
@CatPlusPlus Aleph 1
Lol jk
 
user1804599
6:21 PM
lol printf
 
@exitc0de It's a rite of passage. You'll know it the deeper you are.
 
@rightføld be nice. There's no need to mock someone for not knowing C++
 
Name a problem with printf.
 
@jalf even Stroustrup isn't an expert
 
user1804599
There is also no OOP in that program yet it's tagged .
 
6:21 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes I don't see why it has to be formal... clear yes, but formal?
 
That effected it in that occasion.
 
@exitc0de It's not type safe.
 
@Columbo ω1
 
@exitc0de Undefined behaviour at every opportunity
 
@exitc0de You don't seem to know, because you seem to have this steadfast confidence that you know C++ is the right language for whatever thing you want to do.
 
user1804599
6:21 PM
How to name planet.
 
@CatPlusPlus ωω ?
 
ω^ω
 
Is that valid?
 
user1804599
Omega I indeed sounds good. Thanks Cat.
 
@exitc0de If you knew you barely know anything about C++, you wouldn't be that confident.
 
6:22 PM
In that case printf had no disadvantages
 
For what I was trying to do.
 
printf's main disadvantages stem from the design.
 
you just don't see them.
 
6:23 PM
They go everywhere.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes IOW "it exists"
 
That was stupid.
 
In that program how would printf cause a problem
 
Yes, after your code doesn't have bugs anymore, it doesn't have bugs anymore.
 
@exitc0de it's deeper than that
 
6:23 PM
Yawn
 
@exitc0de printf("I wonder what will happen... %s, %d", 42);
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes That's a contradiction.
 
user1804599
@jalf Compile-time error.
 
I know both
And for that purpose neither is better.
 
@rightføld Nope, just a warning.
 
6:24 PM
@exitc0de both what
 
In bigger programs, maybe
 
@exitc0de it's very easy to misuse it
 
@rightføld not according to the standard. Some compilers are nice enough to warn about it, some compilers can be asked to generate an error
 
user1804599
@Columbo Warnings are errors when I invoke the compiler.
 
being small isn't an excuse for being shitty
 
6:24 PM
@rightføld Well played. I was just gonna write about -Werror
 
@exitc0de In all programs. It has problems on its own.
 
a small turd is still a turd
 
Not everyone uses Vim.
7
 
what the fuck has vim to do with that
 
@rightføld I just compiled that with clang and gcc. Both accepted it. :) (And I think we can probably all guess what MSVC would do about it)
 
6:24 PM
what did it do to you
 
I guess you will all be old school C++ programmers who are anti compilers that actually help.
 
what the fuck are you on about
are you high
wait no, it's not you.
 
user1804599
Yay Swing.
 
It's me, I'm not drunk.
time to fix that.
 
@jalf Compiled with -Werror?
 
6:26 PM
@exitc0de personally I prefer language features that are guaranteed to work correctly over ones where I get no guarantee, and just have to hope that the compiler goes above and beyond to catch more of my errors than it is required to do
 
This chat room isn't very helpful.
15
 
@exitc0de Haha
 
@Columbo Of course not. :)
 
user1804599
I need a font.
 
@exitc0de I don't think anyone in this room ever claimed it was.
 
6:26 PM
@exitc0de We're the best!
 
@rightføld Use the Alienware font.
 
@exitc0de Is your main measure of usefulness "do they agree with me?"
 
Its particularly unhelpful, contradictory, unreliable, stubborn, anti-new people
11
I am an ignorant new comer to C++
 
@exitc0de YMMD
 
user1804599
Let's see how much of a pain it is to have Swing load a font from a file.
 
6:28 PM
@exitc0de First well said thing today, congrats! Cat, get the champaign
 
And I don't pretend not to be
 
@exitc0de At points you seem quite confident that you are not.
 
@exitc0de or are we
 
@exitc0de What the heck just happened.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes hi hi hi
 
6:28 PM
You may claim you aren't, but behave as if you were.
 
user1804599
> Font.createFont(Font.TRUETYPE_FONT, new File("A.ttf"))
 
@Jefffrey you know this one?
 
user1804599
bet this is gonna fail
 
Not that I know of
 
But maybe You just don't name alternatives or show reasoning. You just hate C++ for no good reason other than 'badly written tools' which you could write yourselves.
 
6:29 PM
Haha, I just found out that champaign is actually a city
 
@exitc0de What does having alternatives change?
It sucks.
There are no alternatives.
 
And I meant champagne
 
It sucks even more, then!
 
Is this a language war?
 
@exitc0de You wanna write C++ tools?
Have seen how much money has been poured into the poor tools we have now?
 
6:30 PM
'I HATE JAVA, PHP SUCKS, X IS GARBAGE COLLECTED, C++ HAD BAD TOOLS,'
4
 
lol
 
user1804599
Garbage collection is good.
 
OMG not everything is perfect!
 
@exitc0de You're gonna fill the star board today
 
Shocking.
More at eleven.
 
6:30 PM
Go for asm. lol
 
Does anyone here actually 'know more than a week' of Java?
 
Week?
 
A week?
Yes.
 
user1804599
@FredOverflow teaches it.
 
I've used Java for a few years.
 
6:31 PM
And you think it is horrible?
 
@exitc0de Ahahahahaha
 
I'm learning java this week.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes So you carry the disease?
 
Yes I want to write entire tooling to work with a language
 
You've touched the unholy?
 
6:31 PM
I've used C# for a few years, too. Same with C++. Same with Haskell. Same with boo. Same with freaking Pascal.
 
Also my own OS
And run it all on my custom-made hardware
 
I just like the neat little features C++ has.
 
With power from my home power plant
 
@exitc0de I've only seen one person here make fun of you or treat you badly as a "new person". Everyone else are merely unheplful, contradictory, unreliable and stubborn
 
@exitc0de Which you haven't learned yet?
 
6:32 PM
@CatPlusPlus Cooled by your home sea
 
@exitc0de Such as?
 
@exitc0de Name one neat little feature you like about C++ that makes it special.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Pairs.
 
Templates are neat.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes } (stolen)
 
user1804599
6:32 PM
@Jefffrey But not little.
 
Dunno if special though.
 
@Jefffrey "Little" ;)
 
Templates are not worth the tradeoff
 
Oh.
 
Like, forgive my ignorance, pairs, auto, pointers, stuff mentioned in the program I wrote which I linked that you continued to criticise without offering any constructive criticism.
 
user1804599
6:33 PM
@Jefffrey Few languages feature templates, so fairly special.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Concepts then. :P
They are lite.
 
@exitc0de Pointers
 
user1804599
@exitc0de C# has those too.
 
Programmers are unfriendly.
 
@exitc0de This chatroom wasn't designed to be helpful.
 
6:33 PM
C# has unsafe pointers.
 
@exitc0de Yes, pairs are everywhere. auto as well: as mentioned C++ was one of the last to get that.
 
@exitc0de lol
 
user1804599
C# has safe pointers too.
 
Pointers are unsafe yes
 
and C++ doesn't?
 
6:33 PM
@exitc0de Yes, don't be a programmer
 
Pointers are also everywhere. Not pointer arithmetic, but you mentioned you liked to use pointers "safely" above, so that's out.
 
C++ lets you do unsafe things
 
Programming sucks
 
Which I like.
 
user1804599
var x = "Hello, world!"; // x is a pointer to an object
 
6:34 PM
@exitc0de Why?
 
Which is a useless ability that only creates bugs
cf I have freedom to write shitty code
 
Because you can do things.
 
I can always do thongs
 
user1804599
You can also do things without unsafe features.
 
thongs and strings
 
6:35 PM
I have officially filled the star board
 
You might want to be memory or cpu efficient (which might have the side effect of dealing with unsafe things). But saying that you like doing unsafe things seems just dumb.
 
congrafuckinglations
 
1 message moved to bin
 
Still no jifs
 
6:35 PM
I'd like a fig tho
 
ftw.
 
@CatPlusPlus dat jif
 
user1804599
fatwa
 
Anyhow. I have learnt that C++ is a horrible language and there are no alternatives and that printf sucks.
 
user1804599
There are many alternatives.
 
user1804599
6:36 PM
Such as Haskell.
 
And that programmers are unfriendly.
 
user1804599
That I cannot disagree with.
 
Haskell is the only listed alternative.
 
<3
 
Name a game engine for Haskell?
 
6:36 PM
@exitc0de Welcome to the harsh reality of programming. Everything sucks :)
 
OMG "the alternative" people.
 
user1804599
lambda cube
 
@exitc0de I don't think there's.
 
Things can have flaws without alternatives existing.
 
6:36 PM
Also - does it have pairs, auto and pointers?
 
There's one or two
Not that it matters much
 
@exitc0de Doesn't need them AFAIK
 
C++ is the best language for what I want to do at the moment.
 
In fact, flaws in things are often reasons for alternatives to exist.
 
user1804599
@exitc0de Yes.
 
6:37 PM
@exitc0de Why
 
@exitc0de You barely know C++! How do you know that?
 
pairs are love pairs are life.
 
If what you want to do is stab yourself in the eye with something
 
user1804599
Well, pointers are a library feature but that doesn't matter.
 
6:37 PM
instead of talking about it
 
user1804599
(Protip you don't need them.)
 
@CatPlusPlus Particularly unhelpful.
 
@exitc0de Type inference in Haskell is much more powerful than C++'s measly auto.
 
I must have pointers
I just must
I have no pointers and I must dereference
 
Meh. I should probably do something better with my time than argue with stubborn anti-C++ programmers.
 
6:38 PM
19 mins ago, by milleniumbug
@exitc0de How about trying some actual programming
 
Who are particularly unhelpful, contradictory, unreliable, stubborn, anti-new people :D
 
@exitc0de Takes two to tango.
 
user1804599
@exitc0de Indeed. Goodbye.
 
And pairs are so useful
 
@exitc0de Yep. write some code. In C++ or something else. Learn a language, regardless of which language it is. Then, when you've done that, you can start comparing it to other languages, and learn and understand the differences and their relative strengths. :)
 
6:39 PM
Maybe I'll do something in Lisp
 
And tuple in boost
 
Maybe not
 
exitcode is still trolling around I see
 
Fuck programming
Let's configure HAProxy
 
@jalf Something constructive :D
 
6:40 PM
People have been telling you don't have enough experience to do any of those comparisons for a long time.
But yeah, sure.
 
Good day. Also learn a real language like... Visual basic ftw
 
Where's that thing with recommended TLS settings
 
Wow, I expected like some kind of uproar
nvm
 
@exitc0de Oh, yeah, I also used Visual Basic for a few years.
 
I'll learn Rust.
No one hates Rust yet.,
But does it have pointers, pairs and auto?
I hope so.
 
6:41 PM
I preliminarily do just to not get disappointed
 
That is definitely not true. I hate Rust. :P
 
How long have you used it for?
 
@exitc0de It doesn't have unsafe pointers. Well, it does, but it makes it hard to use them.
 
He's osdev so that's even worse than game stuff
Don't listen to him
We don't know how he got out of isolation
 
C++ o.p, pls nrf.
 
6:43 PM
I actually briefly entertained a thought of writing something booting with Rust
 
@exitc0de The thing is, if those are the best things for what you want to do, then almost every other language is better than C++ at it.
 
@exitc0de I didn't. :D
 
Oh, and about the new people: how do you know this 'treatment' is only for new people?
Bartek suggests Haskell TO EVERYONE
 
Could the people of the C++ lounge suggest languages with all the features I mentioned above, which they consider modern that has a game engine and is reasonably well supported/reasonable community. That would be exceedingly helpful.
I will be open minded.
 
@CatPlusPlus At least I am not saying "don't use vector because you can't use them in early boot" to everyone.
 
6:45 PM
At least
 
@exitc0de C#.
 
@exitc0de a language that has all C++'s features? You're asking the wrong question
 
@jalf No, he only listed three. (Which are pretty much everywhere.)
 
I didn't say all of C++s features.
 
it's still the wrong question
Can you name a real language other than English that has the words "stepladder", "cheerleader" and "waffles"?
 
6:46 PM
@jalf Not constructive!
 
Could you answer it anyway. I just want built in memory stuff.
They're useful.
 
rubby
 
Ruby?
 
@exitc0de What is that?
 
Don't use rubby
 
6:46 PM
Most languages use memory one way or another.
Even bra*nfuck does.
 
You don't need pointers per se. Rebindable references are pointers. Pointer arithmetic is almost useless
 
Stop trying to catch me out, only one person has answered the question.
 
Every language has pointers
C# is fine
 
That are similarly implemented to C++?
 
If you want C++, use C++.
 
6:47 PM
What does that mean and why would that matter in the slightest
 
I dont
 
@exitc0de Hard to answer the question if you refuse to make it clear.
@exitc0de Then stop asking for C++.
 
I want a language that is equally useful for gamedev
 
"I want C++ but I don't want C++" is illogical, y'know.
 
user1804599
C#.
 
6:48 PM
lol gamedev
 
@exitc0de That's a very unclear description.
 
You are so anti-everything
 
yes
 
Bigoted.
 
@exitc0de Because everything is terrible.
 
6:48 PM
Yes, it's what we do best.
 
@exitc0de I came back after ten minutes and the nonsensical debate hasn't come to an end. How unanticipated
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I disagree. Asking "which other languages let me do things as if it'd been C++" is not a constructive question. "Which language has pointers" is not a good question. "Which language lets me solve problem X" is more meaningful (even if X is something vague like 'gamedev')
 
Programmers are bigoted.
 
@jalf I was joking.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Ah, that makes more sense then. :)
 
user1804599
6:49 PM
@exitc0de Do you like us?
 
I like stars
 
user1804599
We're not stars. Try again.
 
But a lot of you are unhelpful.
And anti-everything.
 
Anyway, you got an alternative. You can be happy now.
 
@exitc0de We could have told you that
 
6:50 PM
@exitc0de You can stop now. We got it.
 
Seriously, if you'd just entered this room and asked "are you guys helpful", you'd have been given that information immediately
 
You asked the question.
 
We knew it before you came in. You are not being helpful.
 
user1804599
I am Anti You.
 
Just wanted some advice.
I will look elsewhere.
 
user1804599
6:51 PM
I also want a lot of things, but I don't get them here either.
 
You got some!
 
Good luck :)
 
user1804599
Such as compliments.
 
"I don't like your random Internet people's advice. I'll look elsewhere for advice I like."
 
Your advice doesn't align with my beliefs therefore you're wrong
 
6:52 PM
@CatPlusPlus And bigoted.
 
Can we cancel those stars now
 
I don't see why.
It was not any kind of sabotage.
They're genuine stars.
 
@exitc0de Second rule of asking questions here: We don't care.
 
Stars? I see only void stars
 
user1804599
The third rule is that the rules apply even if they are not pinned.
 
6:55 PM
Very funny.
 
I swear to god xubuntu gets 100KB-3MB updates daily
every time I start up this VM it asks me to update
 
guys
I need help
 
@BartekBanachewicz we know
 
move :: Player -> Move -> GameState -> Maybe GameState
-- into:
move :: Player -> Move -> GameMonad Bool
-- or
move :: Player -> Move -> MaybeT GameMonad ()
-- or maybe
move :: Player -> Move -> Maybe GameMonad ()
 
@BartekBanachewicz moving the player can cause gamestate implosion?
 
user1804599
6:58 PM
I wonder how long it will take for aliens to decide to destroy the entire solar system after they discover we have DST.
 
Xeo
@StackedCrooked yes, if the move is invalid!
 
@StackedCrooked it can not modify the state
c'mon
I'm stuck
 
user1804599
If it doesn't modify the state it just returns the original state.
 

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