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2:01 PM
what's "the asylum"?
std-proposals?
 
Xeo
@AndyProwl So just another normal day.
 
std-proposals
 
oh ok, thanks
 
@CatPlusPlus because Windows
 
@Jefffrey enjoy :P
 
2:02 PM
;)
 
@Xeo pretty much
@sehe it gets even more interesting after
sampler:
 
For some value of interesting
 
(sorry for the length)
 
People are really getting serious about saving those keystrokes.
5
 
@AndyProwl I can find the asylum just fine. Next time, perhaps consider linking anyways :)
 
2:05 PM
@Jefffrey for the kids
 
@thecoshman The rule I use is: if it works in a sentence without the bullets, it works in a bullet list.
 
@sehe Yeah, done that
 
Though there it's fucked up with edits and copy&paste.
 
So, save those keystrokes!
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes where did you pick that up though?
 
2:06 PM
... from the ground
 
@thecoshman All over the place.
 
TOTAL RETARDATION in people
2
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes This leads me to think you shouldn't not use punctuation, as it's just a list of events that happened. Damn curiosity, sorry, @cat.
 
I should use periods.
They're independent sentences.
 
I reviewed some Pascal on codereview.se
feelsgood.jpg
 
2:10 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes I guess they are.
 
@thecoshman Well if someone on internet said so
 
Xeo
I don't care for semicolons. Never picked up how to properly use them, so eh
 
@Xeo AFAIK they are between a period and a comma.
 
@CatPlusPlus it's perfect
 
2:13 PM
@Xeo Cue oatmeal
 
For example you would use ; to connect two phrases that are not completely disjointed and not linked too much.
 
Xeo
@Jefffrey Well thanks guy. Much appreciated.
"not completely", "not too much" - riight
 
Jesus Christ; it's just something you have to feel.
(nobody knows how to use it anyway, so if you use it nobody will complain)
 
You just wait.
 
2:15 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes you can't queue (opposed to a pool cue, no?) and then play!
 
@thecoshman It's "cue".
> An action or event that is a signal for somebody to do something.
 
¬_¬ fucking Engrish
 
Well, the verb, I guess.
> To give someone a cue signal.
Also known as inb4.
 
> The fact that word and whirred are pronounced exactly the same...
yeah... I have more stress on the 'eerr' sound of whirred :S
@R.MartinhoFernandes that old chestnut :P
 
Stack Overflow lost my session & login cookie again. And it's lagging like hell
Did they rewrite the site in Java?
7
 
2:23 PM
@sehe it'...ly... us...yo...
 
@sehe Looks more like Rubby to me.
 
Ell
Woo fixed my camera
 
user1804599
WHAT?!
 
user1804599
I never gave you permissions to do that!
 
Ell
okay wait I didn't never mind
 
user1804599
2:34 PM
Good.
 
Ell
Why is emacs the only editor not lagging on my file
 
Ell
damn now I broke emacs
I break everything ;P
 
user1804599
> though I have no proof besides playing KSP to back that up
 
user1804599
> besides
 
user1804599
2:43 PM
implying
 
Backing what up?
@rightføld Simulations can be used as evidence in several contexts.
@KonradRudolph Just wait till he talks about how large functions are not bad.
It will change your idea of what a "large function" is.
 
That talk was really funny and enjoyable to watch.
 
is it just me, or you guys also think that many people come to stackoverflow not to search for an answer for their problem but to get some1 to do their job?
 
tbh I subscribed to his channel.
 
2:55 PM
Ooooooooh. #3 is out.
 
Yeah. Trying to load it now.
 
> change your for syntax from: for 1..count & for 1..count-1
to:
for 1 to count
for 1 til count

It's way easier to read & write
Top comment.
These people are just bad.
 
Ugh those ads in Google search results are annoying
 
user1804599
@ThomasPornin I would imagine it doesn't make much difference to the final speed, though, as most of the speed is gained as the comet falls deep into the Sun's gravity well (the last few hundred thousand kilometres), though I have no proof besides playing KSP to back that up. So the comet must have entered our system with an escape velocity considerably higher than the Sun's escape velocity (at which point it is questionable whether it really is "in" the solar system as it will either quickly escape or collide with something). — Thomas 13 hours ago
 
user1804599
But someone still has to prove that the simulation is correct.
 
2:57 PM
@rightføld No, they don't. Read the end of my sentence.
 
@RobsonFilhoColodeti What's your point?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes KSP is an emulation at best.
 
No idea which word meaning you're trying to change.
 
simulation
 
Ell
What is the difference between emulation and simulation?
 
2:59 PM
@Jefffrey that many don't even try to do stuff, they just ask right away for a solution on stackoverflow
 
a simulation tries to create the process, emulation just cares about the end result
 
Yeah, stop right now.
Both of those are. Not.
 
51
Q: What's the difference between simulation and emulation

userI frequently see Simulation and Emulation in computer science. These two terms seem synonymous. Is there any difference between Simulation and Emulation?

 
oh o_0 I had them backwards
 
Ell
@thecoshman I think you just had them wrong :P
 
3:00 PM
Also "at best" makes no sense there.
 
Ell
@RobsonFilhoColodeti yjanks :)
 
@RobsonFilhoColodeti Ok
 
@Jefffrey ok
@Ell so you're using a qwerty keyboard =)
 
Ell
oops.
@RobsonFilhoColodeti heh yes
 
@Ell shifted by 1 position=)
 
3:02 PM
@thecoshman Remember that the usefulness of scientific theories comes from their predictive power, not from any sense of "being right".
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes well, it's a game, it's not trying to model true orbital/aerodynamic mechanics.
 
1 min ago, by R. Martinho Fernandes
@thecoshman Remember that the usefulness of scientific theories comes from their predictive power, not from any sense of "being right".
 
yes yes I read that.
I think I need to save up and get some servers or something to play with...
start down the bath of fun robotics.
Maybe torture them... an arm with a saw and program it to cut through it's own power cable.
 
The important thing is "can KSP's model predict the comet's speed to a reasonable degree?" not "can KSP model everything perfectly?"
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes oh, silly you, when do I read the context (first)?
 
3:07 PM
@JerryCoffin Your dangerously close to depleting your helpfulness allowance for the month. AGAIN.
I won't try to elicit the obvious "that's what she said" triggers, but maybe you should really try to work on your stamina frugailty
 
The answer to the latter is "No" regardless of what you replace "KSP" with.
 
@Ell Do you break bad?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes "the perfect"
@sehe is there some meth-od to what you say?
 
I'd say that's crystal clear.
 
@sehe Meh.. just beat me.
 
3:09 PM
@sehe your name!
 
Oooh. That was low
 
which one?
 
@sehe Well, at least I'm improving. I've made it all the way from the first to the third...
@R.MartinhoFernandes Try to convince a string theorist of that!
 
I know one.
He would rather he never told me that.
 
Another twat deleted their question as I was typing a long answer. Bastards!
 
3:20 PM
> Realtime signals were codified 21 years ago in POSIX.1b. Yet they have gone implemented incorrectly in most operating systems this entire time. I hope that my post may affect change, and we can finally close that bug Stevens reported 15 years ago.
lol
 
@MartinJames Indeed. At times I've intentionally posted a thoroughly incomplete answer, then edited to add the remaining content (when I knew the answer was going to take a while).
 
@MartinJames very efficient, just re-ask it :P
 
@thecoshman You kidding - it was shite.
 
@MartinJames lol
 
Ell
@CatPlusPlus lol
 
3:23 PM
"The word for is really weird" youtube.com/…
 
> Why is this a language just "for Games"? It looks like it's just a real programming language.
ahhahaha
 
user1804599
> I was a bad programmer; turns out it's totally normal.
 
@rightføld truth
 
This one is boring.
 
> — Does the project has a public repository?
> — No, and he says in the video, that it isn't going to have, because there should not be to many decision makers. He wants the project to eventually be handled by a committee.
 
user1804599
3:27 PM
> robots can't run JavaScript, so I can't really help you
 
"Blah blah blah here's my prototype blah blah (don't tell anyone, but it kinda pretty much is Go without GC)"
 
If it's not a Lisp kernel then I'm not interested
 
Ell
hmm something about θ being too high or low or something youtube.com/watch?v=wlpDY6ye824&feature=youtu.be
 
@CatPlusPlus because that is flawless
 
People are Good at Logic
 
3:29 PM
Meta on SO slowness: 'In the meantime, I will be looking for who plugged in something into itself and deal with both' :)
 
Everybody loves switching loops
 
Ell
@R.MartinhoFernandes To be fair I think for by itsself is a bit weird.
 
"if" isn't, I bet.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes worth listening too?
 
@CatPlusPlus You mean the PHP-like ever-circulating crap?
 
Ell
3:31 PM
I think if makes sense
 
@thecoshman No
 
Ell
and "for each" makes sense
 
withEach
 
∀
 
Ell
also he appears to not know how unicode works
 
3:32 PM
I'm shocked
 
he's not the first
 
Ell
or maybe that's just me
 
Where is that bit
 
I don't know how Unicode works, I rely on the Robot to tell me when I need it :P
 
> In C++ you have double quotes for characters ('a'); I didn't see the point in them so in my language you only use one ('a).
 
3:34 PM
It's that spaceship from asteroids
 
what?
 
32:00 of this
 
Ell
He says character literals are utf-8 string literals
 
1 hour ago, by Jefffrey
People are really getting serious about saving those keystrokes.
 
@Jefffrey The whole video is just a long boring list of all his arbitrary decisions :|
 
3:34 PM
yeah
 
Ell
which might be short sighted because he wants to support any unicode character
oh wait
 
not particularly funny
 
Not even much to laugh about.
 
His defer thingy is interesting though.
 
Ell
I think he means a... codepoint
 
3:35 PM
Not for resource collection, but in general.
 
2 mins ago, by Cat Plus Plus
Where is that bit
 
@Jefffrey It's from Go.
 
@Jefffrey You mean the thing from Go
 
@CatPlusPlus Don't bother. It's the same as Go.
 
Oh
 
3:35 PM
It's Go all over.
 
The array_add is an abomination though.
Seems so PHP-ish
He admits that.
 
What's not to love? C-style casts doing reinterpret_cast, stringly typed void* passing (std::string semaphoreAddr, yes sir), system() calls, out-of-synch comments, explicit destructor calling, a big-wall-of-prose "question", external code link with incomplete code in non-compilable order? — sehe 9 secs ago
 
@Jefffrey It's kinda not so useful, really.
Well, unless you're stuck with nothing else, as is the case.
 
lol gamedevs really love 2-phase init
Does he have panics too
 
Ell
lol
it's just a joke
 
3:39 PM
> Everybody knows good compiler test involves lots of particle stuff
 
Ell
It's so unfair that he was somewhat successful :(
 
lol
He goes on about how other languages like Rust and Go have these special entities (macros in Rust, not sure what in Go) to say, check format strings in printf.
 
user1804599
> synch
 
Then he presents the marvellous solution he came up with.
 
The one he reinvented?
 
3:41 PM
Special entities he called "directives".
 
user1804599
@R.MartinhoFernandes Printf format strings aren't statically checked in Go.
 
Xeo
@CatPlusPlus T____T
PTSD
 
@rightføld Yeah, I thought so too, and he clearly doesn't know any language other than C++ no! I mean C.
 
Xeo
two-phase init tortured me last week
 
user1804599
 
3:42 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes Compiler hooks are totally not special!
 
user1804599
Not even a panic.
 
Can you imagine Puppy doing a 2hr rant about all his decisions in Wide?
 
Ell
@R.MartinhoFernandes yeah
then he says a real printf should be very long
 
Ahahaha printf debugging in printf implementation
3
 
Xeo
wat
 
3:43 PM
@rightføld Isn't "%s" the magical format specifier for "just do everything you can to try and print this"?
 
"It's not a macro language"
 
user1804599
> %s the uninterpreted bytes of the string or slice
 
Oh, confused with %v.
 
user1804599
Ah wait.
 
3:44 PM
I like that he couldn't decide whether you have to end the magic directive with ; or not
 
user1804599
> If the %v verb is used with the # flag (%#v) and the operand implements the GoStringer interface, that will be invoked.
 
Ell
he has a bug in his printf checker
it doesn't support strings he says
 
Fair enough. It's a prototype he mashed up for a demo.
 
"I'm not running it, I'm compiling it"
 
Ell
I think running anything at compile time is cool
#run invaders();
oh he does it just now
 
3:47 PM
Not very useful
 
@Ell Interpreters are very old technology.
 
Ell
@R.MartinhoFernandes still cool though
 
That expression-level #run is way more useful
But it's not a macro language guys
 
Still not like Scheme
 
Hahaha and then it didn't work
 
3:50 PM
Not sure how its demo is showing anything
 
aaaaaa client is making new Drupal tasks aaaaaaa
 
@TonyTheLion the robot doesn't even know, not really :P
@R.MartinhoFernandes I JIT in my pants
 
Hahaha PSN leaked data again
 
@CatPlusPlus something about being shock.
'jai' he's trolling right?
 
Make it a self- contained example. Your "my usage" code makes zero sense, full stop. What is this: this,vector,boost sharedPtr,boost::ref(vector[i]::iterator), 0)? — sehe 11 secs ago
Fools
 
4:00 PM
@sehe lol
 
The funny thing is, he took the pool implementation from one of my own answer, but left the includes out, just to make it harder :)
 
4:15 PM
I wish people stopped using words 'interpreting', 'interpreter', 'interpreted' wrt programming languages
 
Running things at compile-time is only significantly different from running a pre-build step if you can actually interact with compiler internals.
(Hence fuck TMP factorial)
 
@CatPlusPlus :c
what did I do wrong
 
Ell
@R.MartinhoFernandes I'm not sure. I think loading stuff from a file and generating code based on it is useful
actually that's interacting with the compiler I guess
 
@Ell Yes, which you can do with a pre-build step just fine.
@Ell "internals"
 
Ell
You can do anything with the source code though
 
4:18 PM
Integrated codegen is okay, but not a killer feature by any means
 
What's wrong with using "interpreting" wrt programming languages?
 
Well valuegen
 
Ell
you could run your source code through clang and generate serialization stuff as a pre build process
 
That implementation can't generate code
Unless it was somewhere later
 
@Ell What do you mean by "anything"?
@Ell That's not loading stuff from a file.
 
4:19 PM
Sfar I've seen it's just running code inside the compiler and baking in returned values
 
That's far cry from codegen
It's not a macro language guys
 
If you wanna see cool stuff look at a Katahdin or Boo.
 
Ell
@R.MartinhoFernandes Right, that was just an example
this is a different example
 
(Boo! It has my code in it)
 
Ell
4:20 PM
Boo is for .net isn't it?
 
Run your code in Boo in Katahdin!
 
Actually you can also target the JVM.
But yes, it's geared towards .NET.
 
Is it still alive?
 
Ell
Ahh I'm an idiot
 
4:21 PM
There's activity behind the curtains.
Quite active recently, to be honest.
 
Ell
what I thought was a problem with my spherical coordinates is a problem with lookAt
 
They're prepping a big update.
 
I see some commits, but latest release is from 3 years ago
 
Yeah, everyone's discussing how we really need a release.
> I'm going to be UTF-8 natively; I probably am already
I have no idea what "probably" means there.
 
"I don't know what I'm doing"
 
4:24 PM
Wait, emacs sucks at UTF-8?
Or is it a PEBKAC?
 
Unlikely
But I haven't used it much so dunno
 
Seems totally PEBKAC.
 
It's the second time I almost fall asleep on this video, and I'm only in the middle.
 
I just clicked at few random points
 
@Jefffrey Yeah, I'm doing a lot of productive work while I listen.
Ha!
He doesn't realise how much he bit.
He says captures in lambdas are not implemented, but it's not the highest impact feature right now.
 
4:33 PM
lol
 
He doesn't want GC, and doesn't want C++'s ref/value dichotomy, and doesn't want Rust's "bureaucratic" correctness.
 
Good luck with closures
 
Not high impact.
 
I have lambdas. They're useless, but I have them!
I uh neglected some threads
 
Meh - net router went funny so I power-cycled it my pulling out the PS plug. When plugged in again, it would not power up - no lights, nothing. I took out router and PS to another room/power - still nothing. Moaning and wailing and gnashing teeth, I started it box it up for return to provider. Then I noticed that it had a power switch on the side that was easily knocked...
 
4:41 PM
lol
He had weird problems with FFIing into strdup.
I wonder why.
 
strduh
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Well, what a stupid idea. Why would anyone want to turn an ADSL router off other than by unplugging the PS?
 
To make power cycling easier for example
 
Wow, he said something that makes sense.
"Visual Studio is a piece of junk."
Wait, two things.
"emacs is a piece of junk"
 
So he's implementing an editor now too?
 
4:47 PM
@CatPlusPlus :(
 
> I do agree that we need a new OS
 
@CatPlusPlus You're thinking too low.
 
OS and Text Editor for Games
Talk #58302
Demo!
 
> We will do something to make it much better than C; what that something is is not fully decided [wrt concurrency]
Rainbows!
 
4:49 PM
lol
Go jai routines
Now with 40 thousand more issues thanks to no GC
 
> There's already more support for custom allocators than there is in C++ just because new, delete, and free are not so freaking convoluted
> Q: Why C for the compiler's language? Have you considered Go?
A: No, I did not consider Go because Go is garbage collected and therefore we can't use it
5
 
Wait, what
Why the fuck would that matter for the compiler
 
Because it's a language for games!
 
That's it, we've reached peak Psyduck
 
> peak Psyduck
lol
 
4:56 PM
@CatPlusPlus here: youtube.com/…
2
It was worth the wait until the questions.
 
Isn't this video documenting stuff
 
> By being specific he can attract the right crowd. Games(including console dev, not just casual) has its own unique blend of requirements: low level performance right down to C/asm plus rapid turnaround like a scripting language. Nothing else out there targets this exact niche; all 'productivity' languages are garbage collected (even apple-swift is refcounted, probably relying on key bits of C++ in platform framework code); and other 'efficient' languages sacrifice productivity significantly.
I have to watch this once I get home
 
Spoiler: it's Go with an interpreter and without garbage collection.
 
@AlexM. Not very interesting
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes lol that guy again
 
5:00 PM
@Rapptz git rm --cached :v
 
what the fuck
data() member has noexcept
 
Why would it not?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes how am I supposed to turn a std::allocator_traits<T>::pointer into T* under noexcept if the supposed mechanic for it, std::pointer_traits<Ptr>::pointer_to is not?
also I have no clue what is going on with my internet, I can stream and game just fine but new HTTP connections takes ages (10+ sec) to start up, making browsing just impossible
 
Sounds like something interesting in the middle.
 
5:19 PM
@nightcracker My interwebs are shit today as well. Timeouts, retries etc.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes oh wait I'm retarded, pointer_to is not meant for that at all, I should use std::addressof I think
 
5:33 PM
> Do you think of yourself as Elon Musk of indie gaming?
 
@nightcracker Well if you're retarded, at least you'll be easy to start up.
 
5:46 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes lol
 

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