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12:00 AM
right.
figured I'd bite the bullet and pay Google like £3 a month to have email at my domain.
 
@Jefffrey you didn't. Yet you brought zarroo arguments why you couldn't write it cleaner. See e.g.
34 mins ago, by Jefffrey
Returning a data object for this kind of problem sounds like an overkill.
@Puppy Ha. I pay fastmail a similar amount
 
I know, that's a viable way.
I just don't like it.
 
user1646075
@sehe "The wheels on the bus go round and round. Round and round. Round and round."
 
It's not something I would expect from such an interface.
 
@sehe Well, I already use free personal gmail, and they actually handle multiple gmails really well. I have gmail for work email too so it's pretty convenient.
 
12:04 AM
@Jefffrey You know. You have to ask yourself why. This is Haskell, not some kind of imperative shit
 
lol
 
@Puppy IMO if that does actually matter, they're doing something wrong about email ?
 
Anyway, didn't we agree the function was doing too much?
 
I dunno. You didn't say
 
Yes, I do.
 
12:06 AM
@sehe What do you mean?
 
Maybe multiple return values (index, string, length) is also a smell of that.
 
@Puppy email should work right and convenient regardless of the providers involved, IMO. No lockin, please
 
probably
but I'm happier with a provider which I know is convenient.
 
So it's not actually more convenient, you just like that it all looks the same :)
So, forward the mail or read it all through your fav MUA :)
 
well, it is convenient to be able to flip between accounts very easily
and with no effort on my part.
 
12:08 AM
My MUA can do that for my accounts
 
good
personally I'm glad that I don't have to know or care what a MUA is.
 
@Mysticial: Yet another "why is it slow when I turn off optimization?" I almost feel like I ought to write up a detailed answer comparing generated code for a few sample constructs, so we can close these as duplicates when they come (since they continue to do so).
 
@Puppy lol, good luck mailing without one
 
@sehe Implementation detail.
 
@Puppy Mail User Agent--whatever you use to send/receive mail. I guess now I've ruined your blissful ignorance. Oh well, my bad.
 
12:10 AM
upside down. SMTP protocol (among others) is an implementation detail to MUA and MTA
 
@JerryCoffin I was trying to come up with some analogy involving running a car without an engine, but it didn't work out.
 
@Mysticial more like, without the controls; technically, you can drive it (like you can use telnet imap.google.com 25)
The engine would be more the the MTA
Hi btw
 
hey
 
@Mysticial Not so much like a car without an engine as a prototype with a lawn-mower engine...
 
Or a slow-motion video of a horse running so you can actually see how the legs move as opposed to full speed when you can't see anything.
 
12:14 AM
I'm not a serious email user and I can't stand webmail
 
@Mysticial That's actually pretty decent.
 
It is a horse analogy
 
@CatPlusPlus I'm not a serious person in general. It doesn't do to take life too seriously--nobody gets out a live anyway.
 
@sehe btw, we're talking about this question:
-1
Q: VS 2013 C++ executable speed in debug mode extremely slow

bpeikesHave a managed windows C++ application. When I run it in debug mode, it's much slower than in release. Much more so than I expect. One particular issue I've found is that clearing large several large deque structures will take minutes in debug, and take milliseconds in release. In VS 2008, there...

 
@Mysticial hehe
@CatPlusPlus likewise
 
12:20 AM
@CatPlusPlus Life is a sexually transmitted disease with a 100% fatality rate.
 
That's sick.
@Jefffrey coliru.stacked-crooked.com/a/ccb84f2d4663d653 have a smelly present
 
user1646075
12:35 AM
Language is a virus, communicated orally.
 
user1646075
I believe we have William S Burroughs to thank for that quip.
 
Hello, Noobs.
 
@Jefffrey And here's because you must know it's pretty efficient :) goo.gl/bVBBDS
 
w00t 90 rep from one answer, feels good :D
 
cg
 
12:49 AM
@sehe Because it doesn't compile so it's never run? :P
 
@Borgleader +10 now
 
this is an interesting article about past quarantines in the US arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/11/…
 
@Jefffrey ?!
 
sort of a follow up to that nurse avoiding the quarantine thing
 
Also, running live on Coliru
 
12:50 AM
> Between 1917-18, quarantine was widely used in the United States during the influenza pandemic, which killed as many as 50 million globally and up to 675,000 in the United States.
shit, that's a lot of deaths
 
oh well.
Buy a better internet ;0
Ah. Saving the compiler selection would be too much of a feature I guess :0
 
@sehe woah this is neat o.o
 
indeed it is
 
@Jefffrey You did manually change the compiler, right? Because for me the link does what it should (cross browser)
 
12:54 AM
woah, that's weird
I clicked it again and now it compiles
doesn't keep the selection, but compiles
 
@Code-Apprentice Talking to me?
Hehe.
Day 9: Keyboard still malfunctioning. Most keys are working, but press other keys along with them. Progress has been made.
 
Ell
1:10 AM
Evening
 
user1646075
Good day, sir
 
@Nooble and all the other noobs here, too
 
@Rapptz ok, I've read the ending now too
meh, I guess it was ok
 
It's too short.
 
wish he got the other girl instead
 
1:21 AM
Nah.
Hinata deserves it way more than Sakura.
 
I like naruto though
he's a badass who saved the world
not bad for a genin
the ending is short yes
feels rushed
 
He wasn't a genin the entire time lol
 
OMFG SPOILER TAGS
FFS
 
what, did he get to pass his exam in the unshown timeskip?
 
lmao
Oops
I thought he was a Jonin during the whole Ninja War thing.
 
1:24 AM
I don't think he was ever officially promoted
let me read the wiki
> Part I: Genin

Part II: Genin

Epilogue: <not showing ya>
 
Borgleader gtfo'd pretty quickly
totally my bad
I forgot other people read/watch naruto
 
I had no idea there were others besides me
until you told us about it
 
Hmm...so I think I need a second opinion. Is this comment as helpful as I think it is?
The error is on line 42.Oh wait, based on the String^, I divine that you're using one of Microsoft's warped imitations of C++, not the real thing. This being the case, the error is more likely on line 666. — Jerry Coffin 2 mins ago
:-)
 
Boss told me today
"I personally view automatic memory management and using other libraries as a bit of a crutch"
 
@caps Time to fire your boss.
 
1:33 AM
can anyone explain in "possible implementation" the middle line? en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/types/is_array
template<class T> struct is_array<T[]> : std::true_type {};
when is this ever used?
 
std::unique_ptr<T[]>?
 
user1646075
@caps My Ideal application is # include "application_library"; Application app(); exit(0);
 
@orlp T[] is an array type too.
 
@Rapptz I forgot what T[] means, I always though it was just an alias for a pointer
 
It'd be silly to not consider it.
@orlp No. Arrays are not pointers.
They just so happen to decay to pointers when passed to functions.
 
1:36 AM
What is the difference between T[] and T*?
 
One is an array, the other is a pointer?
 
are they functionally indistinguishable?
 
user1646075
@orlp no. [ ] allocates space. * merely refers to one or many T
 
user1646075
[] should never be used in function definitions merely because it causes questions like this.
 
@aclarke how can [] allocate space if it doesn't know how much
 
user1646075
1:37 AM
@orlp well, I'm assuming you put something in the middle there.
 
At my university a student got a negative grade due to wrongly answering too many multiple-choice questions. Then a "root factor" was applied to everybody's grade, i.e. newGrade = sqrt(grade) + grade. This student therefore had the dubious honour of being the first student in university history to receive a complex number as his final grade.dotancohen 11 hours ago
8
 
@aclarke I'm talking about the case where there is NOTHING in the middle, just T[]
 
user1646075
T ftn(X x[]) is exactly synonymous with Tftn(X *x) by ancient edict of the inventors of C.
 
@Rapptz yes, but when would I actually have/use some T[] around?
 
1:39 AM
library user provides a typedef that aliases to int[]
or whatever
or you want to specialise on T[] like std::unique_ptr
 
@orlp you ask the same question 6 times in a row
 
@orlp String literals have an array type
 
@CatPlusPlus but with a size, no?
 
There's no such thing as unsized array type
 
user1646075
the original plan in C was to allow you to suggest that while one argument might point to a single X, another argument that happens to be a pointer is pointing to a bunch of them. As such, it helped comprehension
 
1:40 AM
@CatPlusPlus then what is T[]
 
T[] is T*
 
user1646075
* if implying you'll fiddle with one. [] if implying you'll fiddle with many
 
according to Rapptz there is some difference
 
there is
 
in type deduction maybe
but is there ever a functional difference?
 
1:41 AM
@JerryCoffin "not saying that they are inherently bad, just saying that if you spend too much time focusing on them, you don't focus on the actual work"
 
why do you care about a functional difference when your context is templates?
is T[] an array type or not? That's all the trait asks for.
 
You can do whatever you want, in my code I "loop" from node inside the loop (the second` select_nodes`). I suggest a declarative style, instead of your imperative style thinking. (Think "what should happen", not "how should it be done") — sehe 27 secs ago
 
because I may or may not have to adapt the place where I use std::array to account for the fact that T[] can be passed in
 
god C++ just can't decide
 
hint: look at std::extent next
 
1:42 AM
Forget I said anything
 
ITT cat was hoping to take offense with more VLA bashing?
 
Wait, that's a VLA type?
 
no
 
50 secs ago, by Cat Plus Plus
Forget I said anything
 
No I really thought T[] and T* are the same type
istr they were
But maybe not
 
1:44 AM
@CatPlusPlus I thought the same
until I saw std::array<T[]>
@Rapptz can an object ever have type T[]?
 
mmmm. starting to doubt it now, ... somehow my mind read that differently
 
T[] is called an "array of unknown bound" according to the standard.
 
but they can't be used as a type?
 
user1646075
well, would a template ever want to know if a type is an actual allocation of N items, compared to an actual pointer to an item.
 
it's used in type deduction/specialisations
you can do using x = int[] for example
 
1:46 AM
but can you ever have an object of type int[]?
 
no
 
then what the fuck is it's purpose
 
sigh
5 lines up
 
that's not a purpose
that's a legally valid C++ example
 
C++: we don't know what the fuck vOv
 
1:48 AM
gimme a sec
 
Ell
I'm exhausted
 
user1646075
// the only allocatable concrete lumps of memory
int x;
int *xp = &x;
int xa[10];
int *x0 = &xa[0];
int *x1 = &xa[1];
 
@orlp You can't have an object of type T[], but you can have a declaration of type T[]. Classic example: int x[whatever]; in one file, and extern int x[]; in another file.
 
user1646075
NOW - it happens that you could use x1 to access xa[4] by saying x1[3]; but that would be grubby in most cases.
 
user1646075
1:53 AM
anything else is 'declaration'
 
we should make a chatroom in the portuguese version of stackoverflow and call it Salão<C++>
 
user1646075
@AlexM. rọgbọkú<C++> because the Yoruba people need more representation
 
wow congratulations on decaying an array to a pointer
everyone already knows this
 
user1646075
@Rapptz who?
 
1:54 AM
orlp
 
user1646075
about declaractions:
 
sometimes I wonder if knowing all of these innards of C++ really pays off
this T[] stuff looks like some obscure shit to me
 
user1646075
@AlexM. yes, because it stops confusion like this.
 
that I'd first of all avoid in any situation where I'd have a call
 
@AlexM. it's only useful for generic programming
 
1:56 AM
@AlexM. Depends if you want to maintain sanity or not
 
user1646075
Lesson 1 was old-school C level allocation. Lesson 2 will be about function declarations.
 
@Rapptz so T[] is some weird factory type who's only purpose is to magically instantiate objects of different types when constructed with a braced init list?
 
no
it's an array type of unknown bound
 
@Rapptz also your static assert is totally useless: coliru.stacked-crooked.com/a/f32fcf90141253af
 
I know it is
 
1:58 AM
no, the sign should be flipped >= 5
not <= 5
 
I was too lazy to do == 0 || >= 5
std::extent<T[]> returns 0
and T[0] is illegal
 
@orlp If __PRETTY_FUNCTION__ had a well enough defined role to be able to say anything meaningful about it, I'd call that a bug.
 
@JerryCoffin it's pointer decay
 
@orlp It's a pointer decay in a situation where it shouldn't happen though.
Oh, actually I take that back: it should happen here. If you passed the array by reference it shouldn't though.
 
user1646075
How can they understand template activity if the basics of the issue are not understood in simple function and extern declarations?
 
user1646075
2:05 AM
once the concept of how a [] is not the same as a * but can decay into one, THEN the needs of templates can be understood
 
user1646075
I feel the basics need to be explained. How would that be done clearly ;-/
 
2:18 AM
I hate Skype so much.
 
W: See /var/cache/pbuilder/build/14486/./debootstrap/debootstrap.log for details (possibly the package package is at fault)
E: debootstrap failed
W: Aborting with an error
I: cleaning the build env
I: removing directory /var/cache/pbuilder/build//14486 and its subdirectories
Cool thanks
 
this is funnier in hindsight
 
lol yeah
sakura would have still been a better choice
that girl can hit hard
hinata can't assert :\
too shy for it
 
iunno
Of all characters in Naruto Hinata is the cutest for me
and I like me some kawaii.
 
Ell
Waifu
Tsundere
 
2:26 AM
yeah but sakura has that dominatrix aura around her
 
Ell
Anime
Otaku
 
Senpai
 
If you actually read Hinata's quotes and then she didn't end up with Naruto it'd be too depressing.
That'd be super cruel lol
I like depressing stories more than most people but that'd be just cruel
 
a guy on a forum replies to me
> he would have gotten the chick if it was sakura, in this case it's more like hinata got the guy.
this... is kinda true
 
yes
sorta
Naruto no longer liked Sakura.
 
2:29 AM
I should edit my post
 
Two things showcase it really.
 
I guess in the end naruto wasn't that good, even for a genin
/joke
 
1) Naruto got really defensive over Hinata during Pain Arc.
2) Sakura tried to lie to Naruto about liking him and that backfired hard.
He didn't even buy it or care lol
 
yeah naruto was the only guy acting naturally about stuff like that
I still can't explain sakura's attachment to sasuke
 
Yeah me neither.
> Is there any video game character that can beat madara?
And I'm not talking about Edo Tensei Uchiha Madara. Hell, I'm not even talking about Gedou Rinne Tensei Uchiha Madara. I'm not talking Juubi Jinchuuriki Gedou Rinne Tensei Uchiha Madara. I'm talking about Sage of Six Paths Uchiha Madara with the Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan and Rinnegan doujutsus (with the rikodou abilities and being capable of both Amateratsu and Tsukuyomi genjutsu), equipped with his Gunbai, a perfect Susano'o, control of the juubi and Gedou Mazou, with Hashirama Senju's DNA implanted in him so he has mokuton kekkei
this is the best copy pasta
It'll never get old
the latest movie trailer
 
2:36 AM
there's a mate with whom I want to talk about naruto but he won't read the manga
now I have to wait 2+ years for shippuden to end
 
@Rapptz do you see anything I'm missing here? coliru.stacked-crooked.com/a/656fd7ea4f61dee0
 
why is it so complicated
 
because std::swap requires move constructors and assignment
if it wasn't this complicated is_swappable<A, A> would be true, despite the fact that std::swap(a, b) with A a, b; would be a compilation error
@Rapptz but it's perfectly possible that you can write a friend swap for an object that's not movable, the standard allows it
@Rapptz but if you think of anything less complicated, by all means do let me know
 
3:42 AM
wtf, can anyone explain this? coliru.stacked-crooked.com/a/69381f67ae809e33
 
user1646075
what's to explain/
 
why isn't the swap noexcept?
 
Sometimes I have really dumb ideas.
I once wrote an header file of interface functions that do nothing but set some template parameters.
All the actual parameters were just passed through.
 
@orlp noexcept(noexcept(...))
 
@Rapptz no? that's for function specification
 
3:48 AM
Some of them didn't even set template parameters, they just passed a pointer parameter, and so a template parameter wasn't even needed
 
@Rapptz here I'm just querying and printing the value
 
right
it's because it's a 2D array
 
and why would that not be noexcept?
 
well that leaves the question why are multidimensional arrays not nothrow move constructable?
ah because they aren't move constructable to begin with
@Rapptz but no, that's wrong
 
3:53 AM
is it
 
@Rapptz there's an overload for arrays in std::swap
 
for 1D arrays
this is a 2D array
 
@Rapptz 2D arrays are 1D arrays of 1D arrays?
 
interesting
 
so, according to my intuition
noexcept(swap(x, y)) where x, y are some multidimensional array of type T[bla][bla][bla] should recursively come down to noexcept(swap(std::declval<T&>(), std::declval<T&>()))
@Rapptz it is noexcept in clang++
 
@Rapptz you're using libc++
@Rapptz try with stdlibc++
 
Hi everyone, just curious to know, are there are solutions other than CGI to make web applications using C++? Its the matter of performance.
 
I don't see why that matters.
template<class T>
void
swap(T& a, T& b) noexcept(is_nothrow_move_constructible<T>::value &&
is_nothrow_move_assignable<T>::value);
template <class T, size_t N>
void
swap(T (&a)[N], T (&b)[N]) noexcept(noexcept(swap(*a, *b)));
function signature in libc++
 
@Rapptz well, did you look at the repro I linked you?
 
yes
 
4:08 AM
this is really weird
@Rapptz where did you get this signature from?
 
I love bugchecks
Not disruptive at all
Now which piece of shit driver failed to handle a goddamn exception
 
@Rapptz I'm fairly convinced this should be noexcept and is a compiler/standard library bug
0
Q: Why is swapping multidimensional arrays not noexcept?

orlpI have the following snippet: #include <algorithm> #include <iostream> int main(int argc, char** argv) { int x[2][3]; int y[2][3]; using std::swap; std::cout << noexcept(swap(x, y)) << "\n"; return 0; } Using GCC 4.9.0, this prints 0. I don't understand why. According t...

 
4:23 AM
upboated
 
thanks good sir tips fedora for your upboat
also why on earth is indenting using tab still impossible in the SO question/answer editor?
 
Don't use tabs. They are bad and they make you feel bad.
 
user1646075
because browsers suck?
 
... tabs are great
 
@Mysticial of course not
@Mysticial I mean physically pressing tab
 
4:26 AM
Tabs are a second task bar
 
@Mysticial to insert 4 spaces
 
:-)
 
user1646075
@orlp evil. Tabs are defined to be 8 spaces. By old typewriters. Tab = 4, tab = 2, tab = 3 AAARRRGGGHHHHHHHHH. Standards!
 
@aclarke Can we fucking not use standards that are entirely irrelevant today? Almost everyone I know that codes presses the "tab" key on your keyboard to indent whatever amount they have set in their editor. No one spams spaces.
 
user1646075
ok, pick one! Send it to ISO
 
4:29 AM
this is SO
 
user1646075
the fact is, embedded tabs are now completely sucky.
 
who cares about ISO
 
user1646075
I've trained my editor to replace them with spaces, and I scream at anyone here who allows them to embed.
 
@orlp I use tabs to indent. I just don't use the tab character.
 
@Mysticial I'm not even talking about the tab character.
@Mysticial my complaint is that pressing the "tab key" on your keyboard jumps to the next field in the form you use to edit questions/answer
 
4:31 AM
C++ gave Virtualbox the freedom to bring down entire system on bad memory access
 
user1646075
@orlp Also I choose to drive on the right hand side of the road from now on, because I want to see what it's like in Europe and USA
 
I'm so glad
 
@orlp oh
I thought you were trying to start a tabs vs. spaces war. :(
 
no
I was complaining about the editor used on the website
 
user1646075
6 mins ago, by aclarke
because browsers suck?
 
4:32 AM
Hey Oracle how about you handle SEH exceptions in your privileged code
 
@aclarke It's default behaviour in every browser to have tab jump to the next field in a form. This is a sane default, but not for the editing box on a programmers website. It's SO's job to override it, not because browsers suck.
 
user1646075
@orlp but you gotta admit, browsers suck.
 
SO sucks more
Also ugh websites hijacking browser shortcuts
 
SO sucks.
Browsers suck.
The internet sucks.
Everything sucks. Including your mother.
 
READ_ADDRESS: ffffffffffffffff
Good job VBox
 
user1646075
4:35 AM
probably the use of tab to jump around is the original sucky offence perpetrated by codesters writing forms and wondering if they could use that otherwise useless key over there
 
user1646075
@Mysticial not on that one critical night
 
Dammit. The only time I've ever successfully pulled off a your mom joke in this room was this:
Nov 29 '13 at 10:46, by Mysticial
In C++, everything is throwable. Including your mother.
Never was I ever able to do it again.
 
how does everyone here have this insane google-fu for chat
 
user1646075
@Mysticial and that was a mighty fine one
 
user1646075
@CatPlusPlus Sub-Ependymal Hemorrhages?
 
4:38 AM
fuck; you need a license to use new cufft features, I suspect I might need to start using OpenCL
 
I'm shocked
 
user1646075
@Mikhail there's a missing comma there somewhere.
 
lol
 
user1646075
@CatPlusPlus and appalled?
 
Extremely
 
4:40 AM
I just realized that Iron Maiden was scared of the dark
 
user1646075
I just realised that Sade and Fela Kuti are members of the Yaruba, so they're now my favourite west african ethnic group.
 
@orlp maybe site:chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/10/
 
4:57 AM
Holy shit, my grandfather's quarter collection just keeps getting bigger and bigger.
I swear he has like more than 100lb of them...
 
if you remove the specialization it only prints true
 
5:50 AM
How significant is the ordering of books in this question?
4275
Q: The Definitive C++ Book Guide and List

grepsedawkThis question attempts to collect the few pearls among the dozens of bad C++ books that are published every year. Unlike many other programming languages, which are often picked up on the go from tutorials found on the Internet, few are able to quickly pick up C++ without studying a well-written...

i.e. how important is it to go through "More Effective C++" before "Exceptional C++"?
 
Not important at all in this case.
 
user1646075
depends on whether you want to be Exceptional or Effective.
 
@aclarke lol
 
lol
 
I do think it makes sense to read Effective before Exceptional. The ‘More’ books though are not as important. Hence why Effective is not in the same group as Exceptional, come to think of it.
 
5:55 AM
Do you want to be exceptionally effective? Or effectively exceptional?
 
6:07 AM
It might also be all those <br>s. That's a syntax error :p — Rapptz 12 secs ago
 
6:23 AM
haha
the question is already gone
Just realized the main reason no one else in my company sees the need for RAII is because, so far, we almost never use exceptions.
Why is it called RAII, anyway?
When people talk about RAII they talk about things that aren't even strictly Initialization? ex. a resource acquisition that happens outside of a constructor but is handled in the destructor
 
6:59 AM
@caps it's called RAII because Bjarne called it so ;-)
 
@caps Alf once told me it also means that allocation and initialization should be part of one transaction.
Sep 24 '11 at 5:10, by Alf P. Steinbach
@StackedCrooked it's about both. single phase initialization is practically necessary for doing automated cleanup via destructors.
 

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