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12:00 AM
@rightføld try it
 
@aclarke It's german, it'll cost you I'm afraid
 
user1804599
@StackedCrooked try "Bückstabü"
 
@StackedCrooked words?
 
user1804599
backstabbing lol
 
you mean characters?
 
user1646075
12:00 AM
@Columbo not at the rate of comedy. You really think you'll miss something???
 
@aclarke Haha, well played.
 
user1804599
> According to Richard Z. Kruspe, "B********" does not stand for "Bastard", but for "Bückstabü," a word made up by the band to mean "whatever you want."
 
Good night. (Although my current case won't let me much sleep)
 
no, he meant words
yeah, I just saw
 
user1646075
12:01 AM
@rightføld sort of like Fnord
 
user1804599
@Jefffrey I saw you.
 
user1804599
I saw your fucking head off.
 
no wait
 
@rightføld gimme a sec, I just found out how to build the documentation properly
 
I don't wanna
 
user1646075
12:01 AM
What??? Urban dictionary and the internets is getting the definition of fnord all wrong
 
user1804599
bückkake
 
it's so annoying that the plugin can't use the info from the generated documentation and show it to me while I'm hovering over said units
 
yes, we get it, you like bukkake
 
user1804599
i dream of bukkake
 
user1646075
@Jefffrey from which side?
 
user1804599
12:02 AM
we should organise a Lounge<C++> bukkake
 
user1646075
@rightføld ewwwww.
 
user1646075
Soggy Sao
 
Note: don't let rightfold organise any events
6
 
I'd rather not participate, thanks.
lol
 
user1804599
oh cum on
 
user1804599
12:03 AM
my face
 
user1646075
SMS COLUMBO!
 
@aclarke side?
 
user1804599
SMS COLUMBUS!
 
user1646075
@Jefffrey receiving or standing
 
I guess he likes receiving
maybe both
 
user1646075
12:04 AM
it's only fair
 
user1804599
hey jefff what's your last name?
 
user1804599
I need a last name for the main character in my game.
 
pigarelli
 
user1646075
@rightføld "ry"
 
I need to cut my finger nails
 
user1804599
12:05 AM
Jeffrey Pizzarelli. Great.
 
lol
 
user1804599
Especially since the game is set in England, not Italy.
 
@rightføld Wrong. Should be Pizzzarellli.
 
user1804599
Pizza rally.
 
user1804599
Jeffrey Piccalilli.
 
12:06 AM
Weekend away in the mountains bushwalking/hiking seems less appealing after 60 hours working week ...
 
I'm AFK for a while
 
user1804599
I should try piccalilli. I never ate it.
 
user1646075
@Jefffrey I kept telling you that
 
Ell
I got engrossed in integration today
 
chmod has probably the highest ratio of non-sequiturs to normal conversations.
 
Ell
12:07 AM
Hopefully I can tomorrow too
 
user1646075
@Ell for some strange definition of engrossed
 
user1646075
@milleniumbug is infinity a ratio?
 
user1804599
@chmod711telkitty Do you work at Foxconn or what?
 
user1804599
Who works 60 hours per week.
 
buh. I don't get this. Every internet resource is saying this answer is right but test keeps saying it's wrong :\
 
12:13 AM
> throw 1; // this is my "breakpoint"
 
@AlexM. sexist...
 
@Borgleader It's not sexist to hate guys. Sexism only applies to women.
 
nevermind the tests were just awful
 
Wow, Googling "don quichotte One Piece" leads to French pages.
 
@StackedCrooked omelette du fromage
 
user1804599
12:19 AM
@StackedCrooked try "donkey shot one piece"
 
Ell
Hmm how do I store meshes in the scene graph
Scratch that
 
poor Smoker never wins
 
Ell
How do I store meshes at all
 
in memory
 
12:22 AM
@Ell on ze gpu o.o
 
user1804599
@StackedCrooked wat is het toch altijd met Luffy en z'n blije bakkes?
 
Broodje Bakpao :D
Broodje Bakpao was a big hit in Belgium as well :)
 
Ell
@Borgleader I'm trying to decouple mesh data from rendering
I don't know if this is possible to do cleanly
What with shaders requiring certain vertex attributes
 
user1804599
@StackedCrooked New Kids is great.
 
Ell
I could tag meshes with what attributes they support I suppose
 
user1804599
12:24 AM
I saw New Kids Turbo in the cinema.
 
user1804599
The room was full of kamptuig.
 
dont make custom vertex "formats" for everything, make a small set of widely applicable ones
 
"kamptuig", never heard or read that word before
 
user1804599
tuig van 't kamp
 
user1804599
cosy people you shouldn't play tricks with
 
12:26 AM
sjorren?
 
Ell
@Borgleader I'm just trying to make it generic really
 
user1804599
@StackedCrooked nono, wagenkamp
 
Ell
I know most stuff will just need positions, normals and uvs
 
user1804599
Don't know maybe that's not common in Belgium.
 
@Ell too generic is complicated for nothing AND sucks for performance because of all the state changes
 
12:27 AM
wat een langzame kutmuziek, lol
 
start with something that works
 
user1804599
 
Ell
Yeah. That's how I've started today with my MeshRenderer
I'm just going to play with a few ideas
Performance isn't really an issue though
 
"waar is kraan" was also a big hit around here
@rightføld oh, I see
scum
 
user1804599
ja, tuig
 
Ell
12:30 AM
@Borgleader generic doesn't have to be slow or complicated I don't think
 
user1804599
Or similar, theikenaren.
 
@Ell the more vertex formats you have the more shaders you have to maintain. and i say again, opengl state changes are costly cpu wise
 
user1804599
> During the WWI, about 700 refugees from Belgium lived in Schijf.
 
user1804599
TIL
 
i was reading about this (in OpenGL Insights) this morning, and basically how one of the best ways of improving performance is to track the states on the application side, update them only when they change (to avoid redundant updates) AND sort your meshes by material and such to reduce the number of changes from one material to the next
 
Ell
12:35 AM
Really? O.o
Seems like duplication of effort
 
user1804599
> Chocolate and cocoa contain moderate to high amounts of oxalate, which can cause some health concerns particularly for individuals at risk for kidney stones.
 
user1804599
Didn't puppy have those
 
user1804599
Or am I mistaken?
 
They actually took i think it was Quake 3's engine, and modded it to instead of tracking state changes to always go back to a default state after drawing things
and the tracking method was 11% faster than the default state method
now imagine if you introduced more state changes
 
user1804599
Dec 24 '12 at 0:38, by DeadMG
nah
 
user1804599
12:39 AM
Ah, I'm luckily mistaken.
 
(afaik Quake 3 sorted their meshes by material type, so if they didnt there would be more changes)
 
Ell
At the minute
I'm thinking of a way where switching out different renderers will be easy
That's basically what I want to achieve
In addition to that I want it to error if a particular renderer can't be used
I'm thinking of just passing the whole scene graph to the renderer which traverses it and renders the meshes
But then some meshes will want different shaders than others
And idk how I'm going to do that kind of thing
 
you should give the assets to the renderer and it gives you a handle back, that will solve the problem of say... switching an opengl renderer that needs everything on the gpu, with say a raytracer that has everything in ram
im not an expert (yet) but thats what i would do
 
Ell
I'm bad at explaining
I don't need to go that far down
For example I might want to switch from deferred shading to forward shading
Or rendering some objects with a toon shader
 
Whoa. 2012.
That's 2 years ago.
 
Ell
12:47 AM
Trudat
 
I still think it's 2012 sometimes.
 
@Ell shove both deferred and forward in the same renderer, you'll need forward anyway for transparent stuff
 
Ell
Most years I think its the start of the year
I always have to check when I write dates down
 
also, this might interest you: Moving Frostbite to PBR
 
@Rapptz I don't
I have to use VS 2013 daily
I can't think it's 2012
it's at least 2013
 
Ell
12:53 AM
@Borgleader well I want a solution that allows different "renderers" (in this case I guess I mean shaders and supporting code) whatever those renderers may do
But they have requirements, a mesh with just position attributes could be rendered by a flat colour renderer but not by a renderer that does lighting for example
So there'd need to be a way to enforce the requirements before erroring or crashing or whayever
 
@aclarke done
 
@Ell i still think you're over complicating things, but wtv, hf
 
There are so many songs.
I have so many songs.
How do I keep finding new music?
I have like 13k tracks of music.
 
Ell
@Borgleader meh. What's complicated? You need different shaders for different things anyway right
I'm just trying to think of a nice way to choose what shader renders what, and to decouple it from handling mesh data and whatnot
 
@Ell Yeah so? Theyre all handled the same way, why would i want to split them in different renderers?
 
Ell
1:00 AM
Different shaders need different supporting code
Like setting up buffers and whatnot
 
no thats vertex formats
 
Ell
There are things besides vertex formats
 
all you have to do is validate that the vertex format matches whatever the shader needs
 
Ell
I haven't even written much code yet anyway, we'll see how it goes :)
 
toStringz(string s) (Function)
this function is gangsta
 
Ell
1:04 AM
But there is more than just vertex format
 
user1646075
@Jefffrey feels nicer already
 
lol
 
@Borgleader What is the context of this?
 
@Nican Assassin’s Creed Unity: Ubisoft Says 30fps ‘Feels Better For Players’ gamerant.com/…
 
user1804599
1:19 AM
900p top kek
 
user1646075
1:30 AM
@AlexM. Oh God. I fired up GTA San Andreas yesterday for old-times sake, plugged into the 50" HD TV, expecting it to be nicer on the old 25" standard-res glass-screen. EWWWWW. So hazy, fuzzy and jerky motion. It Was Horrible.
 
San Andreas is capped at 30 FPS unless you remove the cap
which is a very bad idea
for example, with an uncapped framerate, you cannot swim underwater
 
wat
why
 
dafuq
 
probably something done per frame instead of per time elapsed
 
yeah so?
 
1:32 AM
I didn't debug Rockstar's games, no idea
 
i just dont get the logic behind that assumption
 
do you know about delta time?
the time between frames?
i.e. the time elapsed since the last frame?
 
How is that relevant?
 
you use it to provide some form of framerate independence
by doing things every X seconds
instead of every frame
or every X frames
 
yes, but how is that relevant with the player not being able to go underwater
 
1:35 AM
I don't know, a check being executed more often than required (i.e. on a per-frame basis) because they forgot to change it when they ported the game to PC
the game was originally developed for the PS2
which is capped at 30fps
 
maybe the physics engine only does calculations at expected 30 fps and anything above it leads to a computation that equals 0 which makes you sink?
 
you can dive a little bit
but then you're forced to the surface
 
Ell
It sounds odd
 
^
 
it is
 
1:36 AM
Physics exploding is not unheard of
 
that's the point where I switched to 30fps again
 
Ell
And my stomache feels bad
 
Esp if physics timestep is tied to rendering timestep
 
Rockstar wasn't great with ports anyway
so I'm not surprised
 
yeah
 
1:38 AM
GTA Vice City didn't have that bug
but that's probably because you can't swim in Vice City :P
 
hehe
how many hours I've spent on Vice City!
 
I only really liked San Andreas :(
 
Ell
Never played GTA
 
actually I liked it so much that I did not want to finish it
because then I'd end the story
 
@AlexM. Page fault
 
1:41 AM
nobody ever finishes a GTA
 
the characters were so likeable in SA
oh yeah, and people reported cars reaching ultra high speeds if they removed the framerate cap, but that never happened to me
so it's probably something about the physics engine like cat/rapptz said
I played the game on integrated video, so maybe I never reached a high enough framerate for that
 
user1646075
@AlexM. san andreas graphics shitted me immensely. Too bright/harsh, markers too hard to see, overcrowded low-res objects, jerky highway driving. Poor rendering distance that was still blatantly playing catch-up as you moved around... VC had the nicest of the old-school, although GTA III had it's own charm. V looks REALLY nice on PS3.
 
user1646075
@Jefffrey I finished III about 15 times and VC about 5
 
did you check out GTA V's first person mode?
Rockstar made it official, at least for the PC version
no idea bout the consoles
 
user1646075
@AlexM. not seen it on PS3, although I'm not actually playing it - can't wrestle the controller out of Jr's hands. He's stronger than me now
 
user1646075
1:46 AM
I've done about 7 missions
 
I'll get GTA V when it will be part of the Rockstar pack on Steam, at 80% sale :A
it's too much of a gamble for me
the only reason I liked SA so much was because of the characters and their story
I don't find it to be particularly fun to run around the city and kill everything and stuff
or steal every car
 
user1646075
heh. I apply nearly the same logic - it has to reach at least 50% down as a pre-owned item. Very cheap and stingey gaming!
 
user1646075
@AlexM. yeah, the story line and general silliness made it great fun. But I found myself cursing the lack of visual clarity so many times
 
at least you were not me
I played it on the lowest possible details, at... what, 640x480?
to get a playable framerate out of it
 
user1646075
@AlexM. PS2 gives standard tv PAL res at 50 or 60. I usually played games at 50 just to reduce the chance of dropped frames.
 
1:58 AM
Hello everyone!
 
user1646075
morning. Lunch time!
 
Lunch time?
 
user1646075
1pm
 
4AM here
it's bed time for me lol
cya
 
It's 10 here.
pm
 
user1646075
2:00 AM
@Nooble oh right, assumed you were just getting up.
 
user1646075
@AlexM. ciao
 
user1646075
are you on daylight saving? My clock says NY is at 9PM
 
It's do-homework-because-I-spent-my-afternoon-coding-a-game-engine time for me.
Yeah it's technically 9
 
user1646075
or my KDE clock is stoopit.
 
user1646075
ahhh
 
2:01 AM
But it's 10, because my clock doesn't observe DST
 
user1646075
anyway, hungry! Now, do your homework.
 
I am, these polynomials are going to take up so much of my night. Go eat a pizza.
Pizza's great!
 
user1646075
ehhhh, Calzone! Call yourself a newyoiker...
 
user1646075
/gives @Nooble the mafia dead-eye stare
 
user1646075
ciao, chow!
 
2:05 AM
Another Belgian making it big :D Jeroom, cartoonist got a contract with Comedy Central (US).
 
But the pizza at local shops is sooo guud.
Spicy Buffalo Wing slices.
 
@Nooble I agree.
 
Has anyone here used libssh2 before?
 
 
1 hour later…
user1646075
3:15 AM
@Jefffrey regarding earlier discussion:
 
user1646075
 
3:27 AM
I need context.
Ahh, nevermind.
That must be the worst, seeing the earth getting destroyed from the moon.
 
user1646075
@Nooble you'd rip your helmet off then and there
 
Due to the vacuum, you probably won't be able to because of suction.
Even worst, you need to die slowlyyyyy.
Do astronauts/cosmonauts carry cyanide pills?
 
user1646075
3:43 AM
@Nooble or an emergency box-cutter
 
@aclarke That's not good because it decreases the mass of the Earth and change the orbit of the moon.
 
user1646075
earth might become a satellite of the moon. Or some beautiful rings
 
> templates
> unbearable bad runtime performance
lol
 
user1646075
4:39 AM
@orlp if only C++ compilers could solve all that shit before runtime
 
Table Editor is such a nice plugin
 
@orlp Read his last comment: "The runtime of the language called C++ templates is when the C++ compiler runs."
 
@JerryCoffin ...
"Fuck I'm wrong let's change the definitions so I'm right"
 
@JerryCoffin It's such a stupid comment.
Btw.
@orlp I'm trying out 'cppreference'-style layout
And trust me man it's a royal PITA
 
@Rapptz to manually generate, yes
@Rapptz to read it's so awesome though
 
4:45 AM
do you think cppreference is made automatically or something
templates alleviate some of their pain but it's not magic
 
@orlp Dunno for sure--but I can see where he could honestly have known what he was talking about (and was basically just trolling).
 
(note that I'm not talking about manual HTML here)
 
I know that cppreference is not made automatic
 
It's just a pain in general.
 
I thought you were referring back to our discussion where I said I wished for a good semi-automatic C++ doc tool
 
4:47 AM
I think
 
where you write manual docs and it automatically does all the cross-referencing and markup for you
 
through Sphinx plugins
you could probably make something
with directives and what not
 
possibly
you guys said sphinx was good for C++
the last time I tried it it wasn't
might try it in the near future again
 
it's manual documentation
you provide the signatures and stuff
but it's pretty good at it
 
I like manual documentation up to the point where a tool can save you a lot of time without degrading doc quality
for example automatic cross-referencing functions
I don't wanna write [std::function](/doc/functions/std/function) instead of [std::function] (or similar syntax) everytime, for example
I could write the perfect docs in HTML
but it would just be tons and tons of boilerplate
I want manual, seperated docs (not any Doxygen bullshit) with minimal boilerplate
Sphinx did that for me for python in the past, albeit the output didn't looked exactly as I wanted and I didn't want to learn their entire templating setup
 
5:13 AM
=/ I still don't fully understand the value types in C++ and &&
 
sucks
 
@Rapptz if I write template<class T> void f(T&&);, will T itself be the correct deduced type if I pass in different things?
 
hm?
what do you mean
 
let's say I want to use T in some enable_if construction
 
yeah T would be the 'correct deduced type'
 
5:27 AM
then it matters if I passed in some const reference or a modifiable lvalue, etc
 
@Rapptz so this always works correctly? coliru.stacked-crooked.com/a/f8623894942f1d97
 
I guess
 
(I use this for my tuple_visit construction so you can extract values, but also references)
 
 
1 hour later…
6:41 AM
is there a std::is_same for template parameter packs?
 
@orlp no, but you can easily construct one yourself
@orlp I mean, you could also just do std::is_same<std::tuple<Ts...>, std::tuple<Us...>>
 
Ah, no I meant to detect if it's like <int, int, int>
but I guess I'll write my own
was just making sure it didn't exist already
 
7:06 AM
hmm
I wish there was some fallback flag in C++ that makes a function not participate in ambiguous overloads
right now with enable_if you have to repeat every single clause and negate them
 
7:25 AM
@orlp That sounds very ad hoc.
 
7:35 AM
wait... black diamonds are caused by carbon impurities... but erm... how is carbon an impurity in something that is pure carbon?
 
@thecoshman pieces of carbon in the crystallized carbon that are not part of the crystal
@thecoshman just like pools of water in a frozen lake are water impurities for ice skating, if that helps you understand
 
7:49 AM
ah I see, I thought it meant these impurities were part of the lattice, like when you dope silicone.
 
haha
_ZN6cdequeI1ASaIS0_EE6assignISt13move_iteratorIPS0_EEENSt9enable_ifIXsr3std10is‌​_base_ofISt18input_iterator_tagNSt15iterator_traitsIT_E17iterator_categoryEEE5val‌​ueEvE4typeESA_SA_
gotta love C++ linker errors
 
that's MSVC
gcc shows you the demangled name
 

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