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3:00 PM
@BenjaminGruenbaum Fuck understands why, given Emacs.
 
Xeo
ded
 
btw
the change was
The creation of Stack Exchange sites is a democratic, community-driven process.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Deleted. Everything deleted.
 
to
The creation of Stack Exchange sites is a community-driven process.
 
3:01 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes why?
 
The system works!
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Duh.
There's no reason, other than wanting folks to not talk about it. Or something.
 
Xeo
@Rapptz Where did you find that?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Does it not depend on how many people frequent the proposed site?
 
morning friends. I am sucking at programming more than usual this morning!
 
Xeo
3:02 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes Streisand effect inc?
 
The 'question' announcing the closure was at -50 and had a bunch of answers at 50+ stating their disapproval.
@VáclavZeman It can't be that way before the site launches.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes it doesn't sound likely that they'd do it for no reason
 
@VáclavZeman Area 51 is officially a dictatorship now.
 
@Rapptz Demand explanation then? Overthrow the dictators?
 
3:03 PM
The dictators have diamonds.
 
@Rapptz that word you keep using....
 
btw
@AlexM. But the matter you are referring does not address this feature request made in good faith (which has been status-completed, by the way). Comments are not here for you to inject whatever discussion you wish to get into. Please stop. — Robert Cartaino ♦ 2 mins ago
this was sorta funny
 
It's a privately owned website by a for-profit company. Their primary interest is money and business value. It's certainly not a democracy.
 
Thanks for ruining the joke buddy.
 
3:04 PM
TBH, I would rather see Editors board than separate Vi/Vim and Emacs boards.
Too much fragmentation is too much.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes right, but it not being a democracy doesn't make it a dictatorship - it's not even a form of government.
 
It's just a jocular way of expression.
 
I wanna open a meta.se question about the vim board since no one would tell me what happened.
 
I'm the robot here.
 
(Well, you told me, but don't have any links)
 
3:05 PM
@BenjaminGruenbaum Well, I can only give you dead links.
 
Ell
Okay I want to alter the highlighted commit. i.imgur.com/oMRYtis.png wish me luck modifying history...
 
-54
Q: Closing the Vi/Vim Proposal

Robert CartainoProposal: Vi/Vim We recently launched an Emacs site, and the Vi/Vim community quickly followed to have a site of their own. The show of support here was nothing short of amazing. It weighed heavily in our evaluation of this site, but we ultimately decide not to split off Vi/Vim from Stack Overfl...

 
Oh, undeleted.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes that's a live link
 
3:05 PM
@BenjaminGruenbaum It was dead a few minutes ago.
 
it was deleted
 
20 mins ago, by milleniumbug
@AlexM. lol, the vi/vim proposal closure question got removed. Foiling, aren't we?
 
get with the times joke ruining grandpa
 
20 minutes ago, according to chat.
 
@VáclavZeman Yeah I agree with you.
 
3:06 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes hmm
 
It feels like they're doing the equivalent of allowing [cpp.se], [c.se], and [java.se].
 
Who deleted it?
 
@VáclavZeman It still makes the whole issue ridiculous and/or wrong.
 
He did.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Robert did.
 
3:07 PM
The author of the post.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Well, this explains it well enough. I agree with the fragmentation avoidance angle. I honestly do not see myself going to more than just the SO proper and sometimes TEX.SE.
 
@VáclavZeman It explains it terribly.
 
The problem is that there's already a precedent.
They should either shut down the emacs one too or just allow vi/vim to exist.
 
@VáclavZeman It waves away the fact that they opened a precedent.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes that's odd
It sounds very strange that someone who works at community development would make such a rookie mistake
 
3:08 PM
Also that there is a beta phase precisely to check that sort of stuff. (Aka I’m parroting the upvoted answers.)
 
Not only well supported. But supper ethusiastic. It went from Proposal to 100% committed in under 15 days. — Loki Astari Oct 9 at 18:35
About the activity, btw.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes OK. TBH, I think Emacs should be folded back to SO or together with other editors into a single new site.
 
Also is SO really the de facto repository of Vim-related questions? I think I land on SuperUser sometimes when searching stuff, although I suppose that could be old stuff.
 
All the hugely upvoted Vim questions are under historical lock
 
@LucDanton No.
They're all over the place.
@Rapptz Wait, what?
 
3:11 PM
Am I remembering wrong?
 
Eh, maybe not. I’m asking because it’s too much of a clusterfuck to figure out by myself :s
 
SO has by far the most, but they're spread all over the other sites.
SU, AskUbuntu, *nix, ...
 
Yeah the same is true for emacs
It's the same argument they made lol
 
1096
Q: Indent multiple lines quickly in vi

Allain LalondeShould be trivial, and it might even be in the help, but I can't figure out how to navigate it. How do I indent multiple lines quickly in vi?

Top votes.
 
I think the whole situation is silly
Oh okay.
 
3:12 PM
@Rapptz Yeah, which is why this is just plain wrong.
He even mentions that reason in the question.
 
Would an editor-related site fold (La)TeX.SE with it?
 
tex is not an editor
 
Vim is not an Emacs either. I’m confused as to where it starts or stops for a more than just Vim site. (Re: making an editor site.)
 
15
A: Closing the Vi/Vim Proposal

Jon EricsonSince the Vi and Emacs proposals entered commitment so close together, it's inevitable that they would be compared to each other. But internally the conflict had nothing to do with the editors themselves1 and everything to do with Stack Overflow. Back in July and August, Shog floated a Stack Over...

 
I'm confused
 
Ell
3:14 PM
 
That makes some sense
 
Ell
user image
8
how is there so much wrong on one slide
 
Unrelated: area51.stackexchange.com/tour leads to 404 page.
 
@Ell does that mean that only they may use the word "gnome"?
 
user1804599
@milleniumbug Read the sign, you schnitzel. You're not allowed to tour through Area 51.
 
3:17 PM
@Ell Just confirming to me that Ubisoft is shit.
 
@Ell LOL, where is this from?
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum cppcon probably
 
Nice, yet another game programmer
 
13
A: Closing the Vi/Vim Proposal

slmThese were the numbers from the Emacs proposal: source - Why do we need a separate site for Emacs? http://stackoverflow.com/questions/tagged/emacs - >11k http://superuser.com/questions/tagged/emacs - >1300 http://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/tagged/emacs - >370 http://tex.stackexchange.com...

 
3:21 PM
@BenjaminGruenbaum lol, I don't get it. The statistics he quotes are nearly identical
 
N RTTI, no STL no etc, lol already.
 
Ell
@Abyx Kind of
I think it means only they can market products as GNOME
and I guess the groupon thing is the combination of tablet & shell
the shell obviously is very similar category to gnome
which is desktop software and stuff
 
or it's just a small tablet. gnomes are small, you know
 
Meh, he's talking about ram line caching and other trivial stuff :/
 
Ell
it's not really a tablet I wouldn't say
 
3:23 PM
Who the heck goes to cppcon and doesn't know what ram line caching is? Or that the CPU cache is faster than the HD?
 
Heh I’d love a big SE that’s more tag-driven than site-driven but seeing for how long the search system has stayed in its present state I don’t really have high hopes.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum exactly the same as 2+ talks on codedive
 
@Ell It's so bad
 
@BartoszKP Why are they rediscovering all this? It's all very basic...
 
Ell
> before doing that change of splitting the class into two pieces, that class was taking 80% of object files
 
3:25 PM
Anyone with the slightest bit of experience knows it
 
Ell
talk about god classes :L
 
Dudes...
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum don't know about cppcon, but codedive was free so it kinda explains not very outstanding presentations
 
What would be appropriate setup for MTA on personal Linux machine connected to the Internet through NAT, etc.
...so that system/cron emails get delivered somehow conveniently.
 
user1804599
3:26 PM
How does seeking work on files in /proc that may change over time?
 
My /var/mail/wilx is growing because I do not access it.
 
user1804599
Like can I seek to the beginning and read again or do I have to reopen the file if I want the latest information?
 
user1804599
/proc/stat in particular.
 
6
Q: Is it safe to use lseek() when reading from Proc-FS files second time

Ansis Atteka Is it safe to use lseek(fd,0) and then read(fd,buf) for /proc/stat file instead of reopening it to get updated contents of this file next time? And what does the mmap() call after opening this file really do (see below)? The problem I am encountering is that top reports way too low CPU usage (...

 
user1804599
holy shit
 
user1804599
3:29 PM
 
@rightføld such a solid abstraction, everything is a file :D
 
this guy's french accent
is so thick
why am I watching this
 
@Rapptz Masochism?
 
@Rapptz French?
You wish.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Shit, your ducks thing just Baader–Meinhoff’d me. (The rows, not the rape.)
 
3:33 PM
Quebec French I suppose
 
Yeah, it's even worse.
 
they use unity builds
aren't those horrible?
 
vOv
People usually give some of the same not-enough-RAM bullshit excuses they also give for SSDs.
 
Ell
@Rapptz we cannot stor sings on ze 'eep
 
the guy keeps pronouncing compilation as completion
I won't lie, it's driving me nuts
 
3:37 PM
lol
-3
A: Closing the Vi/Vim Proposal

Lightness Races in OrbitThis absolutely makes sense. It made no sense to have a whole new SE simply for Emacs in the first place. Guys, have you never heard of tags? Gees. This whole "everything needs its own SE site" fad is absurd.

 
lol LRiO
I miss him :(
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Are those excuses in favour or against unity builds? And why are they bullshit?
 
Because it's basically "not enough RAM, and won't download some"
 
@AlexM. is he dead? ;0
 
well, sorta
 
3:39 PM
:o
 
who is he again?
 
did LRiO quit or something?
 
he just pronounced complimenting as completing
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes And so they don’t do unity builds? Or they do? Which one (allegedly) helps with RAM usage?
 
:(
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yeah.. I think regular French isn't this bad w.r.t. thickness in accent.
 
3:41 PM
@LucDanton What I often see touted is that Unity builds reduce I/O usage, so it becomes faster.
 
@TheForestAndTheTrees taking a lounge break allegedly
 
> The principle behind a UB is quite simple. It’s all about reducing…

… the number of times a file is opened.
… the number of files that are opened.
 
Oh that rings a bell.
 
I was under the impression that this doesn't 'bloat' the resulting executable?
 
That's from what I would call the canonical description of unity builds.
 
3:43 PM
 
@Rapptz Ye the linker sorts it out.
 
Yeah that's what I imagined
 
@LucDanton not always, but I can't recall the exact example - quite convoluted but possible :0
 
There’s a whole kind of linkage (aka weak symbols) dedicated to the task in the land of the Elves, can’t imagine it goes wrong.
 
3:46 PM
@Rapptz It should not, all Array<SomeType> instances should be folded into a single one.
 
@Rapptz that's from that cppcon talk, right? honestly it was a little weird, a lot of things could have been sorted out by just changing the method in which they build their implementation. changing = don't change it to the way they are currently doing it
 
@Rapptz To bounce back on the ‘reduced usage’ thread though, it does mean that the linker has more work to do.
 
he was talking about compilation times
he doesn't seem to talk about linking at all
 
@Rapptz He means the whole thing.
 
What good are unlinked object files? :)
 
3:48 PM
he doesn't explicitly mention it
so I didn't know
 
Unity builds are very much about full builds from scratch though. Don’t know why partial rebuilds are not discussed. Is it in this talk?
 
he glosses over it
and says it doesn't affect them so they don't care much
 
@LucDanton lol, he does mention it.
 
and that the solution is that they separate the working stage to a separate workingunity.cpp file
instead of the main unity.cpp file
 
In the beginning they... sucked it up (WTF: builds are bad enough that you want to go that drastic but you can put up with full builds all the time?).
 
3:51 PM
yeah...
 
@Rapptz What’s the difference between the two?
 
reduces the number of files built presumably
 
Then they have some system where they remove files they edit from the whole unity thing, and while you edit it, it rebuilds the unity-1 in the background.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Let’s play the guessing game of: a) we don’t have tests and/or don’t do test-compile-edit workflows b) we don’t do small commits
Oh, subtract the working TU and link with the rest then.
 
I wonder why bitbucket seems to reluctant to let people see the status of the repository at some specific commit.
 
3:53 PM
Damn that’s begging for a compiler server/a better toolchain.
 
they do use a build server
 
Ell
speaking of build systems ninja; ninja; ninja; does work all 3 times for some reason
 
@Ell ninja -v helps when sorting out kinks.
 
lol he mentioned that their games run at 30 FPS
 
@Rapptz Console?
 
3:54 PM
yeah
 
@Rapptz Not the same thing (although it is helpful yeah).
Oh right, I think incremental compiler is the better term.
 
they use some tool called FastBuild
 
It's a free IncrediBuild.
They use code generation!
 
lol yeah
 
First smart thing I saw.
 
Ell
3:57 PM
Nobody bother watching the talk on a c++ package manager
it's so terrible
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes awarenessception
 
you could have saved me the trouble for this talk
but now I'm like 25 minutes in
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Is that more of a distributed compiler?
 
and I'm at some sunk cost fallacy
 
@LucDanton Yeah. Distcc sort of thing.
 
3:58 PM
k
 
@Rapptz This is why I don’t watch those things!
 
these example classes are pretty terribad
 
That reminds me I haven’t tried incremental linking with Gold in a long time.
 
@Rapptz why (and what) would he be complimenting anyways?
 
4:00 PM
'complementing the unity builds'
bad typo on my part
I did it twice too lol
@Ell I just got here. It's 10x worse than I imagined. He seems proud of it.
 
Ell
@Rapptz yeah he does
it's pretty bad
 
lol this is definitely the worst slide I've ever seen
 
-6
Q: What does "C" in C#, C++ and (obviously) C stand for?

MikeDeltaOK this might be a very random, off topic question but I was wondering what "C" actually stands for? Everyone uses it but I feel like I know nothing about those languages without knowing the actual meaning of that letter.

^ hmm, is that really "too broad"?
 
this is so bad
it's going down a slippery slope of terribleness
 
@Rapptz that talk? yeah, it's not worth watching
at all.
 
4:04 PM
It's not even funny like Blow's stuff.
 
"Not terrible enough."
"Hardly sucks, when it should suck hard."
3
 
He's going back to his template class thing
I don't know how it works
How does he abstract a template array class into a base class and a template class?
Maybe he's returning or using void*
 
GlobalSingleton
 
enjoy the ride
 
@Rapptz Yeah, that's an old technique.
 
4:08 PM
he claims it's 'probably faster'
 
lol
"A singleton that has the same performance as a global object"
 
if(IsPtrOnStack(this)) how does this magic work
 
wow
 
lolwat
 
4:11 PM
@Rapptz Stack addresses are usually distinct from heap addresses.
You need to get the range.
 
might be a console thing
 
@AlexM. lol,
 
37:50 is the first sign of a crowd existing
I forgot he wasn't talking to himself
 
He asked to leave questions for the end.
 
I probably missed that.
but I'm still impressed no one coughed or sneezed in 37 minutes
that I didn't hear
I'm free
 
4:19 PM
"They are like conditional breakpoints with two differences"
1) They actually have a hope of working in MSVC.
My guess.
 
guest appearance from Mike Acton
(he asked a pretty decent question)
how long was CppCon btw?
3 days? 1 week?
how does unity build help runtime performance
that's such a strange claim
I don't see how unity builds help inlining
 
The compiler is watching you sees everything.
 
@Rapptz It requires less smarts for inlining stuff.
 
I thought this talk was pretty awful
 
Works better if you have things in the right order, of course.
 
4:25 PM
Even with my semi-high standards this was pretty bad
._.
@R.MartinhoFernandes How?
 
You don't need to see through TUs.
The regular intra-TU inlining logic works.
 
The guy answered the question with "I don't know. I think it happened in AC1" so it wasn't very helpful.
 
TU 1: extern int foo(); int bar() { return 3 + foo(); } and TU 2: int foo() { return 6; } requires efforts to inline that 6 into bar.
 
C++11 features? Whatever MSVC supports. lol
 
4:29 PM
Hence the deal with whole program/link time optimization.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yeah lol
 
just watched Stalker - very interesting movie
 
way too deep for me
and too few words
 
well, the whole purpose of such movies is that they're as deep as you want
 
that's deep man
 
4:48 PM
if you want
 
I'm not sure what you are on about, but I'm sure someone is wrong
I'm sure they could use a better example than this for unreachable!()
 
@BartoszKP I'd rather see movies that tell me exactly what they want to say
if I wanted to be as deep as I liked, I'd have written a story
 
which is the reason I don't like open endings to movies and stuff
 
Ell
std::string deallocates using it's allocator, right?
 
4:55 PM
something like loop { sum += get_next_players_score(); if sum > 100 { return sum; } } unreachable!();
 
@Ell Yep.
 
@AlexM. I get that, but still I think it's fun to see this other type of movie - an ambiguous illustration to ponder about and find different explanations, instead of just accepting what's been given on a plate. Even though I probably missed 90% of references to literature, art, culture etc.
 
Ell
Damn. the time has come that I'd like to rename my class
 
Shit.
equal_range is not at all what I want.
 
@AlexM. and - the movie doesn't want to say anything, not wanting to sound too artistic or pathetic - if it wants anything, it wants you to say something ; D
 
4:59 PM
You get what you sway for
So anyways, I was sitting in the library today and I overheard a bunch of girls talking about C++
 
:v
 
One of them uttered void main
 

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