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11:00 AM
@CatPlusPlus I need a misspeling for perl too
pearl!
 
so I'm leaning towards ignoring the 64/100 PC Gamer gave it
 
okay so Pearl rubby and pHp are bad okay
redit said so
 
user1804599
@BartekBanachewicz no you suck Perl is awesome.
 
yes absolutely not.
 
Also I've never even heard of Titan
 
11:03 AM
what's Titan?
is it a PL?
 
Some Blizzard MMO that just got axed
rip another crappy MMO you won't be missed
 
Ell
I keep forgetting why you think ruby is bad
 
they probably thought it's better to invest more money in Hearthstone instead
 
Ell
either that or you never give me an answer
 
You're not paying attention
 
11:05 AM
@Ell the answers go over your head typically
 
Ell
I'm going to look in the transcript
 
but I'm not gonna try you know
land a job and start writing ruby 8 hours a day
 
We'll talk after you're in a few months of a dev project in ruby when the whole thing starts to collapse
rubby on rail :D
god never gets old
 
user1804599
SQL y u no ALTER CONSTRAINT.
 
Ell
11:09 AM
I can't find anything
 
I approves of rust's (incomplete, unfinished) Unicode API.
 
Wow rubby fanboy denial
 
@BartekBanachewicz & denotes references, and 'foo denotes a named lifetime.
 
Ell
@CatPlusPlus I haven't even heard an argument man
 
I gave you a fucking link to go through
 
Ell
11:12 AM
@CatPlusPlus have you tried clicking that link?
 
:cripes:
 
Ell
it's just hundreds of "ruby is bad"
 
Have you tried looking at the context of those messages
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes yeah, I expected something like that
@Ell dude he created that link in the first place
 
Ell
@BartekBanachewicz I know
 
11:13 AM
@Ell Do you honestly think that cat filled 10 pages of logs with random messages of "rubby sucks" without any context?
 
Ell
@BartekBanachewicz yes?
 
so what he sits here and chats and then suddenly
 
Ell
well, without substance
 
ruby sucks.
and moves on with his life?
 
Ell
@BartekBanachewicz erm, yes?
that happens all the time
 
11:14 AM
No it doesn't you fuck
 
user1804599
> Note that the dispatch happens on the type of the first argument, create your function accordingly:
 
user1804599
Ugh, why is this not customizable.
 
@Ell you know that Cat actually has a job where they use Rubby in production, right?
And your only experience is hobby hacking.
 
Ell
@BartekBanachewicz yeah
Cat hates everything
 
11:17 AM
@Ell nonsense
 
Ell
@BartekBanachewicz well I've never seen him praise anything :P
 
user1646075
@thecoshman Perl sucks but is awesome at the same time. Mostly because CPAN. and PCRE. and confusing mess.
 
user1804599
Perl doesn't use PCRE.
 
user1804599
And PCRE is incompatible with Perl.
 
Sep 15 at 15:27, by Cat Plus Plus
Contrary to popular belief I actually use things before I start hating them with passion
@Ell That isn't a proof he hates everything
 
Ell
11:19 AM
@BartekBanachewicz What doesn't he hate? :P
 
it merely proves he hates some things
@Ell CS (AFAIK)
 
user1646075
@rightfold hah!
 
Stupid DSL hardon that the community has, broken in various funny ways on Windows (with library developers doing shit like http://chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/message/11292318#11292318), shitty debugging experience,
shitty profiling experience, #present? #blank? #empty?, #equals? #eql? #== #===, open classes, implicit return but still has statements so that sometimes doesn't work???, `return` in a block returns from OUTER SCOPE LAFFO, optional parentheses that occasionally create fun problems like infinite recursion, terrible ecosystem (I already mentioned Windows devs but it's in gene
Also everything about Rails
 
user1646075
PCRE is closest thing to perl when not perl. I used a regex and now I've got one less problem. So there.
 
Also fuck this retarded message length limit that only applies to single-line messages
Fucking chat
These things are off the top of the recent shit
Which is all in that goddamn link
 
11:22 AM
goo.gl hth
 
Ell
I mean I know it has it's problems :P
 
hihihihihih
 
Ell
I didn't know about the whole equals mess until reading the first link
I agree the return semantics are broken like that
I've never used Rails
 
Damn, the history searching tip is a life changes.
Pressing the up arrow will be a much more joyful experience from now on.
 
user1646075
@CatPlusPlus is that a quote or you venting? because it covers so much of what shits me in my current role.
 
11:25 AM
It's me summarising rubby issues for rubby fanboys over here who can't fucking read
Well not all issues
 
oh Ell is a ruby fanboy
 
Only the most recent ones
 
must plonk
 
user1646075
no, not all.....
 
yeah it would be hard to gather all rubby issues in one message
 
11:25 AM
@BartekBanachewicz Ruby
Done
 
Ell
@TonyTheLion I'm not a fanboy :P
 
@Ell ahahah nope.
 
Jan 19 at 16:49, by Cat Plus Plus
I'd pick PHP before Ruby
 
I would know.
 
Ell
11:26 AM
I'm open to change
 
user1646075
and 15 different gems to do a similar job completely differently
 
If this doesn't say everything, then you're dumb
 
user1646075
@TonyTheLion Ewwwwww
 
Ell
I agree that ruby sucks in a lot of ways
 
@Ell that doesn't prevent you from being a fanboy
@Ell in most of ways
it's basically a piece of crap language
 
11:26 AM
There's literally nothing the language does better than any other, the ecosystem is shit with people breaking libraries left and right for no reason (and gem/bundler are slow as fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck), libraries themselves are of dubious quality at best
 
why are you ever bringing it up
 
One thing I learned over so many years in the Lounge is that fanboyism isn't a good idea
 
nearly everything is better than Rubby
at everything
so why would you ever use it
 
And fuck those shitty DSLs holy shit
 
11:27 AM
@TonyTheLion Domain-Specific Language
 
user1646075
@TonyTheLion pretending that a method you can run at class definition time makes it a sublanguage
 
@TonyTheLion read up
 
da fuck
 
@CatPlusPlus lol
 
11:28 AM
@aclarke what
 
user1646075
especially using :symbols for arguments to pretend it looks like part of a sentence.
 
user1646075
one of the fantasies propping up Rails obsession with DSL
 
Ell
I like DSLs :P
 
DSLs are generally divided in two groups
a) shitty DSLs
b) non-shitty DSLs
#knowledge
 
Everything in fucking rubby has to be a goddamn cute DSL
 
11:29 AM
@CatPlusPlus s/cute/natural/
 
Berteks are usually divided in two groups:
a) Our Bartek
b) non-shitty Barteks
 
Even configuration because why would you want your configuration to be language neutral?????????????????????
 
user1646075
@BartekBanachewicz heh. I would expect that to make an honest DSL, you should be messing with the parser rules
 
@CatPlusPlus because it's natural
 
I wonder when hard drives will end up like floppy disks
 
user1646075
11:30 AM
not faking it with methods and symbols.
 
I'm sure it will be a happy day
 
@AlexM. Never
 
user1646075
@AlexM. because...
 
@aclarke EDSLs are about that
 
@AlexM. inb4 the cloud
 
11:31 AM
@aclarke because too fucking slow
 
@AlexM. soon
I'm going to be completely HDD-free rather soon
waiting for the moment
 
gonna be glorious
@VáclavZeman I will kick my HDD the fuck out of my personal workstation
 
user1646075
@VáclavZeman paper tape, the media of the future
 
Yeah, you definitely need SSD for those movies you are going to watch once every 10 years.
 
Ell
11:32 AM
@BartekBanachewicz your arguments would be much more credible if you weren't such a dick about it. How about taking a second to regain your composure and calmly tell me what you think is wrong with ruby? There is no point now because cat has already done the reasonable thing now
 
@Sofffia I don't keep them locally jesus
 
Aren't equivalent capacity SSDs rather costly?
 
lol tone argument
 
Ell
but I'm just saying you're not going to change anyone's mind on anything if all you do is hate on something
 
@VáclavZeman Fuck that, we need to go fast
 
11:33 AM
26 mins ago, by Bartek Banachewicz
We'll talk after you're in a few months of a dev project in ruby when the whole thing starts to collapse
 
user1646075
@Ell honest opinion: Ruby itself is a tidy little language, showing a few design mistakes but not nearly on the scale of Javascript. Rails is a moving target full of good wild ideas, and if it doesn't settle the fuck down soon it will hit a wall of failed projects which kills it.
 
bartek you are an antiruby-fanboi which is just as bad as a ruby-fanboi
4
 
Point being
 
Open classes are p much the worst design point ever
 
every extreme is terrible
 
11:34 AM
Oh shut up jesus
 
lol
 
bloo bloo you're mean about my tools
 
Rubby is bad
I just am not good enough yet at PLT to prove it
I admit it openly, okay.
 
Ell
@Sofffia that is my point too
 
Listen to Cat then
listen to whoever
 
Ell
11:35 AM
@BartekBanachewicz I am and have been, as I said before
 
just stop using crappy technology for christ's sake
 
It's a stupid argument
Oh look a Minecraft clone
 
user1646075
personal annoyances are the fall-off-the-end return value; too many ways to make closures (design growth); also returns from closures varying depending on the keyword/method used to create it; and the fucking unless keyword which I used to use a lot just to annoy a co-worker but now it annoys the fuck out of me.
 
Ell
@BartekBanachewicz I'm still going to use it because it's fun :P
 
11:36 AM
Fuck this industry
Also I've been thinking about reimplementing Vagrant in Python to get rid of last remnant of rubby from my toolset
 
run away because next time someone tells me a "language is crappy but I write in it because it's fun" and then continues to use it in production I'm gonna kill the person with my barehands
 
lol
 
user1646075
and mixins. How many ways will the world invent to avoid careful MI? pain(cure) > pain(disease).
 
you are being silly
 
Ell
@BartekBanachewicz I don't do anything in production :P
 
11:37 AM
That stupid DSL config is so terrible I don't even
 
don't be silly cat
 
@Ell then IDGI why are you even discussing it in the first place
 
user1646075
@BartekBanachewicz or because they have a mortgage and 3 mouths to feed. 5 if you count the growd-upz
 
sure write your own crappy code in the basement in brainfuck if you so chose
nobody cares about that
just don't bring that into reasonable software development, as reasonable as it gets at least.
 
ruby-hateboi
 
11:39 AM
I have nothing against new PL ideas; the point is that PLT is hard and hacking around a language in a week because it feels natural doesn't make you a language designer
That's why I won't even approach that for the next 10 years or something.
 
user1646075
also trailing statement-modifier if/unless and friends. First seen in the braindead VMS basic, brought back to life by Larry Wall because he wanted Perl to be even wierder
 
@Sofffia I hate all terrible tech equally
well, proportionally to its terribleness
 
> "Ancient space is a space themed RTS, it's a good rebust RTS that gives some different mechanics then most RTS, which make it entertaining. "
Did I mention it's an RTS?
 
@CatPlusPlus where are you getting those from
 
welcome to the world
everything is terrible
hth
 
11:40 AM
@Sofffia nonsense
 
@CatPlusPlus what's a rebust?
 
@BartekBanachewicz Curator recommendations
 
Ell
I don't think everything is terrible
 
Stop using slippery slope already
 
On Steam
 
Ell
11:40 AM
I think most things aren't terrible
 
Actually most are.
 
but i love using logical fallacies
 
But some aren't.
 
user1646075
@Ell because your glass is half-full
 
they make my arguments even more fun
 
11:41 AM
they are not arguments in the first place hth
 
90% of everything is shit and by Murphy's laws it's 99% of things you'll have to deal with
 
Jefff I have literally no idea how you can not hate ruby after you started coding in Haskell
 
wait
where was the slippery slope there?
do you even know what's that?
 
Ell
@BartekBanachewicz haskell has it's problems too
 
@BartekBanachewicz hate takes so much :effort:
 
Ell
11:42 AM
everything has problems
 
inb4 not that many
 
@Sofffia well, maybe it's this whole-part thing, I dunno
 
wow what a useful evaluation
 
They are kinda similar I think
@Ell wow so what
@Sofffia well actually it kinda does
 
inb4 people enumerating haskell problems and then ruby problems and then counting them with their hands
 
11:43 AM
yeah.
 
alright, 10 more minutes w/o music because I have to build this shit
 
> Planet Explorers is an open world sandbox adventure RPG game set on a distant planet. The game uses a new OpenCL calculated voxel system to allow players to change the terrain in any way, create new objects such as weapons, vehicles, objects, and do it anywhere.
 
well more like 20 minutes
 
yeah, counting the number of problems is the perfect way to compare languages
why are you even comparing languages jesus
 
Ell
@BartekBanachewicz So maybe she found that she found in haskell equalled or were worse than the problems she found in ruby? Hence not hating ruby
 
11:44 AM
It's not the number it's the severity
 
@Sofffia Because evaluating technology is a thing??????
 
@CatPlusPlus guess what? nobody will agree on the severity
 
srsly this gender identity thing has to stop already
here's a helpful guide
 
can we get over the fact that most of us don't like ruby and talk about something that is more fun
 
11:44 AM
@Ell what
 
Do you have a penis? -- Yes - you are male. No - you are female.
 
like... anything else?
 
wth Chrome is no longer playing sounds
 
user1646075
@BartekBanachewicz discriminating to hermaphrodites
 
11:45 AM
Oh good thanks Bartek for adding more shitty opinions into this discussion
 
@CatPlusPlus never enough penii
 
Ell
@CatPlusPlus idk man
 
neither does IE
Spotify plays though
fuck
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Restart it
 
@Ell precisely
 
11:46 AM
Spotify I mean
 
Ell
@BartekBanachewicz How can you not hate lua if you've tried haskell? I mean it's a silly question
 
@CatPlusPlus for realz though the gender changes are anoying
 
@Ell what
who are you talking about
 
see what I'm talking about
 
Ell
I'm just saying even if haskell is really gr8, it doesn't make you hate other things
 
11:47 AM
i'm not a she you sexist
 
@Ell Haskell opens your eyes a lot
fuck chat swallowing messages
 
Ell
Man I should leave this chat forever. I'm sure it's detrimental to my health
 
don't ell
 
ah yay Widnows's fault
 
I think I've seen an app grab an exclusive lock on sound card for no reason once or twice
 
Ell
11:49 AM
@Sofffia meh, it's not what it used to be
 
@Ell Haskell has its flaws, but the overall design and execution of its ideas are so, so much better than in most languages today
 
memories seems always better than they actually are
if that makes sense
 
user1804599
> Impotent idiots criticize Day of Ad Hominem
 
@Ell And Lua is actually quite similar to Haskell, but in a bit twisted way. It was also born from university research and I get the same warm cozy feeling when used it
 
user1646075
or to paraphrase, Nostalgia ain't what it used to be.
 
11:51 AM
Maybe it's just my personal preference, but I ultimately feel better and think better in those languages.
 
@rightfold /cc @R.MartinhoFernandes
 
@CatPlusPlus I did a few times.
had to disable/re-enable Windows's sound device
 
@CatPlusPlus You're going too far.
 
The original is kinda hard to integrate with other things
But yeah I'm too lazy anyway
 
Ell
11:57 AM
@BartekBanachewicz How are they similar? o.O
 
@Ell He likes them.
 
Things that currently are making me want to be drunk: Elasticsearch
 
@Ell They base on very well-defined primitives and build stuff on top of them
 
user1804599
@BartekBanachewicz Sounds like many languages.
 
Make partial match on document contents and then sort the results by name
HOW HARD CAN THAT BE
 
Ell
11:58 AM
@BartekBanachewicz abstraction?
 
@Ell yes and, well, no.
 
@BartekBanachewicz Sounds like every language ever.
 
eh.
I don't think I'll be able to explain and now I feel bad.
 
user1804599
Except C++, in which primitives are undefined instead of well-defined!
 
Nouns, verbs, adjectives, prepositions, adverbs, ... => English.
 

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