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user1646075
1:00 PM
@thecoshman for chroot - it just turned up one day and I thought 'hmm - interesting'
 
I just use chroot to quickly switch systems for once-in-a-lifetime tasks.
 
AFAIK some neckbeared wanted an easier way to run kernal code, so invented chroot so that he could run a separate kernal without twating around with second machines.
 
@thecoshman Can't run a separate kernel that way.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes oh? but that's more or less it right?
 
1:01 PM
No. It just gives you a different system.
You can't have two kernels running.
 
user1646075
interesting - I wonder if the googles will bring up the true history.
 
It modifies what programs running inside of it see as the root filesystem
It doesn't do anything else
 
user1646075
@R.MartinhoFernandes yeah, that sounds very wrong - unless there was a way to run a kernel as a user process. Surely not...
 
ah, so it's sort of like a VM, but using the hosts kernal...
 
1:02 PM
wtf
 
9 mins ago, by Cat Plus Plus
Filesystem is just one namespace to isolate
Just chrooting is almost no isolation at all
 
user1646075
fark - it was introduced into Version 7 - back in 1981 or something
 
bsh, I never bothered with it
probably never will
 
Containers are lightweight almost-VMs
Also kernEl
You butte
 
The only thing you can't do in a chroot is name files outside of it.
 
user1646075
1:04 PM
ahhhh - i remember the gimmmick! to allow you to pretend to install into /bin, /etc, etc and see how the install went.
 
You can still access them if you don't need to name them, and you can still access everything else like processes.
 
user1646075
(now that wiki points that out)
 
@aclarke Most things use LD_PRELOAD for that rather than chroot though
For chroot you need to duplicate a base system first
 
question
 
user1646075
also to virtualise multiple versions of software. Clumsy but workable
 
1:05 PM
Also better ways to do that :v
 
I just use slots.
 
user1646075
@CatPlusPlus LD_PRELOAD came later i think
 
I don't know about past, I'm talking about now
 
user1646075
all these things - later! virtualisation, 80's style.
 
chroot is more or less obsolete
I use it for entering a broken system from recovery, and nothing else
 
1:06 PM
when your using multidimensional array's in a function, and I initialize book[10][20] is it possible to only call out the second part (book[20]) or is that impossible?
 
user1646075
@CatPlusPlus a fair conclusion
 
Ell
I use chroot for installing arch
and gentoo
 
Yeah same thing as recovery p much
It's not useful for day-to-day operations
 
TO QUOTE: What do you guys think of banning Haskell talk in this room unless you have at least a decade of experience with it.
 
@Chantola book[10][20] defines a 2D (square) array of 10 by 20 books. It's not at all clear what you even mean by "the second part".
 
1:08 PM
@Chantola I think that fuck you.
 
If you want to actually isolate things then VM/LXC is a better choice
 
If they banned Haskell talk unless you have a decade's experience, I think Bartek woud be upset.
 
user1804599
@JerryCoffin THAT'S A RECTANGLE NOT A SQUARE
 
user1646075
@CatPlusPlus the whacky guys at bell labs (in one of it's later incarnations) created a program called warp which interfered with LD_PRELOAD - the idea of warp was that it fudged the clock, by allowing you to offset the time AND the rate of change of time, including going backwards.
 
Also because they have way better tooling
 
1:09 PM
@JerryCoffin So basically It's going to initalize 200 values?
 
@rightfold That depends on the aspect ratio of the books in question.
@Chantola It's going to allocate storage for 200 values. Unless book defines a constructor, it may not initialize any of them.
 
user1646075
@Chantola He is. He left.
 
@aclarke lol
@JerryCoffin that makes my question obsolete then..
@JerryCoffin I was trying to find a way (in page[20][30]) to get a value from page[30] and not page[20].. maybe with classes.
 
user1646075
@Chantola i am totally confused about what you mean, but maybe you could try it with careful test cases so you discover whether what you propose is possible.
 
@Chantola Regardless of (lack of) effect on Bartek, I think the whole idea is silly in general. Years of experience with X is a poor measure of capability with X, so it rarely forms a meaningful basis for much of anything.
 
1:12 PM
There's no page[30].
@JerryCoffin (Point is it'd pretty much ban it entirely)
 
user1646075
@JerryCoffin oh yeah - people can have 10 years experience with X, or 1 year of experience repeated 10 times.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes yeah, Jerry explained that to me.
@JerryCoffin I agree.
 
@Chantola So you want an array-like object, but with which the legal subscripts run from 20 to 29 (or 20 to 30?) If so, you need to do that by overloading operator[] for a class--a built-in array won't do it.
 
@JerryCoffin I was just trying to see what was possible and what wasn't, but I realize now that as r. Martinho said there is no single page[30]. There is page[1][30] page[2][30] etc etc. It's all one value.
Thank you for your time everyone, I greatly appreciate it.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yes, I figured that would be the effect for this particular case--I was just pointing out that the whole basic idea is stupid in general. But if it came to that, I could undoubtedly claim 10 years of experience with it if I wanted, and it'd be tough for anybody to prove that claim was false (and whether true or not, essentially impossible for me to prove it was true).
 
1:17 PM
was talking about haskell that annoying?
 
one more question, why do I always have the same reputation on meta stack overflow as well as stack overflow
 
@JerryCoffin But you're innocent until proven guilty! Can you prove yourself guilty of that heinous crime?
@Chantola Pretty much because that's how it is.
 
I don’t know how long I’ve been looking at Haskell. At first I though I had overlooked that ML had where.
 
lol wut.
Just gained a random 100 reputation?
You've earned a bonus of 100 reputation because we trust you on other sites in the network
Yet
You have reached your question limit
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@AlexM. Discussion of Haskell isn't inherently annoying at all--in fact, it's quite educational. Annoyance stems mostly from people with too much enthusiasm and too little sense of judgement about when to display it.
 
1:20 PM
I need to speak to a mod or something..
get this changed..
 
user1646075
@Chantola that'll work.
 
-2
Q: Write a C program using pointers to store N digits of Pi

divesh reddyWrite a C program using pointers to store N digits of Pi. Because value of Pi is infinite, user inputs N (really large naturual number). Program calculates decimals till Nth place. Program also provides user with an option to increase value of N, memory is reallocated to accommodate reminders til...

 
@aclarke but... how?
 
user1646075
@Chantola i was joking. The quota system is to make people earn their rights and prove they are worthy. Better to pray to Codd.
 
@Chantola Meta.so used to act in the role now filled by meta.se, so it had a separate reputation level. A while back they created meta.se, and made meta.so just as a meta for SO. Since then (like the other site-specific metas) meta.so is tightly enough coupled with the underlying site that you have the same rep on both.
 
1:23 PM
@JerryCoffin weird since I just created a new account on meta... with different reputation
 
Xeo
@Mgetz And now the del-votes
 
@Xeo I'm 400rep away from being able to help there sadly
 
@Chantola A new account is obviously separate from an old account.
 
Xeo
although we should maybe let it sit for a while, so OP realises something is wrong...
 
Ell
I don't know if I should make my java object reference wrapper moveable or not
 
Xeo
1:24 PM
damn
Question and comment deleted.
 
user1646075
@Mgetz oh you guys...
 
Xeo
The comment was "The value of Pi is not infinite."
 
@Xeo Seeing a different OP—automatic account merge?
 
It's true.
 
@Xeo If it was, calculating the correct value would be a lot easier...
 
user1646075
1:25 PM
scary how kids think the world will do their homework for them
 
Xeo
@LucDanton Yeah, I was wondering about that.
@R.MartinhoFernandes I know.
 
OOOOH im an idiot
I signed up for meta stack exchange....
thats why the rep is different
@JerryCoffin Now it makes sense why they're called multi-DIMENSIONAL arrays
 
@aclarke I can't quite imagine anybody posing this as homework. I hate to think of the number of hours @Mysticial has put into it--certainly a lot more than he could possibly have put into any one class when he was in school (and quite possibly close to as much as he did into the entirety of getting a masters degree).
 
user1646075
@Chantola pro-tip: they're just a big contiguous lump of memory with no real internal structure beyond what our minds choose to impose
 
user1646075
@JerryCoffin really, it should have gone to a Maths stack
 
1:30 PM
@aclarke real pro
 
user1646075
especially if they discovered that PI did not have infinite digits
 
Ell
@R.MartinhoFernandes it is?
I thought pi was irrational
 
@aclarke really? I thought it did
 
@Ell That's true as well.
@Chantola It doesn't.
pi = 10.
 
1:32 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes explain to me then where it ends then?
@R.MartinhoFernandes and why
 
user1646075
@Chantola 10 decimal places top. Maybe 12
 
@Chantola See above: right there at the zero.
 
Ell
so it can't be represented by a finite number of digits as a ratio or decimal
 
user1646075
@Ell prove it!
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes don't understand
 
1:33 PM
@Ell It can. I just did.
1 min ago, by R. Martinho Fernandes
pi = 10.
 
user1646075
i thought pi = 3. worked for the romans
 
0
A: Use of Undeclared Identifier when Using two cpp files

David LivelyWhen you see something like bob::hey("Tom-ay-to, tom-aaaah-to.") you'll have to have something somewhere else (probably in bob.h) that looks like this: class bob { public: static std::string hey(const std::string &s); } This is included in bob_test.cpp (by your #include "bob.h") preproc...

 
@aclarke Not really--as far as math goes, answers are trivial (e.g., "Chudnovsky formula"). The complexity is in implementing that, making it relatively immune to hardware failures, linearizing all the calculations to work efficiently with disk-based storage, making it fast enough to finish some large number of digits in less than a lifetime, etc.
 
Ell
@R.MartinhoFernandes that isn't pi in decimal, silly :P
 
@aclarke That's an approximation.
Mine is exact.
 
1:33 PM
answers like that disgust me... they are doing people's homework for them
 
@Ell Not my problem.
 
I spilled coke on myself, fuck this
 
@Chantola Numbers are not their representation and vice-versa. You wouldn't confuse a city with a map of it, would you?
 
user1646075
@R.MartinhoFernandes well, sure, 3 is only an approximation of 10. But it's a useful approximation
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes in base Pi?
 
1:34 PM
Yes.
 
user1646075
@AlexM. coke coming out of your nose? You're doing it wrong!
 
har har :A
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Change that to "base 2 Pi" and you've basically just reinvented radians.
 
I washed it with water quickly enough
 
Ell
@R.MartinhoFernandes this isn't a ratio or a decimal is it?
 
1:36 PM
hopefully the smell won't stick
 
user1804599
Oh I misread.
 
@Ell It's not infinite either. Not sure what you're trying to show.
 
user1646075
@AlexM. should have dabbed your fingers on it and rubbed it on your teeth.
 
@Ell Also, it is a ratio.
 
user1646075
Hey, Jerry, seriously, why do coke users do that?
 
1:36 PM
@aclarke what's that, a joke expansion pack?
 
Ell
@R.MartinhoFernandes I said you can't represent pi by a finite number of digits as a ratio or decimal. you said pi = 10 and claimed you did
 
Ell
I'm saying you didn't because 10 isn't a ratio or a decimal
 
user1646075
10 = 10 / 1
 
1:37 PM
@aclarke from what I've heard, they do even weirder shit with coke
but I wouldn't know
I'm usually sniffing pepsi
 
Ell
@R.MartinhoFernandes I don't buy that these are integers :P
 
user1646075
i tried sniffing coke, but the ice cubes kept getting stuck
 
Ell
or algebraic integers
 
@Ell You never said anything about integers.
 
Ell
@R.MartinhoFernandes a ratio is defined as a quotient of two integers
 
1:38 PM
Much like you said ‘ratio’, and not ‘ratio of wholes’.
 
@Ell Nope.
It's a quotient.
 
@aclarke I'm afraid I know little enough of coke use that I can't really answer that.
 
In mathematics, a ratio is a relationship between two numbers of the same kind (e.g., objects, persons, students, spoonfuls, units of whatever identical dimension), expressed as "a to b" or a:b, sometimes expressed arithmetically as a dimensionless quotient of the two that explicitly indicates how many times the first number contains the second (not necessarily an integer). In layman's terms a ratio represents, for every amount of one thing, how much there is of another thing. For example, supposing one has 8 oranges and 6 lemons in a bowl of fruit, the ratio of oranges to lemons would be 4:3 ...
Right there at the end of the first sentence.
 
user1646075
@JerryCoffin but you're into ELO or whatever that carnival 10 song came from...
 
user1646075
ergo, ....
 
Ell
1:39 PM
shit. I meant rational number whenever I said ratio:L
my bad
 
Anyway, I don't see how not being a rational number makes it infinite.
 
Ell
I'm interpreting that to mean needs an infinite number of decimal digits to represent
 
user1646075
 
erm. derp. hi. bye
 
@aclarke Karn Evil 9. That was ELP, not ELO. Predates wide usage of coke, AFAIK.
 
Ell
1:41 PM
Hi
 
@Ell But 'infinite' does not mean 'requires an infinite number of decimal digits to represent'. (It's even a recursive definition.)
 
user1646075
@Ell ummm, recurring numbers are infinite but are ratios. Aren't they? Yes. 1/3 = .333.........
 
user1646075
@JerryCoffin wide use, sure
 
Ell
@R.MartinhoFernandes yeah of course
but I'm pretty sure he mean the latter and not the former
 
Yes, and I'm pretty sure the commenter was trying to correct that.
 
Ell
1:43 PM
Ohh I see
 
That sort of laziness in expression is the same that leads to "the sum of all natural numbers is -1/12"
 
Ell
Yeah fair enough
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit You Never Get Anything?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes That doesn't (at least usually) stem from laziness, but from deliberate action.
 
Ugh, yeah.
So worse.
 
Ell
1:45 PM
I need to refresh my memory of move stuff :S
 
move doesn't move and forward doesn't forward
that's all you have to know
 
What if I told you that std::move actually moves? :P
Being a paradox-enabled robot is awesome.
 
I'm moved
4
 
its a trap
 
1:49 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes In fact, std::move and std::forward were a couple on Dancing with the Stars, and got an 8.7 with several comments about how well they moved together!
 
Ell
Hmmmmm
I wonder that if a shared library is loaded and shared, will it's static variables be shared
 
user1646075
@Ell should not. each process gets it's own fresh copy
 
Ell
I wonder if it's okay for me to use a global to keep a JNIEnv* then o.O
 
user1646075
@Ell globals and gotos. all good
 
Ell
well I'm just thinking. if a shared library gets their own then it shouldn't be a problem
 
user1646075
1:54 PM
no problem. Please excuse the facetiousness.
 
Ell
You are excused ;)
I'm just not sure if it's proper or not
I'd just rather not be passing a JNIEnv* everywhere if I can avoid it
 
user1646075
that's a whole different question.
 
Ell
Yeah :S
 
user1646075
if there is really only one, I'd be tempted. Sure, globals are evil, except when they are, like, global context for things.
 
Ell
I think there is only one
or maybe I could make an Environment class which is a factory for all the other stuff
so you can use that if you want. Maybe
 
user1646075
1:57 PM
disguise the single object inside a factory? what's the point?
 
Ell
Well that way it's not a global so if you do end up having two different JNIEnvs you can still use them
 
I'm high on failures
lallalalalalaala
 
user1646075
i have to help upgrade a Rails 2.3.5 (bletch) to Rails 4.whatever soon, and I'm going to horrify everyone by suggesting we use a global $ohshitversion, and if statements for the occasional differences between the versions until all the shit has been found and the old 2.3.5 deployments are replaced.
 
user1646075
@Ell yup - if that's likely or possible.
 

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