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12:00 PM
literally means 'eat well' doesn't it?
 
That's right
 
@Cicada oh, that's how 'we' see it
but what does it mean
 
Well, appétit is litterally "appetite", the will to eat or something
So it means something like "enjoy your meal"
 
Bon means good. Appetit mean appetite
does not not literally mean good appetite?
or rather good eating?
 
yeah but that doesn't make sense in english
 
Ell
12:02 PM
Enjoy your meal
 
that it most certainly does not :P
 
you have to see it a bit like the japanese "itadakimasu"
 
how's it going?
 
except itadakimasu is self-oriented, whereas bon appétit is said to the others
 
I always found it curious how japanese ppl have the verbs at the end
 
12:02 PM
but really it's a polite thing to do
 
itadakimasu and then gochisousamadeshta
 
@GamesBrainiac turkish do the same. korean too.
 
Ell
what can I do on minicraft today?
I will see :3
 
since they're from the same family of languages anyway
 
@Cicada I dunno how they do it in Turkey, but I have seen Koreans do it
 
12:03 PM
I still think the best use of French I have ever seen is 'Dell Boy' form a a comedy show, 'Only Fools and Horses'. He would like to give out the impression of being posh by saying French, in particular using 'Mongtute' (the flat pea pods) as an exclamation
 
I often find koreans Japanese/Chinese hybrids
They have ancestry from both nations
 
@GamesBrainiac well I tell you they do it too! the three languages share the same roots
 
@Cicada You interested in languages?
 
@thecoshman Yeah we have that reputation of being posh lol
 
Ell
Oh I love dellboy xD
 
12:05 PM
@GamesBrainiac I'd like to learn them all
 
@Cicada I guess normal languages were not enough, you had to learn programming languages too, huh?
@Cicada Was your dad a diplomat? That would explain why you travelled so often
And know so many languages
French, English, Japanese
Turkish too?
 
@GamesBrainiac No he's not
 
What brought you to languages then?
 
@Cicada merci.
 
Travelling abroad
 
12:08 PM
waaah. I feel better now. I should eat more regularly
 
@Cicada I see. Well, I'm glad you like learning something. My sister is the same, but I never loved languages much
English always could do everything for me, so I never had to learn anything else
 
Ell
I think I will use unofficial opengl sdk for learning opengl, anyone had experience with it before?
Actually no. I'll write my own thingy for experience
 
@GamesBrainiac ugh. that's not how you should read it
@Ell ugh
 
Ell
Heh :3
 
@BartekBanachewicz lol...
 
12:10 PM
@GamesBrainiac Honestly, that's a pity
 
Ell
You did the same :P
 
well, yeah
but I've tried a lot before I came to a conclusion they suck
 
I think the amount of less-than-bilingual people in this room is something like 4. :p All UK / US.
 
it's very benefitient to use a few libraries before writing one
 
I'm not bilingual!
 
Ell
12:11 PM
I tried using irrlicht and ogre3d
 
Ich kann Deutsch sprechen, so Ich bin tri-lingual.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Fixed. I'm not bilingual either.
 
Ell
I didn't like ogre's singletons, and I don't understand materials in either of them :P
 
or maybe 2.5
 
Ell
Polyglot
 
12:12 PM
@Ell these are both very high level
I was mostly talking about base fworks here
 
Ell
How about oglplus?
 
Ell
the opengl c++ wrapper
 
Hmm, I do recall something like this
 
Ell
It's loading now, gimme a sec :P
 
12:12 PM
it's terrible
 
Ell
it is?
 
I'm 3.1-lingual :P
 
Ell
I just wanted to make a terrain which would look good in all levels of zoom. I need to learn how shaders work
 
I drink hydrogen-2-oxide
 
I just held a conversation in German with a coworker at lunch. I'm that awesome. Also, I made about seven mistakes per sentence.
 
12:13 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes Only 0.9 more languages to learn!
@R.MartinhoFernandes "Every sentence containing about 3 words"
 
@Ell the last part is correct. The first is not.
 
Ell
I am used to working with blender and I thought that a "material" would transfer to opengl terms easily, but you have to write shaders for everything?
 
of course
#### WARNING : CONFIDENTIAL ####
Valve games have over 2.7k shaders at once
#########################
 
Ell
Oh jeez. Seriously?
 
....
Yeah.
 
12:15 PM
our intel says so (pun intended)
 
I'm going back to having 1 .cpp, and multiple .h files.
So much cleaner, easier, faster to compile.
 
you suck
you suck so terribly
@ThePhD bullshit
It is not faster
 
lololol
WTF dude.
 
At the moment, I'm compiling 3 times as fast in the code I have when I put it all back into my uber-header tree.
And the uber-header doesn't even have any errors.
That's how lovely it is.
 
Ell
12:18 PM
hmm glfw.org/index.html seems okay to get me an opengl window & input fairly sharpish
 
@Cicada Not really spent my time learning advanced mathematics and History. It was well worth the time.
 
Ell
@BartekBanachewicz why not?
 
@ThePhD Are you friggin crazy?
 
@Ell too big
@ThePhD now please add a one line of comment and click build
 
12:19 PM
@GamesBrainiac I still think not knowing more than your native language is a pity. How come you didn't btw, since you travelled so much? Also, I learned maths & history too.
 
Observe behaviour, note, hit yourself in the head and split the goddamn file
 
Ell
@BartekBanachewicz as in, does too much for me? or as in bytes?
 
@Ell this library has its own threads
 
@BartekBanachewicz I'll split the file when the linker doesn't split my asshole.
 
@ThePhD how about stopping sucking? And doing it properly?
 
12:20 PM
"Doing it properly."
 
Do you have SSCCE?
 
What an illustrative example.
 
Ell
"Note that the threading facilities are deprecated and have been removed in GLFW 3.0."
 
19 secs ago, by Bartek Banachewicz
Do you have SSCCE?
@Ell that's new for me. in that case, it might be worth looking at
 
Ell
ahh it's only at 2.7.7 currently anyway
 
12:21 PM
@Cicada Well, I know Bangla, English, (rusty) French, and Japanese. I am rusty on my Polish. My sister on the other hand knows French and German fluntly.
 
@Ell so I'd wait until 3.0
 
I don't know how to cram my whole engine into a SSCCE.
So for the moment, I'll just do it the way it works.
 
@GamesBrainiac Well, see.
 
@ThePhD you have to keep just the error, dumbass
 
@Cicada Well, I wanted to learn more mental math tricks, and I wanted to know more about Ancient, and modern history as well as political science. It just iterested me more
 
12:22 PM
Oh.
 
By the age of 12, I remember I was already past implicit differentiation.
 
That takes a load off, for sure..
 
I guess, I just had different priorities.
 
To each his own
I'm absolutely not interested by non-arithmetic maths for example
 
12:23 PM
And I have no idea what the difference is between intensity and voltage
 
Ell
@BartekBanachewicz how should I start then? What library would you reccomend?
 
I like physics a lot, actually
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes If you have a header-only library, how do you include its pieces into multiple cpp files?
 
I like mind experiments similar to what-ifs. too bad I'm too lame at maths
@ThePhD why do you need robot for this?
 
12:24 PM
exactly.
 
If you have a header-only library you don't have cpp files.
 
@Cicada Well, I guess you just haven't met the right teacher yet! :P
 
@Ell what do you want to do?
 
@BartekBanachewicz Go join CERN! :D Youre in the EU ain'ya?
 
I meant, if you have a header-only library that you're using in a regular c++ project.
Does that make more sense?
 
12:25 PM
CERN is on the boundary of france, switzerland and italy?
 
I'm trying to figure out what exactly about my library is making ti impossible to include in multiple translation units.
 
@BartekBanachewicz No one is lame @ Math. You just need an awesome teacher, thats all.
 
Ell
@BartekBanachewicz I don't know really, I want to learn enough opengl to be able to write what minicraft is now from scratch. I don't know where to start really :S
 
so it's a few k clicks from Gdansk
 
#include <whatever>
@ThePhD Probably missing inlines.
 
12:26 PM
> How to properly design a thread pool that get's rid of finished threads?
lolwut
 
@Ell To do the most advanced parts of minicraft you'd actually need a bit more knowledge than basics :P
 
Does everything have to be inlined?
 
Okay...
 
Except templates.
 
12:26 PM
But you want to focus on raw OpenGL, right?
 
Guess I'll stick inline on everything except templates.
 
Ell
@BartekBanachewicz Right :P Hmm. Well I guess I'll google for a few hours on the basics of opengl :)
 
That's what inline means: "this definition may show up in multiple translation units".
 
Ell
@BartekBanachewicz yeah
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes : Inline just pastes the code into the actual program, sometimes making it faster
 
12:27 PM
Also, did I mention that I am listening to various versions of Ice Ice baby for the past hour?
I just got LP version
and it's awsum :3
 
Does inline have the same meaning as the platform-specific __forceinline and other things in MSVC and GCC?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Thats wat i heard atleast
 
@Ell so SFML will be ok.
 
@ThePhD I'll need to check docs for that
 
@GamesBrainiac I've had an amazing maths teachers 2 years ago. It was pure arithmetic and I loved it. I've never been interested by derivatives / integrals whatever.
 
12:28 PM
It can create 4.3 context for you, and that's all you need.
 
Ell
@BartekBanachewicz right
and I will need glew too?
 
@Cicada waaa? :< mathematical analysis is the best! I thought by arithmetic you also meant that
 
@ThePhD I told you what inline means already. If the compiler treats it specially in some additional way, then, yes, the compiler sucks.
 
@ThePhD No. __forceinline != inline
 
@Cicada But the derivative is such an interesting topic, because in fields of maximum precision, we do not know where something is, just how it changes.
 
12:29 PM
@Ell Or similar. Glew is ok, really. Gets the job done.
 
@BartekBanachewicz Arithmetic = working with integers. Matrices, modulus and whatnot. Usual computer stuff, really
 
@Cicada Okay.
 
@Cicada integers? What about discrete maths?
 
@Cicada Well, you still do need derivatives in mathematical logic.
 
@BartekBanachewicz Not the same
 
12:30 PM
Especially in Automata
 
@Cicada that's why I'm asking
 
I don't know I suck at maths okay
 
I do too.
 
@BartekBanachewicz Discrete Mathematics is the kind of Mathematics that deals with logical operations
 
I like them though
 
12:30 PM
Proofs and things like that
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes What about for const static data that's defined in headers?
 
yes and no
 
Thinks like boolean logic
 
Is sticking inline sufficient enough on those?
 
@GamesBrainiac That's logic (boolean or first-order). We do a lot of that.
@ThePhD Yes
 
12:31 PM
discrete maths is more about relations
and set theory
and graph theory
 
Ah we eat a lot of set theory ohgod
 
@BartekBanachewicz Discrete Mathematics is an abstract term.
It encompasses a lot of things, but all of which is mathematical logic
 
Discrete mathematics is the study of mathematical structures that are fundamentally discrete rather than continuous. In contrast to real numbers that have the property of varying "smoothly", the objects studied in discrete mathematics – such as integers, graphs, and statements in logic – do not vary smoothly in this way, but have distinct, separated values. Discrete mathematics therefore excludes topics in "continuous mathematics" such as calculus and analysis. Discrete objects can often be enumerated by integers. More formally, discrete mathematics has been characterized as the branch o...
 
thats really it
 
^ that's not abstract
 
12:32 PM
@BartekBanachewicz It is. It encompasses everything from logic, to set theory to graph theory
 
-1
Q: Designing Thread Pool for std::async

stefan TL;DR See the last line of the question As the most annoying thing of thread creation through std::async, the following snippet , while creating a new thread in bar(), it does not run in parallel: void foo() { //some task to be done in parallel. } void bar() { std::future<void>...

 
It even goes further into Automata
 
Despite the glaring silliness, this question is actually a good example of how much std::async sucks.
 
What was wrong with std::async again
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes it's not entirely OPs fault that the Q sucks then
umm.
0
Q: Representing Rooted Tree in terms of class

gpuguyI am facing difficulty in understanding the following paragraph taken from Representing Rooted Trees. It basically shows two methods for representing trees. G & T is somewhat clear to me, but the other one is not that much clear to me, which shows class definition. G&T Option: Each...

look at that code and please tell me I am not seeing infinite recursion
 
12:34 PM
On a struct or class definition, do I need any special keywords when writing a header-only library?
 
Ell
bye guise
 
@Ell Later.
 
@BartekBanachewicz Right. The OP is trying to work around the defficiencies of std::async. In a silly way, but well...
 
@BartekBanachewicz yeah he's missing pointers
@ThePhD no. you just need to take care of dependencies
 
@Cicada i think he did it on purpose -.-
 
12:36 PM
Okay.
I will be back when this works.
 
I've had a lot of trouble with that using CUDA :<
 
@ThePhD See you in the summer
 
I had a circular dependency between two classes that I didn't know how to solve
But then again I'm just bad
 
@Cicada Cough
 
I remember that!
 
12:38 PM
@sehe did you get all my plinks?
Get all the plinks!
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes And I remember you helped!
 
Circular dependencies are sometimes representative of the problem domain.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes You mean, you recall?
@BartekBanachewicz Sadly, no. I was away for a while. Perhaps I accidentally 'Esc'
 
0
Q: Wrong cell addressing in array

Stephane KouakouIt looks like cells addressing is wrong in the array below as some of them use same addresses. How could it be possible ? double Ys[4][4]; for(i=0;i<4;i++) { for(j=0;j<4;j++) { Ys[i][j] = 0; cout << " Ys[" << i << "][" ...

lolwut
 
inline is not allowed on data declarations, only on functions...
... so I can't stick inline on const static data members.
Maybe I need some other key word...
 
12:40 PM
@sehe I've created a readme and linked to your page. Too bad it isn't actually a fork so I could merge it normally :P
 
@BartekBanachewicz Oh god. Now you probably want write access :)
 
@BartekBanachewicz Why (else) would you link to a rough clone/fork with random changes?
 
IMHO it's better to make the main branch build normally, instead of creating a repo dedicated to just building the damn thing.
 
@BartekBanachewicz Ah. The readme does explain some things though :) A few dependencies can go
 
12:41 PM
@sehe Because it's the best I can put in the "linux" paragraph right now
 
@BartekBanachewicz Oh aha.
"they are explicitly marked as optional" -> where would that be? Remember, we can't all sling a Visual Studio open
 
@sehe #ifdef ENGINE_USE_X
 
@BartekBanachewicz Wokay. That's not documented, of course, and I didn't see an obvious config.h of sorts :)
 
that might probably be because I am bad at writing libraries
 
I'm not in the habit of scanning all codebase for any conditional compilation, as frequently, they are red herrings, or just 'inherited' from a different project :)
 
12:44 PM
(yet!)
 
@BartekBanachewicz Is ok :)
 
I just want to fix this thing properly; so if your / @Ell / @Cicada changes actually add some value even to integrity and build, it would be great to just merge them
 
@BartekBanachewicz Well, the only thing I seem to remember was returning references to temps in ResourceManager::Get<> (from memory). But that was likely on the master branch only
 
I'll see what I can do!
0
Q: How to deduce template type if I only got pointer to base class

nabulkeHow could I implement function Foo to dispatch to the correct function? The following code reproduces the problem, and got some additional information in comments. #include <string> class Base {}; template<typename T> class Derived : public Base {}; void DoSomething(const Deri...

 
Great :) I just think it's nonsense for everyone to repeat the same steps again and again.
 
12:47 PM
And you'd probably not want to include "windows.h" for no reason, and plaster _CrtDebug (and similar) behind a platform independent function (use asm { int $3 } on linux)
 
ah, I have to add it to issues proper
 
@sehe It's int3 on windows too
 
@BartekBanachewicz But that will happen unless you make the codebase portable
 
To make sure my understanding is not borked...
 
@sehe I am working on it as fast as I can. I've already replaced window creation code
 
12:48 PM
@Cicada I'm pretty sure _CrtDebugHook has a smarter/more convoluted operation. And there is a kernel32.dll function that you can use, which is basically int 3
 
static in a global variable left in the global namespace scope means... that the variable only persists for a single Translation Unit?
 
Too bad I don't have a standalone linux
VBox won't open the context, prolly.
 
@BartekBanachewicz Cool. I don't actually have a stake in this: I just thought it would be nice to see how you "game guys" do things. I have tinkered with OpenGL/SDL before and found it to be overwhelming. I'd like to "learn the trick of the trade" by watching you guys at work
@BartekBanachewicz "the context"? And why not. I'm pretty sure it will
 
@sehe the OpenGL 4.0 context, which requires hardware acceleration
 
@ThePhD No it persists for all the lifetime of the process that loads it. But it's invisble outside the TU
@BartekBanachewicz VBox has hardware acceleration (2d and 3d). At least, it has on Linux :)
 
12:51 PM
@sehe haha, I wish I actually was good enough to be looked at in order to learn something. In the darkness of the topic, I merely hold a match in front of me.
 
@sehe So removing static will remove the invisibility, right?
 
@ThePhD depends. Static is context-sensitive
 
@sehe _CrtDbgBreak is exactly int 3
 
I thought it's int 5
 
@BartekBanachewicz Don't worry. You don't have to be a star game dev to make me learn. In fact, the opposite may apply: the other game was probably too advanced to delve into.
@Cicada Wow. That's boring.
 
12:52 PM
@sehe So are you.
 
@ThePhD Yes.
@BartekBanachewicz The context was stated
 
ah, nvm then
 
@Cicada I know. Why mention it? Repeating boring things about boring things is...
 
also, he is doing weird things; beware
 
@sehe ...interesting!
 
12:53 PM
haha, owned
 
@BartekBanachewicz He always is. ThePhD is like a Zoidberg waiting to blossom
 
@sehe Last thing, then: static on a member variable makes it persist for the lifetime of the application, but does it still have invisibility to other translation units?
 
@ThePhD Damn it. Stop saying "makes it persist". It has little to do with it.
@ThePhD And "yes". A static member is just a non-instance member (i.e. a 'class variable/function', not 'instance variable/function'
 
Sorry. :c
 
Hello, morning, hello hello!
 
12:55 PM
@ThePhD Sorry for my impatience :)
@speeder Cough. Good afternoon too, sir
 
At the moment, trying to use a static const member I have defined in a class in multiple TU's causes Linker errors. So I'm trying to figure out my way around that...
apparently inline is not legal on const static member variables...
 
@GamesBrainiac well, I haven't counted
 
@ThePhD unnamed namespace?
 
Fine, 70 in other tab groups, plus the 35 in the current one. And this is after going through them and closing probably 50 a few day ago
 
You seem to be angry lately @sehe :(
 
<- is writing 2000+ characters/300+ words answer; OP deletes question. FUUUUUUUUUUUUU
7
 
I think I'm just gonna reinstall windows
@R.MartinhoFernandes ahahahaha
 

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