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12:00 AM
You could come to Canada. Our hospitals are in dire need of staff.
 
@Rapptz what is?
 
@Pawnguy7 Casually browsing the internet when I found a tip to call your doctor to ask them if they're in your insurance network before going in.
You shouldn't have to do this
 
well
I've taken a lot of shit from the NHS
but I've gotta admit, I never had to ask them if they actually would help me.
 
Well.
 
Yup.
Time to eat.
 
12:02 AM
Fair enough. Somebody should figure out a way to make proper healthcare, then.
 
ah, that'll never happen.
healthcare is one of those things where providing good healthcare would bankrupt you.
I suspect, anyway.
 
Probably.
Why do it, then?
 
Xeo
"after I invoke using namespace std" - NOXeo 5 secs ago
 
why do what?
 
Xeo
IPOÄADVHÄILAGHDB
 
12:03 AM
@DeadMG provide good healthcare
 
@Pawnguy7 As far as I'm aware, nobody does.
 
Hrm.
Perhaps I am thinking of attempts at better healthcare.
 
in the US, you get terrible healthcare for a horrendous price
and in the UK, you get terrible healthcare for a relatively benign price.
I think some countries like Canada and Germany can still do better than us, though
half the problem is not preventing healthcare problems before they arise.
like smoking.
 
Probably.
 
and demographics.
 
12:06 AM
Though in some cases, we don't know the problems beforehand.
 
true.
 
There is also the matter of...
If you should force people to be healthy.
 
no
but I would choose to send them a bill if their reckless behaviour caused the problem.
if you're addicted to cigarettes, then I'll be happy to pay for you to get help with that.
but if you choose not to get help with smoking, then you can pay your own bills when you get lung cancer.
 
But does it ever work that way?
 
well it would do if I was in charge.
 
12:10 AM
Oct 29 at 1:18, by Pawnguy7
So, DeadMG for president?
 
as far as I am aware.
 
Aware of what?
 
the nature of the universe and human civilization
then it would be greatly improved if DeadMG was President.
 
You can't be POTUS, however.
 
fuck the US.
as far as I'm concerned, they can rot in the pit of their own making.
 
12:12 AM
2.1GB update on Steam for DX:HR Director's Cut... seriously wtf did they change
 
I saw an interesting phrase in a movie recently.
 
you were a phrase?
how does that work, anatomically speaking?
 
Something along the lines of, "if you aren't political when you get in, you will be."
 
get in to what?
 
Apparently I like words in reverse.
@DeadMG political office. President of the US, in this case.
 
12:14 AM
well
since the President is a politician, it seems only logical that he would be in fact a politician before, during, and after his tenure.
 
Like.
Instead of aiming to make good changes.
You... play the game, so to speak.
 
the game is the problem.
a good part of it, anyway.
 
Of course, it must be hard to do anything knowing so many people don't like you.
 
the political system (mostly shared) was designed when our fastest mode of transportation was a man on a horse and we fought each other more than anything else.
and there was frankly little to legislate about.
 
Afaik, Canada has a good healthcare system.
Have never heard anyone complain.
 
12:18 AM
of course
the existing politicians are in power by virtue of how bad it is.
 
Uh... what?
 
er, I was talking about the political system.
not Canadian healthcare.
by all reports they manage it quite well.
 
I don't know what's wrong with NHS.
 
well
 
Where do you find such reports?
 
12:20 AM
I'll grant you, it's no US healthcare.
but it's seriously slow and inefficient.
 
Oh.
 
half the problem of course is that the politicians make decisions that naturally put more strain on it
like not dealing with obesity, smoking, or alcoholism.
and hiring incompetents who've never seen a line of code in their lives to run giant software projects.
 
yikes.
 
and, just like in many other Western nations, right now we're facing an OAP boom, which is of course straining the system.
 
I wonder how this healthcare would work in a global context.
 
12:23 AM
which healthcare?
 
Canada.
 
apparently Japan also has a very efficient healthcare.
still
what we really need to do is wait for the baby boomers to die, and also, we need to prevent another baby boom from occurring again in the future.
 
What about the third world?
 
what about them?
 
Didn't you say they also have overpopulation problems?
 
12:27 AM
yep, hideous.
they can hardly the support the populations they have, and they're breeding like rabbits.
not that the population of the West and such hasn't exploded at various times, but we at least could support what we had first.
 
Do you have an expectation that this will also die out?
 
what will- the overpopulation?
man, you gotta stop losing attention in the middle of conversations.
 
The overpopulation will not die out until it dies out, literally. Hopefuly, I will be long-dead before the whole world turns to shit. Yes, it will.
 
well
first, they'll have to get over butchering each other because someone said the Prophet Muhammad liked a bit of cock.
 
@DeadMG they have efficient everything
 
12:41 AM
well, not everything.
 
third world countries have a high infant mortality rate
so the overpopulation woes aren't as great as they seem
 
sure, but those mortality rates are going down quite hardcore, aren't they?
 
India and China experience overpopulation much more severely.
lol no
 
maybe that's only some African nations.
 
They have a very low life expectancy too and AIDS is quite widespread.
 
12:42 AM
@DeadMG Yeah, like that's gonna happen. .. We're all shagged. This world is finished, but hopefully put off until after I'm cremated.
 
no
it's evolution.
 
Stumbled on this today. Hopefully it's relevant to the current discussion. And before you ask, no, I don't want to be a part of it.
 
Western societies survived because they mutated into a state where they didn't destroy themselves beyond repair
and when third world societies also mutate into such a state, which they will eventually, they will also survive and develop.
it's just a pity that Western efforts to help them along don't seem to have much positive effect, if any.
 
(Hint: there's no Western effort. We're dragging them down.)
 
Western societies survived due to massive agriculture improvements.
 
zch
12:46 AM
They have all the agriculture technology necessary.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Well, I'm happy to suggest that Western effort has a negative effect.
@Rapptz Those improvements came about at least partly because we didn't go around burning down all the libraries and stopping people from being educated.
 
@zch I don't think third-world countries (an outdated term, mind you) have the necessary agriculture technology.
 
zch
Sure they have, what do you think they don't have machines and fertilizers?
 
well, I very much suspect that they don't have the relevant machines.
 
It's also hard to grow stuff in an arid minefield.
 
12:49 AM
I believe the main cause of economic collapse in Zimbabwe was that when they took over from the British, they smashed the machines they used to grow crops, and also killed or exiled the white farmers instead of learning from them.
after that, their agriculture collapsed.
their economic woes are so bad, they can't afford to buy machines and fertilizer like Western farmers can.
also, the whole "Giant minefield" thing doesn't help.
 
zch
"third world" is not some kind of post-apocalyptic wasteland.
 
@DeadMG I am not very good at that, it seems
 
@zch I like how you suggest I'm talking about some extreme.
 
@zch Really?
since when?
 
third world is an outdated term :v
I don't know why people are inclined to use it
 
12:53 AM
well, I kinda agree.
there's only two kinds of country: the kind where people don't shoot each other over political/religious/etc disagreements, and the kind where they do.
 
@zch I believe when people refer to "third world" countries now a days they mean Heavily indebted poor countries.
Heavily Indebted Poor Countries (HIPC) are a group of 39 developing countries with high levels of poverty and debt overhang which are eligible for special assistance from the International Monetary Fund (IMF) and the World Bank. HIPC Initiative The HIPC Initiative was initiated by the International Monetary Fund and the World Bank in 1996, following extensive lobbying by NGOs and other bodies. It provides debt relief and low-interest loans to cancel or reduce external debt repayments to sustainable levels. To be considered for the initiative, countries must face an unsustainable debt ...
I'm bored
 
zch
I think their biggest problems are corrupt regimes, which prohibit stability and economical development.
 
@DeadMG wait, aren't changes in topic regular for conversations?
 
there's a big difference between a change in topic, and just dropping out leaving me hanging
 
1:04 AM
Dropping out?
 
leaving
going to do something else.
without saying anything.
 
I think I left after you said that.
(to eat)
My productivity has been strange today.
 
yar, but if you and I are in the middle of a conversation and you leave, then at least say something so that I'm not sitting here thinking about what I'm going to say when there's nobody to say it to
 
It feels fast, but it is taking longer than it does when it feels slow.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Fucking up YouTube is what people working on YouTube are paid to do
 
1:07 AM
Oh wait.
You didn't say the attention thing right after did you.
 
I dunno, I don't know when our conversations end since you just drop out.
 
For some reason I assumed it was a group conversation :\
So.
How is Wide?
 
plodding along.
today I implemented while(var := expression).
and I'll probably do if(var := expression) tomorrow.
 
Do you have implicit to-bool casts?
 
no.
right now, in Wide, the analyzer supports explicit conversion to bool, but only C++ types can actually define one.
I'll have to handle something about that.
 
1:19 AM
Explicit conversion?
 
yes.
an explicit conversion to bool is basically a conversion operator but, well, it's explicit- only used in some language-specific constructs.
 
So if there is an overloaded operator, it can be used, but not for, say, an int?
 
right.
it's similar to what C++ introduced in C++11.
 
And that is?
UDL?
 
no, explicit conversion operators.
before then you could only have implicit conversion operators.
which permitted all sorts of silly things to be done.
and are generally not good.
 
1:24 AM
I still want explicit functions
explicit int f(int x) {} f('a'); // error
 
in Wide, that is an error.
not that I implemented character literals, but you get my drift.
fact is, I dislike implicit conversions and I no longer support them in Wide OR.
 
I should make a proposal for it for C++17.
but I'd probably never be able to present it
 
eh
it's not worth your time, I assure you.
still
 
I don't see how it'd be rejected though
 
Does using a constructor fall under the term conversion?
 
1:28 AM
@Pawnguy7 Conversion is not a well-defined term.
 
Doesn't add new keywords and the syntax is similar to how it's used for other purposes (explicit operator conversions, constructors)
 
when converting from T to U, then typically, either you call U(T), or you invoke T::operator U().
 
Wait, there aren't explicit functions?
 
no
 
not as Rapptz described them, no.
 
1:30 AM
my idea's neat though
:(
 
But there are explicit constructors?
 
@Rapptz Right, but you're just you and not a bunch of Committee members who want to reject your idea as quickly as possible for any reason so that they can spend time on their own proposals.
@Pawnguy7 In which language?
 
C++.
 
@Pawnguy7 Yeah.
 
yes.
 
1:31 AM
Don't functions have the same problem?
 
no.
 
I think you're confusing yourself
 
just because some function exists which is U f(T), does not mean it can be used globally to convert from T to U.
unlike a constructor.
 
a constructor that does explicit regex(const std::string&) can't accept regex("hello") for example
 
well, actually, it can.
it's more that if you have f(regex) then you can't call f("hello").
there are no limitations on implicit conversions for explicit calls to explicit constructors.
 
1:34 AM
ah right
 
Well.
 
I should stop procrastinating
 
How would you describe the purpose of explicit constructors?
 
conceptually
an implicit constructor says that one type essentially is the same as another type, they just have different representations or something.
an explicit constructor is just "I need this one object of this other type to initialize myself".
 
Assuming you end up with the same type, what harm is there if it came from a different type?
 
1:36 AM
depends on the types.
let's consider std::string and const char*.
a std::string constructed from "Hello" is clearly a string containing "Hello", just like "Hello" is.
there's no such thing as a string literal which is not a valid argument to the std::string constructor, and after conversion, you basically have the same thing as you did before.
 
Yes.
 
but let's consider the regex example.
clearly, a regex and a string are two completely different things.
and there's plenty of strings that are not valid regexes.
 
A regex is an object?
 
yep.
 
Hrm...
have an example with a type I might be familiar with?
 
1:40 AM
hmm
ok, consider a Font.
it's pretty fuckin' clear that not every string is a correct filepath to a font file to be loaded.
and a Font representing a font loaded from a filepath is a completely different thing to that filepath.
 
In such a case.
If the ctor of the font throws.
What happens?
 
well, there's an exception.
 
Does the object with this possibly explicit ctor ever get created?
 
implicit vs explicit only governs what the compiler does when resolving overloads and stuff... the runtime behaviour is identical.
the compiler does not give two shits whether the ctor was explicit when it throws.
it's just a function that throws an exception.
the reason why that function was picked is irrelevant.
 
Like.
If I do someCtor(someOtherCtor(something)).
And someOtherCtor throws.
Does someCtor ever get entered?
 
1:43 AM
C++ VS. C. Who do you think is better
 
@Pawnguy7 Of course not.
how could it be entered?
there's no argument object to be passed to it.
 
I don't know.
 
I mean
 
I thought there was something about exceptions that could call terminate, I forget what it was.
 
ah, yes, there is.
 
1:45 AM
Was it exception in the dtor?
 
it happens in a few cases, but it generally involves throwing exceptions in places you really, really, shouldn't, like destructors or noexcept functions.
in those cases very bad things can happen.
 
Can a noexcept function call something not marked noexcept?
 
yeap
there's no way noexcept would be feasible if it couldn't, because the vast majority of existing code is not noexcept.
 
Fair enough.
Although...
What guarantee do you have that such a function does not throw?
 
if the promise is broken it calls std::terminate
 
1:47 AM
you don't, strictly, actually have a guarantee.
but generally speaking, you say that if the function does throw, then the program cannot continue and is terminated.
 
all containers use std::move_if_noexcept in their move constructors
 
so you can effectively program on the basis that it never throws.
 
Well, I don't know if it's all. But I'm guessing..
 
@Rapptz I would expect that most don't.
a move constructor for a container would typically just move or swap some internal pointers.
 
vector requires it
 
1:48 AM
I think it's unecessary.
 
that's very complicated, but it will almost never actually do that.
it only has to be possible that it can do that.
mess about allocators and other such ugliness- you don't want to know.
 
Nice. We have a appropriately released CTP.
 
in fact, when it comes to exceptions, the whole allocator machinery is broken.
and in some other ways too.
 
Nice. It has decltype(auto). Bonus!
 
Don't know how buggy it is though
I'd love me some decltype(auto) and stuff :/
 
1:52 AM
feel free to pull Clang SVN, they have it.
 
Wait. await? I'm blown away!
 
in fact, Clang has had decltype(auto) since 3.3, apparently.
 
> Await
> This feature utilizes mechanisms provided by the underlying operating system. It can only be used on machines running Windows 8.1 or later.
Damn.
 
decltype(auto) per se is a horrible toxic construct. Function return type deduction is the nice thing which it enables.
 
you can have auto f(..) too..
you only have to do decltype(auto) if you want to keep ref qualifiers
 
1:59 AM
Almost a must to be used in forwarding functions.
 
Yes. And AFAIK lambda functions are stuck discarding the reference unless you give an explicit decltype(auto), so idiomatic lambdas diverge from idiomatic non-lambdas.
 

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