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Xeo
10:03 AM
Cookies. Always cookies.
 
@thecoshman I want cookies!
gets cookies
eats cookie
 
I want a working TCollisionShape class with an extra method that takes a list of TCS as a parameter and returns the index of anything it has collided with, (or -1). It would be even better if it did not continually report a collision with itself, (yes, I did that already:).
..also, choc-chip cookies would be nice.
 
Xeo
I think I'll get me some cookies from Lidl today
 
Good idea - Lidl later.
I have to take Pop the tragic wagon for an MOT test:(
 
10:32 AM
uh dealing with numbers in Haskell is hardz.
 
Xeo
How so?
 
Integer, Int, Float, Double, Rational
can be confusing, and especially generate confusing errors
 
Xeo
> board.ix i <~ Just <$> use player
<~ is cool
 
yay ever more weird operators
 
Xeo
Control.Lens is packed with them
 
10:35 AM
@Xeo what does <~ do?
 
Xeo
They mostly follow patterns, though
@ArneMertz Runs the monadic action on the right, and "assigns" it through the lens on the left
 
Xeo
use player gets the "player" part of the state, inside a monadic action, and Just <$> thePlayer wraps the player to Maybe Player, which is what ix "expects".
 
yay
my code works
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes oh me too
 
10:38 AM
hurh or not :/
 
user1804599
@Xeo the sperm operator! :D
 
logical fallacy, code never works, it's just not been proven wrong yet.
 
@thecoshman you can prove code to be right though
apparently my program computes the average of 3,3,3 as 2.0
 
@BartekBanachewicz you can only prove that it does what you are testing it to do under the exact conditions you are testing it. You can have good faith that that will cover the majority of subtly different cases that it could encounter. IT does not cover things you did not think about though.
 
@thecoshman no, you can formally prove the code correctness. I know what I wrote.
 
Xeo
10:44 AM
@BartekBanachewicz lol, good job
 
@Xeo sigh seems I'll have to get started with Haskell some time...
 
Xeo
@ArneMertz In my case, it's basically the same as this->board[i] = this->player
except without actually assigning anything, of course :)
 
@BartekBanachewicz Really? And you say this after using C++?
 
@BartekBanachewicz erm, you are proving it 'code correct' by testing it for 'code correctness' (testing does not have to be automated)
 
Xeo
State + lenses are really nice together.
 
user1804599
10:45 AM
@Xeo I like %=.
 
@Xeo well than write that and not such a weirdo not-actually-assigning syntax FFS :-P
 
Xeo
@ArneMertz Erm
That was C++
 
@Xeo exactly my point :P
 
Xeo
lol
 
user1804599
@Xeo Is it like do { newField <- Just <$> use player; board.ix i .= newField }?
 
Xeo
10:48 AM
@rightfold board.ix i ?= newField
 
@thecoshman no. You prove code correct by constructing formal mathematical proof.
 
Xeo
p <- use player
board.ix i ?= p
actually, that
 
user1804599
Oh wait. Right.
 
Xeo
?= takes care of that
 
user1804599
10:50 AM
Cool. :3
 
Xeo
What I had before was (board.ix i ?=) =<< use player
I overlooked / didn't fully understand <~ until that point
 
@BartekBanachewicz ... and test that your code matches that. You seem to be thinking that testing code has to involved executing it in some form.
 
@thecoshman you don't have to test anything. Testing is completely irrelevant here
 
@User17 What?
@thecoshman Erm, it pretty much has.
 
You laid down criteria for acceptance, your formal proof, then compare your code gainst it, hence you are testing if your code
 
10:51 AM
@thecoshman no, you don't run the program
dude.
how many times do I have to repeat that?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes you would not say you have 'fully tested' code without running it, but running your code is not the only way to test it.
 
@thecoshman A formal proof is not criteria for acceptance. It's proof that the code matches the criteria.
@thecoshman It pretty much is.
 
@BartekBanachewicz and how many times do I have to say you do not have to run code to test it
 
@thecoshman what.
 
Xeo
@rightfold Actually, I think board.ix i .= Just p is logically more sound in my case, since _board :: [Maybe Player]
And the ?= hides that nature
 
10:52 AM
@thecoshman so how are you going to test it without running it?
 
@BartekBanachewicz lol at the italics
@BartekBanachewicz code review is one form of testing. in this case, quality.
 
@thecoshman It's not.
Quality assurance is testing in the same way that rectangles are squares.
 
@thecoshman actually no.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes ... it is bigger there better? :P
 
Xeo
10:55 AM
Btw, how exactly does infix work, if it gives no associativity?
 
@thecoshman Code review is a form of quality assurance, but it most definitely is not testing.
 
You can't use it in an expression where associativity is needed, probably
 
@thecoshman no, it's more "the other way around"
 
@Xeo It makes it non-associative? (There is such a thing)
 
Code can modify itself, or generate more code
 
Xeo
10:56 AM
@BartekBanachewicz modify succ :P
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes ... hmm...
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes hmm
 
@Xeo snap.
 
@sehe I think to prepare message about that to [std-proposals].
 
If code review was as good as testing, we wouldn't need dynamic analysis, and static analysis wouldn't be so hard
 
11:02 AM
can I get an o with umlot please
 
I can only give you ó
 
thanks
 
user1804599
ö is best smiley.
 
Xeo
11:06 AM
Ö
:O
 
@Xeo you're drunk, go home.
 
what the fuck
 
Argh, overcommit
Who ever thought overcommit is a good idea
Linux :argh:
 
overcommit?
 
Memory allocations on default Linux VMM settings fail only when your entire system has been killed
 
11:12 AM
I see... fascinating...
 
@thecoshman sounds like a git command :P
 
that's what I was thinking.
 
I ran emerge llvm and my TeamCity instance got terminated by OOM-killer
 
user1804599
lol
 
The funny thing is, my friend was talking about commitment to his gf, and all I could think of was commiting in git :P
 
11:13 AM
It's fun, because you never know what's going to die
And when
 
@CatPlusPlus Whats better JIRA or TeamCity?
 
Uh they're not the same type of software
 
user1804599
lol
 
@CatPlusPlus maybe that's your problem, you can only what or when, not both :P
 
What's better, Linux or Steam
 
11:15 AM
Okay, please explain the difference, because I don't have the cash to buy either one of 'em :(
 
@CatPlusPlus erm...
 
I plead ignorant, lord kitty :P
 
@GamesBrainiac lol, you don't have the cache to by either of two free things?
 
@CatPlusPlus haha
 
TeamCity is a continuous integration server (and is also free for 3 agents/20 configurations)
 
11:15 AM
@GamesBrainiac TeamCity is build management. JIRA is issue tracking...
 
So TeamCity is like Travis?
 
JIRA is also free for open source software
@GamesBrainiac Yes
 
@GamesBrainiac more or less
is Wikipedia down for you?
 
Is TC atlasian too?
 
11:16 AM
ie, is TC shit too?
 
JetBrains
 
¬_¬ probably shit though :P
 
Ahh, so TeamCity basically just takes your software, builds it and then just runs the tests.
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Why would you need JIRA, when you already have free issue tracking on bitbucket?
 
That's the gist of CI yes
 
@GamesBrainiac Bugzilla
 
11:17 AM
BB issue tracker is incredibly primitive
 
@CatPlusPlus s/issue tracker //
 
@CatPlusPlus Define primitive, because you have issues, and you set them to a person, and if it gets solved, the issue gets archived, what else is there? I mean what extra thing does bugzilla provide?
 
@GamesBrainiac more or less everything in BB is either 100% public (read AND WRITE) or 100% private
there is basically no user control
 
That is ok in the issue tracker.
 
@thecoshman Whats he problem with that? I mean you can let some users view your files, by just adding them to the repo, right?
 
11:23 AM
Security issues should not be public
 
@CatPlusPlus So, just keep one repo private and the other public. Like in one repo, publish all your binaries or your completed files, and in the other make sure that just developers will work on it.
 
@GamesBrainiac ... because whilst I appreciate people being able to open issues, I do not want them to be able to close, set them to accepted etc.
 
@GamesBrainiac Custom workflows, custom fields, assignee groups, CI integration, per-issue visibility (e.g. for mentioned security issues), issue hierarchies and more complicated relationships (e.g. issue X is blocking issue Y), time tracking
And yeah permissions
 
@thecoshman That doesn't happen.
 
The same 'control' is applied to the wiki, with BB you can not make a wiki that you get to edit, but the public just gets to view.
@R.MartinhoFernandes what stops it?
 
11:26 AM
@thecoshman BB
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes no it does not.
or have they finally implemented some features?
 
@thecoshman Go ahead and close it: bitbucket.org/martinhofernandes/wheels/issue/1/…
@thecoshman It has been like that since ever.
 
@CatPlusPlus Hmm, I'm slowly wrapping my head around this. I understand how issue hierarchies would be very useful. And JIRA does not have CI, as you've said.
 
But still you can't disallow e.g. setting priority on new issues
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes touché
 
11:28 AM
Or not setting the assignee without triage
 
Empirically, if code can be verified as 'incorrect' it is unacceptable to the customer. If code can be verified as 'correct', it is unacceptable to the customer. If the whole system can be demonstrated to perform exactly as requested by the customer, it is still unacceptable to the customer. It becomes acceptable when it stays up for long enough to do whatever it was the customer actually wanted.
 
@GamesBrainiac Dunno about JIRA, YouTrack integrates with TeamCity both ways
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes oops, seems I can't remove my comment :P
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes this however is fucking stupid as hell!
 
11:30 AM
did I mention how spectacular "Gravity" is?
 
@thecoshman Yes.
 
That wiki is crappy anyway
Right now I'm trying to get Git working with TeamCity
 
YouTrack is nice.
 
ergh... shudders... clearcase
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Slowpoke :P
 
11:30 AM
Test connection failed in ogonek :: SCons. Cannot find revision of the default branch 'refs/heads/master' of vcs root "<deleted VCS root> jetbrains.git" {instance id=-100, parent internal id=-1, parent id=_deleted_-1, description: "https://github.com/rmartinho/ogonek.git#refs/heads/master"}
 
actually shudders...
 
waaat
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I tend to have a soft spot for jetbrains products :)
 
@CatPlusPlus Use the iterators-must-go branch. Ninja is not on master yet.
 
I'm trying to do whatever, but it doesn't even checkout
 
11:31 AM
I run my instance at bugs.flamingdangerzone.com.
@CatPlusPlus Oh, no master branch.
 
:13026852
:argh:
 
There's stable, devel, gh-pages, and the feature one.
 
YOU DEFY CONVENTIONS
I'm tired, haven't even noticed :(
 
JBL
@CatPlusPlus Which ? :D
 
1 min ago, by R. Martinho Fernandes
@CatPlusPlus Oh, no master branch.
 
11:34 AM
@ScottW Yes Robot sucks
 
JBL
@R.MartinhoFernandes I know.
'twas "Which" as in "whose conventions ?"
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes you actually host it yourself?
 
@JBL Uh, git's?
 
Wait, not that.
Mine is not a trial.
 
no master, '.h++' and '.c++' extensions, the robot really does like to swim upstream
 
11:37 AM
Ah, right, 10 user limit.
 
Oh hey guess what I forgot to disable before running ninja
 
JBL
@CatPlusPlus Meh... I encountered a repo in previous experience where people would not have any "master" because "it doesn't explicitely tells what the branch represents".
 
So...?
That doesn't change the fact that conventional default Git branch is master
Nov 19 12:37:16 castiel kernel: Out of memory: Kill process 30440 (java) score 283 or sacrifice child
Nov 19 12:37:16 castiel kernel: Killed process 30440 (java) total-vm:5442364kB, anon-rss:639188kB, file-rss:0kB
Sacrifice yourself you stupid piece of shit
 
Ow.
How much RAM do you have?
 
11:40 AM
(Still emerging llvm?)
 
@JBL yes it does... it's the master, as in the one that rules the roost, the one that you should never disagree with, never argue with, take the most care with.
 
No, I ran ninja and it defaulted to 8 g++ processes!
 
@CatPlusPlus lol
 
Fuck overcommit
 
@CatPlusPlus Here it defaults to 10.
 
11:41 AM
0
Q: Best "pass" command in JS?

user2958725I need a statement that does nothing. What's the most readable and reliable one to use? Is it ;? Are there better alternatives? I intend to use it in, among others, the following way: if(skip) ; else if(foo) foo(); else bar(); Will this have any unintended effects?

 
JBL
@thecoshman It's not my interpretation. Just shows that some people don't find it explicit/expressive. It results in them having no "master" branch as a convention.
 
lol "primarily opinion-based"
 
JBL
Oh well.
 
there really is a question closing epidemic nowadays, and that's coming from me!
 
@JBL it's a convention, I wouldn't find it intuitive to drive one side of the road, but convention dictates that I do
 
JBL
11:44 AM
@thecoshman Of course, except here nothing forces them to follow it (whereas on the road, regarding sides, it's not a convention, it's law :/)
 
@JBL how does that change anything? In the git world, the conventional thing to do is use 'master'. Every introduction I have ever seen explains what this concept of master is.
 
Ugh I'm so close to just ordering that Hetzner big server
Right now 2GB seems to not be reasonably enough
 
Xeo
Nom, cookies.
 
And it's 40$
 
oooh, your own a server @cat, explains the 2GB
 
11:47 AM
Whereas 48GB/2TB drive is 60€
 
JBL
@thecoshman Well, these people live in another world then.
 
I downloaded all of STL's lectures :)
They're all mine, I tell you, all mine! :P
 
Yeah fuck Linode, let's go all-in heavy
 
@JBL who... those who understand what a 'master' branch is, or those who reject conventions for no good reason?
 
16GB RAM VPS is 320$/mo
48GB RAM dedicated server is 60€/mo
I don't get hosting these days
 
11:51 AM
@Xeo The robot is safe under cultural references
 
I really don't
 
@CatPlusPlus Do you have VPN?
 
Xeo
@CatPlusPlus lol
 
@CatPlusPlus includes support, likely
 
... ergh... trying to think of even a half arsed reason why the VPS would be so much more than a dedicated...
uptime maybe?
option to scale at will?
 
Xeo
11:52 AM
Nom salad.
 
@GamesBrainiac I've planned to hide SSH and admin stuff behind a VPN, but OpenVPN connection is too slow and I don't have time to learn strongSwan or anything else
@thecoshman Depends; you can live migrate VMs in a good setup
@thecoshman It's easier, yes
 
@CatPlusPlus Hmm, Imma gna search up strongswan
 
Virtualisation is pretty cool, but these prices make no sense
 
-5
Q: What is the meaning of ::~ operator in C++

MisakiIn the following piece of code, what is the meaning of ::~ GaussianMex::~GaussianMex() { int i; }

 
@sehe vOv
 
11:54 AM
@CatPlusPlus is it 8x the price easier?
 
The what
 
@CatPlusPlus isn't one of the main purposes of virtualisation to make things cheaper?
 
lol chrome says strongswan's website is unsafe.
 
@thecoshman Depends
 
I know it has other advantages
 
11:55 AM
VMs are really flexible
 
but the fact you can take advantage of not all servers running at 100% means you can sell more resources then you physically have.
 
But you still need hardware to run them
 
Xeo
@CatPlusPlus Can't you just run a VM on your dedicated server?
 
They can be cheaper in cloud-like stuff
 
I'll just stick to my dedicated :D
 
Xeo
11:56 AM
For 320$/mo you could get 4 dedicated servers and do stuff between them
 
Provided that a) you have the scale or b) don't run it 24/7 but only occasionally
@Xeo Yes
I don't think I'm going to bother with bare-metal hypervisor, though
 
JBL
@thecoshman The latter.
 
Xeo
@LightnessRacesinOrbit I don't get all the downvotes.
 
@Xeo It's because he didn't try to learn C++ before resorting to asking.
He's on the wrong side of that thin line.
 
user1804599
Yay.
 
user1804599
12:11 PM
Configuring email is so much fun.
 
user1804599
Especially WRT DNS.
 
Cos obviously what you should do when your hard disk breaks down is to immediately access ALL the data on it using the filesystem
 
It's an early warning :v
 
Well, first thing I would do is save everything I've got open to a USB stick.
Meh.. uTorrent just blew up:( Maybe my hard disk is dying.
 
user1804599
12:33 PM
@Darklighter I like your avatar.
 
@rightfold ok
it didn’t work in the beginning due to a SO Bug, i had this avatar with no specific URL, so it changed a few weeks back
 
Today's C on SO: 'z=++x||++y&&++z;'
Why can I never seem to get all ingredients together for anything in one place? I have goods, a box, packing, label, advice note, delivery address but no sodding tape:(( Today is pissing me off already.
 
@MartinJames yes and then i'd power down and probably do a bitlevel image copy from some bootdisk
just to minimise reads
of course if I were really concerned then I wouldn't even do that
 
12:48 PM
All my backups are up-to-date, (almost:).
 
Imaging can't hurt if you've got time
 
Fucking Nürtingerstr why does everything I have to do with the Germans ALWAYS have a funny char in it so I have to look up the stupid keycodes:(
 
Add them to your keyboard layout if you're using them often
 
Xeo
@MartinJames ÄÖÜäöüß, keep it for later.
 
@Xeo Thanks. 'GermanShit.rtf' written:)
 
Xeo
12:54 PM
".rtf" - more like ".wtf"
 
:)
@CatPlusPlus I've got an Acronis image of system disk and the bootloader on a stick. I should be OK..
Talking of GermanShit, We play them tonite on TV. A 'friendly' at 20:00.
 

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