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Xeo
7:00 PM
@FredOverflow Or... classes.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I took your suggestion and improved it :)
 
@Xeo ...or send your monads to class to they learn something, instead of just lying there like burritos.
 
@melak47 I can see you typing ;)
 
@WarrenFaith ....huh?
 
Turn around ;)
 
user1804599
7:03 PM
Hmm, you know.
 
user1804599
I’ll just require that data type names are capitalised and variable and function names are not. Problem solved!
 
you suck tremendously.
 
@DeadMG maybe you suck too?
 
user1804599
People who don’t follow the conventions suck tremendously. vOv
 
requiring such a convention shows that you can't design a grammar
 
user1804599
7:08 PM
I’ll also require { be on the same line and that the code is indented with four spaces.
 
Xeo
@DeadMG Honestly, I don't see the problem.
 
@Xeo there goes for your belief in me :<
 
user1804599
There are basically three options:
1) Ugly code.
2) Complex grammar.
3) Require something everybody does anyway.
 
@Xeo Start with, say, languages that don't have capitalization. Is it Arabic or CJK or something like that?
and then move to, say, interoperating with other languages, like C, which have many functions starting with upper case letters.
and you might also want to say that in fact, it's pretty common to use PascalCase.
 
Xeo
@BartekBanachewicz Implying I ever had any :P
 
user1804599
7:12 PM
Why am I even talking about this stuff to somebody who mixes forward slashes and backslashes in #include directives in the same project.
 
Xeo
@DeadMG Haskell uses the mentioned "conventions" and can interface just fine with C.
 
@rightfold I don't do that.
 
what suck thinks capitals makes a difference???
pls give me less symbols not more it is so necessary to have 26 not 52
 
user1804599
 
@rightfold www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/learningnorwegian/
 
user1804599
7:21 PM
Norwegian is a useless skill on the Internet.
 
@rightfold so is being mean in a chat room
 
user1804599
Indeed, so stop being mean.
 
@rightfold im not being mean
 
user1804599
You came in and just dumped an unreadable question out of nothing.
 
user1804599
I mean, that’s quite mean.
 
Ell
7:24 PM
@EwokNightmares Do you speak norwegian?
 
@Ell ja
 
Ell
teach me.
:D
 
@rightfold no it is not mean
 
Ell
@EwokNightmares it offended me :(
 
maybe you are the one who needs to learn english and check your dictionary for the word "mean"
 
Ell
7:25 PM
> unkind, spiteful, or unfair.
> (especially of a place) poor in quality and appearance; shabby.
 
lol, I thought he was kidding or trying to creep me out or something, but @WarrenFaith was actually behind me on the train :)
 
Ell
@melak47 does he come in the chat? o.o
 
user1804599
@melak47 On a scale from not cool to cool, that’s quite cool.
 
@Ell chat yes, this particular room? He's an android guy, so my guess would be no :p
 
Ell
I wonder how accurate you could write a "Does it halt?" programme
 
Xeo
7:29 PM
not. as soon as you do, you've hit the halting problem
 
@Ell very accurate: run the program. when it halts, print "it halts!"
 
Xeo
because the program in question could query if itself halts.
 
Ell
I know the halting problem is impossible to solve or whatever, but humans can estimate, so I wonder if it could be estimated by another programme
 
@Ell Just return true;.
all programs will be replaced eventually, and therefore will stop executing.
 
Xeo
@DeadMG return $ Just True;
 
zch
7:31 PM
If you restrict it to programs that use bounded memory or time than it becomes decidable, of course.
 
@Ell it appears I have no HAL
 
user1804599
@Xeo That doesn’t just return true. :D
 
oh, robor's talk was today?
 
Medical visit tomorrow. :(
 
user1804599
@Ell bool doesItHalt(Program) { for (;;); }.
 
Xeo
7:31 PM
@melak47 right now, in fact
 
@melak47 Where?
 
@Jefffrey here, in Berlin
 
Isn't there a livestream or something?
 
Ell
Will it halt?
 
user1804599
user image
7
 
zch
7:35 PM
@rightfold That's called "partial correctness" - correct when terminates.
 
well
I succeeded in building Wide on Ubuntu.
 
@DeadMG yay !
 
it doesn't work though.
 
It compiles, ship it? :D
 
7:37 PM
lol.
 
Why are they legalizing these drugs...
For non medical use anyway.
 
user1804599
@sehe I’m reading about Spirit but I really have no idea how to return a value from a parser. :V I can attach impure actions to them and store values in variables but how can I return those values and use them in other parse actions?
 
@rightfold that is mean
 
Ell
@DeadMG it links now?
 
yep.
I'm not ready to commit the changes though because some of them will break compilation on Windows.
 
7:43 PM
@Pawnguy7 Because we don't want to continue to waste billions of dollars (or Euros, or whatever) attempting to enforce laws against them that seem to have accomplished nothing useful at all?
 
Ell
@DeadMG can you get a diff with hg?
and send me the diff?
 
I have no idea how to do that on Linux.
 
Ell
hmmm
let me have a look
 
besides
there's little purpose in you trying it because currently it doesn't execute correctly and I have no idea why not.
 
@JerryCoffin I don't know of statistics
But...
On one hand, everybody wants healthcare for everybody.
 
7:45 PM
@Pawnguy7 Then stop right there. Ideology will get you nowhere.
 
And we are letting people kill themselves.
 
user1804599
@DeadMG Probably just hg diff.
 
@Ell here, this should be ~50% accurate :p
 
user1804599
At least, with Git it’s git diff.
 
@Pawnguy7 Yes, but these people are victims, not criminals.
 
7:46 PM
#include <random>

std::random_device rd;
std::mt19937 mt(rd());
std::uniform_int_distribution<int> halt(0, 1);

bool does_it_halt() {
    return halt(mt);
}
 
Ell
@rightfold is that the same format as a diff that can be applied? o.O
Oh yah. that's cool
 
it is against the law to be born because your cell splitting is killing urself
 
@EtiennedeMartel well
Somewhat.
 
user1804599
It should be against the law to abbreviate “your.”
 
@rightfold why????
 
7:47 PM
Still.
 
And anyway, not every drug is equal.
Why is alcohol still legal if marijuana isn't?
 
user1804599
Marijuana is legal. :D
 
I asked that recently, actually.
 
@rightfold Fuck you.
 
According to @DeadMG, because unlike others, it is not always bad, and...
 
Ell
7:48 PM
@EtiennedeMartel hehe
 
It is a bit late to stop it.
 
@Pawnguy7 Here's why: because you can't just make something illegal and make the problem disappear.
That's why we have a "black market".
 
This is true.
 
Want to get rid of crime? Attack the causes of the crime, not the symptoms.
 
But why do we make anything illegal?
 
7:49 PM
who the hell is the government to decide that an object shouldn't exist?
 
@EtiennedeMartel That is wise as well.
 
if there is market demand sell it, just don't advertise it as healthy
 
If you don't want people to consume drugs, find out why they're consuming it in the first place.
@A.H. When it's a public health issue.
 
Although.
Isn't making it not legal attacking it at its source?
Otherwise drug dealers are legal, are they not?
 
Nope.
If it's legal, you can regulate it.
 
7:50 PM
@EtiennedeMartel public health ? If I am allowed to eat ridiculously unhealthy food I am allowed to smoke weed. just not blow the smoke into a baby's face
 
I don't know much in this area, I will admit.
 
People doing drugs are not a problem, it's their fucking choice. People doing drugs in public, possibly causing a mess, are a problem. I'd institute private buildings controlled by medical experts in which doing drugs would be legal.
 
@A.H. Right, the whole "it's all about me" argument.
 
@Pawnguy7 they will pay taxes, there will be regulations on the quality of their product leading to less deaths
 
Well.
Here is my concern.
 
7:51 PM
No black market, no people overdosing, no AIDS. Don't fight a problem. Control it.
 
While it is their choice.
 
Channel it.
 
Addiction often isn't a choice.
 
@EtiennedeMartel unless its a risk to people around you the government shouldn't butt in. In some places its incredibly easy to get a gun isn't that a public health issue?
 
@Pawnguy7 Addiction is caused by the first try, which is a choice.
 
7:52 PM
@Pawnguy7 ur mixing cause and effect
 
@Xeo it's going to be just an introduction, anyway
 
Hm.
How about.
 
10 minutes is awfully short
 
More information on the subject?
I imagine less people start smoking now than before.
 
@A.H. Again, you seem to assume that it's easy to determine such a thing.
 
7:53 PM
Then again, it seems there are many teen pregnancies, so perhaps that just is my imagination.
 
@Pawnguy7 In my personal opinion that doesn't change shit.
 
@EtiennedeMartel well what kind of public health risks were you talking about ?
 
is there a cp flag that will force it to overwrite any existing files?
 
@DeadMG mean
suck
 
man cp
 
7:54 PM
@A.H. Take cigarette, for instance. It leads to cancer. Which we'll have to treat at one point.
 
@A.H. Yeah, I'm going to, but my terminal is busy right now :(
 
open another
and flag is -f or --force. actually I am not sure
 
@Jefffrey Hm? If I was going to do action A, if I knew it will likely kill me later, I would probably reconsider.
 
Even if you think healthcare should be private, that guy with lung cancer can't work. He's not contributing to society in any meaningful way.
 
@DeadMG how do i send this to bin???
 
7:55 PM
@Pawnguy7 I doubt that. Or at least not for some people.
 
Any individual has a deep impact on society as a whole, and that impact isn't necessarily apparent or immediate.
So that's why you need an entity over it to supervise all that.
 
@EtiennedeMartel yes but what is a health risk that is worth it ?
I mean the same argument can be made against lots of things
 
Ell
errrrmaaagerdd
 
I'm saying you can't stop people from being selfish (because if you could, libertarianism would self destruct in a matter of minutes).
 
Ell
I just realised I've been stuck on the stupidest bug for a week
 
7:56 PM
@EwokNightmares you're not the room owner
 
What's the name of the event in which robot is talking?
 
@BartekBanachewicz so it is suck
suck goes to the bin
 
@EwokNightmares what are you waiting for?
 
Who is this Ewok person?
@Ell do tell
 
@Pawnguy7 It's a fluffy animal.
 
7:58 PM
@DeadMG I think it overwrites by default
 
Ell
@Pawnguy7 I copy and pasted two lines in the wrong order last week and it took me until now to realise :P
 
I was considering the avatar, but anyway.
Just... what is their obsession with "mean" and "suck".
@Ell was it a fatal bug?
 
Ell
@Pawnguy7 yah
oh wait. that didn't solve it
turns out there is more to it :P
ah well.
 
Copy/paste seems to be good at breaking things.
 
@Ell often that is how these happen :(
 
8:00 PM
amateurs. I don't need copy/paste to break my code! :)
 
@DeadMG There's no -f?
 
@melak47 it is just one of many tools I possess for this purpose
 
Ell
if(true) {
    std::copy(i, next_tag_header.tag_length, std::ostreambuf_iterator<char>(std::cout));
} else {
    std::vector<char> tag_data_(next_tag_header.tag_length);
    std::copy(i, next_tag_header.tag_length, tag_data.begin());
    i++;
    std::copy_n(tag_data.begin(), next_tag_header.tag_length, std::ostreambuf_iterator<char>(std::cout));
}
I can't see why changing true to false would alter the output :S
@EtiennedeMartel oh lordy
 
@EtiennedeMartel Sad. Very. Very sad.
 
Ell
8:10 PM
It doesn't sound real
 
@EtiennedeMartel seems like flame-bait
 
I know there's Poe's Law and everything, but there are way too many people who think like that to simply dismiss this one as "another troll".
 
hmm
how do I find the stdlib include paths?
 
Even if it's real, is there any reason we should be concerned.
There's so much stuff happening in this world.
 
There was a madman with a shotgun at my workplace yesterday
 
Ell
8:16 PM
@kbok gosh, was anybody hurt? :S
 
No, he just shot in the air and ran away
He was at a news station before though, and hit someone. The guy's at the hospital now
 
Ell
well that's good news for your workplace
 
Yeah, but still, it proves the security is not very good
 
user1804599
Ugh.
 
@rightfold How's the job hunt?
 
user1804599
8:21 PM
The Dutch fiscus has such a cluttered website.
 
user1804599
How fucking difficult is it to make a decent UI for people if you want them to tell you their incomes.
 
user1804599
They still think I’m jobless.
 
Xeo
room topic changed to Lounge<C++>: StackOverflow gives rep. We don't. [c++] [c++11] [c++1y] [no-questions]
 
user1804599
I find the lack of space disturbing.
 
user1804599
@kbok Either I’m bad at finding them or they are bad at making them visible to people.
 
8:23 PM
so
part of the reason why adding the include paths fails might be because I never actually implemented adding them.
 
Xeo
lol
 
@rightfold The best jobs are not visible to the public
3
 
user1804599
Tuesday snow. :D
 
I've been contacted for a job where the salary is 20% higher compared to my current one, I wonder if I should go, at least to secure leverage against my own employer to negociate a raise
 
@kbok You know where you could get a better salary? Montreal :3
 
8:28 PM
@EtiennedeMartel I'll think about it if I can survive this winter
 
Hey, trying to figure out what pattern the following numbers are using : 1,2,3,4,6,9,18 ? any ideas ?
 
@kbok If you want to keep your current job, might be better to use it as leverage in such a way that your current employer doesn't feel threatened--communicate that you like your current job, but would like a raise, and point to this other company offering more.
I don't know, though.
I just remember reading an article about people leveraging job offers and how it could damage trust.
 
@caps I'm a consultant so I don't really care about my employer's feelings
 
when make runs a post-build command, I wonder what the working directory is?
 
@kbok I'm referring to the employer-employee relationship.
 
8:31 PM
My client's opinion of me is more important to me, and they don't really care about the remuneration
 
Leveraging one job for another can be short-sighted.
 
user1804599
@kiasy factors of 36.
 
rightfold thanks !
 
Oh great, once again one of those C libraries where the documentation is the header
 
8:34 PM
My gay friends won't go shopping with me ;<
 
user1804599
Heterophobia!
 
@MohammadAliBaydoun why?
 
They don't like it ;_;
 
@kbok squee
 
Oh wait, there's a 100-line API.txt. Nevermind great documentation such wow
@BartekBanachewicz what's up?
 
8:36 PM
@kbok the roof. Not much. Haskell, uni shit, guitar.
 
Last year of uni I guess?
 
@rightfold You don't even need to attach actions to consume/propagate the values
Lemme give some examples
 
I'm on 5th semester. I can run away after 7th.
 
user1804599
@sehe Hmm.
 
Ell
8:37 PM
coliru down :(
 
Xeo
HA
SUCCESS
 
user1804599
@Ell works finezors.
 
user1804599
@BartekBanachewicz
 
@rightfold :v I play for fun of it.
 
If I initialize a static local variable with by calling a function, that function only gets called once, right?
 
Ell
8:41 PM
yah
 
user1804599
Ja.
 
@rightfold lol. It's taking me some time to remove unneeded cruft from my template :/ I'll stick with some ballast because I know you can handle it
 
@BartekBanachewicz One year to go huh
 
Xeo
@EtiennedeMartel In C++11, ya
 
@rightfold How would you prove that only 1,2,3,6,9,18 are the positive integers that give you a remainder of 0 if you do (5n+18)/(n) ?
 
Xeo
8:43 PM
in C++03 as long as you don't have a data race :P
 
any ideas ?
 
user1804599
 
@kiasy prove by induction
 
@rightfold Parsing a single char: coliru.stacked-crooked.com/a/a0b7877e569129f9
 
8:44 PM
umm ow exactly ? Like there's not enough info
 
user1804599
@kiasy I don’t know. I just googled «"1 2 3 6 9 18"» and one of the results told me it was the list of factors of 36.
 
these are all factors of 18 actually as 36 is also a divisor of 36
 
(damn compiling is slow)
 
user1804599
That still reads the data into a variable.
 
8:47 PM
Nevermind -.-
 
@rightfold what do you want to do instead? ejaculate aggregate?
I'm getting there. Watch this: http://coliru.stacked-crooked.com/a/49bcb6220f5d5a08
Parsing into 3 variables at once (yay)
 
Has anyone here used libmp3lame?
 
boost::spirit::kamasutra
3
 
Ell
@kbok Nope. It's used in audacity iirc
 
@Ell I'd rather read the example app :)
 
Ell
8:51 PM
good idea :P
 
user1804599
struct VarDecl { string name; expression* value; };
struct Expression { … };

auto varDecl = identifier >> '=' >> expression; // how would I use the identifier and the expression here to initialise the VarDecl? I also want to be able to use varDecl in another parser and read the VarDecl into some other structure.
 
Mathematical induction is a method of mathematical proof typically used to establish a given statement for all natural numbers. It is done in two steps. The first step, known as the base case, is to prove the given statement for the first natural number. The second step, known as the inductive step, is to prove that the given statement for any one natural number implies the given statement for the next natural number. From these two steps, mathematical induction is the rule from which we infer that the given statement is established for all natural numbers. The method can be extended to...
 
@rightfold Now get this: same 3 fields into an... AST node :) http://coliru.stacked-crooked.com/a/bc4ea2f9003afcef
Note how printing it was simplified too
@rightfold wait a second
 
fuck.
Clang rejects libstdc++ 4.7.2's iostream header, and I can't modify it to work around it like I did with MInGW because of those shitty permission things.
 
posted on November 19, 2013 by Anders Schau Knatten

The Story (you can skip this part) Back in April I went to the excellent ACCU 2013 conference. I had been playing with the idea for an online C++ quiz for a while, but decided I didn’t have the time to do it. Then, after a few glasses of wine at the conference dinner and […]

 
user1804599
8:55 PM
Also Karma seems cool. Might use it to generate the ECMAScript code.
 
Xeo
@DeadMG namespace std{ struct type_info; }
just before your <iostream> include
 
hm
that'll be difficult to do from Wide, and also, it's nothing to do with missing a type_info declaration :P
 
Xeo
hm, that's what Clang complained about for me
 
nah, I've seen it before.
it's a bug where if you define the destructor of a template class in the namespace, Clang thinks you defined a return type for it.
 
user1804599
ECMA-262 y u no clickable TOC.
 
9:16 PM
Sigh.
Getting nothing done today.
 
@rightfold stop me.
I'm making it too complicated. This is what always happens. I don't stop :)
 
user1804599
lol :P
 
user1804599
HALT!
 
Hammerzeit
 
@rightfold DANKE
Here's the intermediate result: coliru.stacked-crooked.com/a/3e22cbcd1fe5619e
There's something wrong with the karma generator for the statement block (last example), but I was cutting all kinds of corners, so be it
 
9:23 PM
Those comments...
 
Because poor Coliry won't handle it (the timeout doesn't seem to work /cc @StackedCrooked), here's the output: paste.ubuntu.com/6444928
 
I'll just reboot the server for a change.
 
Ell
I have isolated my issue!
 
@Ell Your head?
 
user1804599
@sehe Is that the declarative programming paradigm?
 
9:28 PM
@rightfold I dunno. It's the way I code quick-and-dirty Spirit samples. Does that count?
 
user1804599
It appears to magically construct the std::vardecl; you never call its ctor directly.
 
@rightfold BOOST_FUSION_ADAPT_STRUCT (means: magically define all the traits that expose the struct as a Fusion sequence (think: tuple of it's fields))
@rightfold So, yes: that's "declarative style" or, if you stick to Spirit jargon, automatic attribute propagation. See also
8
A: Boost Spirit: "Semantic actions are evil"?

seheI'm sure Hartmut will answer in a second. Till then, this is my take: No that is not an official point. Semantic actions have some drawbacks The simplest disadvantage of semantic actions is the stylistic notion of separation of concerns. You want to express syntax in one place, and semantics ...

 
hmm
welp, I managed to produce an object file, but now I can't convince g++ or ld to link it :P
 
So.
Child of Light is so fucking beautiful.
Can't tell if the game is going to be any good, but man that art direction.
 
9:36 PM
@DeadMG g++ -o executable_name object_file.o
 
@DeadMG linking is overrated. You know, the bug rate is far lower if you don't
 
hm
just a bunch of undefined reference to libstdc++
 
Ell
I thought g++ automatically links that
 
so did I.
 
It does
 
user1804599
9:39 PM
@sehe I think I will just use Bison instead. :S
 
@rightfold trololol
 
user1804599
I have attempted to understand Spirit many times but I never got anything of it.
 
@rightfold that's probably because you know Bison
 
user1804599
Bison and Parsec. :v
 
ANTLR and Coco/R here
 
9:40 PM
@EtiennedeMartel Yup, looks beautiful. The game itself looks like it has a unique charm, too.
 
@DeadMG you sure you didn't use gcc instead?
 
lol
 
yep
 
@sehe Since you're talking about alternatives, is there one for karma, so generating?
 
@MikeM Not very close. Boost format could be made to help you, I guess. But even Karma is rather limited (IMO)
 
Xeo
9:43 PM
> Der Benutzername muss aus 4 - 20 Zeichen (Buchstaben und Zahlen) bestehen.
GAHSIOÜÄGHÜÄOGH
BLOODY HELL
FUCK WHOEVER INTRODUCED THAT STUPID RESTRICTION
 
yeah that's bad.

Who the fuck
Makes a website in German
!@#!@#!#$@#@%
 
@sehe Up to now I'm pretty happy with karma, except 3.5 GB compilation size, but that may be my poor crafting of rules
 
@MikeM Nah. It's likely the effect of non-variadic variants (c++03 compat...) and optimizing compilers
Try -O0 for less memory, -Os perhaps
 
aright.
the reason there's a linker error is because libstdc++ doesn't expose those symbols, because they're inline.
 
@sehe Thank you. Where do you see karma limited?
 
9:45 PM
and Clang didn't properly generate the definitions for them.
christ I'd forgotten all about how incredibly annoying that is.
 
@MikeM I think it's unintuitive unless you spell out all attribute typing. Conditional generation frequently trips me up. Also, a real issue is the absense of facilities to (recursively) indent output.
Oh, it could be my limited understanding, but format_delimited and karma::delimit(d)[gen] hardly ever Do What I Mean(TM) because they also to post-delimit
 
@sehe Yes, I needed to do the indention manually... state in the generator...
 
@MikeM That's what everybody does, but there you go: wreaks havoc on complexity
 
@sehe What do you mean by conditional generation?
 
@Xeo I know some of these words. In an unrelated topic, wanna see my conspect draft?
 
Xeo
9:49 PM
@BartekBanachewicz "Username must be between 4-20 characters (letters and digits)"
 
@MikeM stuff like "if there is an container element, print opening brace", or "if the string is "const" print "CONST" etc. Or (worse) if the double has not fractional part, print trailing `'d``...
 
@sehe ah ok, for that I have lots of eps... again not nice...
@sehe But I guess generation frameworks are less common, so I'm happy that karma does big parts for me
 
@MikeM you mean, forced semantic actions :) Yeah. I hardly ever use Spirit
@MikeM I think I'd prefer something like t4 templates
 
@sehe Yeah, fuck German!
 
is MikeM a monadic version of Mike?
 
9:52 PM
@EtiennedeMartel Große Scheisse grand merde
 
@sehe "grosse merde"
 
@BartekBanachewicz lol, at least I have state, and I hate state ;-)
 
@BartekBanachewicz It's a palindrome gone wrong
 
@sehe You avoid Spirit for generation or also qi?
 
"grand" either means "tall" or "great" depending on context. Rarely "large" or "big". And even then it would be "grande" because "merde" is feminine.
 
9:54 PM
@MikeM Mostly for generation. I love qi, but I think twice before depending on it in production. It's crazy agile, so that's what I use it for
@EtiennedeMartel tall shit!
 
Un crisse de gros tas de marde.
 
so there. ^
 
@sehe Well, to late for me, currently I depend on it. But up to now, it doesn't behave badly...
 
@EtiennedeMartel What about "fucking cow!" ?
 
Xeo
9:57 PM
@BartekBanachewicz Actually looking pretty good
 
This is a legendary response - to check IDE local history. Thank god for IDEs. — StressedEric 2 mins ago
^ and another one saved!
 
@CaptainGiraffe There's no direct translation for "fucking" in French. Except when talking about sexual intercourse, at which point the most accurate translation is the verb "fourrer".
 
@MikeM If you can be disciplined and stick to simple constructs... it's ok
 
@Xeo :smugdog:
as for 10-minute something for the people that have no idea about FP... I don't think I could put in anything more.
 

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