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10:00 PM
@sehe Well, that depends... At least I'm very happy for having lots of test cases...
 
@EtiennedeMartel I seem to recall my french teacher suggesting "Merde la Vache" as an invective some 25 odd years ago.
 
@CaptainGiraffe What.
Can't say that's valid.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Can't say I remember it correctly =) It should translate to roughly "damn cow"
 
@EtiennedeMartel Maybe "putain"
 
No it was bovine in orientation.
 
10:03 PM
@kbok Yeah, "fucking" and its derivatives are usually translated as another swear word with an equivalent level.
In Quebec, "tabarnack".
 
Putain is a swear word level 3
 
So I'm told.
 
Yes, not appropriate for 10-13 year olds.
 
Isn't it "tabernacle"? What's the difference?
 
Ell
ferrrk. Idk why, but for some reason the output of this when I use it in my programme gives 2 different answers, whereas it should be the same like here :S ideone.com/glkD3b
 
10:05 PM
I am now trying to stream a sinusoid in mp3 format through a http server
 
@kbok How it's said.
The only people who swear by saying "tabernacle" are French people.
 
@kbok a http server with gzip automatic? I'm guessing a sinusoid would compress fairly well under mp3. Any data samples on this?
@EtiennedeMartel Heh, swedes too. It is an older saying though.
 
alright, screw this.
I can debug on Windows.
 
@CaptainGiraffe What do you mean data sample? It's just sin(1/6k)
 
10:07 PM
or tomorrow.
 
@kbok Size of the file, size of the http stream.
 
@MikeM test cases are alway nice
 
I have yet to measure, but I'm not really interested in metrics until I plug the real sound source in
 
Oh, I was hoping the sine would be the real data source.
 
No, just a placeholder :)
 
10:10 PM
Why is slippery slope a bad argument?
I mean.
Granted, it does draw attention from the argument itself.
 
I just realized "tabernacle" is quite the ancient version of using G.W.Bushs "Mission accomplished" as an invective.
 
But is it not true that such things are often movements?
I mean, this is why court cases are used as precedents.
 
@Pawnguy7 anything can be a slippery slope.
Sometimes slippery slope arguments are true.
But that doesn't make them persuasive.
 
@Pawnguy7 Legal precedent and slippery slope are two exceedingly different things.
 
Are they?
 
10:12 PM
yes.
 
Care to explain?
 
simple
let's say that I gain a court judgement saying that I have the right to fuck another man.
you might argue that this is clearly MORAL DEGENERACY and it's just a slippery slope until the court grants me the right to fuck animals or children or something.
but you'd be totally wrong, because the court does not give a shit whether or not I have the right to fuck a man when deciding whether or not I have the right to fuck a child or a horse.
 
So they are kind of like the Hitler of fallacies?
They can be used with everything? :D
 
All of the "logical fallacies 101" can be nullified with any statement. It is rarely helpful to point out that a statement falls under this or that unconvincing/stigmatized category.
 
@Pawnguy7 I wouldn't say that.
slippery slopes are real and they do exist and in some circumstances, slippery slope argument is warranted.
but the reality is, it's very rare that that's true.
 
10:16 PM
I don't have any statistics or a list of uses.
 
The rare reality is what we get from the aggregated news.
 
But most that come to mind seem valid.
It is difficult.
 
Ell
okay. Quick Q
 
I feel as though... you want to rule against the argument, but not have it occur at the same time.
 
@Pawnguy7 Give a for instance
 
10:17 PM
Are you still talking about slippery slope? Because most that comes to my mind seem to be invalid
 
Or, the topic it is about, I mean. The individual case.
 
user1804599
So I decided to try Opera and my first experience with it was already terrible: its download page waits a few seconds before starting the fucking download, and clicking the download link makes it download twice.
 
@kbok Heh patriot act... heh
 
user1804599
Why are download pages always created by total idiots.
 
Opera was really better than other browser at the time
 
10:19 PM
@CaptainGiraffe Hrm... gun control, maybe.
 
Ell
God darn this bug is impossible to find!
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I feel there may be two groups of people here.
 
guys how would u prove : floor of ceiling of x is equal to ceiling of x ?
 
user1804599
It’s even more annoying than SourceFuck.
 
Now I don't think it's worth the compat issues
 
Ell
10:19 PM
^is the state of i the same at the end of each of these?
 
Those who just don't want assault weapons.
 
Ell
@Pawnguy7 wrt gun control?
 
And those who just want to get rid of everything.
@Ell with?
 
What's the slippery slope argument?
 
Ell
@Pawnguy7 are you saying you feel there are two groups of people With Regard To gun control?
 
10:20 PM
The slippery slope argument can be valid when 1) the initial step onto the slope really is a step onto a slope--i.e., even if only mildly so, it really is something that's wrong in itself, and 2) there really is a reasonable case to be made that there's a progression from that relatively minor problem to something much more serious. Most such arguments, however, fail on both counts.
 
@Pawnguy7 Well in that case there are good statistics. With regard to the future, idk.
 
@rightfold lol. FWIW - I don't know what they did with the windows version: they somehow removed all features that made it worthwhile for me. Not in the linux version, though. What the hell are they thinking
 
@Ell I don't know, personally. The main argument I see is against assault weapons, but it seems some activities think all guns are bad. Maybe they are a fringe.
 
@Pawnguy7 All guns are bad.
 
@JerryCoffin Thanks. I feel that most of the times (1) is not actually satisfied (wrt gay rights for instance)
 
10:21 PM
@kiasy ceiling of x has no fractional part, floor removes fractional part (i.e. nothing), -> no change
 
Evidently, there are indeed two groups of people.
 
The (supposed) first step onto the slope is usually little more than "I'm too narrow-minded to accept X", and the progression from there to something we'd all agree is wrong/bad/unacceptable rarely has any credibility at all.
 
Ell
@DeadMG woah now. It's the users not the guns which are bad
 
guns serve only two purposes: killing people, and killing animals; one of them is obviously bad, and the other is a pathetic pastime which would be no loss to be cut out.
 
Ell
ftr I'm against civilians having guns
 
10:22 PM
@DeadMG Is food an invalid argument?
 
@DeadMG What about shooting paper targets?
 
I'm against civilians 3d-printing puns
 
@Pawnguy7 Nobody in the US hunts for food.
 
@JerryCoffin There is always a cost/benefit argument that is not to be disregarded.
 
user1804599
Oh, how wonderful.
 
10:22 PM
@kbok What about it? That's just practice for #1 or #2 above.
 
Ell
@DeadMG a pathetic pastime? what makes you say that?
 
user1804599
Opera stops scrolling after I use two-finger swipe to go back and forward.
 
user1804599
Yup, piece of shit. Not worth using.
 
@sehe Puns should definitely be restricted to 2 dimensions.
 
@CaptainGiraffe OK, let me rephrase that.
nobody in the US would starve if they could not hunt for food with a gun.
the US economy is not based on hunter/gatherer
 
10:23 PM
Although.
 
@Ell Because it's unnecessary and the price is hideously high in terms of all the people killed by the means used.
 
Not sure "pathetic pastime" is valid either.
 
People in new zealand throw rocks at animals to hunt so I don't see why american people couldn't
 
Although good wildlife control would imply shooting the obese specimen first
 
Might as well ban video games while you are at it.
 
10:24 PM
@kbok because overweight
 
@Pawnguy7 People don't get mass murdered with video game controllers.
 
@sehe Or kiwi birds
 
@ScottW somewhere in the next... area? Although, what do zombies mutate into?
 
Ell
@DeadMG How many people are killed in hunting/target shooting accidents in comparison to some other dangerous sport? Is it significantly higher?
 
@DeadMG video game controllers != video games
 
10:24 PM
@sehe Which is solved by forcing them to use rocks. See, that works like a charm
 
@DeadMG I was arguing on the concept of past times, not other uses.
 
@CaptainGiraffe of course, and that
 
In that.
 
@ScottW "aboriginals" is the word
 
If you say people cannot do x pastime.
 
10:25 PM
@Pawnguy7 Irrelevant. You have to consider the whole picture.
 
There are many y pastimes.
 
@DeadMG The people wouldn't -- the animals, however, would. Hunting licenses are issued in carefully controlled quantities to assure herds that can remain healthy given the (estimated) available resources. When too few people hunt the animals for food, rangers generally do so to keep the herds healthy.
 
and the whole picture is that people purchase guns for hunting, and then end up using them to blow their neighbour's head off.
 
@ScottW I have no idea what they are haha
 
Hunting licenses.
Now _there's_ a useless hobby if ever I saw one.
 
10:25 PM
or get them stolen by criminals.
 
@JerryCoffin +1 without star
 
Ell
@DeadMG Not in the UK (usually)
 
@Ell That's because we don't issue guns to any nutjob who asks.
 
@DeadMG what about shooting targets for sports?
 
what about it?
 
10:26 PM
when is @R.MartinhoFernandes doing his talk?
 
Ell
@DeadMG Right. But guns are still legal when hunting for game etc.
 
most sports are pathetic and irrelevant anyway.
and "Let's build a bunch of horrible deadly weapons so that we can destroy a couple paper targets with them" doesn't sound like a logical thought to me.
 
You actually meant, "saved from the immediate pain of absent test cases"?
Gentle reminder: the delayed pain will be worse.
 
ITT everything is terrible
 
scrap all the shooting sports.
 
10:26 PM
@ScottW I got that part. There was one level, though, it seemed to see my across the gap somehow.
 
@DeadMG I love you too =)
 
@ScottW I thought I was three some squares away.
 
scrap all sprooting shorts
 
It is grid vision, isn't it?
 
@sehe They saved my ass just again. Refactoring or fixing rules is hardly possible without them... Just reasoning with that high abstraction level is bad.
 
10:28 PM
@JerryCoffin I'm not gonna argue that all uses of killing animals, ever, is bad. I accept that if you're a farmer and your livestock is getting eaten by a bunch of wolves, then a gun might well be appropriate. But that's a very far cry from mass firearm consumption.
 
Well.
 
Ell
@DeadMG are you also against cars?
 
cars are an economic necessity.
I'm certainly against human-driven cars as soon as computer-driven cars become available.
 
Ell
@DeadMG why? what about trains, public transport
 
@ScottW oh. I assumed straight line unlimited.
 
10:29 PM
@Ell Really not the same thing.
 
@DeadMG tv?
 
trains and public transport are preferable but fact is, they can't serve all the same purposes.
 
@DeadMG I think Jerry was arguing that a lot of wild animals can destroy a good flora.
 
zch
I am against cars.
 
@ScottW speaking of the gargoyles.
 
zch
10:30 PM
At least the pointless big expensive cars
 
eh
 
On the... master level? At the end of the first area, they shoot when you aren't in front of them.
 
@DeadMG Every time you open your mouth on the subject, you demonstrate your ignorance of the subject matter even more thoroughly (shooting wolves to protect livestock was actually one of the worst excuses ever).
 
Ell
I can't be arsed to argue with this any more. My point is it's the use of the technology which is bad, not the technology itsself
 
it was just a throwaway example of one single case.
 
10:30 PM
Anyway, I didn't want to debate gun control.
I am just saying, I think it is a potentially valid argument here.
As demonstrated by people such as yourself.
 
@JerryCoffin I completely agree with you on the wolf killings.
 
Is Ctrl+D a common shortcut for some of you?
 
Golem?
 
@MikeM Yes of course
 
@CaptainGiraffe It's not just that -- it's that having X*2 animals trying to live on resources that can really only support X animals will often result in a more than X animals dying before spring.
 
10:32 PM
@CaptainGiraffe What application/meaning?
 
Ah.
Also, on that last level.
Those spikes :\
That timing was tricky.
@ScottW what is the last level in an area called?
 
@JerryCoffin Exactly. Fortunately there are good people gathering good data where I live,.
 
@DeadMG what's wrong with guns? they are fun.
 
@ScottW Ok. That. The area 1 vault.
 
@JerryCoffin we should all get guns and help out nature !
 
10:33 PM
Also, it had this new kind of door.
I thought it had a button, but you just walk through it.
 
@MikeM What did you have in mind?
 
Misleading haha.
Oh.
 
user1804599
Guns are like goto.
 
That makes more sense.
I didn't think I could walk up to it because the spikes.
A bit :D
Anyway, if I was wrong on the door.
 
A slippery-slope argument is more persuasive when the person saying "doing X will eventually lead to doing Y" can point to instances where people advocating doing X also advocate doing Y, particularly if they apply the same defense to Y that they do to x. Or where Y is at least not logically precluded by X, if not the conclusion of taking X to it's extreme.
 
10:35 PM
It costs me a potion or two to reach it.
 
@CaptainGiraffe I'm planning on using it for reloading data in my application... I'm worried that I miss some common behaviour for it, like e.g. Ctrl+S (Save) has.
 
@caps Exhibit A: DeadMG.
 
@MikeM Ctrl+D is end of transmission in any terminal.
 
Though it is hard to tell if it is a fringe thing.
 
That breaks the connection.
 
10:36 PM
Though I guess you can tell if they publicly state it, or if it is an internet comment.
 
@Pawnguy7 I don't recall making any slippery-slope arguments.
 
@CaptainGiraffe Ok, thank you. That doesn't seem to interfere logically
 
@DeadMG You seemed to match up with what caps said.
 
@Pawnguy7 How so?
 
@MikeM also bookmark this
 
10:37 PM
How does caps get to chat at 25 rep?
 
@CaptainGiraffe Chat only takes, I think, 15 rep.
 
@DeadMG Same defense, you advocate getting rid of both assault weapons and all guns
 
@A.H. Right, I forget that. Thx.
 
I advocate getting rid of guns because I think they clearly cause real damage.
I've never even described a slope.
 
@Pawnguy7 That is definitely a weakness of slippery slope arguments--even if you can point to what I mentioned, it can sometimes be difficult to prove that it extends to all people advocating X, and not just some subset of them. People pushing for X can try to dismiss the slippery slope argument by saying that those also pushing for Y are just outliers.
 
10:38 PM
oh, I think I got chat priv at 1500
 
@Pawnguy7 His isn't a slippery slope argument though -- it's just a "hasn't a clue in the world of anything he's talking about" argument.
 
Hm?
No, like.
 
@JerryCoffin Sounds like most gun control arguments. :)
 
If I am advocating that we should not ban guns.
It is my slippery slope argument.
Using his statements as an example.
 
stop making decisions for society
 
10:39 PM
@DeadMG what real damage do guns clearly cause? Other things clear cause damage too, like overpopulation.
 
and I'd probably be in favour of addressing most of them too.
 
@thecoshman Enter China child limiting laws, stage right.
 
hopefully not something so extreme.
 
Do you enter like that, or just leave? I don't know theater.
 
Ell
Let's change the topic. Try and fix this cray bug which I have no idea the reason of!
 
10:40 PM
@DeadMG "hopefully," he says
 
Britain's population isn't projected to grow substantially anyway, if I recall.
 
(cue the slippery slope arguments)
 
@caps It's certainly true that only a minuscule minority (on either side) seem to study anything about the matter before forming their opinions.
 
oh oh oh, why don't we just accept that guns cause, if anything, a trivial problem. There are bigger issues to sort out, no?
 
well tbh china's idea wasn't terrible it was just poorly executed
 
10:40 PM
Please don't point out the slippery straw obtuse in the statement. It is useless. Counter with a reasonable statement.
 
@CaptainGiraffe Who are you addressing?
@A.H. No, it's terrible.
 
@A.H. that describes a lot of things
 
@Ell Sorry, can't help. Haven't had access to a Cray in years.
 
@caps what should they have done about overpopulation ?
 
@caps The guns, the slippery slope and the logical fallacy crowd.
 
10:41 PM
@DeadMG no, it's only been on a sharp increase since the turn of the last century with ever decreasing death rates, ever increase birth rates, ever improving medicine keeping people alive for longer with 'worse' conditions and allowing babies to survive from earlier then ever before.
 
@A.H. Found a solution for making it livable.
 
@Ell I don't even know what a cray is
 
@CaptainGiraffe I still don't understand your statement.
 
Ell
@A.H. It might be english slang. It has become popular over the last few months to mean crazy
"That shit is cray"
 
@thecoshman Actually, my generation has a lower life expectancy right now, because of the obesity epidemic.
 
10:42 PM
@A.H. Poor bastard, I sat on one while it was still warm. It was amazing
 
@caps what if they couldn't ?
 
@JerryCoffin has anyone?
 
@Ell "cray-cray" usually
 
@A.H. Now that is truly sad.
 
and when the baby boomers die off, our total pop is gonna get hit pretty hard.
 
10:43 PM
@thecoshman Yes.
 
where do I get one ? and do I heat it or does it come warm?
 
@DeadMG IIRC 'our'. And frankly, good riddance.
 
@A.H. A Cray, you mean? See link above.
 
@JerryCoffin sneaky...
 
@A.H. Your local museum. Just plug it in.
 
10:43 PM
@thecoshman I actually don't remember how old you are so maybe it is "our".
 
@DeadMG 88
 
@A.H. I don't know, honestly.
Emigration, probably.
That's how that problem has been solved, historically.
 
Ell
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@JerryCoffin I don't see the shopping cart or wish list !
 
@JerryCoffin You haven't exactly participated this conversation in good manners. All you've done is say that I don't know what I'm talking about. You haven't even offered your own opinion, let alone given any justification or support. How am I supposed to respond to that?
 
10:45 PM
@JerryCoffin Jerry!!! they are making me feel old :(
 
@Ell I have seen this before
 
right. Anyone good at truth tables and circuits and all that shit?
 
Ell
@A.H. I think I posted it before. But I don't understand! I must have ub somewhere
 
@Crowz circuits is a really large topic
 
@A.H. absolute beginner level but of course
 
10:46 PM
@Ell well for starters you have way too many undersocres for 5 lines
 
@Crowz yes... but it's boring as fuck probably
 
@A.H. But, it's more readable!!
;)
:p
 
Ell
@A.H. underscores? ... o.O where?
 
@A.H. Telephone number at the bottom right of every page.
 
like everywhere !
 
10:47 PM
I can barely even use microsoft word so don't expect me to be great with circuits
 
@JerryCoffin Aaaawwwesome.
 
@DeadMG Perhaps by studying a little?
 
@Crowz I don't follow the chain of thought... what has MSWord got to do with circuits?
any way, ask away @Crowz
 
@JerryCoffin I have a feeling I might need a loan
 
@thecoshman computers and stuff, you know
 
10:48 PM
@Crowz yes, we got that far...
 
@thecoshman Nothing should make you feel old--except getting up in the morning with a sore back, having to wear support socks to keep your feet from swelling, forgetting where you've left your reading glasses (which you're wearing at the time), or a few dozen other things that really are signs of getting old.
@A.H. I'm pretty sure I couldn't even get a loan that big.
 
@A.H. Only if you need a supercomputer...
 
anyway, the question is asking about having a P0,P1,P2, and P3 which I assume are implemented in a simple truth table but then he says to use "four D flip flops" to make fibonacci numbers up to 13
 
WHY would you need a supercomputer?
Not "you" generically, but you specifically.
 
@caps I dunno but we could do weird shit with graphs if we have one
 
10:51 PM
Opinons wanted: A university introductory course in c++ also introduces vim, makefiles and the gnu compiler. Superfluous or well founded?
 
@A.H. You could also do that with Excel on a netbook...
@CaptainGiraffe I wish my CS program had introduced all of that.
 
@CaptainGiraffe awesome !
 
@JerryCoffin cranky about everything?
 
Ell
@CaptainGiraffe well founded
 
@Crowz ... erm... not sure what is being asked for.
I can tell you what parts of that sentence mean, but together it makes no sense
 
10:54 PM
there is no way I can remember what a d flip flop does exactly
 
Any voices against: A university intro course on c++ not doing MSVC++?
 
@CaptainGiraffe it might be taking things from a bit too low a level... is this just a module (subject) in C++ or an entire course?
 
@CaptainGiraffe intro to mingw for windows ?
 
@thecoshman entire course
@A.H. sure, that is during the extra sessions
 
then imo, it's taking things from too old and basic a level.
 
10:56 PM
screw MSVC++ its pure evil
 
vim has NOTHING to do with programming course. It should be up to students to use what ever text editor they want.
makefiles are old and outdated and should not be used any more, the only reason to need to know about them is if you get stuck in crappy legacy shit that refuses to update.
 
@thecoshman like make a circuit that can count up fibonacci numbers
I still use makefiles ._.
 
gnu compiler... well, maybe a short lecture or two on how to get the basics out of it.
@Crowz update
 
can;t you just do that with an adder and a couple of latches ?
 
@thecoshman it has to do with discipline. And with instructing the computer to do stuff :)
 
10:58 PM
@Crowz outputting the binary numbers I take it? taking a clock pule?
 
@thecoshman I use them. Stop opining until you actually do cross platform C++ projects?
 
Please tell me if this is an awful idea or not.
 
It's an awful idea.
 
First, context:
Our codebase has two categories of classes; DB<object>s and User<object>s (objects added to the app by a user). For each User<object> there is a DB<object>, although not necessarily the other way around.
However, each DB<object> derives from a Compiler-specific class (called TObject) and each User<object> is completely parentless.
I'm updating the entire DB component, and while I'm at it, I thought I would modify the DB<object>s to have a common (intermediary) parent, and the User<object>s to also have a common parent (why this wasn't done in the first place, I have no idea)
 
@thecoshman yeah that's the idea
 
10:59 PM
@sehe cmake?
 
@DeadMG Honestly, I don't have very strong opinions. The available data doesn't really support them. About the only real opinion I have is that given the amount of other "stuff" (especially drugs) imported into the US every year, that attempting to prohibit firearms would be a futile gesture--at most it would increase prices somewhat.
 
So, my brilliant/awful idea, is to give the DB<object>Parent class and the GrandParent class shared_ptrs to each other. I would use flags in the constructors to tell if the shared_ptr being instantiated is for the DB<object>Parent or for the GrandParent.
The idea is to be able to use a container<GrandParent*> to store DB<object>s and User<objects> together. The shared_ptr in GrandParent would be used to access the DB<object>s since they are not actually children of Grandparent.
 
@sehe and? why not teach them to use a spread sheet then? why not teach them to use any other language?
 
@A.H. Learning curve. I found it hard to port to
 
@thecoshman I was listening to you until you went on your rant.
 
10:59 PM
@sehe done it, was easier without makefiles.
 
@thecoshman Good points. You may or may not have missed my joking
 
@CaptainGiraffe rant? I was giving my view
 

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