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sbi
9:00 AM
@Rapptz Well, the important question is: Why does she feel like she needs a break? (And then: Is it something I could change?, followed by Is it something I should change?)
 
@GregorMcGregor raw pointers do that too. Just very shallow/trivial
 
@GregorMcGregor Yeah but have you tried copulating with a unique ptr
 
No but neither with girls
 
I avoid tight copulation
 
@AndyProwl I C #include <stdbool.h> bool what_you_did_there = true
 
9:00 AM
@sbi The last part is what I'm wondering
 
It's a matter of good design
 
sbi
@GregorMcGregor Ah, this explains your comment. (Or is it your comment explains this?)
 
@AndyProwl Do you know people qualified to reflect on that (parents? best/good friend? ex-gf (another...))
 
@sbi We had this conversation (we being me and the ex) while she was discussing taking a break. The fundamental reason for why she needs a break is due to some behavioural issues she didn't bring up until that day (hence I had no knowledge of them to fix them) and more importantly I suppose is that she just doesn't feel like she wants a relationship any more (i.e. she doesn't wanna try and salvage it). So in a way there's nothing I could do.
 
@sbi Orthogonal
 
9:02 AM
@sbi Girls are not fundamentally different to boys, right, when it comes to having satisfactory relations with them I mean
 
@sehe Dunno. Best friends are very very cynical. They said to give up regardless.
but again their relationships are all sort of fucked up so probably not qualified
 
we're not fundamentally different to shrimps either
 
@Rapptz behavioural issues... like texting a 3:48am?
 
and I love shrimps
 
@StackedCrooked correct my dear crustaceous friend
 
9:03 AM
@sehe I sent the text at 11 PM.
 
sbi
@AndyProwl Well, from what I gathered from the transcripts here, you were the one who wanted to keep her as a backup while you fucked around with someone else, no? Well, in this case the answer boils down to do I want one of the millions of woman who wouldn't put up with this or one of the few who would?
 
'BIG PROBLEM BUG - WE INSTALLED YOUR NEW SOFTWARE AND IT WILL NOT DISPENSE ANY OIL AT ALL'.... panic testing.. panic debugging... .. .. . . ..... following a delivery failure, there was no actual oil in the tank to dispense.
 
@AndyProwl Well. I'd value that advice (even though you make it sound like "light hearted" advice. You could recheck/validate by asking again - in case they said it in a non-serious context...)
@Rapptz ok
 
sbi
@Rapptz Usually, a woman will have given clues that seem obvious to women, but very obscure to men.
 
You need more tank in your oil.
 
sbi
9:04 AM
@GregorMcGregor Most certainly.
 
@AndyProwl Cynical advice not very helpful
Source: erm
 
@sbi So, like template-related errors of the past?
 
sbi
@sehe I really wouldn't know. So far I hadn't had any relationship with a man yet.
 
@StackedCrooked erm. Remind me not to start a serious relationship with you
 
No but seriously if someone gives you cynical advice it's not really advice
 
9:05 AM
@sbi likewise for men
 
Nah, you've probably filled in the dots in a wrong way. I met someone else randomly, that girl was interested in me, cute, clever, there were things I was missing in my relationships, so I went for lunch with the other one. I realized I was tempted so I broke up with my g/f. I met the other girl a few times and realized it's not 'it' and quit with her too.
It's not like I ever stopped- thinking about my ex, but I thought that if something pushed me towards another girl, that means the relationship wasn't working
 
sbi
@sehe Not IME.
 
@sbi That's why I like being explicit about it. It's better to talk about it rather than it being something you have to figure out. I hate that shit.
 
@GregorMcGregor The "cynical" qualification was added by the recipient
@sbi Oh well:
1 min ago, by sbi
@sehe I really wouldn't know. So far I hadn't had any relationship with a man yet.
 
9:06 AM
Didn't know sbi was such a close minded homophobe!
 
Ahahah, and a grumpy ape!
 
Dammit. So many withdrawal symptoms
 
sbi
@AndyProwl No, it does not necessarily mean that.
 
@sehe The context was serious, but the advice was given by people who are unhappy in their relationship yet keep it running while occasionally or not-so-occasionally cheating on their partners
 
sbi
@GregorMcGregor Neither did I.
 
9:07 AM
@sbi That's what I'm trying to figure out. Together with answers to other questions like 'Why did I not want kids with her again?' and similar
 
sbi
@Rapptz As I said, IME women think they have been obvious, just men didn't get it.
 
Because kids suck
 
It seems I can't reason now with the brain I had before
and before I couldn't reason with the brain I have now
 
@AndyProwl Sounds like "You never know what you have until it's gone" syndrome.
 
@AndyProwl I think that's orthogonal again
 
9:08 AM
@AndyProwl Oh. That makes it meta-cynical indeed. I'd check with someone trusted. Like, you know that coach that knows you since you were 12. Or your grandma. People have a wealth of life experience if you look for it
 
@Rapptz Yeah, nice summary I guess
 
sbi
@sehe What I meant is that, IME, men are giving clues that are much easier to decipher for men. :-/
 
Oh, surely. On average, all other things being equal etc
 
Probably yes
 
Btw I think you did the right thing, in the grand scheme of things.
 
9:09 AM
It's like "similar people understand eachother more easily"
 
Breaking it off due to your uh situations.
 
sbi
@AndyProwl Well, this is what hormones do to you.
 
@sehe Grandma died, that coach died, parents too old, friends is all I have. Oh and that "other" girl would be able to give great advice but I don't want to like say "hey, pls forget you're in love with me and help me getting back to my ex"
 
collective hug with Andy and Rapptz and Cinch
 
sbi
@GregorMcGregor Yeah, you keep thinking this. And other dumb things.
 
sbi
I remain unimpressed by your thinking, though.
 
@Rapptz Yeah but I'm starting to think grand schemes suck. I made three people out of three unhappy
 
@AndyProwl Erm. One is never too old to give life advice (on the contrary). Unless by "too old" you mean "incapable"
 
@sehe I mean too different mindset
 
9:10 AM
sbi at least have the decency of not attacking people because I could do the same and that's not a very nice thing to do
 
@AndyProwl Which reaaaally equates to "I don't value their opinion on this" but that's a good right. Your call, I guess
 
@sehe Probably
 
@AndyProwl I did the "talk about it with the other girl" in the last relationship (i.e. the one before this one). It uh, probably made her very sad. At the end of the day though I ended up dating her. And uh.. couple years later here I am.
 
The homophobe thing wasn't an accusation?
Because, ya'know, I don't think he is
 
No that's a very obvious joke
Do you guys need giant sarcasm tags
 
sbi
9:12 AM
LOL.
 
HTML5 compliant please.
 
@Rapptz I don't believe in karma but it looks like such a thing. And yeah, asking the other girl is not useful I think, creates harm + you won't get honest advice cause she wants you
 
@GregorMcGregor Oh. Well. Your very obvious joke may or may not have provoked the "unkind" thing
 
sbi
"My hurtful statements are just made for fun, but yours really hurt!"
 
9:13 AM
There you go
 
@GregorMcGregor No, but you can't really jump from "I am joking" to "I'm sooooo sensitive"
 
I don't tell people they're dumb when they voice an opinion
 
That's Bartek.
 
Just back out then. Say something like "Okay, let's dial the wittiness back for a moment"
 
@GregorMcGregor Haven't thought about asking Cinch to write a tutorial on ex-girlfriends
might be a wise idea
 
sbi
9:14 AM
@GregorMcGregor Maybe other people's opinions just aren't as dumb?
 
I believe I've proven over the years I can be particularly both insensitive and sensitive and when I'm genuinely trying to help I just don't like being told off
 
@GregorMcGregor ... I didn't see anyone say that. And if you mean "I remain unimpressed..." then you need the obvious-joke-filter. It's the 1:1 mirror of the sentence before that. It's obvious jokery
 
@AndyProwl Boyfriends*
 
my $62 3lb cake isn't even pretty, very mad
 
@AndyProwl I mean, in my case it worked. I was talking to a girl who liked me about my ex (call her Alice I guess) and I realised while talking about Alice to this girl that I should probably date the girl who liked me. Said girl that liked me became my (now) ex-gf.
 
9:15 AM
@sehe The one just above. Those are not jokes, btw.
 
Weird origin story.
 
@Rapptz oh, that
 
would not recommend
 
why not
 
@GregorMcGregor Oh well. To me "you think dumb things" is a giant open door. That doesn't equate to "you're dumb" for me. It equates to this:
23 mins ago, by sehe
being human is a sign of weakness
 
9:16 AM
You ended up with someone you liked a lot
 
@GregorMcGregor (prove it btw; I think you may be right. I also think it's useless getting worked up about. Some people will not like you.)
 
I'll just revert to business as usual
 
The fact that she eventually decided to break up does not mean it was a wrong decision to forget about Alice
 
I want to revert to Saturday
 
@GregorMcGregor If it's of any consolation, I still like you :)
 
@sehe I know, but it's not because they don't like me that they have to be offensive. I too can be, and yet I refrain from it.
@sehe It is a consolation :D But put the focus on Andy and Rapptz, they need more love than I do
 
@Rapptz btw you can’t requires std::blah<stuff>() because that’s not a boolean, you have to requires std::blah<stuff>::value
 
Relationships seem like :effort:, wouldn't buy
 
@AndyProwl Yeah. I don't regret my relationship. I don't recommend it because it's p. volatile. The advice given will not make sense in the current mindset due to biases.
 
FYI, I cried over some funnel webs I have killed last Friday. I mean they are just the most poisonous spiders in the world. But I felt really bad for killing them, because they didn't hurt me, and yet I killed them.
 
9:19 AM
@Rapptz Got it. Anyway IME desperate attempts to cast the ex- away from your position are counter-productive, unless you know exactly why the decision was made and you can somewhat change the reasons behind it
 
@GregorMcGregor I'm not sure more focus helps. We're really no substitute to close friends, I fear (I like the convo though, I'm not trying to disrupt it either)
 
@CatPlusPlus Well yeah. It takes effort. Reward is fairly nice though.
 
sbi
@GregorMcGregor But it's not that do not like you. In fact I don't even know you.
 
It will make you look weak and needy and eventually that's unattractive
 
oh
wow did I accidentally troll the ape again
 
9:20 AM
@GregorMcGregor Yup. He's sensitive to that. And you in return. It goes both ways
 
@AndyProwl Yeah I'm aware.
 
sbi
@AndyProwl What a dumb question. Alice is the girl who used to live next door. Don't these people listen to the lyrics they hear?
 
Wow, lot of drama here
 
@sbi :P
 
Chill ppl
 
sbi
9:20 AM
@Rerito You must be new.
 
There's no drama
 
@sbi Not so much
 
Think of the children who have to gf in Uganda
 
@GregorMcGregor your troll skills are so advanced you don't even realize their power. It's like Hulk accidentally breaking the handle while normally opening the door
 
Ape doesn't know Cicada, wat?
 
9:21 AM
@sehe Well that explains everything (I guess)
 
A cat a day, keeps all your heartaches away!
 
@chmod666telkitty Actually, that one was pretty good
 
@AndyProwl No that's just how Hulk opens doors
 
sbi
@ElimGarak In fact, I've had beer with her. :)
 
@CatPlusPlus lol
 
sbi
9:21 AM
@GregorMcGregor How so?
 
@sbi "her"
 
@AndyProwl But then again /cc @Rapptz :
 
sbi
@Rapptz :)
 
Those are good lyrics for my type
 
sbi
@AndyProwl Depending on what kind of people you want to impress.
 
9:23 AM
@sbi I dunno, I've never seen this approach succeeding. Might be me though
 
sbi
@AndyProwl That approach?
 
@_@ ... like you tried or have seen someone else tried?
 
Wellp, attempting to crawl back to an ex you dumped will end in disaster. I can't imagine a scenario where that isn't perceived as needy.
 
My ex-gf would not think it's unattractive or anything depending on how desperate I am I guess. I haven't really reached desperation yet (and don't plan to) but considering in her mind she didn't "finalise" the relationship it gives me a false sense that I can "fix" it.
 
@sbi The approach of trying to convince someone who broke up with you to change their mind
 
9:25 AM
just do a powerpoint
 
sbi
@AndyProwl Oh. I was talking about the funny idea that appearing weak makes you unattractive.
 
@ElimGarak IME that is actually more feasible than crawling back to an ex who dumped you
@sbi Well, to that person it does
At least that's what I've been told and what I've seen IME - for what that matters
 
Turns out the diagnostics are improved when you fuck up writing an individual constraint, but constraint checking isn’t quite there yet. Weird. cc @Rapptz
 
@sehe lol at that clip tho
Never seen it before
 
@sehe This was playing in the background and I didn't realise.
This subliminal messaging.
 
sbi
9:26 AM
@AndyProwl Well. One of my exes started something with someone else. I quit, and she came back weeping. The last thing on my mind, believe me, was whether she appeared weak due to this.
 
@Rapptz You're welcome
 
@sehe Nice livestreaming of consciousness
 
So far, I've only cursed after breakups
 
@sbi That's because you're nice.
 
@sbi Oh, well ok, I was sort of implying Rapptz's context but yeah, that happens too.
 
sbi
9:28 AM
@ElimGarak So? Do you want a girlfirend who is not?
 
I doubt she'd think I'm weak.
 
That's such a turn off for me.
I'm simply not "strong" or "brave" or whatever. I'm happy to cope with life and find someone who does too.
 
We'd been dating for 3 years, why would she think it's weak that I'd want her not to leave?
 
sbi
@Rerito WRONG.
 
I don't need the job of "someone's hero". Well, not some adult's
 
9:29 AM
Lounge<relationship> ... will come back when your discussion is over I am done with the seafood steamboat/cake
 
@sehe What do you mean?
Question means: can you rephrase?
 
sbi
@AndyProwl What I said.
 
@Rapptz s/back/not to leave/?
 
@AndyProwl It's just very immature
 
@sbi Well, considering I always curse... You're right :D
 
9:30 AM
@sehe Yeah.
 
@Rerito Oh, Rerito is okay <3
 
@AndyProwl I'd hate someone who loves me for appearing brave/strong/whatever stereotype is required. (Or at least, I'd hate that aspect)
 
sbi
@Rerito I assumed the statement was wrong, because that would have been a lot breakups.
 
@Rapptz Big difference in the verdict, I guess
 
:v
You think she'd think I'd be "weak" for wanting that?
Seems weird.
 
9:31 AM
 
@sehe Ah, that. Well, all I'm saying is that it tends to be perceived as unattractive behavior. I don't think any "pretty pls take me back" is going to work on someone who dumped you after a 3 year relationship
 
@ElimGarak You're a bit late :)
 
sbi
@AndyProwl Yes, it tends to be. But by whom? And why would you even be interested in such women??
 
@sbi The last question is not relevant to my point
By whom... IME majority of women
 
Well. Yeah. Attractive behaviour. Mmm. I think that shouldn't count for a lot, as you know eachother so well/long. "raw attraction" mostly counts when you try to /attract attention/ of people you didn't yet have that relationship with, IMO
 
sbi
9:33 AM
@AndyProwl The we must totally misunderstand each other.
 
@sbi That's always possible
 
yesterday, by Rerito
not dead
 
@AndyProwl Yeah. I've always felt the majority of women are not for me. And I don't mind one bit
 
@sehe Same :(
 
sbi
@sehe "Somewhere along the edges of the bell curve, there will be someone for me." :)
 
9:34 AM
I mean, polygamy only goes so far anyways :)
 
I think attractive might be the wrong word choice.
 
@AndyProwl I'm confused, was she her who dumped you in the end?
 
@sehe :) But that doesn't matter if it's one of those you're trying to get back to. Whether you should want to get back to her is the question I'm not tackling
 
@Rapptz Yes what does gravity have anything to do with this, you're not dating Bartek's mom.
 
@GregorMcGregor 4/10 M☉
 
sbi
9:35 AM
@AndyProwl Maybe, but wouldn't that be the question you ought to deal with first and foremost?
 
@sehe ☑ obligatory joke
 
@Rerito No, I did. We're currently discussing Rapptz's situation, in which she decided. Actually the end result is the same - we'd like to go back - but the context is quite different
 
@AndyProwl you used the general (an ex) when you meant the specific (your ex)
 
Oh well, I'm lost
 
@GregorMcGregor it's ok, I smiled wider than usual
 
9:36 AM
@AlexM. did you blow some air through your nostrils
 
a little bit I think
 
@sbi Yes, and in fact it's the one I'm dealing with (see transcript). I was just commenting on Rapptz's attempt to get her back
 
@AlexM. you messed up the word order
 
I have not actually attempted to get her back.
 
a little think bit I
 
9:36 AM
My ultimate motive at the moment is communication.
 
@LucDanton Honestly I don't think so
 
So that she doesn't forget about my existence, I guess.
 
Also I wasn't discussing my ex there
 
sbi
@AndyProwl Well, so I repeat: If wanting to get back together with someone would make you unattractive to that someone, maybe that someone isn't someone to be wanting to get back together with.
 
@sbi Oh totally agreed there
 
9:37 AM
@AndyProwl wha? the conversation is pointless then
 
@sbi I'm not sure I agree
but it's a separate issue
 
@sbi Yes but love is complicated and I think it's not as sharp as that tbh
 
sbi
@AndyProwl Yeah, I noticed. Shrug.
 
@LucDanton The conversation makes sense to me, so maybe I haven't understood your remark
 
inb4 dumb opinion
 
9:38 AM
And grasping to whatever branch you can to pursue little hopes can be disappointing at best if not very hurtful
 
@AndyProwl That's... Interesting. If I were your "trusted friend" I'd give you a stern look and tell you to think about it. But I'm not, so you decide
 
sbi
@GregorMcGregor Yes, if you are attracted, then you do not think so hard about this. But when you're discussing it here, maybe you should be able to? (Plural you, I add, lest you again find yourself dissed by me.)
 
@sehe What makes you think you're not? Trusted, I mean ;) ("friend" is strong word for people who haven't even seen each other, don't take it personally)
 
Hi @Ell
 
Ell
Hi @sehe :)
 
9:39 AM
@AndyProwl Your definition of friend is strange, bub.
 
@AndyProwl Odds, and my own judgement of what makes a trusted friend. That's subjective (but I appreciate the kind thought)
 
@sbi Note that I started with "yes", ie, I don't inherently disagree
 
@Rapptz Maybe. It changed with time
 
sbi
@GregorMcGregor It starts with "yes but", which isn't necessarily seen as a form of agreement. :)
 
So if you met someone once they are considered your friend?
 
9:41 AM
lookofdisapproval.jpeg
 
@Rapptz No
 
I meant after talking to them for a long time online.
 
Heh, internet friends can very well be friends without ever meeting IME
 
You need to share things IRL
 
I find your definition of 'friend' to be very weird.
 
9:41 AM
I realized
 
sbi
@Rapptz That seemed to be the Merkin way when I was there in the 90s.
@AndyProwl Partners?
 
As in, I have no idea what you consider to be a 'friend' . Surely there are requirements but why do those requirements become invalidated if they occur online?
 
@sbi I'm all for unique pointers to girls, as someone wrote above
 
@Rapptz requires Meet
 
sbi
You can meet people online.
 
9:43 AM
@sbi 90's america seems like a cool place to be
 
Ell
I'm not sure what the requirements for friend are
 
sbi
@Mr.kbok You must be quite young.
@Ell In C++?
 
Ell
In real life
 
@GregorMcGregor love != any kind of predilection. I consider love a choice and commitment first and foremost. So, if all the fuzzy rest (lust, attraction, diversion etc.) distracts then I'd have an uneasy feeling about the "love".
I do think it is that sharp in essence. We maybe too used to conflating love with all the externalities
 
sbi
@AndyProwl And how many unique pointers do you think you could have?
 
9:44 AM
@sehe Then you mean purely the abstract part and then I agree
 
@Mr.kbok Especially Crenshaw, LA
 
@sbi From your POV I guess I am, why?
 
@AndyProwl You'ld need weak_ptrs as well to check other girls out :p
 
@sbi I'm all for one (potentially changing the pointee), but I'm growing the uncomfortable suspicion that doesn't work either. Not that I've tried, just rational thinking
 
@GregorMcGregor I do. It really helps my thinking. So, again, maybe it's a sign of "weakness" :)
 
9:46 AM
@ElimGarak why?
 
@Rerito haha, that doesn't help, cause they'd be either shared or dead
 
I may just be so impopular, I have to focus on "Love", not "love"
 
note:   constraints not satisfied
note:   '<expression error>' evaluated to false
improved diagnostics™
 
sbi
@Mr.kbok Why the hell would <something> in the 90s be cool, if not because you haven't been around back then?
 
@AndyProwl on point! The fallacy being that a girl can own herself. In fact, I believe all of them do
 
9:47 AM
The 1992 Los Angeles riots, also known as the Rodney King riots, the South Central riots, the 1992 Los Angeles civil disturbance, 1992 Los Angeles civil unrest, and the Los Angeles uprising, were a series of riots, lootings, arsons, and civil disturbance that occurred in Los Angeles County, California, in 1992, following the acquittal of police officers on trial regarding the videotaped and widely published arrest of Rodney King. They were the largest riots seen in the United States since the Detroit Riot of 1967, the largest in Los Angeles since the Watts Riot of 1965, and the worst in terms of...
 
@sehe In this century it's a rare quality
 
@AndyProwl Well, you need the shared ones for one night stands obviously...
 
pretty sure 90's US is 2pac and some other stuff
 
fucking shitty internal sites
 
@AlexM. NWA (Dr. Dre, Ice Cube, Eazy-E and others) as well
 
9:48 AM
@sbi TV.
 
@Rapptz I don't have a clear-cut definition and can't really explain why, but for me true friendship requires more than chatting from time to time on some public forum
 
sbi
@Mr.kbok That's what I meant: 2nd-hand experiences.
 
@sbi Of course :)
But OTOH I could be older but never had the occasion to get there.
 
For instance, I'm down, I call you seeking for advice, we talk. It's not like that can't happen with people online, but it's rarely "not odd" unless you've met someone IRL
 
All in your head bub.
 
9:50 AM
@Cinch please write a tutorial on friendship
@Rapptz Could be
 
@AndyProwl inb4 ponies
 
It is. There are people I've talked to for many years and if I want to actually verbally talk to them I can easily give them a call despite being miles away. I don't have to be close to them physically to hear someone's voice.
 
And you've never met those people?
 
Hell even this chat room used to do mumble chats. Maybe they still do.
@AndyProwl No.
But it doesn't make them any less of a friend.
 
@Rapptz Yup. Quite a lot since the "new wave" of mumblers
 
9:52 AM
I dunno. Might be me then
 
sbi
@AndyProwl From an evolutionary behavioral POV, monogamy is a society thing. (There have been societies that were/are polygamous.) OTOH, individuals of all monogamous species cheat on their partner when it helps them spread their genes without compromising the upbringing of their already existing genes. We are no different from that. (For example, there's a correlation between penis size and promiscuity in the great apes, and this makes us quite promiscuous, if not as much as chimps.)
So your evolutionary baggage will make you want to live in a closed relationship (so she can pay full attention at your genes growing up), while at the same time it makes you want to fuck around with other women. There's nothing special about it with humans – except for the fact that we do not have sex only for procreation, and we can reflect on that. So we should know it's evolutionary baggage, rather than genuine need.
 
@sbi Yeah, but what does being aware of that change?
 
sbi
@AndyProwl You have no idea at all. What do you think how many people from this room have, over the years, called upon privately me to listen to their problems, despite the fact that most of them had never met me?
 
@sbi This is a good example of how you should not say things unless you plan to provoke reaction :)
Better attempt would be: "hey, that's not true, lots of people here called me for advice despite not ever seeing me"
 
It's sbi
 
9:57 AM
It's many people
Just saying
 
sbi
@AndyProwl With you? Obviously very little. :) The question is what should it change. From that POV, the ability to reflect on morale and an earth-sized population did change our evolutionary baggage regarding violence.
@AndyProwl Ha! You think this is bad? You should have seen my statement before I cut'n'pasted it to an editor, went to answer a few other statements, and then went back to it to tone it down!
 
@sbi What does the fact of knowing it's an evolutionary thing change? Knowing where my desires or instincts come from does not help me decide whether I should set them apart or follow them
 
sbi
Yes, I am that way. I know that.
 
@AndyProwl Some people like to rationalize things, it may work for them, it may not for you
 
@sbi Yeah, no doubt that would be even worse
 
9:59 AM
Does the fact that you are a big bag of meat on a rock lost in space help you cope with your feelings
 

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